Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

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Rightlyguided
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:13 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#61

Unread post by Rightlyguided » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:29 am

Sabar wrote:
Mr Wronglyguided, please don’t be so deceitful, in the last 50 years have you EVER heard even once out of the countless times Burhanuddin Aqa took misaaq hear him say ‘mansoos'? did you ever see him or hear him say I have added mansoos? Is this how you show respect to Burhanuddin Aqa!! by saying he did things which he never done, Just like how dr moiz ‘Translated’ words which were never said. Did you not see Aliasger and Qasim bs signalling desperately for the shawl, did you not see the script handed to Burhanuddin Aqa, did you not see MS turning constantly to dr moiz for directions on what to do, and you say it wasn’t a drama. In your opening sentence you have already said two major lies, I wonder where you have learnt this from.

Im glad you mentioned even with your limited knowledge you understand in misaaq you accept the Rutbas, you forgot to mention WITH the actual person to whom the Rutba was given to by ilham of imam (your forgetfulness is forgiven). Now if you understand this, what of the person who doesn’t accept the person with rutba,…… I’m concluding they posses no knowledge, but doesn’t the whole convoluted, illogical zahir batin theory created by MS and company do just that, it renders the acceptance of person with rutba as illogical and null.
Question is, do you believe in Zahir Batin? if you do, then even your limited knowledge and understand is wrong, if you don’t then your moulas theory is wrong. Now thats what I call a big hole.

Your last paragraph makes no sense, I don’t remember reading anywhere that it was said mukasir saheb was conspiring against them, in fact he was defending mazoon and saying zahir batin was rubbish. Must be another lie of yours.

HIKMAT another word to add to my list of MS justifications and propaganda, which basically means sorry I have no answer, so just accept it.

The word Mansoos was added by Moula (RA) after the Nass e Jali, not for 50 years because Mansoos were not announced till that time.
Be better informed and dont get your information from fake websites.

The person who was given the Rutba should have done justice to it and direct mumineen towards the Dai. That is what we are taught everything should point towards the dai. Rather than doing that, he laid a false claim and insulted burhanuddin Moula (RA) by saying moula wasnt capable in his last years . When he claimed he was automatically removed from the post

The Zahir Batin issue, I dont believe that.
Just because I have not been taught in any bayaan sabaq or majlis about that. My source is that only.

Your sources seem to be websites which you blindly believe to be true without having second thoughts.

WHen KQ says private nass was done on him without witness , you take it to be truth.

But when there are live witnesses and document with Moulas sign you say its forged. Wow

KQ accuses MOula (RA) The Dai ul Mutlaq of losing control of his Dawat in the last three years.
You follow suite without thinking about what our faith teaches us (that DAi is the captain of the ship and will never let it go astray)

About Mukasir Saheb, I was highlighting the fact which the Qutbis twist about Moula (RA) keeping his name in misaaq, which they consider a sign of righteousnous.
My point was if thats the case (having name in misaaq = righteousnous) then Moula (RA) dint remove the name of Mukasir saheb if he was complicit with the shehzadas in "Hijacking" the dawat. ??

About Hikmat ,
It is and has been a part of history.
similar to how Rasulullah (SAW) kept 1,2 and 3 beside him
similar to how Imam Adid had made Saladin his VAzeer, who later betrayed the Dawat and that led to downfall of Fatimi empire.
similar to how Ali ibn ibrahim was removed from post of Mazoon and re instated and then removed.
similar to thousand of instances which were so because of the Situation and for the Welfare and protection of Deen during the history of DAWAT.
KQ said Nass was done on him in private without Nass (which has never happened in dawat) that is considered by Qutbis as Hikmat. without questions?
The fact that KQ didnot attend the Janaza when he could have easily done without any issues that Qutbi consider to be Hikmat? (never happened in history that the mansoos dint lead the janaza namaz of Naas)
The fact that KQ didnot speak up anything when according to him DAWAT was hijacked and thousands of Mumineen were misguided, is considered by him as Hikmat.
For this the qutbis say blood would have been spilled, but wait dint Qutbuddin SHaheed moula (RA) sacrifice his life for the cause of dawat in that extreme case.??
WHat about mr KQ?
With your point of view, You tell me that I accuse Moula (RA) of misguiding dawat by keeping KQ name in misaaq. But you fail to mention KQ of misguiding the dawat which were nurtured by Moula (RA) by not acting when he had to for the situations you claim to have been present at that time.

When KQ misuses the notion of wisdom in acts by Moula (RA) and himself it is ok but when we use it not OK.

You believe these blindfoldly without questioning.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#62

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:18 am

Rightlyguided wrote: The word Mansoos was added by Moula (RA) after the Nass e Jali, not for 50 years because Mansoos were not announced till that time.
Be better informed and dont get your information from fake websites.
...
About Hikmat ,
It is and has been a part of history.
similar to how Rasulullah (SAW) kept 1,2 and 3 beside him
similar to how Imam Adid had made Saladin his VAzeer, who later betrayed the Dawat and that led to downfall of Fatimi empire.
similar to how Ali ibn ibrahim was removed from post of Mazoon and re instated and then removed.
...
OK your post has proved you are just a stupid guy who don't kow nothing about dawat.
You are not even a bohra.


I'm wasting my time.

For your imformation, "Imam Adid" was not our Imam, it's the hafizi sect who didn't believe Imam Tayyib AS after Imam Amir AS. They follow Hafiz, nephew of Imam Amir AS as Imam and Caliph.

Same manner, Ali ibn ibrahim had nerver hold Mazoon position according to our history. It's the Alavi version.

Just because I have not been taught in any bayaan sabaq or majlis about that. My source is that only.
Your sources seem to be websites which you blindly believe to be true without having second thoughts
ROFL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#63

Unread post by Adam » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:25 am

Sceptical wrote:Rightlyguided, waiting your answer.
Why "mansoos" was added since nass drama if Missaq is just for Dai-Mutlaq?


The Mansoos is the Dai Mahsoor, and the Dai is the Dai Mutlaq. The Dai and Mansoos are considered one.
That's why the the 3 Rutbas in the Misaq remained the same. There were never "4" Rutbas as the Qutbis claim.

Same manner, Ali ibn ibrahim had nerver hold Mazoon position according to our history. It's the Alavi version.

Wrong. Ai Bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin already confirmed this. It's his version not the "Alavi version".


For your imformation, "Imam Adid" was not our Imam,

Correct.
"Rightlyguided" is incorrect on this.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#64

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:23 pm

Adam wrote: Wrong. Ai Bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin already confirmed this. It's his version not the "Alavi version".
where? any reference?

IF Ali bin Ibrahim hold Mazoon position, as you said "he was removed from post of Mazoon".
SMB(ra) never removed SKQ from Mazoon rutba.
Last edited by Sceptical on Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#65

Unread post by seeker110 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:35 pm

What is the price of tea in China, today?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#66

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:51 pm

Adam wrote:
Wrong. Ai Bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin already confirmed this. It's his version not the "Alavi version".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brother Adam is confused or confusing us.
the Mazoon was Syedi Ali Mohammed bin firoz and not Ali Bin Ibrahim (grandson of the 28th Dai) . To my knowledge Ali bin Ibrahim was the Librarian or the keeper of the keys to the room that had the Aala kitabs of Dawat which were protected, this room also had the the Dai's seal, which Ali bin Ibrahim used maliciously to draft a nass letter with dai's seal on it.

below is the fact from Zaereen.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28. Syedna Sheikh Aadam Safiuddin

Dai period: 1021–1030 AH/ 1612–1622 AD
Place of dai office: Ahemdabad,India
Death: 7 Rajab 1030 AH
Mazoon: Syedi Alimohammad bin Firoz
Last edited by Kaka Akela on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#67

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:04 pm

Adam, read Alavi version :
http://www.alavibohra.org/haqqaaniyat%2 ... ss.htm#two
Even Alavi do not attribute such words to STS(RA)

Reporter
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#68

Unread post by Reporter » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:16 am

Proposed Statement of Decision

The Summary and Key Part: An observation
The Court has also considered the potential merits of an appeal by Petitioner. The sole issue that drives the immediate concerns by Petitioner is the Court’s determination to exercise its temporary emergency jurisdiction under section 3424 and ordering the change in the custody of the children. This narrow issue is one that should be addressed quickly and easily through the Court of Appeal. Accordingly, the Court grants Petitioner a 20-day stay of the enforcement of the Court’s orders in order to seek review in the Court of Appeal. In other words, the children shall be returned to the custody of Respondent at 5:00 p.m. on the twentieth day from the date the Court signs the orders contemplated in Section 2 above, absent any further stay or other order issued by the Court of Appeal. The Court had tentatively granted the request of Respondent for the children to remain with him during the period of the stay, with appropriate orders in place to preclude travel outside of the State of California without court order. However, given that the Court is granting a stay of the orders it intended to make, the immediate change in custody would be contrary to the notion of a stay of the enforcement of those orders. However, the Court will grant Respondent visitation with the children from the date of execution of the Court’s orders until the tenth day, at 5:00 p.m., from the date of execution of the Court’s orders. Respondent shall surrender his passport to his counsel during the period of visitation. Respondent shall prepare an order for signature by the Court. Minor’s counsel shall be relieved upon entry of the order.
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The full statement of the court:
5 Most Recent Minute Orders
Date
Action
2/6/2015
RULING. PROPOSED STATEMENT OF DECISION WITH RESPECT TO PETITIONER’S REQUEST FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PREVENTION ACT RESTRAINING ORDER AND WITH RESPECT TO RESPONDENT’S REQUEST FOR ORDERS REGARDING ASSERTION OF TEMPORARY EMERGENCY JURISDICTION BY THE COURT APPEARANCE TIME: 8:00 AM
COURTROOM: B
BAILIFF: NONE
REPORTER: NONE
COURT CLERK: LINDAK
HEARING JUDGE: STEPHEN D SCHUETT

The Court issues this Proposed Statement of Decision consistent with the provisions of Code of Civil Procedure section 632. Any party may, within 15 days after this Proposed Statement of Decision is served, serve and file objections this Proposed Statement of Decision.

The parties are the parents of four minor children:

On January 30, 2014, Petitioner filed her request for a temporary restraining order pursuant to the Domestic Violence Prevention Act (“DVPA”; Family Code section 6200 et seq.) and for custody and visitation orders related to the minor children. On January 30, 2014, the Court issued temporary orders on an ex parte basis and included personal conduct orders and a stay away order that basically restrained Respondent from contacting Petitioner or the minor children. An order was also made that Petitioner would have sole legal and sole physical custody of the minor children and Respondent would have no visitation.

Respondent filed his Response to the request for a DVPA restraining order on May 2, 2014. On May 7, 2014, Respondent filed his request for an order requesting, inter alia, that the Court exercise temporary emergency jurisdiction pursuant to Section 3424 and make orders regarding custody and visitation. On August 27, September 23, November 14, 18 and 25, and December 3, 2014, the Court conducted a hearing on the merits of the Petitioner’s request for a DVPA restraining order and on Respondent’s request for the Court to exercise its temporary emergency jurisdiction and return custody of the minor children to him.

On January 21, 2015, the Court issued its Tentative Statement of Decision. On February 2, 2015, the Court held a hearing on Petitioner’s request for a stay of the effectiveness of the Court’s orders pending resolution of any appeal of the Court’s decision. After consideration of the evidence presented and the arguments made, the Court makes the following decisions.

1. Request for DVPA Restraining Order. The purposes of the DVPA are to prevent a recurrence of domestic violence and to provide for the separation of the persons involved. (§§6220, 6300.) A restraining order may be issued if the information provided shows, to the satisfaction of the court, reasonable proof of a past act or acts of abuse. (§6300.) In pertinent part, the DVPA defines domestic violence as “abuse” perpetrated against a spouse. (§6211(a).) Among other things, “abuse” means placing a person in reasonable apprehension of imminent serious bodily injury to that person or to another or engaging in behavior that could be enjoined pursuant to Section 6320. (§6203.) Behaviors included in Section 6320 include attacking, threatening, harassing, destroying personal property, contacting by mail or otherwise, or disturbing the peace of the other party. (§6320(a).) The decision whether to impose a domestic violence restraining order rests in the discretion of the trial court after consideration of the particular circumstances of each case. In re Marriage of Nadkarni (2009) 173 Cal.App.4th 1483, 1495. In the present case, the parties had resided in Mumbai, India prior to Petitioner leaving India on January 17, 2014 and coming to Bakersfield, California where her brother lives. The incidents that Petitioner relies on to support her request for a restraining order all occurred while the parties resided in India.

2. To understand the dynamics of this case, the events of January 17, 2014 and those leading up to that date are important. The parties are members of the Dawoodi Bohra faith, a sect of the Muslim religion. The spiritual leader of the Dawoodi Bohra is known as the Syedna. On January 17, 2014, the 52nd Syedna passed away. Because of their family relationships with the Syedna, Petitioner and Respondent are considered part of the royal family leading their sect.5 Upon his death, there was a dispute over who should be the rightful successor to the Syedna. Petitioner believes it should be her father. Respondent believes it should be his uncle. Two years prior to his death, the 52nd Syedna had appointed Respondent’s uncle as the successor Syedna. Following the designation of Respondent’s uncle as the successor, he and Petitioner did not have any discussion about who each thought should be the rightful successor. At the time of the 52nd Syedna’s death, Respondent and his cousin, Taha Saifuddin (the Respondent in a companion DVPA case brought by his wife, the sister of the Petitioner in this case), were on a religious trip to Sri Lanka. Upon learning of the Syedna’s death, they immediately returned home. Unbeknownst to them, Petitioner and her sister had both left India for the United States with their respective children. On January 20, 2014, shortly after their arrival in California, Petitioner helped put together a video that was posted on You Tube showing her son, and his cousin, pronouncing their maternal grandfather as the rightful Syedna.

3. On January 30, 2014, Petitioner filed her request for a temporary DVPA order. Ex parte orders were granted providing for personal conduct and stay away orders and no visitation for Respondent with the minor children. The declaration in support of the DVPA restraining order is generally framed in general conclusions regarding the basis for the claim of domestic violence, contending Respondent is “mentally and emotionally abusive” or that Respondent subjected Petitioner and the children to “psychological and mental torture.” Based on the testimony presented at the hearing, Petitioner’s reasons for requesting a DVPA order consist generally of the following:

a. She and Respondent had loud arguments during their marriage. At times, Respondent was shouting loud enough to be heard by persons on the street below the parties’ fifth floor residence where the argument occurred. Petitioner conceded that she and Respondent had many arguments during the marriage and there were occasions when she yelled at the Respondent.
b. Respondent forced Petitioner to choose between him and her mother, forcing Petitioner to have to see her mother secretly. Respondent also was upset if Petitioner was in contact with her sister so that she had to communicate secretly with her and use code words if Respondent was present.
c. Respondent was prejudiced against Petitioner’s father and would say derogatory things about him that Petitioner found hurtful.
d. Respondent would come from the mosque late at night and turn the lights on to berate her about things that had not been done for the household.
e. Respondent, during an argument with Petitioner, slammed a bathroom door when Petitioner was standing in the doorway. Based on the testimony, it appears that the Petitioner followed Respondent to the bathroom when he went there during the argument, and she was in the doorway. Respondent slammed the door shut when she was in the doorway with her hand on the door jamb. She pulled her hand away to avoid having her fingers caught in the closing door. The Court does not believe that Respondent was intending to strike or cause any injury to the Petitioner by his action. Rather, he was simply slamming the door in spite of Petitioner being in the doorway. Petitioner also conceded that she, on occasion, slammed doors.
f. Approximately five years ago, Respondent bit her cheek. On cross examination, Respondent’s deposition testimony was admitted which indicated that Respondent had a very vague recollection of the incident and could not remember many of the details.
g. Respondent hit a hotel room wall and injured his hand when he and the Petitioner were having an argument. This occurred approximately five years ago.
h. Respondent testified to several incidents where she believed Respondent was making unreasonable demands on her. For example, on one occasion in 2013, he told her to cook chick peas for dinner. She was unable to do so because they were unavailable. As a result, Respondent became angry. In response to questions about how these events made her feel, Petitioner stated that she variously felt humiliated, like a slave, belittled, suffocated or hurt. Respondent, during his testimony, did not deny any of the events occurring. Petitioner did not allege that Respondent had struck or physically abused the children. In her testimony, she did state that on one occasion the Respondent held Child tightly and would not let him go to Petitioner. On another occasion, respondent became angry when the parties’ daughter was singing when the family was going to the mosque. Respondent was upset that she was not focusing on memorizing the Quran.

In determining whether these incidents support the issuance of a restraining order, the Court has considered the stated purpose of a restraining order to prevent the recurrence of domestic violence. The Court has also considered the nature and seriousness of the acts that Respondent concedes have occurred and whether it warrants the issuance of a DVPA restraining order. The conduct described does reflect an unhappy marriage where the parties appear to have a fundamental disagreement over their respective roles in the marriage and many of their disagreements lead to loud arguments. Petitioner clearly feels she is not treated as an equal in the marriage and Respondent becomes angry when he is unhappy with how things are done at the home. But an argumentative, dysfunctional marriage does not necessarily equate to a basis for the issuance of a restraining order. The Court has also considered the allegations of physical violence. Here, Respondent punched a wall during an argument approximately five years ago. Petitioner also alleged Respondent bit her on the cheek approximately five years ago, although could not remember any significant details of the incident. Given the Court’s view that the arguments that occurred between the parties is insufficient to warrant issuance of a restraining order, these two incidents do not add anything to Petitioner’s claim for a restraining order.

While a single incident of abuse can lead to the issuance of a restraining order, the Court finds the wall-punching incident to be remote in time and a singular occurrence that does not support the issuance of a DVPA restraining order. The Court does not find the testimony of Petitioner regarding the cheek biting incident to be credible and it is lacking any meaningful detail in order to allow the Court to evaluate the nature of the action. Moreover, the Court believes the Petitioner left Respondent not because of any domestic violence that had occurred, but solely because of her strongly held religious belief regarding the proper successor to the Syedna. Petitioner admitted as much during her direct examination. In deposition testimony admitted at the hearing, Petitioner indicated the she indicated she left India because “I want my kids to be on Haq with me.” Under cross examination, Petitioner stated that it was her belief that unless her children believed in and supported her father, they will not be able to go to heaven. Given the Court’s view of the reason Petitioner left India with the children, the Court does view with skepticism the Petitioner’s testimony concerning the arguments that occurred between the parties and the relative role each had in those arguments.

4. In response to the question concerning her primary reason for leaving India on January 17, 2014, she indicated because “Syedna passed away” and she was afraid her children would be taken from her. In later testimony she explained that she was afraid Respondent would throw her out of the house if she didn’t pay allegiance to his uncle, whom he considers the leader of their community. This was the “harm” she feared from the Respondent when she left India. Additionally, in response to questions asked by the Court, Petitioner indicated that the threats she received prior to leaving India had not come from Respondent nor was there any evidence they were made on behalf of the Respondent.

5. The Court has also considered the parties meeting at a park and at a Walmart subsequent to the issuance of the temporary restraining order. The meeting at the Walmart lasted for approximately two hours and involved the parties hugging and kissing. This conduct undercuts any testimony by Petitioner that she feared Respondent. This evidence, coupled with the overwhelming evidence of the actual reason for Petitioner leaving India with the children, further indicates a restraining order is not warranted. Therefore, Court does not believe a restraining order is warranted by the conduct described and denies the request for a DVPA restraining order.

6. Exercise of Emergency Jurisdiction Pursuant to Family Code section 3424. Prior to January 17, 2014, the parties and the minor children had been living in India. No custody orders have been made prior to the Court making the ex parte orders on January 30, 2014. Section 3421, part of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act (“UCCJEA”) adopted by California, limits this Court’s original jurisdiction to make an initial “child custody determination” unless certain conditions are met.

The first consideration is whether California is the children’s “home state.” Section 3402(g) defines “home state,” as is relevant here, to be the “state in which a child lived with a parent or a person acting as a parent for at least six consecutive months immediately before the commencement of a child custody proceeding.” Section 3405 requires this Court to consider a foreign country as if it were a state of the United States for purposes of applying the UCCJEA. Therefore, the Court has treated India as if it were a state of the United States and determined India is the “home state” of the minor children for purposes of determining its jurisdiction to make an initial child custody determination.

Having determined India, and not California, is the home state for the minor children, the Court’s potential for jurisdiction is limited to exercising temporary emergency jurisdiction pursuant to Section 3424. Subsection (a) of Section 3424 provides: “A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is subjected to, or threatened with, mistreatment or abuse.”

The law strongly discourages a parent’s exercise of self-help remedies in disputes over children. Conflicts between parents are to be remedied by resort to the courts. Moffat v. Moffat (1980) 27 Cal.3d 645, 652; In re Marriage of Comer (1996) 14 Cal.4th 504, 530. In In re Marriage of Fernandez-Abin (2011) 191 Cal.App.4th 1015, 1043, the court discussed the exercise of UCCJEA emergency jurisdiction in the context of a DVPA order issued by the trial court. The court of appeal found that the trial court had jurisdiction under section 3424(a) where one parent had abducted the couple’s children and the husband had engaged in domestic violence: [W]e are not persuaded that Judge Schall was precluded under the facts presented from revisiting the issue of emergency jurisdiction in April 2009, after the California court found that husband engaged in domestic violence against wife that was witnessed by the children and found that husband took the children from wife without an order from any court and prevented wife from seeing them for more than three months. [Footnote omitted.]

In this case, Petitioner, unhappy with the selection of Respondent’s uncle (as opposed to her father) as the next Syedna, has taken the children from their home in India and brought them to the United States without the benefit of a court order or any notice to Respondent until after their arrival in California. She did this when Respondent was traveling outside the country. Respondent was unable to have any contact with the children for several months. Once in the United States, Petitioner posted a video of her son and her nephew reading a script prepared by her and her sister proclaiming their belief that Petitioner’s father and not Respondent’s uncle is the rightful Syedna, placing these children in the middle of the parent’s religious conflict. The Court finds these facts sufficient to exercise emergency jurisdiction with respect to custody and visitation. Accordingly, the Court finds that the facts described necessitate the return of the children to the custody of the Respondent forthwith, subject to the stay granted below. The Court awards joint legal custody to both parents, with sole physical custody to Respondent. Petitioner shall have visitation with the minor children in India upon 48 hours’ notice to Respondent. Visitation shall occur in the city of residence of the minor children and may be up to one week in length each thirty days. Petitioner shall have reasonable telephone or other electronic contact with the minor children and the children shall have unlimited, unmonitored telephone or other electronic contact with the Petitioner.

The Court notes that the parties’ Child--- has been under a doctor’s care at …. The Court’s orders regarding return of the children to Respondent’s custody will require any travel by Child to be consistent with any of her doctor’s recommendations. Section 3424(b) provides that in the event there is no previous child custody order to be enforced under the UCCJEA and a child custody proceeding has not been commenced in a court of a state having original jurisdiction, this Court’s child custody determination shall remain in effect until an order is obtained from a court of a state having jurisdiction under the relevant statutes. No evidence was presented that there is such an order. Consequently, the Court’s order will remain in effect until a court of a state having jurisdiction under sections 3421 to 3423, inclusive, makes orders regarding the minor children.

Request for Stay pursuant to Code of Civil Procedure section 917.7 and 918. Code of Civil Procedure section 917.7 states in relevant part: The perfecting of an appeal shall not stay proceedings as to those provisions of a judgment or order which award, change, or otherwise affect the custody, including the right of visitation, of a minor child in any civil action, in an action filed under the Juvenile Court Law, or in a special proceeding, or the provisions of a judgment or order for the temporary exclusion of a party from a dwelling, as provided in the Family Code. However, the trial court may in its discretion stay execution of these provisions pending review on appeal or for any other period or periods that it may deem appropriate. Code of Civil Procedure section 918 also permits the Court to stay the enforcement of any order or judgment. This section applies whether or not an appeal will be taken from the judgment or order and whether or not a notice of appeal has been filed. Petitioner argues that the change of custody as ordered by the Court will essentially deprive her of the children regardless of the outcome of any appellate remedy she may pursue. The children’s home state is India and India is not a signatory to the Hague Convention with respect to the enforcement of child custody and visitation orders. Petitioner argues that the return of the children to their father in India will deprive the Court of any jurisdiction to make orders in the event she prevails on appeal. The Court has balanced the possibility of Petitioner not having the ability to enforce orders from a California court with the Petitioner’s removal of the children from India without notice to Respondent or the benefit of a court order. The Court has also considered the potential merits of an appeal by Petitioner. The sole issue that drives the immediate concerns by Petitioner is the Court’s determination to exercise its temporary emergency jurisdiction under section 3424 and ordering the change in the custody of the children. This narrow issue is one that should be addressed quickly and easily through the Court of Appeal. Accordingly, the Court grants Petitioner a 20-day stay of the enforcement of the Court’s orders in order to seek review in the Court of Appeal. In other words, the children shall be returned to the custody of Respondent at 5:00 p.m. on the twentieth day from the date the Court signs the orders contemplated in Section 2 above, absent any further stay or other order issued by the Court of Appeal. The Court had tentatively granted the request of Respondent for the children to remain with him during the period of the stay, with appropriate orders in place to preclude travel outside of the State of California without court order. However, given that the Court is granting a stay of the orders it intended to make, the immediate change in custody would be contrary to the notion of a stay of the enforcement of those orders. However, the Court will grant Respondent visitation with the children from the date of execution of the Court’s orders until the tenth day, at 5:00 p.m., from the date of execution of the Court’s orders. Respondent shall surrender his passport to his counsel during the period of visitation. Respondent shall prepare an order for signature by the Court. Minor’s counsel shall be relieved upon entry of the order.


1 All further statutory references are to the Family Code unless otherwise specified.
2 The Court has subsequently made a series of orders granting visitation with the children to Respondent subject to certain conditions.
3 This case was heard together with Saifuddin v. Saifuddin, Kern County Superior Court Case No. S-1501-FL-627601.
4 Respondent had requested that this Court apply the law of India to its consideration of the DVPA request. The Court has declined to do so. Pursuant to Reich v. Purcell (1967) 67 Cal.2d 551, the court must examine the governmental interests or purposes served by the applicable statute or rule of law of each of the affected jurisdictions to determine whether there is a true conflict of law. If such conflict exists, the court must analyze the jurisdictions’ respective interests to determine which jurisdiction’s interest would be more severely impaired if that jurisdiction’s laws were not applied in the particular context presented by the case. Respondent’s request to apply the laws of India did not contain any statement of the law of India so that this Court could make a comparative analysis of the law of each jurisdiction to determine if there is a true conflict that would require a further analysis.
5 The 52nd Syedna was Petitioner’s uncle and Respondent’s grandfather.
6 In Petitioner’s deposition testimony admitted during the hearing, Petitioner was asked whether there were any statements or writings from Respondent in the six months prior to her leaving India that indicated Respondent would persecute her if she did not support his uncle. Her answer was: “He has not specifically told me anything.”
7 “Child custody determination” means a judgment, decree, or other order of a court providing for the legal custody, physical custody, or visitation with respect to a child. The term includes a permanent, temporary, initial, and modification order. The term does not include an order relating to child support or other monetary obligation of an individual. Fam. C.§3402(c).
8 Given the Court’s determination that India is the children’s “home state” and there is no evidence India has declined to exercise jurisdiction, the remaining potential bases for asserting jurisdiction under Section 3421 are inapplicable


THE DECISION IS MAILED TO ALL PARTIES AS STATED ON THE ATTACHED DECLARATION

http://www.kern.courts.ca.gov/home.aspx ... CI&p1=Left

Adam
Posts: 1261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#69

Unread post by Adam » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:13 am

Sceptical wrote:
Adam wrote: Wrong. Ai Bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin already confirmed this. It's his version not the "Alavi version".
where? any reference?
IF Ali bin Ibrahim hold Mazoon position, as you said "he was removed from post of Mazoon".
SMB(ra) never removed SKQ from Mazoon rutba.
1. Ref: Court Case of Syedna Taher Saifuddin.
Since you a re close confidante of the Qutbis, you can ask them as well, as it has already been submitted in the current case.

2. The 53rd Dai, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS removed him from all his positions.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#70

Unread post by Sceptical » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:30 am

Adam, you are lying as usual hiding behind 1 or 2 so called references. Please give us precise reference.
Read Alavi version on their website.

Fact = Kq was SMB mazoon until his demise. Period.

lawgraduate
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#71

Unread post by lawgraduate » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:53 am

Adam wrote:
Sceptical wrote: where? any reference?
IF Ali bin Ibrahim hold Mazoon position, as you said "he was removed from post of Mazoon".
SMB(ra) never removed SKQ from Mazoon rutba.
1. Ref: Court Case of Syedna Taher Saifuddin.
Since you a re close confidante of the Qutbis, you can ask them as well, as it has already been submitted in the current case.

2. The 53rd Dai, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS removed him from all his positions.
referring to point 2

how come fake dai remove genuine mazoon?

Rightlyguided
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:13 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#72

Unread post by Rightlyguided » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:25 am

Adam,
Ya I was incorrect. I misunderstood thinking it was our 15th Imam Al Aziz billah (SA)

Rightlyguided
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:13 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#73

Unread post by Rightlyguided » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:37 am

Sceptical wrote:Adam, you are lying as usual hiding behind 1 or 2 so called references. Please give us precise reference.
Read Alavi version on their website.

Fact = Kq was SMB mazoon until his demise. Period.
In the book Muntaza ul Akhbar it is mentioned that Ali bin ibrahim was removed.
How does the fact of KQ being mazoon negate the fact of Ali bin ibrahim being mazoon and then removed?

Immature logic.

If you have proof otherwise prove that he wasnt the mazoon before calling the opposite a liar.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#74

Unread post by Sceptical » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:03 am

Rightlyguided wrote: How does the fact of KQ being mazoon negate the fact of Ali bin ibrahim being mazoon and then removed?
Immature logic.
Maybe your Imam Adid will help you. You misunderstand as usual.
It's your immature logic :
1) KQ mazoon and Ali ibn Ibrahim removed from mazoon rutbah are two differents points.
2) SKQ was mazoon until the death of the last known haq na Dai.
Read my argument with Adam.

I didi'nt read Muntaza ul Akhbar, so give me exact reference.
I doubt someone who confuses Adid / Aziz / Salauddin / Hafizi / Mustaaeli can quote me Muntaza ul Akhbar.

remember
Rightlyguided wrote:Just because I have not been taught in any bayaan sabaq or majlis about that. My source is that only.
Your sources seem to be websites which you blindly believe to be true without having second thoughts

Adam
Posts: 1261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#75

Unread post by Adam » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:54 pm

Sceptical wrote:Adam, you are lying as usual hiding behind 1 or 2 so called references. Please give us precise reference.
Read Alavi version on their website.
Fact = Kq was SMB mazoon until his demise. Period.


The Alavi belief (and website), and Syedna Taher Saifuddin's court case both confirm the same. (Ref: Court Case of 1928)
Ali bin Ibrahim WAS the Mazoon.

The two sects differ as follows
- Dawoodi Bohras say he was the Mazoon and then removed, and then turned bad.
- Alavi Bohras say he was the Mazoon and went on to become their first Alavi Dai.

KQ had the same fate. He was the Mazoon until removed by the Dai of the time.

Therefore, the argument that no Mazoon has gone astray is wrong.
Ali bin Ibrahim and KQ are knwon examples.


james
Posts: 598
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#76

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:50 pm

The argument put forward by the followers of Khuzaima Qutbuddin that " No mazoon has ever gone astray" is of inconsequential value.

The argument holds weight only in the event of previous dawat kutub testifying mazoon's word as "infallible".Followers of Khuzaima Qutbuddin should invest their time and energy to prove the "infallibility of mazoon's word" to lend some credence to the " no mazoon gone astray " argument.


Also,if what Adam is asserting is true ( Ali bin Ibrahim being Mazoon) according to the Court Case of 1928,shouldn't the followers of Khuzaima Qutbuddin revert to being Alawis? After all, according to them "No Mazoon has gone astray".

Ozdundee
Posts: 892
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#77

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:36 pm

James and Adam....is your reason to denounce SKQ based on him opposing SMS claim to being the Diai ?

Do you have any other reasons to support SMS on competency ? If so what ?

If you leave aside the Nass ...do you really believe SMS is more knowledge able or better leader ? Please help or convince us ?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#78

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:54 pm

Ozdundee wrote:James and Adam....is your reason to denounce SKQ based on him opposing SMS claim to being the Diai ?

Do you have any other reasons to support SMS on competency ? If so what ?

If you leave aside the Nass ...do you really believe SMS is more knowledge able or better leader ? Please help or convince us ?
Bro Ozdundee,

How can you even ask such a question knowing very well that they are self proclaimed abdes (Slaves) and the duty of slaves is just to obey their masters blindly and nothing else, they don't have the right to think, analyse or evaluate ! They don't have the right to question, how many slaves have dared to question their masters ? And if they did, you know the consequences, they are eliminated ! When they have never questioned the ill practices of the earlier 2 Dais then how can you expect them to question the third one. The 53rd is exactly following the footsteps of his predecessors whether the case of hunting, extorting, self glorification etc so how can they question him when they have never questioned the earlier ones ? They have never been taught the Hadith which says that our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.) was always open to questions and never indulged in the ills that the Dais did.

seeker110
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#79

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:13 pm

The last two Dai's were baby making machines. More the merrier. Jamat has to take care of their brain dead children. They are zombies.

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#80

Unread post by Adam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:04 am

Ozdundee wrote:James and Adam....is your reason to denounce SKQ based on him opposing SMS claim to being the Diai ?
Do you have any other reasons to support SMS on competency ? If so what ?
If you leave aside the Nass ...do you really believe SMS is more knowledge able or better leader ? Please help or convince us ?
You really haven't figured any of this out now have you?
And no, I cannot leave the "Nass" aside. By doing that, you're going into "saqeefa"/election mode to elect a new Imam.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#81

Unread post by adna_mumin » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:14 am

Adam wrote:
Ozdundee wrote:James and Adam....is your reason to denounce SKQ based on him opposing SMS claim to being the Diai ?
Do you have any other reasons to support SMS on competency ? If so what ?
If you leave aside the Nass ...do you really believe SMS is more knowledge able or better leader ? Please help or convince us ?
You really haven't figured any of this out now have you?
And no, I cannot leave the "Nass" aside. By doing that, you're going into "saqeefa"/election mode to elect a new Imam.
Just to clarify. I did press 'Like' on the above post as my agreement on the principle in Adam's answer.

@Ozdundee
Nass is right at center of this belief. It is both the necessary AND sufficient condition for the believers.
Yes, it is Moula alone that determines his Mansoos.

So has it been, and so it will be.

lawgraduate
Posts: 261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#82

Unread post by lawgraduate » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:07 am

So basically Adam and his alike abdes will follow mufaddal based on alleged nass no matter how much their action is against common sense and Islam.

ALLAH has given aql but looks like these people have decided to not use it. open clear proof of autocracy is going unnoticed by these abdes?

these abdes are even ignoring life of Muhammed(s) and life of Imam Ali(s)? its really getting disastrous.

Sceptical
Posts: 261
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#83

Unread post by Sceptical » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:50 am

Adam wrote:The Alavi belief (and website), and Syedna Taher Saifuddin's court case both confirm the same. (Ref: Court Case of 1928)
Ali bin Ibrahim WAS the Mazoon.

The two sects differ as follows
- Dawoodi Bohras say he was the Mazoon and then removed, and then turned bad.
- Alavi Bohras say he was the Mazoon and went on to become their first Alavi Dai.

KQ had the same fate. He was the Mazoon until removed by the Dai of the time.

Therefore, the argument that no Mazoon has gone astray is wrong.
Ali bin Ibrahim and KQ are knwon examples.

As usual you didn't read my posts.
Alavi do believe that Ali ibn Ibrahim was mazoon of Syedna Sheik Adam RA. I've never said otherwise.
But they've never quoted Syedna Taher Saifuddin risala to justify it as you are doing. That was my point.

They quoted STS(ra) risala and Muntaza ul Akbar to clarify the rutba of Syedi Amin bin Jalaal :
As mentioned in the book Muntaza' ul-Akhbaar, In the Tarteeb (hierarchy) of the Hudood of 27th Da’i ul-Mutlaq Saiyedna Dawoodji Burhaanuddin bin S Qutubshah (aq), Saiyedna Shaikh Aadam saheb is above Saiyedi Ameenji. So saying that Saiyedi saheb was Mazoon and Saiyedna Shaikh Aadam saheb was assigned this post after his said demise in 1013 AH is wrong.

I didn't find the court case you mentioned.
Do you have a full version?

Adam
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#84

Unread post by Adam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:37 am

Sceptical wrote: As usual you didn't read my posts.
Alavi do believe that Ali ibn Ibrahim was mazoon of Syedna Sheik Adam RA. I've never said otherwise.
But they've never quoted Syedna Taher Saifuddin risala to justify it as you are doing. That was my point.

They quoted STS(ra) risala and Muntaza ul Akbar to clarify the rutba of Syedi Amin bin Jalaal :
As mentioned in the book Muntaza' ul-Akhbaar, In the Tarteeb (hierarchy) of the Hudood of 27th Da’i ul-Mutlaq Saiyedna Dawoodji Burhaanuddin bin S Qutubshah (aq), Saiyedna Shaikh Aadam saheb is above Saiyedi Ameenji. So saying that Saiyedi saheb was Mazoon and Saiyedna Shaikh Aadam saheb was assigned this post after his said demise in 1013 AH is wrong.

I didn't find the court case you mentioned.
Do you have a full version?
Even I'm not saying that THE ALAVIS QUOTE Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.
Why would they?

I just said that Syedna Taher Saifuddin's version and Alavi version is the same to one point. That Ali bin Ibrahim was the Mazoon. Period.
After that, both versions differ.

No, I don't have the full version at the moment. But the Qutbi clan will have a copy.

Thanks

Ozdundee
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#85

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:58 pm

Adam wrote:
Ozdundee wrote:James and Adam....is your reason to denounce SKQ based on him opposing SMS claim to being the Diai ?
Do you have any other reasons to support SMS on competency ? If so what ?
If you leave aside the Nass ...do you really believe SMS is more knowledge able or better leader ? Please help or convince us ?
You really haven't figured any of this out now have you?
And no, I cannot leave the "Nass" aside. By doing that, you're going into "saqeefa"/election mode to elect a new Imam.
Adam you and I have not had an argument in the past , let us leave it there.

I was checking whether your position is emotive or logical ...you have chosen a position where you believe what you have been told by third hand , I assume you never heard directly from smb when he had all the time in 50 years,other than the rozat tahera event, and you would not doubt that smb would have made an error or was forced to say whatever, you are convinced by what sms says when he says that he was given nass by his father .

I don't rely on nass I am convinced sms is not the best leader, now what is my alternative , it is SKQ for now un til he proves me wrong.

It is really hard for me to see eye to eye and that sms is leader to sirat mustaqim! I really try honestly but something pops up. ..like the rolls Royce or roti....can you help me ?

or don't you care what he does or behaves ?

Adam
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#86

Unread post by Adam » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:26 am

Ozdundee wrote:
I was checking whether your position is emotive or logical ...you have chosen a position where you believe what you have been told by third hand


Nope. my position is religous and backed by Aql (which religion demands).
I haven't heard anything third hand. I have said it many times. I was present in Raudat Tahera and I heard and saw Syedna RA perform Nass on Syedna Mufaddal TUS. I even saw the Mazoon at that time accepting this Nass.

I assume you never heard directly from smb when he had all the time in 50 years

Nope. I've heard Syedna RA take KQ's name as the Mazoon many times. And have always accepted it.
In the same way, I heard the Dai perform Nass in 1432H.

and you would not doubt that smb would have made an error or was forced to say whatever,

Correct. I do not doubt that even for a second. If Syedna RA was forced to say anything other than the truth, then the entire belief in the Dai is wrong. If you believe he was forced to perform Nass on the wrong person, then you might as well accept Awwal as your Imam.

you are convinced by what sms says when he says that he was given nass by his father .

Of course. Isn't that what Nass is?

It is really hard for me to see eye to eye and that sms is leader to sirat mustaqim!

That's a problem you'll have to work towards. The problem is you. Not Syedna TUS.


UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#87

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:40 pm

Adam wrote: I haven't heard anything third hand. I have said it many times. I was present in Raudat Tahera and I heard and saw Syedna RA perform Nass on Syedna Mufaddal TUS. I even saw the Mazoon at that time accepting this Nass.

what i heard was Burhanuddin Moula reciting Ya Sayyed as shohadai and Moiz bhaisaheb, untruthfully translating that into - Moula farmave che ke...rutba ma charave che...blah de blah. I also saw Moula RA being handed a piece of paper and being asked to read something when he read the incomplete sentence MS ne nass nu taj and then STOPPED
I assume you never heard directly from smb when he had all the time in 50 years
Nope. I've heard Syedna RA take KQ's name as the Mazoon many times. And have always accepted it.

\ You may have accepted it but your fake dai was doing his adawat all along. he admitted it on takhat - we all heard.
In the same way, I heard the Dai perform Nass in 1432H.
sorry, you imagined not "heard"
and you would not doubt that smb would have made an error or was forced to say whatever,
Correct. I do not doubt that even for a second. If Syedna RA was forced to say anything other than the truth, then the entire belief in the Dai is wrong. If you believe he was forced to perform Nass on the wrong person, then you might as well accept Awwal as your Imam.
he was not forced to do nass you fool. he was asked to read something and he was paraded in front of his beloved mumineen and then the mumineen were led to believe that nass was performed. Burhanuddin Moula did nass of his own free will right after he made SKQ the mazoon. That is why he never announced anyone else as his mansoos throughout his strong 50 year tenure. When announcing MS as his successor if he had wanted to would have been a piece of cake. That is why the sons panicked after he got a stroke and rand helter skelter to stage the "nass" drama

qjbj
Posts: 160
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#88

Unread post by qjbj » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:49 pm

"Nope. my position is religous and backed by Aql (which religion demands)"

Your Aql has been corrupted and prone to lying and to degrade women.

lawgraduate
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#89

Unread post by lawgraduate » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:33 am

alhaq wrote:Now kids r with haq and haq is with them
I think HAQ means money in your dictionary?

abde53
Posts: 307
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Re: Saifuddin v/s Saifuddin: Child custody case judgment

#90

Unread post by abde53 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:17 am

alhaq wrote:Now kids r with haq and haq is with them
You mean that kids are now being brain washed by SMS and his goons. Is the Master allowed to take children to Disney World or he is only allowed to keep children in his room teaching them how to say laanaat on his maternal family?