Dawoodi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#31

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:47 pm

"so now they are the reformists and we are what...? orthos???? suits me, i am not objecting."
That should make Jayanti happy that finally we are true Bohras and Kotharis are who knows what?? :evil:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#32

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:13 pm

omabharti wrote:Jayanti is trying to reform us, and BY DEFINITION, SHE OR HE BECOMES A REFORMIST
There is after all some benefits of Kotharis (regressives) visiting this forum they do want to reform and thus become part of reformists.
It is like "When rape is inevitable, lie down and enjoy it"

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#33

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:11 am

Admin wrote:
Mubarak wrote:
Because PDB is not an organization. It is a movement, you can be its supporter but not its member. This is a trivial point, and we have nothing more to say on this matter.
Hello Admin,

By the same token neither Admin nor Engineer Asghar Ali nor any other human being of this planet Earth is a member of PDB!!!

Best regards,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#34

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:34 am

Mutmaeen:
MR MUBARAK

do u believe that the dais are guided by the ta eed and ilhaam from the imam uz zamaan in seclusion?
or atleast all the dais till the 50th acted as per ta eed and ilhaam of the imam uz zamaan?


Mubarak:

Dear Brother Mutmaeen,

Thanks for posting direct query to me and I also sincerely tender my apologies for late reply.

Brother, your question needs technical correctness. ‘Ilham’ is a message between two parties, one of which is Almighty Allah. In your question the two parties are Dai and Imam thus the term ‘Ilham’ is not appropriate.

I am a ‘mamooli’ and common mumin and you are asking about my personal believes, I am wondering what that will make any difference to you? The appropriate question will be to ask what are the precise believes of Dawoodi Bohras Authorities in regard to the subject of your question.

One of the prominent authorities on ‘nasihat’ in Dawoodi Bohras Ismailiya Shia is Aaka Sheikh Sadik Ali Sahib, Surat. His ziyarat is approx three to five hundred meters from Jamiya Saifiya and on the road between Jamiya Saifiya, Mahad-uz-Zahra and general Kabristan where Aaka Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin (r.a.) is buried.

Aaka Sheikh Sadik Ali Sahib wrote on the subject matter a poetry, whose 23 stanzas are on left side and 23 stanzas on the right side, indicating 23 Dai-a-Mutlaq in Yemen and 23 in Hindustan. On the 47th stanza he wrote:
Nas vager Dai che buto’n barabar, Mat sir ne tu phod je mitti na devta per.”

Other than Mustakar Imam all other hierarchies are continued or discontinued as per the requirement of Mustakar Imam. Even one important hierarchy of ‘Nabi’ was stopped at Prophet Mohammed (s.a.). Dai Mutlaq post is not post of ‘masoom’ and among inferior (though they are superior to general Mumin, Mukasir and Mazoon) in entire hierarchy, if that post is discontinued then that should not make any surprises.

46th Dai Mutlaq, Aaka, Sayyedina, Molana Mohammad Badruddin (r.a.) was murdered by Chaman Aai (Chaman Aai – Jahannum ni khai). She was the kingpin of all ‘biddat’ in our pious and pristine Dawoodi Bohras faith.

Coming to your question, in the preamble we learnt that the authority on ‘nasihat’, Aaka Sheikh Sadik Ali Sahib has unambiguously indicated that the chain of Dai Mutlaq will cease at 46 thus subsequent occupants are just managing the affairs of community i.e. they are only ‘Dai Nazim’ and not ‘Dai Mutlaq’ and they does not have any spiritual connection with Mustakar Imam.

Best regards,

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#35

Unread post by mutmaeen » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:46 am

mr mubarak

as u said that the dai is above mazun mukasir and other mumins-surely if the imam wanted a discontinuation of the chain of doat ul mutlaqeen that phenomenon should have been made clear by the dai-46th dai if we presume ur theory is correct-how come syedi sheikh sadiq ali became the news breaker of this and not the 46th or an earlier dai?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#36

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:25 pm

mutmaeen wrote:mr mubarak

as u said that the dai is above mazun mukasir and other mumins-surely if the imam wanted a discontinuation of the chain of doat ul mutlaqeen that phenomenon should have been made clear by the dai-46th dai if we presume ur theory is correct-how come syedi sheikh sadiq ali became the news breaker of this and not the 46th or an earlier dai?
Dear Brother Mutmaeen sahib,

Pardon me to reply question with a question,

How come Prophet Eesa ibn Maryam (a.s.) in Inzeel (Bible) became the news breaker that after him will come the last Prophet in chain of Prophet - Mohammed (s.a.) and not the Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) himself?

Scholars of Molana Mohammed Badruddin (r.a.) era, scholars of later era and many of the prominent relatives (Bhai Sahebs) of Burhanuddin s/o Taher Saifuddin sahib have in ‘Marsiya’ written by them or in their personal testimonies unambiguously and categorically declared that 46th Dai-al-Mutlaq Molana Mohammed Badruddin (r.a.) was martyred without appointing anyone as his successor for post of Dai-al-Mutlaq and the chain of Dai-Mutlaq ceased on him like the chain of Prophet ceased on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

The full details can be learnt from following books:
1. Sansanikhez Hakaik
2. Heratangez Inkeshafat
3. Khamaelul Rati'een
4. Ilm na moti jaro nasihat ki tashreeh

Best regards,

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#37

Unread post by SBM » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:07 pm

Quote by Mubarak
"How come Prophet Eesa ibn Maryam (a.s.) in Inzeel (Bible) became the news breaker that after him will come the last Prophet in chain of Prophet - Mohammed (s.a.) and not the Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) himself?"

Can you please enlighten us which bible(there are different versions of Bible) and which verse it is mentioned about Prophet Jesus (pbuh) talking about Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) as last Prophet? Please provide authentic answer and not hearsay.
BTW Prophet Mohammed did say that he is last messenger from Allah and that is one of pillars of Islamic faith that there will no more messengers or prophets after Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).
Since Ahmadyahs (Qadianis) do not subscribe to this they have been declared as NON MUSLIM by all Muslim countries.

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#38

Unread post by mutmaeen » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:08 am

mr mubarak

rasul e khuda did catagorically say that he is khatam un nabiyeen-and if isa nabi did say that after him mohammed pbuh wud be the last nabi its absolutely fine.did dai mohammed badruddin ever say that the chainn of dais will stopp with him?
if not how can denominations below the dai foresee things that the dai couldnt?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#39

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:47 am

omabharti wrote:Quote by Mubarak
"How come Prophet Eesa ibn Maryam (a.s.) in Inzeel (Bible) became the news breaker that after him will come the last Prophet in chain of Prophet - Mohammed (s.a.) and not the Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) himself?"

Can you please enlighten us which bible(there are different versions of Bible) and which verse it is mentioned about Prophet Jesus (pbuh) talking about Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) as last Prophet? Please provide authentic answer and not hearsay.
BTW Prophet Mohammed did say that he is last messenger from Allah and that is one of pillars of Islamic faith that there will no more messengers or prophets after Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).
Since Ahmadyahs (Qadianis) do not subscribe to this they have been declared as NON MUSLIM by all Muslim countries.

Dear Brother Oma,

Aaka Rasoolallah Sayyedina Mohammed (s.a.) has categorically and unambiguously pronounced that he is the last Prophet in the chain of Prophet. And after him there will be no Prophet.

The Lord said to me (Moses): "What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the prophet speaks in My name, I Myself will call him to account..." (Deuteronomy 18:17-19)

The best way to analyze this passage is to pick it apart phrase by phrase. First of all, it is clear that this prophet will come "from among their brothers." THEY are Israelites. The Israelites are the descendants of Isaac. Their brothers then, are the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael. Thus, it is clear that this prophet will come from among the Arabs, as did Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon all of them).

Secondly, this prophet will be like Moses. Since this prophecy is often falsely attributed to Jesus, it is best to ask, "Who is more like Moses, Jesus or Muhammad?" (peace be upon all of them) Both Moses and Muhammad were brought into this world through natural means, whereas Jesus was not. Both Moses and Muhammad married and had children, while Jesus did not. Moses and Muhammad died normal deaths, and Jesus did not. Moses and Muhammad were statesmen. Jesus was not. Throughout his adult life, Jesus was never forced to emigrate, while Moses fled to Median and Muhammad fled to Medina.

Moses and Muhammad were involved in pursuits with their enemies and experienced moral and physical victories. Jesus had no such encounter and his victories were of a moral nature. The revelations given to Moses (The Torah) and Muhammad (The Qur’an) were written down during their lifetimes. However, the New Testament, which documented the traditions and sayings of Jesus, was written down years after his death. Both Moses and Muhammad brought forth legal and spiritual teachings, whereas the teachings of Jesus were mainly spiritual. Finally, both Moses and Muhammad were first rejected and then accepted by their people. Jesus was never truly accepted by the Israelites. Thus, it is clear that Muhammad was more like Moses than Jesus was. Please note that this comparison of these three mighty prophets of God in no way implies that they are or were in any sort of competition. All of the prophets (peace be upon them all) constitute one brotherhood, as do all believers.

Best regards,

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#40

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:10 am

Kind Attenetion: Brother Oma and Brother Mutmaeen

Book Name: Daim-ul-Islam
Part: I
Author: Molana Kazi Noman (r.a.)
Authenticated by: Molana Sayyedina Aaka Imam Moiz (a.s.)
Chapter: Valayat
Topic: Masal-a-Imamat
Further location guidance: After Aayat 28-61/6: Va mubashirm birsulin’ya’ti mim badismuhu Ahmedo

Every Prophet inform (forecast) about the coming Prophet. …Prophet Eesa (a.s.) informed about last Prophet Mohammed (a.s.)

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#41

Unread post by SBM » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:17 pm

Dear Mubarak
In earlier post you mentioned about Jesus being the NEWS BREAKER then in your last posting you totally twisted the facts and brought Moses in the picture. Like a true KOTHARI AAMIL, you started the mumbo jumbo and confused everyone
SO NOW TELL US WAS IT MOSES OR JESUS WHO WAS THE NEWS BREAKER ABOUT THE LAST PROPHET.
Simple question, where in the BIBLE does it say that Jesus predicted the last prophet by name????????

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#42

Unread post by porus » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:28 pm

There has been voluminous commentary about khatam-un-nabiyyin over the years and is adequately summarized here:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophe ... afaat.html

Both Isa (quran 61:6, John 16:12) and Musa (Deuteronomy 18:15) have been interpreted to impart the news of the coming of Muhammad. But Muslims canot have it both ways. First they say that the current renditions of Torah and Injeel are corrupt and then proceed to use them as arguments to support their case. So, Muslims are left with Quran 61:6, where Isa is asked by Allah to give news of Muhammad's coming.

The issue that Mubarak needs to address is why the end of the office of Dai al Mutlaq was not announced prior to the nomination of the 47th Dai by earlier Dais. This he has not addressed yet.

I admit that there is a festering dispute about the nass on the 47th Dai and we have covered this issue many times previously on this forum. As far as the vast majority of Bohras are concerned, this is a non-issue as the authencity of the current Dai al Mutlaq is not questioned by them.


Omabharti,

As I explained above, both verses in the Old and the New Testament are interpreted to give good news about Muhammad but he is not mentioned there by name. Quran 61:6 mentions Muhammad by the name Ahmed. If you believe Quran to be the word of Allah, then there is no question that Isa gave the news of the coming of Muhammad.

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#43

Unread post by SBM » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:57 pm

Br. Porus
I never questioned about the Khatimun Nabi but I question Mubarak's interpretation and the reason I did ask specifically quotes from Bible as Christians time and time again have asked the same question and there is no satisfactory answer given by anyone.
My point is for people not to quote something from Bible or any other Book which has some ambiguity.

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#44

Unread post by mutmaeen » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:43 am

MR MUBARAK

we are deviating from the moot point

just as nabi himself or his preceding nabi predicted that the chain of nabiyeen will end with rasul e khuda pbuh did the 46th dai himself or his predecesssor predict that the chain of dais will end with moulana badruddin? if not then how come a denomination below the dai have the power to read into the discomtinuation of such a chain which the dai himself couldnt?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#45

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:23 pm

mutmaeen wrote:MR MUBARAK

we are deviating from the moot point

just as nabi himself or his preceding nabi predicted that the chain of nabiyeen will end with rasul e khuda pbuh did the 46th dai himself or his predecesssor predict that the chain of dais will end with moulana badruddin? if not then how come a denomination below the dai have the power to read into the discomtinuation of such a chain which the dai himself couldnt?

Dear Brothers Mutmaeen, Porus and Oma,

My comments on coming Sat/Sun, Inshallah.

Best regards,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#46

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:40 pm

mutmaeen wrote:MR MUBARAK

we are deviating from the moot point

just as nabi himself or his preceding nabi predicted that the chain of nabiyeen will end with rasul e khuda pbuh did the 46th dai himself or his predecesssor predict that the chain of dais will end with moulana badruddin? if not then how come a denomination below the dai have the power to read into the discomtinuation of such a chain which the dai himself couldnt?

Hi Mutmaeen,

Before this weekend, when I take our discussion ahead, is it kindly possible for you to advise your thoughts on below mentioned my one humble question-

Is there a rule (name the book and location within to verify) that ranks below Dai-al-Mutlaq cannot foresee an event which Dai-al-Mutlaq himself cannot foresee?

Thanks and best regards,

Mubarak

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#47

Unread post by mutmaeen » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:31 am

there is no rule or book but plain logic says that if the spiritually blessed dai who is bestowed with the ta eed of imam uz zamaan cant predict a major event then how can his sub ordinate do so?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#48

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:02 pm

mutmaeen wrote:there is no rule or book but plain logic says that if the spiritually blessed dai who is bestowed with the ta eed of imam uz zamaan cant predict a major event then how can his sub ordinate do so?
Dear Brother Mutmaeen,


1. “there is no rule or book” – You are telling that you have thoroughly read all the books!!! And this text in quotation is your conclusion regarding the subject in discussion.

2. Nevertheless, as you are contending that no rules stops a person of lower rank to foresee what a superior rank holder cannot see – yourself has answered that Sheikh Sadik Ali sahib is barred by no rules that he cannot see an event which rank superior than him cannot see.

3. “plain logic” – if a matter is not subjected to authorized rules and regulations and if you are claiming a contention then it's 'logical' interpretation is subjected to ‘personal’ opinion. In your personal opinion a contention is logical for other person it may not be logical. Thus, if a contention is not regulated by rules then ‘logical’ is nothing but subjective to individual opinion.

4. Moreover, your ‘logical’ personal opinion is wrong. A lower rank holder can foretell an event which his superior may not. Example: Molana Prophet Yaqoob (a.s.) was the supreme in his era and in the same era Molana Prophet Yusuf (a.s.) was under and not over in authority of Molana Yaqoob (a.s.). Despite this hierarchical inferiority of Molana Yusuf (a.s.) he foretold/interpreted future event which his superior and more spiritually blessed Molana Prophet Yaqoob (a.s.) have not.

Hence proved, that Aaka Sheikh Sadik Ali sahib foretelling stands valid about the status after 46th Dai-al-Mutlaq:
“Nas vager Dai che buto’n barabar, Mat sir ne tu phod je mitti na devta per.”

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#49

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:51 pm

Bro Mubarak,

Thanks for yr inputs on this forums.

So do we conclude from yr posts that all the dai's after the 46th are impostors and are illegal under the principles of our deen? From where can we get a copy of Sheikh Sadikali's Nasihats?

I remember meeting one gentleman by the name of Bhai Saifuddin Varawala about 10 years ago, who was part of the group known as the adtalisiyas - 48'ers, his father was among those original 48 who had decided to boycott the ex dai taher saifuddin and had declared baraat on him for his immoral, anti -islamic and anti bohra deeni activities. This Bhai Saifuddin was quite adamant on the point that all the dai's after the 46th are frauds and impostors and all the problems that we face today are because they have no divine sanction or nass. According to him, its clear that the forces of satan have occupied the holy seat and are deliberately taking the community astray while they are enriching themselves openly and shamelessly. He had no sympathy for the ordinary bohras who refuse to believe that they are being hoodwinked and as for the reformists, he felt that their movement would never ever reach their goal as they were trying to reform the devil himself. This he likened to barking up the wrong tree!

He had also mentioned that after a long and painful search involving many scriptures and scholars, they had located the rightful dai, a very simple, pious and humble man, and were keeping him safe and protected, but content that he was the chosen successor. I did not know whether to believe him or not, but of one thing I was very impressed. His almost encyclopaedic knowledge of the Quran! In answer to most of my questions, he simply opened the quran and pointed to the right ayah in reply. He had gifted me a copy of Sheikha Sadikali's Nasihats which got lost after I lent it to somebody.

His clarity of thought, his simplicity and sincerity were amazing to say the least. I would love to hear from Bhai Insaf and the other learned people on this forum about their comments.

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#50

Unread post by mutmaeen » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:22 am

mr mubarak

please clarify if syedi sadiq ali saheb has catagorically written anywhere in his nasihat that the 46th dai would be the last dai ul mutlaq.so far u have alluded to symbolism-thats not hard evidence

as far as ur reference to nabi yaqub and nabi yusuf is concerened as per my beliefs a nabi is a born nabi though nubuwwat may be conferred on him after a particular age-thus nabi yusuf had the perfect stature and capability to prophess-syedi sadiq ali saheb is a great scholar no doubt but he couldnt have superceded any dai in rutba and thus couldnt hv foreseen what a dai couldnt

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#51

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:42 pm

i had asked a few questions to Mubarak and Bhai Insaf and others in this thread as above, but surprisingly they have not responded..??

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#52

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:24 am

There is a verse in the Diwan of Shaikh Sadiq Ali at page 103 of the second volume of 1233 edition which runs as under:-
Dai Zoeb pehla ne chhe Badruddin khatim
Meaning: Dai Zoeb (Sayedna Zoeb bin Musa) was the first Dai-ul-Mutlaq in order and 46th Dai Badruddin (Sayedna Mohammad Badruddin bin Abdeali Saifuddin) was the last Dai-ul-Mutlaq.
This was construed to be a prophecy as Shaikh Sadiq Ali had died before the death of Sayedna Mohammad Badruddin Saheb. Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had also refered this verse in his book "Zue-Nure-Haqqul-Mubin at page 99-103 and refuted it as misprint.

East Africawalla
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#53

Unread post by East Africawalla » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:20 pm

Interesting but there might be a the chance that in future we might have a Dai called Badruddin than your argument does not stand

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#54

Unread post by mutmaeen » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:03 am

the point is that syedna mohammed badruddin aqa is a dai ul mutlaq and so had the blessings of the imam uz zamaaan-and if he didnt prepare the dawat for trnsition as some of u believe there was a transition-then its a myth to believe that badruddin aqa was the last in line of dai ul mutlaq-imam aamir billah did prepare the dawat for transition as his minor son was to go in seclusion....why wud a rightful dai leave the dawat in commotion?

GreatBarrier
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#55

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:18 am

All this fuss about a history which none of us were there to witness and could have been doctored through literature.

Q for PDB: If the 46-47th Diai were not genuinly appointed and hence you have an issue with all upto 52nd, why not fix the present day issue by appointing the correct current Diai that you believe is eligible and let this initiative be progressed by the PDB's ?

And by the way if you had to choose who would it be ? Who woul;d be in the nomination ?

Imam zaman would surely be talking to someone ?

Q for Ortho-Kotharis: For the Orthodox what is the situation with 53rd ? Why no succession planning ?

Whether the appointment is to one of his sons or a anonymous Ustadh mumineen will judge him by his deeds, some will faithfully accept who ever regardless of qualifications.

She is out of question because since Huratul-Maleka no female has run the community ? Unless in 21st century we could lead the way and be an example for all religions (Pope, Dalai Lama, Ayatollah....).

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#56

Unread post by mutmaeen » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:31 am

gb

mumineen dont hv to worry abt the 53rd dai-its the prerogative of the 52nd dai to appoint his successor as and when he deems fit

East Africawalla
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#57

Unread post by East Africawalla » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:36 am

Its the Nass mate, whoever the hidden Imam deems fit to run the community and than the Dai does the Nass but ussually its from Quasre Ali as they are trained for this responsiblity therefore could be son or grandson

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#58

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:31 pm

S. Insaf wrote:There is a verse in the Diwan of Shaikh Sadiq Ali at page 103 of the second volume of 1233 edition which runs as under:-
Dai Zoeb pehla ne chhe Badruddin khatim
Meaning: Dai Zoeb (Sayedna Zoeb bin Musa) was the first Dai-ul-Mutlaq in order and 46th Dai Badruddin (Sayedna Mohammad Badruddin bin Abdeali Saifuddin) was the last Dai-ul-Mutlaq.
This was construed to be a prophecy as Shaikh Sadiq Ali had died before the death of Sayedna Mohammad Badruddin Saheb. Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had also refered this verse in his book "Zue-Nure-Haqqul-Mubin at page 99-103 and refuted it as misprint.

Dear Bhai Insaf Sahib,

Thanks for your strikingly precise and highly appealing post.

Best regards,

Mubarak

mutmaeen
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#59

Unread post by mutmaeen » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:31 am

there is less of hard evidence and more of conectures and fancy to the issue of dai ul mutlaq.it the notion that aqa mohd badruddin was the last of dai ul mutlaq sounds unconvincing

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#60

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:10 am

Dear Zulfiquar bhai,

I sincerely tender my regrets for delay in replying. Please find my humble suggestions in blue color below your points

Al Zulfiquar
Bro Mubarak,

Thanks for yr inputs on this forums.
Thanks for your kind words.

So do we conclude from yr posts that all the dai's after the 46th are impostors and are illegal under the principles of our deen?
Yes

From where can we get a copy of Sheikh Sadikali's Nasihats?
You can contact bhai Sajjad Hussain KG or Nafeesa masi daughter of Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj.

I remember meeting one gentleman by the name of Bhai Saifuddin Varawala about 10 years ago, who was part of the group known as the adtalisiyas - 48'ers, his father was among those original 48 who had decided to boycott the ex dai taher saifuddin and had declared baraat on him for his immoral, anti -islamic and anti bohra deeni activities. This Bhai Saifuddin was quite adamant on the point that all the dai's after the 46th are frauds and impostors and all the problems that we face today are because they have no divine sanction or nass. According to him, its clear that the forces of satan have occupied the holy seat and are deliberately taking the community astray while they are enriching themselves openly and shamelessly. He had no sympathy for the ordinary bohras who refuse to believe that they are being hoodwinked and as for the reformists, he felt that their movement would never ever reach their goal as they were trying to reform the devil himself. This he likened to barking up the wrong tree!

He had also mentioned that after a long and painful search involving many scriptures and scholars, they had located the rightful dai, a very simple, pious and humble man, and were keeping him safe and protected, but content that he was the chosen successor. I did not know whether to believe him or not, but of one thing I was very impressed. His almost encyclopaedic knowledge of the Quran! In answer to most of my questions, he simply opened the quran and pointed to the right ayah in reply. He had gifted me a copy of Sheikha Sadikali's Nasihats which got lost after I lent it to somebody.
Zulfiquar bhai, if he has given you a copy of Sheikh Sadik Ali sahib then those stanzas clearly convey that the chain of Dai-al-Mutlaq has stopped at Molana Mohammed Badruddin (r.a.). There will be no Dai-al-Mutlaq after Molana Badruddin (r.a.) and if Mr. Vara Wala is fabricating any new Dai he is indeed falsifying Sheikh Sadik Ali stanzas.
His clarity of thought, his simplicity and sincerity were amazing to say the least. I would love to hear from Bhai Insaf and the other learned people on this forum about their comments.