Dawoodi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Dawoodi Bohras

#1

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:50 am

Alhamdo lillahi va salamun ala ibadihil lazi nastafa. A’allaho khairul amma’yushrekoon.

Amma baad.

(1) Without any raw material Allah have created:

Ruhani’ world which we called as ‘Farishta’ (angel); then he created
Jirmani’ world - sky, sun, moon, stars, etc; then he created
Jismani’ world wherein we live – fire, air, water and soil – mines & minerals, vegetation, living beings other than humans; then he created
Insaan’ (humans) who is ‘Ashraful makhlooqat’ supreme most in ‘Jismani’ world because of his Akal’ (intellect)

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#2

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:11 am

Mubarak

Do you have any concrete evidence??

Since everything is created in this world, Who created ALLAH??

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#3

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:21 am

Why can't we simply accept the mysteries of creation and this universe and get along with our lives??

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#4

Unread post by Mubarak » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:42 pm

like_minded:
Do you have any concrete evidence??

Mubarak:
Yes,

Like a medicine manufacturer categorically publish the precise contents and compositions of its product so does Almighty Allah.

Like_minded:
Since everything is created in this world, Who created ALLAH??

Mubarak:
Mirza Ghalib: “…jo akal me gir gaya woh Khuda kyonkar ho gaya?”

As per Dawoodi Bohras, when it comes to Allah the only reply is: Allah hu (Allah hai). Questions like: Who created Allah / his age / from where / weight / height / length / breadth / food consumption / etc have no answers.

Marhoom Janab Bhai Ashiq Ali Muhib, Udaipur has once shared very good stanzas of some poet, May Allah bless Marhoom Ashiq Bhai Muhib:

“Falsafi ko behes me kabhi Khuda milta nahi,
Nakhuda milte hai lekin bakhuda milta nahi,
Dor ko sulja raha aur sira milta nahi.”


(bakhuda: one who takes to destination)

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:38 pm

Mubarak wrote:As per Dawoodi Bohras, when it comes to Allah the only reply is: Allah hu (Allah hai). Questions like: Who created Allah / his age / from where / weight / height / length / breadth / food consumption / etc have no answers.
Naturally there will be no answers in matters which only highly spiritual and auliya allahs have due to the divine powers granted to them by Allah swt and hence as per your own admission you have confirmed that burhanudin saab is not amongst one of them. No one except Rasul Allah s.a.w. knew about the exact secrets of Allah swt as He was the one who had the privilage of "Meraj Mubarak" and this divine knowledge was passed over to His closest companions including Hazrat Ali a.s. which is called "Seena ba seena ilm" and from them to the other Imams and auliya allahs. This is the true "Ruhaniyat".

Hence how can someone introduce you to the one with whom he has no contacts whatsoever. Therefore there is negligible zikr of Allah in the umpteen number of bayaans due to which the focal point for every bohra remains only burhanudin saab.
1) A bohra pays wajebat because his dai says and not because out of fear or duty towards Allah swt.
2) A bohra prays 'mola ni namaz' when he is doing imamat and not Allah swt ni namaz.
3) A bohra keeps beard because 'mola farmawe che' and not even once does he do it because it is Nabi s.a.w.'s sunnat.
4) A bohra believes that he/she will enter jannat only if burhanudin saab gives 'ruku chithi' no matter what his deeds are and
due to which there is no fear of Allah swt but only fear of burhanudin saab.
5) A bohra believes that only the miniscule piece of land known as 'bohra kabrastan' is a place from where his/her flight to
jannat takes off and that the rest of the planet which Allah swt has made becomes taboo for him/her.
6) A bohra addresses a non bohra muslim as "Aa to musalman che" and hence proves that he/she is not a muslim, thereby
rejecting the deen of Allah swt and the deen of Rasul Allah s.a.w.

The list is endless and it can go on and on.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#6

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:00 am

Bismillah hir Rahman nir Rahem

Alhamdo lillahi va salamun ala ibadihil lazi nastafa. A’allaho khairul amma’yushrekoon.

Amma baad.

(I)
Without any raw material Allah have created:

‘Ruhani’ world which we called as ‘Farishta’ (angel); then he created
‘Jirmani’ world - sky, sun, moon, stars, etc; then he created
‘Jismani’ world wherein we live – fire, air, water and soil – mines & minerals, vegetation, living beings other than humans; then he created
‘Insaan’ (humans) who is ‘Ashraful makhlooqat’ supreme most in ‘Jismani’ world because of his ‘Akal’ (intellect)

-Ahmed Ali Raj

(II)
Though the humans are supreme but they are born as dumb. Thus they desperately seek knowledge, training and guidance. To cater this need, Allah has created the man who listens Allah’s conversation and conveys to humans, thereby satisfying human’s need of knowledge and guidance- if not, then humans will allege Allah that you have not given birth among us who will be our teacher or guide…

-Ahmed Ali Raj

(III)
This teacher and faultless guide (hadi-a-kamil) was Molana Aadam (a.s.). Allah created him with wet mud and placed his soul in him. Aadam became alive; he observed and thought on ‘Jismani’ world and on his own birth. Aadam (a.s.) was highly intelligent, more intelligent than all other humans of his time. Aadam (a.s.) observed:

“I am”,
“I was not there and came in existence”,
“Neither I have given birth to myself nor this ‘Jismani’ world got born by itself”,
“Thus, there is someone who has given birth to us”,
And he must be faultless justice, the characteristics of a faultless justice is that he treat everyone alike. But what I see is thousands of differences! Upside are sky, sun, moon, bright stars, here darkness, fire, air, water, earth, mines and minerals, vegetation, animals, etc – why are they all different if Allah treat everyone alike? It infers that there must be some world before this world where as per Allah’s faultless justice everyone was born alike. Then something would have developed which lead to these differences. Hence it is proved that there must be some world before this world. That was the first world and this is the second – and there must be some creator of these two worlds. There must be some creator for these creations.”

When these observation strikes in thoughts of Molana Aadam (a.s.) he immediately offered his faith that there is no God but God and there is no creator than him. On this tendering of faith (acceptance of ‘Tawheed’) Almighty Allah rewarded Aadam (a.s.) with his benediction, ‘noor’ and ‘vahi’ (conversation with Allah).

-Ahmed Ali Raj

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#7

Unread post by like_minded » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:44 am

Mubarak

Nice story!! or should I call it "Fairy Tale"?

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#8

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:58 pm

like_minded wrote:Mubarak

Nice story!! or should I call it "Fairy Tale"?
Thanks!! you should call it “Fair Tale”.

anajmi
Posts: 13506
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:16 pm

Mubarak,

Who is Ahmed Ali Raj and on what is his evidence based?

aftabm
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#10

Unread post by aftabm » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:13 am

Mubarak,


Let me ask you one direct question....

How do you ( or for tht matter, as you would definately quote, Janab Ahmed Ali Raj) put the current regime of dawoodi bohra dai, syedana saheb. Is he spreading the pristine(????) message of islam as per your guidance(Read Sheikh Ahmed Ali's).

If yes, are you following it...
If no, are those who follow him are not dawoodi bohra (the pristine form of islam).
If you think that the current regime is not on the right path, would you be kind enough to elaborate that what you are doing against it. What kind of advice you aala Ustad would have given you.....

I m also from udaipur and i respect Sheikh saheb for his wisdom, his knowledge on islamic issues. But to esclate him above everyone would be something that even he would not have liked to.

Few more things.....
This is very sad to see that you keep on coming with such posts with childish tales and arguements. Why do u have to ridicule or mock some one else's faith. I agree that you have all the rights to proselytize your ideas around here and no one is going to stop you from doing this.

You keep on badmouthing Mr Engineer on this platform time and again. I m sure no amount of logic (even from your pristine form of islam) permits you or anyone to utter such such derogatory remarks about any one, let alone Mr Engineer who is ofcourse much older than you and definately a better scholar.

I request you to maintain the decorum of the forum and not abuse the freedom of speech which is so kindly being provided to all of us.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#11

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:29 am

Good Post brother Aftab,

He is doing all this because he learned it from his teacher who on his part has written a complete book "Naqab Kushai" against Asghar Ali Engineer. In later stages (after being expelled from Jamia Saifia and when his maafi naama was rejected repeatedly) Shaikh Saheb has claimed that nas was not done on 47th Dai so he was just incharge of community affairs and Mubarak has confirmed this in his posts. If he was sure that Nas was not done than why he worked 40 years in Jamia and why did he apologised on being expelled. Mubarak and like wise are just creating hatred.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#12

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:10 pm

Hussain_KSA wrote:Good Post brother Aftab,

He is doing all this because he learned it from his teacher who on his part has written a complete book "Naqab Kushai" against Asghar Ali Engineer. In later stages (after being expelled from Jamia Saifia and when his maafi naama was rejected repeatedly) Shaikh Saheb has claimed that nas was not done on 47th Dai so he was just incharge of community affairs and Mubarak has confirmed this in his posts. If he was sure that Nas was not done than why he worked 40 years in Jamia and why did he apologised on being expelled. Mubarak and like wise are just creating hatred.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 34&start=0

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=1021

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#13

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:15 pm

anajmi wrote:Mubarak,

Who is Ahmed Ali Raj and on what is his evidence based?
Details: In book 'Hayat-a-tai'yaba' (his autobiography).
Very brief: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/uploads/news/ ... jul_08.pdf (July edition of Dawoodi Bohra Journal).

Evidence: All authentic books

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#14

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:20 pm

Faith in Allah is omnipotent and panacea

When Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) was about to catapult into tower of fire, Almighty Allah asked angel Zibraeel to help his friend. Zibaeel did but Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) declined his personal offer. Zibraeel offered help from Allah? Ibrahim (a.s.) declined. Zibraeel curiously requested reason. “Things which are not in my control are for sure is in control of Almighty Allah. Ignition of this fire, my sitting in this catapult, etc is beyond my control but surely is in control of Allah. Likewise, if I am thrown and got burn alive it will be as per Allah’s will. Thus, why should I go against the will of Allah?

When Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) was catapulted the tower of fire turned in flower posy.

Friends the moral of this story is in matters which are beyond our control - we should express full faith in Almighty Allah (outcome will be good) like Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) did.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#15

Unread post by Danish » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:31 pm

Mubarak wrote:Faith in Allah is omnipotent and panacea
And so is your faith in Satan. As I mentioned earliar, God and Satan are two faces of the same coin with opposing attributes created by Man.

aftabm
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#16

Unread post by aftabm » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:00 am

Mubarak wrote:Faith in Allah is omnipotent and panacea

When Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) was about to catapult into tower of fire, Almighty Allah asked angel Zibraeel to help his friend. Zibaeel did but Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) declined his personal offer. Zibraeel offered help from Allah? Ibrahim (a.s.) declined. Zibraeel curiously requested reason. “Things which are not in my control are for sure is in control of Almighty Allah. Ignition of this fire, my sitting in this catapult, etc is beyond my control but surely is in control of Allah. Likewise, if I am thrown and got burn alive it will be as per Allah’s will. Thus, why should I go against the will of Allah?

When Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) was catapulted the tower of fire turned in flower posy.

Friends the moral of this story is in matters which are beyond our control - we should express full faith in Almighty Allah (outcome will be good) like Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) did.
Mubarak, you have yet to answer my questions

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#17

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:57 pm

aftabm wrote:Mubarak,


Let me ask you one direct question....

How do you ( or for tht matter, as you would definately quote, Janab Ahmed Ali Raj) put the current regime of dawoodi bohra dai, syedana saheb. Is he spreading the pristine(????) message of islam as per your guidance(Read Sheikh Ahmed Ali's).

If yes, are you following it...
If no, are those who follow him are not dawoodi bohra (the pristine form of islam).
If you think that the current regime is not on the right path, would you be kind enough to elaborate that what you are doing against it. What kind of advice you aala Ustad would have given you.....

I m also from udaipur and i respect Sheikh saheb for his wisdom, his knowledge on islamic issues. But to esclate him above everyone would be something that even he would not have liked to.

Few more things.....
This is very sad to see that you keep on coming with such posts with childish tales and arguements. Why do u have to ridicule or mock some one else's faith. I agree that you have all the rights to proselytize your ideas around here and no one is going to stop you from doing this.

You keep on badmouthing Mr Engineer on this platform time and again. I m sure no amount of logic (even from your pristine form of islam) permits you or anyone to utter such such derogatory remarks about any one, let alone Mr Engineer who is ofcourse much older than you and definately a better scholar.

I request you to maintain the decorum of the forum and not abuse the freedom of speech which is so kindly being provided to all of us.


Aftab:
How do you ( or for tht matter, as you would definately quote, Janab Ahmed Ali Raj) put the current regime of dawoodi bohra dai, syedana saheb. Is he spreading the pristine(????) message of islam as per your guidance(Read Sheikh Ahmed Ali's).
Mubarak:
Case to case basis – yes and no.

Aftab:
If yes, are you following it...
Mubarak:
If the case is in line with Fatimi Dawat then yes or otherwise

Aftab:
If no, are those who follow him are not dawoodi bohra (the pristine form of islam).
Mubarak:
All those who follow Molana Dawood Bin Qutub Shah (r.a.) are Dawoodi Bohras = (pristine) Islam.


Aftab:
If you think that the current regime is not on the right path, would you be kind enough to elaborate that what you are doing against it. What kind of advice you aala Ustad would have given you.....
Mubarak:
The current regime on case to case basis will be categorized as following right or wrong path. If Janab Burhannuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar are contending as per Fatimi Dawat then I will support both and vice a versa. Ustad would have advice go as per Fatimi Dawat rules and regulations “Ahdinas sirat al mustakima…”

Aftab:
I m also from udaipur and i respect Sheikh saheb for his wisdom, his knowledge on islamic issues. But to esclate him above everyone would be something that even he would not have liked to.
Mubarak:
Following paragraphs are based on the proof presented in books:
1. Sansanikhez Hakaik
2. Heratangez Inkeshafat
3. Khamaelul Rati'een
4. ‘Ilm na moti jaro’ nasihat ki tashreeh
5. Nikab Kushai

Unlike Janab Burhannuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar Ali whose actions are knitted on the core of their getting ‘increase in fame’, Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj does not like anyone to eulogize/praise him. Hundreds of book that he has written, he has used his name as “Ahmed Ali Raj” and not used any suffix or prefix such as “Sheikh” or NKD etc. I many a times uses prefix and suffix with his name because of his love, he is my mother. I have never asked anyone to escalate him above all, have I?

However, when we compare his wisdom / knowledge / character / loyalty in abiding to Fatimi Dawat rules with - murderer, liar and money hungry Janab Burhannuddin sahib and worst enemy of Fatimi Dawat, Daroo khor (alcoholic) Engineer Asghar Ali then Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj is more knowledgeable, more wiser, man of great character and strictest follower of Fatimi Dawat rules and regulations, whereas Janab Burhannuddin s/o Janab Late Tahir Saiffuddin and Engineer Asghar Ali in many of the cases are otherwise.

Aftab:
Few more things.....
This is very sad to see that you keep on coming with such posts with childish tales and arguements.

Mubarak:
Entire forum in general and this thread in particular can you prove any tale that I have mentioned is not in the line of faith of Fatimi Dawat? I have presented hundred plus of posts and you have not mention even three tales/arguments that are against the faith of Fatimi Dawat! Without referring to proof you have jumped to conclusion! First prove your point and then jump to conclusion, shouldn’t you? Thus in absence of proof your conclusion is childish.



Aftab:
Why do u have to ridicule or mock some one else's faith. I agree that you have all the rights to proselytize your ideas around here and no one is going to stop you from doing this.
Mubarak:
“Today you are mocking us; remember tomorrow we will mock you.” Said Prophet Nooh (a.s.) when non-believers ridiculed him making ark.



Aftab:
You keep on badmouthing Mr Engineer on this platform time and again.
Mubarak:
As per Fatimi Dawat daroo (alcohol) drinking (except in case of life saving emergencies) is prohibited and haram, and is considered as mother of all evils. Aftab bhai, If Engineer Asghar Ali does anti Islam - will you support Janab Engineer Asghar Ali or Islam? In case you decided to support Islam and vociferous against Engineer Asghar will you categorize your act as “badmouthing”?



Aftab:
I m sure no amount of logic (even from your pristine form of islam) permits you or anyone to utter such such derogatory remarks about any one, let alone Mr Engineer who is ofcourse much older than you and definately a better scholar.
Mubarak:
As you say that you are from Udaipur and if you have attended Zoher/Asar prayers on 10th Moharram (the day of Aashoor) in any year in your life; then on that day in all the mosques managed by Bohra Youth there is categorically ‘Lanat’ sent on Abu Baker, Umar, Usman, Maviya, Yazeed, Abu Sufiyan, etc When you are attending Imamat prayers you stands as part of the whole group thus you too are using highest degree of derogatory remarks. If you say that you isolate from that group then remember the institution that you belong to i.e. Bohra Youth officially on 10th Moharram every year had in past and will in future did and will do that exercise, the same as per you usage of derogatory remark “Lanat”.

You can guess my identity but cannot categorically prove it without my consent. Thus, without categorically knowing me you cannot reach to the conclusion that Engineer is elder than me, can you? And by the same token on the matters of scholarly aptitude


Aftab:

I request you to maintain the decorum of the forum and not abuse the freedom of speech which is so kindly being provided to all of us.
Mubarak:
This forum is owned by Dawoodi Bohras. Freedom of speech is abused when I am writing not as per the faith of Dawoodi Bohras. Structure of Dawoodi Bohra Youth institute is democracy which means all resources are owned by all members. I being Youth member thus I am the owner of this forum like other members hence, no one has provided me freedom of speech on this forum but like other Bohra Youth members I own it.

Aftab bhai, first present the proof that my contentions are against faith/rules of Dawoodi Bohras, and ask if you do not understand but do not jump to conclusion – this is how in my personal opinion you can maintain the decorum of this forum and will not abuse the freedom of speech.

Best regards,

Mubarak

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#18

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:16 pm

Mubarak wrote:Bismillah hir Rahman nir Rahem

Alhamdo lillahi va salamun ala ibadihil lazi nastafa. A’allaho khairul amma’yushrekoon.

Amma baad.

(I)
Without any raw material Allah have created:

‘Ruhani’ world which we called as ‘Farishta’ (angel); then he created
‘Jirmani’ world - sky, sun, moon, stars, etc; then he created
‘Jismani’ world wherein we live – fire, air, water and soil – mines & minerals, vegetation, living beings other than humans; then he created
‘Insaan’ (humans) who is ‘Ashraful makhlooqat’ supreme most in ‘Jismani’ world because of his ‘Akal’ (intellect)

-Ahmed Ali Raj

(II)
Though the humans are supreme but they are born as dumb. Thus they desperately seek knowledge, training and guidance. To cater this need, Allah has created the man who listens Allah’s conversation and conveys to humans, thereby satisfying human’s need of knowledge and guidance- if not, then humans will allege Allah that you have not given birth among us who will be our teacher or guide…

-Ahmed Ali Raj

(III)
This teacher and faultless guide (hadi-a-kamil) was Molana Aadam (a.s.). Allah created him with wet mud and placed his soul in him. Aadam became alive; he observed and thought on ‘Jismani’ world and on his own birth. Aadam (a.s.) was highly intelligent, more intelligent than all other humans of his time. Aadam (a.s.) observed:

“I am”,
“I was not there and came in existence”,
“Neither I have given birth to myself nor this ‘Jismani’ world got born by itself”,
“Thus, there is someone who has given birth to us”,
And he must be faultless justice, the characteristics of a faultless justice is that he treat everyone alike. But what I see is thousands of differences! Upside are sky, sun, moon, bright stars, here darkness, fire, air, water, earth, mines and minerals, vegetation, animals, etc – why are they all different if Allah treat everyone alike? It infers that there must be some world before this world where as per Allah’s faultless justice everyone was born alike. Then something would have developed which lead to these differences. Hence it is proved that there must be some world before this world. That was the first world and this is the second – and there must be some creator of these two worlds. There must be some creator for these creations.”

When these observation strikes in thoughts of Molana Aadam (a.s.) he immediately offered his faith that there is no God but God and there is no creator than him. On this tendering of faith (acceptance of ‘Tawheed’) Almighty Allah rewarded Aadam (a.s.) with his benediction, ‘noor’ and ‘vahi’ (conversation with Allah).

-Ahmed Ali Raj

Baby crows are born white in colour but when mother crow feeds a particular type of black insect in their beaks only then their skin starts getting dark. And every adult crow is black!

Almighty Allah gives ‘rizk’ (livelihood/food) to baby crows in their nest.

“Hathi ni man aur chinti ni kan”

As per the requirement Almighty Allah give grain to an ant and grains to elephant.

Prior to giving birth to Aadam (a.s.), Almighty Allah prepared ‘rizk’ food for Aadam. Thus we can deduce that the rule of Almighty Allah is first he will bandobast ‘rizk’ then will send humans on earth.

Almighty Allah is merciful, bountiful and moreover he is faultless justice then why there is malnutrition among children’s especially in African nation? Why selected pockets in world always face food crises and people starve to death? On the other hand there are hotels where one night party cost is equal to yearly ration for many of the families! There are privileged children’s who gets abundant and never have malnutrition’s through out their lives. Allah is faultless justice then why there are these discrepancies? Why does some children’s born with physical disablement and others healthy though their parents may be economically rich or poor? Why does some part of world get badly affected by natural calamites whereas some part enriches themselves because of natural resources? The faultless justice demand equal treatment but what we can witness is discrepancies! Irrespective of sect or religion everyone has core belief that Almighty God is faultless justice and justice demands equal treatment with all then why are their discrepancies?

A person is punished in present tense because of the sins they did and not because of sins they will do in future. A new born supposedly doesn’t do any sins then why are some of them born handicapped?

The rule of Allah is he never punish without sins. He is by default merciful and compassionate.

We can infer from the above contentions that there would have been world before this world where everyone was alike justifying the faultless equality and justification rule of Allah. Then there in that world some as per their will did as per Allah’s liking and others otherwise, and our this world is second world, those who did good there are rewarded here and those who did otherwise are punished = born handicapped/healthy, rich/poor, smart/ugly, free/slave, resourceful/deprived, etc

Regards,

Mubarak

aftabm
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#19

Unread post by aftabm » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:00 am

Mubarak wrote:
Aftab:
How do you ( or for tht matter, as you would definately quote, Janab Ahmed Ali Raj) put the current regime of dawoodi bohra dai, syedana saheb. Is he spreading the pristine(????) message of islam as per your guidance(Read Sheikh Ahmed Ali's).
Mubarak:
Case to case basis – yes and no.

Aftab:
If yes, are you following it...
Mubarak:
If the case is in line with Fatimi Dawat then yes or otherwise

Aftab:
If no, are those who follow him are not dawoodi bohra (the pristine form of islam).
Mubarak:
All those who follow Molana Dawood Bin Qutub Shah (r.a.) are Dawoodi Bohras = (pristine) Islam.


Aftab:
If you think that the current regime is not on the right path, would you be kind enough to elaborate that what you are doing against it. What kind of advice you aala Ustad would have given you.....
Mubarak:
The current regime on case to case basis will be categorized as following right or wrong path. If Janab Burhannuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar are contending as per Fatimi Dawat then I will support both and vice a versa. Ustad would have advice go as per Fatimi Dawat rules and regulations “Ahdinas sirat al mustakima…”

Aftab:
I m also from udaipur and i respect Sheikh saheb for his wisdom, his knowledge on islamic issues. But to esclate him above everyone would be something that even he would not have liked to.
Mubarak:
Following paragraphs are based on the proof presented in books:
1. Sansanikhez Hakaik
2. Heratangez Inkeshafat
3. Khamaelul Rati'een
4. ‘Ilm na moti jaro’ nasihat ki tashreeh
5. Nikab Kushai

Unlike Janab Burhannuddin and Janab Engineer Asghar Ali whose actions are knitted on the core of their getting ‘increase in fame’, Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj does not like anyone to eulogize/praise him. Hundreds of book that he has written, he has used his name as “Ahmed Ali Raj” and not used any suffix or prefix such as “Sheikh” or NKD etc. I many a times uses prefix and suffix with his name because of his love, he is my mother. I have never asked anyone to escalate him above all, have I?

However, when we compare his wisdom / knowledge / character / loyalty in abiding to Fatimi Dawat rules with - murderer, liar and money hungry Janab Burhannuddin sahib and worst enemy of Fatimi Dawat, Daroo khor (alcoholic) Engineer Asghar Ali then Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj is more knowledgeable, more wiser, man of great character and strictest follower of Fatimi Dawat rules and regulations, whereas Janab Burhannuddin s/o Janab Late Tahir Saiffuddin and Engineer Asghar Ali in many of the cases are otherwise.

Aftab:
Few more things.....
This is very sad to see that you keep on coming with such posts with childish tales and arguements.

Mubarak:
Entire forum in general and this thread in particular can you prove any tale that I have mentioned is not in the line of faith of Fatimi Dawat? I have presented hundred plus of posts and you have not mention even three tales/arguments that are against the faith of Fatimi Dawat! Without referring to proof you have jumped to conclusion! First prove your point and then jump to conclusion, shouldn’t you? Thus in absence of proof your conclusion is childish.



Aftab:
Why do u have to ridicule or mock some one else's faith. I agree that you have all the rights to proselytize your ideas around here and no one is going to stop you from doing this.
Mubarak:
“Today you are mocking us; remember tomorrow we will mock you.” Said Prophet Nooh (a.s.) when non-believers ridiculed him making ark.



Aftab:
You keep on badmouthing Mr Engineer on this platform time and again.
Mubarak:
As per Fatimi Dawat daroo (alcohol) drinking (except in case of life saving emergencies) is prohibited and haram, and is considered as mother of all evils. Aftab bhai, If Engineer Asghar Ali does anti Islam - will you support Janab Engineer Asghar Ali or Islam? In case you decided to support Islam and vociferous against Engineer Asghar will you categorize your act as “badmouthing”?



Aftab:
I m sure no amount of logic (even from your pristine form of islam) permits you or anyone to utter such such derogatory remarks about any one, let alone Mr Engineer who is ofcourse much older than you and definately a better scholar.
Mubarak:
As you say that you are from Udaipur and if you have attended Zoher/Asar prayers on 10th Moharram (the day of Aashoor) in any year in your life; then on that day in all the mosques managed by Bohra Youth there is categorically ‘Lanat’ sent on Abu Baker, Umar, Usman, Maviya, Yazeed, Abu Sufiyan, etc When you are attending Imamat prayers you stands as part of the whole group thus you too are using highest degree of derogatory remarks. If you say that you isolate from that group then remember the institution that you belong to i.e. Bohra Youth officially on 10th Moharram every year had in past and will in future did and will do that exercise, the same as per you usage of derogatory remark “Lanat”.

You can guess my identity but cannot categorically prove it without my consent. Thus, without categorically knowing me you cannot reach to the conclusion that Engineer is elder than me, can you? And by the same token on the matters of scholarly aptitude


Aftab:

I request you to maintain the decorum of the forum and not abuse the freedom of speech which is so kindly being provided to all of us.
Mubarak:
This forum is owned by Dawoodi Bohras. Freedom of speech is abused when I am writing not as per the faith of Dawoodi Bohras. Structure of Dawoodi Bohra Youth institute is democracy which means all resources are owned by all members. I being Youth member thus I am the owner of this forum like other members hence, no one has provided me freedom of speech on this forum but like other Bohra Youth members I own it.

Aftab bhai, first present the proof that my contentions are against faith/rules of Dawoodi Bohras, and ask if you do not understand but do not jump to conclusion – this is how in my personal opinion you can maintain the decorum of this forum and will not abuse the freedom of speech.

Best regards,

Mubarak
This board is not managed by Progressive Dawoodi bohras, not owned by. There is hell lot of difference between being "owned" and "managed". I hope you understand that. Everyone is welcome here and everyone has made it what it is today. I have already said tht you can proselytize your ideas here, but refrain from making wrong statement and insulting remarks. You dont have any right to ridicule or mock any one's faith, whether it is part of islam or not. Secondly, you can criticize Mr engineer as much as you can, but you dont have any rights to call him (for that matter any one) "names". The question, whether i support Mr Engineer or Islam is irrelevant here, I may not support him but i would certainly oppose personal ranting about anyone.


I m from udaipur and i have attended those namaz that you ve been referring to, and i have never listened any cursing on prophet's companion during these.



P.S. Please back up your so-called-narratives with quran, some authentic books or traditions, and not refer to some majlis, vaiz or some other anecdotes.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#20

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:20 pm

Dear Aftab bhai,

This 10th Moharram (Aashura), during midday prayer if you are in Vazeehpura mosque, Boharwadi, Udaipur then please pay attention then you will observe that categorically and vociferously “Lanat” is sent by the members of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras on Abubaker, Umar, Usman, Maviya, Yazeed, etc. If you are not present in Udaipur then you can confirm this contention with the Pesh Imam of Vazeehpura Mosque - Janab Peer Khan Khara Ghura Wala (30, Gulabeshwar Marg, Inside Hathipole, Udaipur - 3103001, Rajasthan, India) or with senior Bohra Youth leaders like Janab Bhai Abid Adeeb sahib, etc.

Best regards,

Mubarak

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#21

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:35 pm

Tape it ,put for all to see and prove your point.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#22

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.)

Molana, Dai-a-haq, Sayyedina Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) served seven Duwat-a-haq before himself being appointed as Dai. He lived for ninety five years and was elder than all Dai’s before him. In his era there was severe unrest between Hindus and Muslims thus mutton was not freely sold in market and due to restrictions cattle were secretly slaughtered inside his house.

Sayyedi Khan Ji ibn Pheer Ji went to serve Dai of time, he was seeking how to serve, and he observed that post slaughtering there were some rubbish left which creates bad smell and bothers everyone including Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.). He made a big utensil and in night he will wake up, collects all leftovers of cattle slaughtering in that utensil, carry on his head and will throw it far away. And in night will also offer tons of prayers.

Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) inquired how come now there is no bad smell coming out of butcher space? One person replied, “Eik Udaipuri chokro che, eh saglu saaf kare che.”
Tam’e halkai si na kaho, eh sha'ks ghana ooncha ohda nu malik ban se”, replied Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.). Such was the love and affection for Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.) by Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.).

Molana Khan Ji (r.a.) served for thirty years in Ahmedabad. He was revered as ‘Mukasir’. On a visit to Ahmedabad, Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) asked for very immediate presentation of Account Books. He presented but with a very small delay. Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) got bit upset on even that small delay as his approach was Account Book must be produced immediately to all those who ask for. That evening Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer didn’t went home but sat outside the door of Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.). A Sheikh came and ask, “kem Khan Ji bhai aaje ghar su kaam nahi jata?” “Mara Mola thoda naraz che, jahan sudi eh mane maaf nahi kare, me yahan rahis.” Message was conveyed to Molana Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) he invited Sayyedi Khan Ji inside and showered all his blessings and bounty on him and suggested him to go and serve the people of Udaipur.

Molana Khan Ji ibn Pheer Ji came to Udaipur and served for eight years before his demise on 2nd Moharram Hijri 1118. Sayyedi Abdul Kadir Hakimmuddin (r.a.), Burhanpur was his able pupil. Molana Khan Ji (r.a.) taught ‘Taurat’ to Sayyedi Mazoon Abdul Kader Hakimmuddin (r.a.), many years Sayyedi Hakimmuddin (r.a.) resided in Udaipur as a learner under Molae Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.). After the death of later on his grave, former wrote poetry, you can see the same hand written poetry by Sayyedi Hakimmuddin (r.a.) when you uncover cloth from the grave of Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer. Its meaning: “This grave is of Great munificence. Who is lying beneath it? This is one who does ‘hazat ravai’ of both person either one who visits his grave or call him from far away.”

The oldest mosque in Udaipur is that in Khanpura (Choti Boharwadi) which is three hundred years old, and the name of the area, ‘Khanpura’ was given in the honor of Sayyedi Khan Ji (r.a.). Today that section of the mosque where ladies do prayers in mosque was originally House of Sayyedi Pheer Ji (father of Sayyedi Khan Ji). Grave of Sayyedi Pheer Ji is on hill inside premises of Khan Ji Pheer Graveyard. As said earlier that era was associated with strong rift between Hindus and Muslims, in that rift, Son of Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer - Ali bhai was unjustly put behind bars and he died in prison. May Almighty Allah grant ‘afzalul zaza’ and ‘khair’ to Ali ibn Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.). On 29-Dec-2008 i.e. 2nd Moharram is the Urs Mubarak of Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.), May Almighty Allah grant afzalul zaza and khair to Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.).

Sixty years from Molana Qutubuddin Shaheed (r.a.), Ahmedabad came Mukasir Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.) and sixty years from him came Mazoon Sayyedi Lukman Ji Sahib (r.a.), Udaipur.

It is said, “Har so saal (hundred years) me Delhi bolti hai!” Ustad Ahmed Ali Raj use to say, “Har so saal (hundred years) me Udaipur bolta hai!”

Three hundred years back when Aaka Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer died, the Bohra community was bifurcated like it is now – Progressive and Shabab. The then Dai Molana Abdul Moosa Kaleemuddin (r.a.) assigned Sayyedi Abdul Kadir (r.a.) to unify both parties of Udaipur. Sayyedi Abdul Kadir Hakimuddin (r.a.) camped much before Udaipur and sent message to both parties that should both parties be coming together to receive me only then I will come in Udaipur otherwise I will leave. Mam Ji bhai, whose grave is next to Sayyedi Pheer Ji in Khan Ji Pheer Graveyard in Udaipur, was a very rich man. He brokered peace between both factions, he made them understood that Mazoon Sayyedi Hakimuddin (r.a.) is the person with high respect and if he leave without entering our city because of internal fighting then it will look very bad of us, lets forget all our grievances and go together to welcome him. Mam Ji bhai unified both factions and all together in unison went to welcome Sayyedi Abdul Kadir Hakimuddin (Burhanpur) in Udaipur.

This was the approach of Sayyedi Abdul Kadir Hakimuddin (r.a.) he cared for both factions and unified both parties of Udaipur. Unlike Sayyedi Hakimuddin (r.a.) Sayyedina Burhannuddin has neither camped outside Udaipur nor he cared to unify both Progressive and Shabab.

After one hundred years from the above incident there was another bifurcation in Udaipur Bohras – Kanji Hall and Ambav Garh; there were two families Pali Wala and Kurabad Wala family, former was without ‘Raza’ and later was with ‘Raza’ same like today’s Progressive (Youth) and Shabab. Khatna, marriage, death ceremony, etc all were taking place in both the faction. The mosque of Moiyadpura was built by Pali Wala family.

One hundred years after the above incident again there was a bifurcation in Udaipur Bohras – Youth (Progressive) and Shabab.


We can easily infer from the above that presentation of Account Books on demand is the practice of Dawoodi Bohras like practiced by Dai Sayyedina Ismail Badruddin (r.a.) / Sayyedi Khan Ji Pheer (r.a.), Udaipur,.

Dear Sayyedina Burhannuddin sahib,

I as a Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia demand from Sayyedina Burhannuddin sahib Account Books of Zakat – to audit myself if the all Zakat collected was distributed as per Daim-ul-Islam or all Zakat money was siphoned in your/Kothar pocket?


Dear Admin,

I as a member of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras want PDB Account Books for past three years – that should be published on this website – why should not this be made public information? In my capacity as a member of PDB I demand full Ledger/Cash Book details of Engineer Asghar Ali – cash paid to him and/or his expenses reimbursed – To audit if cash paid/reimburse to Engineer is for benefit of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras or for his personal benefit.


Va aakhiro da'vana anil hamdo lillah a rabbil aal'ameen

Admin
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#23

Unread post by Admin » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:48 pm

Mubarak,
Technically you are not a member of PDB. You can be a member of a local jamat and if that jamat is affiliated to CBDBC (Central Board) then you are a member of CBDBC too. As far as we know CBDBC publishes its annual statement of account in the Bohra Chronicle. You can ask Saifuddin Insaf to send you a copy. Udaipur jamat too makes its account public at the annual general meeting and publishes it in a local newsletter. If you're a member of udaipur jamat you can ask them for a copy.

Normally this website does not publish accounts of various organizations, but when you receive the copies of accounts please forward them to us and we'll be happy to publish them for you.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#24

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:08 pm

Admin wrote:Mubarak,
Technically you are not a member of PDB. You can be a member of a local jamat and if that jamat is affiliated to CBDBC (Central Board) then you are a member of CBDBC too. As far as we know CBDBC publishes its annual statement of account in the Bohra Chronicle. You can ask Saifuddin Insaf to send you a copy. Udaipur jamat too makes its account public at the annual general meeting and publishes it in a local newsletter. If you're a member of udaipur jamat you can ask them for a copy.

Normally this website does not publish accounts of various organizations, but when you receive the copies of accounts please forward them to us and we'll be happy to publish them for you.

Hello Admin,

Can you prove how you concluded that I am not “technically” member of PDB?

Thanks for the prompt response; can Mr. S. Insaf be kind enough to email me the Accounts Book of CBDBC for past three years? I am particularly interested in Ledger account of Engineer Asghar - cash paid/expenses reimbursed.

Best regards,

Mubarak

Admin
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#25

Unread post by Admin » Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:51 pm

Mubarak wrote:
Admin wrote: Can you prove how you concluded that I am not “technically” member of PDB?
Because PDB is not an organization. It is a movement, you can be its supporter but not its member. This is a trivial point, and we have nothing more to say on this matter.

jayanti
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#26

Unread post by jayanti » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:44 pm

Mubarak,
They show u who u are.What ever u do for this pdb they will not appreciate.So pls stay with Aqa maula and u will succeed in every path of your life.
Happy Holiday

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#27

Unread post by SBM » Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:54 am

Jayanti Bhen
Then you should ask ShaikhZoher Sailwala who suffered at the hands of Kothari Goons because he asked for a receipt
I am sure he paid handsome SALAAM to become Shaikh.(article on this forum)
Jayanti You suffer for dementia and need to see an Aamil or Shazada to get PHOOK nu PAANI to relieve you of the symptoms

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#28

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:23 am

jayanti wrote:Mubarak,
So pls stay with Aqa maula and u will succeed in every path of your life.
jayanti if u are always with sultan-ul-bawaasir aa-kha maula, then what are u doing here, i mean how come u are leaving aa-kha's side and wasting time here?????

how much they pay u for this napaak duty?

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#29

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:55 am

^
Br. AZ
Jayanti is trying to reform us, and BY DEFINITION, SHE OR HE BECOMES A REFORMIST
There is after all some benefits of Kotharis (regressives) visiting this forum they do want to reform and thus become part of reformists. :lol:

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohras

#30

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:56 pm

omabharti wrote:^
Br. AZ
Jayanti is trying to reform us, and BY DEFINITION, SHE OR HE BECOMES A REFORMIST
There is after all some benefits of Kotharis (regressives) visiting this forum they do want to reform and thus become part of reformists. :lol:
bhai oma,

yr line is thinking is revolutionary. by your definition, the syedna, his family, his employed thugs the amils and all the orthodox bohras should be labelled as "reformists", as they want to reform those who have strayed away and bring them back to become posterior kissers.

so now they are the reformists and we are what...? orthos???? suits me, i am not objecting.