The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

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Mubarak
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#31

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:49 am

Porus bhai,

Very well said.

Thanks.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#32

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:27 am

Yazid, on the other hand, famously insulted the Quran by denying its revelation and was more concerned with avenging the death of his forebears at the hands of Muslims, especially, Ali, than ruling in accordance with Shariat. This is well known, but will be denied by his admirers as another Shia fantasy.
This is something that I am very much interested in. Can you please tell me where this is written cause I have no idea. The reason I ask is because, one, I don't know, and two, it gives you ammunition against people like Zakir Naik. The reason Zakir Naik said "May Allah be pleased with him" for Yazid is because yazid was a sahhabi of the prophet. However, if he insulted the quran and denied its revelation, then he becomes a kafir. Please, give me the proof of what you said so that I can send it to Zakir Naik.

porus
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#33

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:55 am

anajmi wrote: The reason Zakir Naik said "May Allah be pleased with him" for Yazid is because yazid was a sahhabi of the prophet.
This shows anajmi to be a secret admirer of Yazid. Yazid was not a companion of the Prophet. His father, Muawiya, though was. In fact, Yazid was probably born after Prophet had passed away.

As to the proof of whether Yazid denied Quran, I suggest you, anajmi, go to anti-Shia websites and find out how the Shia are hell bent on ruining the reputation of their beloved Yazid. You do not need proof. Your mind is made up.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#34

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:21 am

Actually, that is not correct. I was just having an argument with a friend of mine who said that it is the prophet's hadith that all his Sahabis should be referred to in the same way. I told him that Yazid doesn't belong in that category. But if I have this proof about Yazid denying the quran as you suggest, I could prove my point. I do not admire Yazid and would very much like to have something that I can use against Yazid and show, that in effect he was a kafir. So can you please give tell me where I can get the information about Yazid denying the quran?

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:30 am

And yes you are right. Yazid was born in 645 AD and the prophet died in 632 AD. So Yazid cannot be considered as a Sahaba of the prophet. Can you please clarify these dates as well?

porus
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#36

Unread post by porus » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:46 am

anajmi wrote:I was just having an argument with a friend of mine who said that it is the prophet's hadith that all his Sahabis should be referred to in the same way.
Perhaps you can ask your friend to quote the hadith, say from Sahih Bukhari, and let us know.
anajmi wrote: I do not admire Yazid
Why don't you admire him? Especially, as you think he was a companion of the Prophet, or have you changed your mind about that? Companions like Muawiya, Talha and Zubayr cannot be held in the same category as Ali, Abu Bakr etc because Muhammad had prayed to Allah to be the enemy of those who had enmity for Ali. But then, that also is a Shia fantasy for you. My suspicion that you admire Muawiyah and Yazid is not allayed. You have a good company amongst the Pakistani anti-Shia Wahhabi extremists, some of whom arrange weddings on Ashura and name their sons after Muawiyah and Yazid.
anajmi wrote: So can you please give tell me where I can get the information about Yazid denying the quran?
I suggest you google this: "Was yazid bin muawiyah a kafir?". You will get your anti-shia proof denying that Yazid was a kafir. You will believe it because it confirms your long held notions. You might also get references you are asking about. But you will reject them as Shia fantasies. Thus, it is best that you are ignored by the Shia and continue in your current stance.

mass
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#37

Unread post by mass » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:18 am

i wud like to suggest all yazeed praiser to go through this link.though this link is meant to answer all wahabi nasibi links .i felt we do have some here thats why im posting this link so that one can get comprehansive guide n all answer regerding yazeed laeen.
http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /chap1.php

dua ki talabgaar ur sis "mass"

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:50 am

I am asking for proof that Yazid was a kafir and I am being given proof denying Yazid was a kafir. Are you guys nothing but a bunch of idiots blinded by hatred?
Muhammad had prayed to Allah to be the enemy of those who had enmity for Ali.
You (porus) are also an enemy of Hazrat Ali. Infact you have called all ahle-bait and all prophets and all Imams as liars haven't you? Do you want me to provide proof of that? I have no reason to admire Muawiyah and Yazid. You keep insisting that I do simply because logic is not working for you anymore. You have to now hide behind emotion. Now, I am asking you to show me and others that shia religion is not based entirely on fiction. If you keep beating around the bush, you keep proving my point.

SBM
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#39

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:39 am

shia religion is not based entirely on fiction
Anjami
First of all Shia is not a religion it is one of the 5 Madhabs in Islam
Now Based on the your logic, then all the school of thoughts Hunbli,Shaafi,Maliki are all based on Fiction too.No where Quran describes anything about any schism. It seems you are going too deep into abyss just to prove others wrong. Quran does not even tels you how to pray and that is why every school of thought in Islam has different ways to pray. Nobody is even sure how did Prophet Mohammed (SWT) prayed ;because if you can prove that, then among Sunnis (ahle Sunnat), there has to be a uniform code of Salat prayers and they are not because I do go to different Mosques and I see the differences in Arkans.As a matter of fact during last Eid Salat, there was an argument between two factions of Sunni Madhab about number of Takbirs.
Even Maududi who did not accept Shia as branch of Islam did finally came to conclusion that he was wrong and before his death he accepted Shias as Muslim

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#40

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:02 pm

oma,

I am talking about Yazid and am not interested in shias right now.

JC
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#41

Unread post by JC » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:31 pm

Anajmi,

Since Hussain, whom we all consider to be Right and Just, went against Yazid, to the point that he revolted against Yazid and tried to establish a True Khilafa, and the fact that Yazid killed a person like Hussain, makes Yazid a Kafir..!!!

SBM
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#42

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:37 pm

Anjami
It is you who inserted Shia Religion in your discussion and I was replying to that particular sense. You can not put something and when confronted change the tune. All I am saying is SHIA IS NOT A RELIGION BUT ONE OF THE 5 MADHABS and I think you should retract that sentence. As far as Yazid is concerned I could care less, that is between you and the others.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#43

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:25 pm

oma,

Please don't waste my time.

SBM
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#44

Unread post by SBM » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:50 pm

Anjami
Why because you are a coward.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#45

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:44 pm

JC,

I agree, but porus said that Yazid denied the quran and that is what I am looking for. porus has also denied the quran, and there is enough evidence of that on this board, but I am not suggesting that he is a Yazid sympathizer am I? However, since none of the shias have been able to produce anything valid to prove their point, I am led to believe that Shias invent stories. Don't be surprised, if in a few decades the shia come up with the story that Yazid was born with 666 carved on his head. And when they will be asked to prove it, they will throw a tantrum and then run.

mass
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#46

Unread post by mass » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:59 am

anajmi wrote:JC,

I agree, but porus said that Yazid denied the quran and that is what I am looking for. porus has also denied the quran, and there is enough evidence of that on this board, but I am not suggesting that he is a Yazid sympathizer am I? However, since none of the shias have been able to produce anything valid to prove their point, I am led to believe that Shias invent stories. Don't be surprised, if in a few decades the shia come up with the story that Yazid was born with 666 carved on his head. And when they will be asked to prove it, they will throw a tantrum and then run.


i previously suggest u to see this site .again im requesting u to visit this site.so that atleast u come to know that shia never tells stories.shia as far as i see always implement logical studies.they convence u not only from thr books but also from other schools of thought. thttp://www.answering-ansar.org/is a best example in this regard.

do u think this characteristics of yazeed match the teacing of quran????

We read in Takmeel al Iman page 178 by Shah Abdul Haq Dehlavi:

"How could Yazeed be the Ameer when Imam Husayn was present? How was it a duty to obtain ijma (in this circumstance) when the Sahaba and their children were present at that time and when they had already voiced their opposition to this order? They were aware that he was an enemy of Allah (swt), would drink, did not offer Salat, committed Zina (adultery), he could not even refrain from copulating with his Mahram relatives (incest - having sex with sisters, daughters etc)."

"Traditions inform us that Yazeed loved worldly vices, would drink, listen to music, kept the company of boys with no facial hair [civil expression for paedophilia with boys, a form of homosexuality], played drums, kept dogs [civil expression for bestiality], making frogs, bears and monkeys fight. Every morning he would be intoxicated and would bind monkeys to a horse saddle and make the horse run".
Al Bidayah Wal Nihayah (Urdu), Vol 8 Page 1169, Nafees Academy Karachi
Mu'awiya also knew that Yazeed drank alcohol and commited other sins

Ibn Kathir in his authority work 'Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya' (Urdu) Vol 8 page 1156 "Dhikr Yazeed bin Muawiya" testifies that Muawiyah also knew of Yazeed's drinking and in this regard he advised him through poetry to hide such actibities away from the public glare. Ibn Kathir states:

Yazeed in his youth indulged in alcohol consumption and used to do other things youth would do, and this came to the attention of Mu'awiya who wanted to advise him warmly so he said to him: 'O my son, you do have capability of achieving what you want without disgrace and debasement, which will destroy your youthfulness and value, and will make your enemy happy at your adversity and your friend will treaty you badly'. He then stated: 'O my son, let me recite to you some couplets, try to learn manners from these couplets and memorise them by heart'. Thus, Muawiyah recited:
"Stay all the day long in the pursuance of heights and have patience on the departure of a close mate, until the darkness of night appears and your enemy falls asleep, thus, do whatever you wish to do throughout the night, night is like a day for the wise, there are plenty of Fasiq people whom you deem pious, but they spend their nights committing strange things, night has provided veils to their acts and he has spent the night with calm and pleasure, whilst the wish of a stupid person is of a visible nature."
Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya (Urdu) Vol 8 page 1156 (published by Nafees Academy Karachi)


One who attacks Medina is cursed

We read in Al Bidayah Wal Nihayah (Urdu), Vol 8 Page 1147:

"Rasulullah (s) said whoever perpetuated injustice and frightened the residents of Medina, the curse (la'nat) of Allah (swt), His Angels and all people is on such a person"
Al Bidayah Wal Nihayah (Urdu), Vol 8 Page 1147. Nafees Academy Karachi


Yazeed was a homosexual

Imam Dhahabi records the following words from the sermon of Abdul Malik bin Marwan in 'Tarkeeh Islam' Volume 1 page 634:


ولست بالخليفة المستضعف - يعني عثمان - ولا الخليفة المداهن - يعني معاوية - ولا الخليفة المأبون - يعني يزيد

"I am not weak like Uthman and I am not cunning like Mu'awiya and I am not a homosexual like Yazid"

mass
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#47

Unread post by mass » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:42 am

The opinions of Ahl'ul Sunnah on the kufr and fisq of yazeed la'een

Yazeed bin Mu'awiya's rejection of the Qur'an


http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /chap3.php

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#48

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:50 am

Thank you for the information mass.

porus
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#49

Unread post by porus » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:30 am

Thank you, mass, for providing the link to the answering-ansar website. It calls itself an anti-Nasibi website. Nasibis are extreme Wahhabis who hate panjatan and admire Muawiyah and Yazid.

A Shia’s expression of regard for Ali and Husain enrages Nasibis and they are on a rampage of the murder of the Shia, especially in Pakistan, and bomb their masjids. Their main charge, of course, is the one that anajmi repeats here on this board ad nauseum. That the Shia have invented stories and produced an anti-Muslim religion.

And when I repeated a well-known charge, which hardly any Sunni would reject, that Yazid denied the Quran and Muhammad’s mission as Allah’s messenger, anajmi immediately demanded proof. Every Bohra has known this since childhood, even if he may not know the full history behind it. anajmi says he was brought up as a Bohra but later became a Sunni. But the truth is that he has not become a Sunni but has been duped by extreme Wahhabis.

This is what anajmi wrote on the 9th of Muharrum, the day before Ashura,
However, since none of the shias have been able to produce anything valid to prove their point (that Yazid denied the quran), I am led to believe that Shias invent stories. Don't be surprised, if in a few decades the shia come up with the story that Yazid was born with 666 carved on his head. And when they will be asked to prove it, they will throw a tantrum and then run.
Are these the thoughts of a person who does not admire Yazid? He was asked to search the internet for the proof. He would have found it along with the Nasibi arguments against it. But instead of doing that, he wished that no one would come up and meet his challenge and he can continue his campaign against the Shia. Well, mass came up with one good link. Let us wait. anajmi will probably reject everything on that site as the Shia fabrication too.

Like JC pointed out, murder of Husain is enough to call anyone who perpetrates it, a Kafir. This is Imam Husain we are talking about. Quran has stated that Husain has been ‘purified’. Killing Husain is like killing the Quran.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:57 pm

Actually, the shia have invented stories. porus first blames me for scouring anti-shia web sites and then gives me links to go to anti-wahhabi web sites. Pretty scientific wouldn't you say? You asked me to search for proof that Yazid denied quran and I am still to find it. I ask you one more time, please give me proof that he denied the quran. Do not point me to these web sites. If that is where you got your proof, then you are a bigger idiot than I first thought. Didn't you say that if kids are brought up with some kind of a teaching it doesn't mean that it is right. And now you want me to believe Yazid denied the quran because that is what we are taught as kids? Are you taking all of us for fools?

I stand by what I have said earlier. Don't be surprised, if in a few decades the shia come up with the story that Yazid was born with 666 carved on his head. And when they will be asked to prove it, they will throw a tantrum and then run.

Yazid was a killer and he is hellbound inshaallah, but it does not behoove the shias to invent stories and be allowed to do so. Who knows where this will lead. We can already see how these stories are being used by the corrupt Dai of today.

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#51

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:03 pm

Like JC pointed out, murder of Husain is enough to call anyone who perpetrates it, a Kafir. This is Imam Husain we are talking about. Quran has stated that Husain has been ‘purified’
Yes, and that is what the shias should stick to. Do not invent stories and give ammunition to people like anajmi.
Killing Husain is like killing the Quran.
Now you are playing the emotion card like your corrupt Dai does. The quran is alive and well. No one can kill the quran.

porus
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#52

Unread post by porus » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:33 am

porus wrote:He (anajmi) was asked to search the internet for the proof. He would have found it along with the Nasibi arguments against it. But instead of doing that, he wished that no one would come up and meet his challenge and he can continue his campaign against the Shia. Well, mass came up with one good link. Let us wait. anajmi will probably reject everything on that site as the Shia fabrication too.
We are citing Tadhkira, Maqathil and Shazarath al Dhabah. This is also found in the Arabic (non-Leiden) version of the History of Al-Tabari:

When the head of Husayn (as), the grandson of the Holy prophet (saws), was presented before Yazeed he recited the couplets of the kaafir Zubayri:

"Banu Hashim staged a play for Kingdom. There was no news from the skies neither was there any revelation"

We have proven from the sources of Ahl'ul Sunnah that Yazeed rejected the concept of revelation; rather he deemed all this a stage for power by Rasulullah (s). This proves that Yazeed was a kaafir, so what right do these Nasibi have to extol Yazeed, deem him to to the rightful Khalifah over the Muslims and Ameer'ul Momineen?

In Tafseer Ruh al Maani it is stated clearly:

"Yazeed the impure denied the Prophethood of Rasulullah (s). The treatment that he meted out to the people of Makka, Medina and the family of the Prophet proves that he was a kaafir".


The problem is Sunni Islam accepts as a khalifa (literally 'successor' to the Prophet (saws)) a man who clearly did not believe in the Qur'an and instead believed the Holy Prophet (saws) was a fraud.

makberi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#53

Unread post by makberi » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:36 am

Bro Porus, on a completely different issue.....

In one Shia sermon on youtube i heard the speaker said tht Moula Ali had said tht he wud exchange 10 men from his army for one man in Mauwiya's army because of their dedication towards Mauwiya(sorry its not the exact quote)....wat i dont understand is the lack of dedication, which the quote points out, among shias in those days....can u explain the reason for this??

anajmi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#54

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:44 am

porus,

Now see, wasn't that simple? Instead of going through all that drama, you should've stated this as a response to my very first post. Now coming to a different perspective, you have claimed that the prophet is a fraud too. Haven't you?

Aarif
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#55

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:40 pm

. Abu Bakr was an upright Muslim until the day the Prophet died.
I agree with this. Even historians say the same about him. He actually disobeyed prophet(pbuh) just before his death and stayed back so that he can contend for khilafat. Most of the historians call him an opportunist for that. On his death bed he elected Omar as his successor. Most of the people were against his decision but since, he was the khalifa they complied unwillingly.

JC: In the past also I have mentioned that relationships can change over a period of time. People can be friends today and enemies tomorrow. I am working with a team of people right now and I do not like couple of them. However, I give them full co-operation and they do the same when it comes to work. Nobody really knows what transpired during that era. If shias are speculating than so are sunnis. Hence, please stop asking these same rotten questions again and again in every second thread and spreading hatred and fitnat.

ozmujaheed
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#56

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm

A ...can you tell us which historian stated
He actually disobeyed prophet(pbuh) just before his death

Haggi
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#57

Unread post by Haggi » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:46 pm

S.Insafbhai,
Your quote from Goethe,
“Not everything that history offers us has actually happened. And what has actually happened has not happened the way it is presented to us, and what we know to have happened is only a very small part of what actually happened. The historian can have no more information about the past events than what has been handed down to him as source-material.”
was superb.
I have always believed this to be true for history but was not familiar with this utterance by Goethe which rings so true. Thanks for bringing it up.
Wish humanity was capable of comprehending this thought much more than often. It would help take away all the conflicts in this world due to the result of deviating histories, may it be of religious differences or conflicts between countries due to misrecording of history, both by the victor and the vanquished, intentionally or unintentional.
Just food for thought what do you think of man's life to his beliefs or why of them : " the idea that a man's supposedly objective belief are so often a product of his own needs".
This was by Nietzsche, a fellow German.
Regards,
Haggi.

Mubarak
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#58

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:29 am

ozmujaheed wrote:A ...can you tell us which historian stated
He actually disobeyed prophet(pbuh) just before his death
Book name: Daim-ul-Islam (Part I)
Author name: Molana Sayyedina Kazi Noman (r.a.)
Authenticated by: Molana Sayyedina Imam Moiz (a.s.)
Unit Name: Valayat
Chapter Name: Masle Imamat
Location: 13th paragraph (approximately)
Further location identification: After Quran verse: “Wa’ma atakumur Rasoolo fakhuzhuho wa’ma nahakum anho fantahu” (28-59/7)

Hussain_KSA
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#59

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:28 am

Brother Mubarak

Dai ul Islam is not a history book and Qazi Noman was not historian. This book contain jurisprudence and sharia of Ismaili Sect.

No details about Karbla mentioned in that book which is major tragedy of Islam.

Mubarak
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Re: The Factors - Characters leading to the tragedy of Karbala

#60

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:02 am

Hussain_KSA wrote:Brother Mubarak

Daim ul Islam is not history book and Qazi Noman was not historian. This book contain jurisprudence and sharia of Ismaili Sect.

No details about Karbla mentioned in that book which is major tragedy of Islam.

Aarif wrote: He (Abu Baker) actually disobeyed prophet(pbuh) just before his death and stayed back so that he can contend for khilafat.

Oz mujaheed asked source.

I am quoting him Imam Moiz (a.s.) authenticated book as source.