Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:52 pm

*Bhagwan Satya Sai: Faith Marginalizes Reason*

*Ram Puniyani*

The death of Satya Sai Baba, April 24th 2011, has created a big turmoil, not only amongst his followers but also amongst those who had more mundane things to look after, like law and order, visit of VVIP’s to Puthaparthi etc. Bhajans (devotional songs) to mourn his death are being held all over in the country and abroad. A large number of those belonging to the list of ‘Who is who’ of the political, business world, and all those who matter in the country are already there to death of the God. In addition ‘who will inherit his vast empire’, created singlehandedly out of no where, the way he used to ‘create’ Vibhuti, gold chains etc. from the thin air is another issue haunting those concerned.


Undoubtedly Bhagwan (God) Sai must have been the God man with a very large following and probably largest wealth amongst the leading Godmen. The latter can not be confirmed, as large part of the wealth controlled by those
presented as divine beings, is not known for various reasons. Not only that one does not know if any body can dare to think that Lok Pal type auditing of the wealth of these *renunciators* of Worldly goods should also be thought of. Such Godmen do demonstrate that you get more when you know how to ‘renounce’ the World, and of course part of the earnings are put as a part of social service, which is made prominently visible part of activities of these men of God.


Bhagwan’s life is mired with multiple controversies and there are many a dilemmas in understanding him. He was expert in the tricks of Vibhuti production from air and also production of gold chains as well. Earlier he was also ‘producing’ HMT watches, but that was stopped soon enough as the watches carry the date of manufacture on them. Many a rationalists confronted him by and replicated his tricks and even took out yatras to demonstrate that there is nothing divine about such tricks. They are but clever maneuvers of hand and even magician of repute P.C. Sarkar also challenged the divine nature of these acts. Interestingly he was challenged to produce things like pumpkin, which he refused to do for obvious reasons.


Notwithstanding that his followers were undeterred and the number of his followers cutting across different spheres of life kept swelling. He had proclaimed that he is reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. As an aside, the transformation of Shirdi Sai to present level of opulent divinity is a phenomenon in itself as Shirdi Sai had lived a Spartan life under the tree with no material wealth to his credit and currently his idol sits on a Golden throne.


This self proclaimed reincarnation of Shirdi Sai not only must be sitting over one of the wealthiest empires but also went on to proclaim to be a God himself and also prophesied that he will leave this physical body at the age of 96 years. Unfortunately the physical body could not be saved beyond the age of 85 years. Bhagwan who has saved so many lives through divine powers was to be put on ventilators for survival for quite some time and he could not be made to live his prophesy.


The remarkable thing about Bhagwan Sai is that he survived many controversies associated with his life. He was charged with Pedophilia, sexual abuse by various sources but such mundane things could not shake the firm faith of ever expanding tribe of followers at home and abroad. Tom Brooke’s book (Avatar of the Night: Hidden Side of Sai Baba) described his own experience. Similarly sexual abuse of young male devotees on the pretext of yogic technique of ‘Kundalini raising’ also came to light. There was also a case of murder in his living quarters to which Bhagwan himself was a witness, but it was not investigated beyond a point as worldly laws probably don’t reach in the realm of spiritual world. The ties of Bhagwan with the one’s at the topmost echelons every time ensured that the matters are not pursued, be it the expose’ of his tricks or the cases of murder in his living quarters, all were ignored and soon forgotten from public memory.


To be fair to him, Bhagwan Sai is not the first one to proclaim himself as God. There have been the likes of Rajneesh, who for example began his Godly career from Acharya Rajneesh, promoted to Bhagwan Rajneesh and then attained
the status of Osho.


After the death of Bhagwan all those who matter in the echelons of power are making a beeline to visit his mortal remains. One does not know whether these visits by the state functionaries are official or personal, one does not know whether such distinctions are any longer valid in our country, where the Constitution does permit us to practice and preach our faith at personal level but not at political level. State visits to such events in official capacity should be a strict no no. Our Constitution does direct us to promote rational thought; but that again remains ignored as all the
rationalists like Abraham Kovoor or Premanand were totally by passed by the mainstream power centers and the issues raised by them remained unanswered and unattended to. There are a couple of films questioning Bhagwan’s claims and also accusing him of sexual abuse, ‘Guru Busters’ and ‘Secret Swami’ are couple of such films.


Some one interestingly remarked that there are two types of politicians who visit the Bhagwan. First are those who are corrupt and want to hide their sin, and second are those who are sincere and work with the first lot. That apart, the impact of such Baba’s, has been a major accompaniment of the politics in the name of religion. This is an era, where the waves of faith are trying to drown the boat of reason, with due support from the incompetent boatman, in the form of state power. The tempest of faith is becoming so overwhelmingly powerful that even raising the questions against
these God man is becoming difficult, else how does one explain that a person calls himself God, does tricks which magicians can replicate with ease and is able to collect huge wealth, part of which is showcased as the charity work. One also knows that to expose the prevalent blind faith is swimming against the tide.


One also concedes that these are also the times when the existential anxiety of a section of population forces them to resort to some support system. In the decades of 1970s it was LSD, now it is the ever proliferating posse of God men. Sai’s prediction about his future reincarnations will be a matter of great interest and curiosity, how the God will resurface and how his followers will recognize and worship his new reincarnation will unfold over a period of time. Meanwhile one hopes that some semblance of reason is brought forth while dealing with the innumerable Godmen, flourishing all around like mushrooms.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#2

Unread post by Smart » Sun May 01, 2011 2:33 am

How can Sai Baba be compared to Syedna MB?

The former is bigger by two orders of magnitude. He has almost 60 million followers and all this has been collected in his lifetime. The latter has only 0.6 million followers and they have been collected (trapped) over generation. The present Syedna has not even brought 60 thousand followers in the daawat. Many, almost 2 million have left him and gone.

Kahaan Raja Bhoj aur Kahaan Gangu teli!!!

The fact remains that both of them have gullible people treating them as "Bhagwan" / "Ilahul Ardh".

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#3

Unread post by seeker110 » Sun May 01, 2011 10:49 am

Three out of two abdes dont understand statistics.

SBM
Posts: 6508
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#4

Unread post by SBM » Sun May 01, 2011 12:36 pm

Three out of two abdes dont understand statistics.
:D :P :)

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#5

Unread post by profastian » Mon May 02, 2011 2:01 am

seeker110 wrote:Three out of two abdes dont understand statistics.
That just shows how well you understand statistics :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#6

Unread post by stranger » Mon May 02, 2011 2:44 am

seeker110 wrote:Three out of two abdes dont understand statistics.
statistics badnaam hui, seeker110 tere liye :mrgreen:

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#7

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue May 03, 2011 8:50 pm

Br. Profast. and br.Stranger, See if you can understand this one"6/7 of the dwarfs is not Happy".

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#8

Unread post by stranger » Wed May 04, 2011 5:58 am

seeker110 wrote:Br. Profast. and br.Stranger, See if you can understand this one"6/7 of the dwarfs is not Happy".
Wait man, we are still trying to understand Three out of two :mrgreen:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed May 04, 2011 6:23 pm

India would have been a better place without Sathya Sai Baba

When Sathya Sai Baba died on 24 April 2011 at the age of 85 years, he proved once again that miracles and predictions fail. He had predicted at a public gathering at his head quarters in Puttaparthy, in 2000, and repeatedly many times, that he would die at the age of 96 only. And till the last moment, many of his devotees clung to his word and waited for a miracle. May it be an eye opener for the millions of gullible people whom he misguided and deluded.

due to his political protectors he was never held responsible for his crimes against public reason. Nor was he ever booked for any other crime he was accused of. Numerous cases of alleged sexual abuse and murder are yet to be investigated, not to mention the financial secrets of his empire.

Sathya Sai Baba insisted in all seriousness that he was god, the creator of the universe, and “proved” his divinity with a couple of small “miracles”.However, he did not only fascinate poor and uneducated villagers with his fraudulent performances. Over the years, he managed to attract a galaxy of India’s rich and powerful, among them ministers, prime ministers, presidents, chief justices, top industrialists and superstars.

Sathya Sai Baba had a special modus operandi that was the key for his astonishing success and the root of his enormous clout. Many of his high society devotees came to serve their own vested interests. Some came to rub shoulders with the prominent. Many joined the club because it was working as a powerful syndicate spreading its tentacles all over the political system.

In fact, the huge foreign donations to Sai Baba stood in contrast to the comparatively modest number of active foreign devotees and the sometimes quite weak foreign branches, some of them residing in private homes. That is no great surprise, when one considers that Sai Baba did not speak any other language than Telugu and traveled only once in his whole life abroad – to visit his friend Idi Amin in Uganda.

he then spent a part of the great fortunes, swindled out of the gullible, for social development around his ancestral village, is highlighted now to present him as a saint. But, useful and welcome as hospitals, schools and drinking water projects for the poor may always be, this kind of alibi-philanthropy is well-known even to mafia-bosses. It cannot be weighed against his crimes and the damage he has done to the Indian society.

It is a shame for India that well-founded accusations and numerous reputed witnesses against Sai Baba are ignored without any investigation. Do saffron clothes make an offender untouchable for the law? Do we have to tolerate that political protectionism raises its head so boldly, mocking India's democracy?

Sathya Sai Baba caused great damage to India. His irresponsible political patrons corrupted the political culture of India. Encouraged by the clout of Sathya Sai Baba, a new clan of miracle mongers imitated him. India would have been a better place without Sathya Sai Baba.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/2547/india-wo ... a-sai-baba

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#10

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed May 04, 2011 6:59 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote: to visit his friend Idi Amin in Uganda.
This makes me wonder, if any of the Syedna from the dawoodi hindu bohra clan had contact with Idi Amin :roll: ??

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#11

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed May 04, 2011 7:17 pm

BooM wrote:This makes me wonder, if any of the Syedna from the dawoodi hindu bohra clan had contact with Idi Amin ??
This could be highly possible, when the dai can hobnob with the butcher of muslims then no surprise if he had cordial relations with the cannibal idi Amin and moreover he was the leader of an african country where wildlife is abundant and we very well know the dai's passion for hunting wild animals and for which contacts at the higher ups are quite essential.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#12

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed May 04, 2011 8:52 pm

Maybe they were only penpals :mrgreen: & the dai was not a good diplomat at that time, otherwise Idide would have spared the bohras, which he didn't..

bohra_manus
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#13

Unread post by bohra_manus » Sat May 07, 2011 11:58 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:India would have been a better place without Sathya Sai Baba

When Sathya Sai Baba died on 24 April 2011 at the age of 85 years, he proved once again that miracles and predictions fail. He had predicted at a public gathering at his head quarters in Puttaparthy, in 2000, and repeatedly many times, that he would die at the age of 96 only. And till the last moment, many of his devotees clung to his word and waited for a miracle. May it be an eye opener for the millions of gullible people whom he misguided and deluded.

due to his political protectors he was never held responsible for his crimes against public reason. Nor was he ever booked for any other crime he was accused of. Numerous cases of alleged sexual abuse and murder are yet to be investigated, not to mention the financial secrets of his empire.

Sathya Sai Baba insisted in all seriousness that he was god, the creator of the universe, and “proved” his divinity with a couple of small “miracles”.However, he did not only fascinate poor and uneducated villagers with his fraudulent performances. Over the years, he managed to attract a galaxy of India’s rich and powerful, among them ministers, prime ministers, presidents, chief justices, top industrialists and superstars.

Sathya Sai Baba had a special modus operandi that was the key for his astonishing success and the root of his enormous clout. Many of his high society devotees came to serve their own vested interests. Some came to rub shoulders with the prominent. Many joined the club because it was working as a powerful syndicate spreading its tentacles all over the political system.

In fact, the huge foreign donations to Sai Baba stood in contrast to the comparatively modest number of active foreign devotees and the sometimes quite weak foreign branches, some of them residing in private homes. That is no great surprise, when one considers that Sai Baba did not speak any other language than Telugu and traveled only once in his whole life abroad – to visit his friend Idi Amin in Uganda.

he then spent a part of the great fortunes, swindled out of the gullible, for social development around his ancestral village, is highlighted now to present him as a saint. But, useful and welcome as hospitals, schools and drinking water projects for the poor may always be, this kind of alibi-philanthropy is well-known even to mafia-bosses. It cannot be weighed against his crimes and the damage he has done to the Indian society.

It is a shame for India that well-founded accusations and numerous reputed witnesses against Sai Baba are ignored without any investigation. Do saffron clothes make an offender untouchable for the law? Do we have to tolerate that political protectionism raises its head so boldly, mocking India's democracy?

Sathya Sai Baba caused great damage to India. His irresponsible political patrons corrupted the political culture of India. Encouraged by the clout of Sathya Sai Baba, a new clan of miracle mongers imitated him. India would have been a better place without Sathya Sai Baba.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/2547/india-wo ... a-sai-baba
Hmmm, interesting similarities with current DB religious authorities.
Here are a few to name:
Fake miracles
Collecting immense wealth from the followers
Hobnobbing with politicians, government officials
Running some charity projects with questionable management (schools, hospital, building homes for poor bohras)

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Sat May 07, 2011 6:38 pm

Its the same product just different brands.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat May 07, 2011 6:43 pm

One more interesting similarity...... the battle for succession of the Sai baba trust is brewing up and there are already 3 hot contenders eyeing the Rs.50,000 crores trust.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Burhanuddin Saab ALIAS Satya Sai Baba.

#16

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon May 16, 2011 4:06 pm

bohra_manus wrote:Hmmm, interesting similarities with current DB religious authorities.

Here are a few to name:

Fake miracles

Collecting immense wealth from the followers

Hobnobbing with politicians, government officials

Running some charity projects with questionable management (schools, hospital, building homes for poor bohras)
The phenomenon of Satya Sai Baba*

By PUSHPA M. BHARGAVA

As the dust after the death of Satya Sai Baba has largely settled, it is time to evaluate him, his work and its implications, objectively and unemotionally, for there is a good deal to be learnt from his life and death.

His rise to fame from an ordinary, even humble background, was based on (i ) his claim that he was the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba ; (ii) his claim that he represented divinity, that is, God himself ; (iii) that, consequently, he had powers that no mortal man had ; (iv) that he could provide succour and mental peace to people who came to him with problems of various kinds ; and (v) that he engaged himself in charitable works like opening hospitals and providing potable water to villagers.

Let us examine his above claims and actions one by one. There is not a shred of evidence of rebirth; the very idea of rebirth goes against all of science. Every claimed case of rebirth that has been investigated has been shown to be fake.

As regards his being a reincarnation of God, the only proof he provided was that of performing miracles or miraculous acts. The fact is that he never performed a miracle. In fact, no miracle has ever been performed by any one. All miracles attributed to religious leaders are inventions of the clergy. An example would be that of Mother Teresa whom I met and who never claimed to have performed a miracle in her lifetime. But for her to be canonized after her death two miracles had to be — and were — invented and attributed to her. Every single act of Sai Baba that was a miracle in the public eye could be performed by ordinary magicians.

My colleague at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology at Hyderabad, Dr. M. W. Pandit, performed them publicly. So did the well-known rationalist, the late Premanand. Invite Dr. Narendra Nayak by sending an e.mail to <narenyen@gmail.com> and he will come and perform for you every miracle that Sai Baba ever claimed to have performed — be it producing a ring or a Japanese watch or sacred ash from nowhere, or his photograph shedding sacred ash.

As regards the miraculous cures he claimed to have performed, we never heard of his failures. A distant cousin of mine had her young son suffering from an incurable disease. Sai Baba who blessed him said he would be cured. When she went back to him after the child's death, Sai Baba told her that he felt it was best for the child to come to him and that is what he caused to happen; so there was no reason for worry.

The cures that may have been effected were never established to be directly on account of Sai Baba's 'divine' intervention. They were probably natural or psychosomatic, of which numerous examples are known. After all, what do
neuropsychologists or psychiatrists do? That is why he never allowed rationalists like Professor Narasimhaiah, former Vice-Chancellor of Bangalore University, or Premanand, to come anywhere near him. It is believed that it were his men who actually once beat up Narasimhaiah.

The late Dr. Y. Nayudamma, the former Director-General of CSIR, who died in an Air India crash near Canada years ago, told me of his visit to Sai Baba with a once ardent follower, Dr. S. Bhagavantam, a former Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister. Nayudamma stood in front of Sai Baba with folded hands and most respectfully, requested him to produce a blade of grass between his palms. That would have been a miracle. But, instead, Nayudamma had to leave.

As regards his acts of charity, there are innumerable people in the country who engage in such acts to avoid undue attention focussed on their ill-gotten wealth. Accounting of his enormous wealth has never been transparent.

Sai Baba's unusual accomplishment was to recruit such a large number of the rich and the powerful, politicians and bureaucrats, law-makers, law-keepers, and law dispensers, amongst his followers. Perhaps this is more of a
reflection on his followers than him!

Sai Baba's death was not a national tragedy. The national tragedy was his being given a state funeral, a state of official mourning being declared, and the country's political leaders — cutting across parties, including the Prime Minister and the Chairman of the NAC — spending precious time and resources to have his last darshan, relegating to the background the nation's constitutional commitment to a scientific temper.

(The writer is a former Vice-Chairman, National Knowledge Commission, former member, National Security Advisory Board and former founder and Director, Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad. His email is:
bhargava.pm @gmail.com)

**

© Copyright 2000 - 2009 The Hindu