The True Imam - How would you verify?

[AliRahbar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

I can understand ur frustration, even if i was at ur place and If i was kicked out of such wonderful community I would have behaved in the same way.I would have lose my mental balance same way u have lost it.

my condolence to you.

[Humsafar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

anajmi, this is so true. It is really fun to watch this progticide raise a paper tiger, shoot it with his toy gun and then jump and down celebrating his victory. Not different from his masters who go into the "fateh mubin" mode everytime they face defeat.

[AliRahbar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

anajmi, this is so true. It is really fun to watch this progticide raise a paper tiger, shoot it with his toy gun and then jump and down celebrating his victory. Not different from his masters who go into the "fateh mubin" mode everytime they face defeat.

defeat?

which defeat are u talking about?

syedna won 27 hard core cases against the fanatics, and every day he is winning some thing, while progs are still whinning to win a small case in udaipur, i posted some comments on that thread but as usual admin deleted it, before any one can read it.

so we all know who is tryint to save there ass.....just shut the crap and crawl back to rock where u come from ROFL.

[AliRahbar]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5685
cant even win such a easy clear case?

shame on you.

[Adam]

The shia interpretation is wrong according to the Quran itself. There is no need to interpret that which is absolutely clear in the Quran. The Quran itself has given us the interpretation of "Imam" to mean a "Kitaab". Every other interpretation can be thrown in the garbage dump.

So you claim the Sunni interpretation is right? How so? You can't deny that the Sunni s are in fact interpreting the Quran.
For example و ما كان الله ليضيع ايمانكم where the word "Iman" according to Shia AND Sunni interpretation means "Salat/Namaz". Therefore, the Quran has been interpreted, and it needs to be, in order to understand it. That's what's called "Tafseer". Each Tafseer follows their own agenda, right or wrong. And when there is confusion (which there always is) the Quran has very simply said to ask the Ahl al Zikr when you don't know. فاسئلوا اهل الذكر ان كنتم لا تعلمون
- If the Quran in fact wanted to talk about a physical Book, why didn't it just say كتاب مبين in this specific Ayat?

It's all about Authority. We follow ours, you stick to your awesome Imam in the Masjid.

[anajmi]

So you claim the Sunni interpretation is right?

As I have demonstrated, through ayahs of the Quran, that the Sunni interpretation is in line with the Quran. Actually, there is no interpretation required because the Quran makes it completely clear beyond any doubt.

And when there is confusion (which there always is)

Actually, the confusion is created by people to further their own agenda. For eg. your Dai creates this confusion to promote himself as an infallible. Otherwise the Quran is pretty clear.

why didn't it just say كتاب مبين in this specific Ayat?

The best way to understand the Quran is through the Quran itself. Some ayahs of the Quran are explained by other ayahs of the Quran. Why Allah didn't say something somewhere is not for me to question. When you read those two ayahs of the Quran, it becomes pretty clear ("mubin"), that it is referring to a book.

the Quran has very simply said to ask the Ahl al Zikr when you don't know.

When you don't know!!! But here in this particular case, we do know. The Quran makes it pretty clear. Besides, the ahl al zikr that you refer to, has created this confusion in the first place. I would ditch this ahl al zikr and find someone better.

[progticide]

The most active respondent on this topic from the proggy brigade is Anajmi. What bigger irony could there be? Anajmi is debating on a topic of Imam's identity verification.

Does it still require further proof that the progressive scholars have lost this debate miserably. Indeed, the prog movement is a farce.

[humanbeing]

Hi Adam / Progiticide


What is your public opinion on question expressed here….


What exactly is the objection / apprehension with providing Accounts of Funds ?


By what justification / logic / reason…. presenting accounts is to undermine authority of sayedna saheb ?

[progticide]

Are Bhai, koi proggy bacha hai bhai!!!

Porus - Dont know where he is hiding? Maybe still surfing through the vast collection of Fatimi literature in his possession to find out the appropriate response to the above questions.

Doctor Mubarak - Replies on the PM, but when I ask him to post his answer on the forum, he chicken's out.

S Insaf - Probably singing somewhere "Teri duniya se hoke majboor chala" after witnessing the pathetic performance of his proggy counterparts on this topic

[profastian]

Are Bhai, koi proggy bacha hai bhai!!!

Porus - Dont know where he is hiding? Maybe still surfing through the vast collection of Fatimi literature in his possession to find out the appropriate response to the above questions.

Doctor Mubarak - Replies on the PM, but when I ask him to post his answer on the forum, he chicken's out.

S Insaf - Probably singing somewhere "Teri duniya se hoke majboor chala" after witnessing the pathetic performance of his proggy counterparts on this topic

Hasn't Doctor Mubarak replied already. He has the foolproof test of conversation in all 'ancient and exotic languages'

[anajmi]

Actually, I don't understand the point. The uselessness of the Dai was proven beyond any doubt on the very first page of this topic. The misinterpretation of the Quran by the Dai to fool the abdes was demonstrated on the fourth page. The case is now closed. I do not think serving your bruised ego serves any purpose on this thread. Let us move onto the next one now.

[Humsafar]

anajmi, don't deprive him of his little game. He loves shooting paper tigers with toy guns. And his other abde brother, Adam, he loves shooting paper dinosaurs (auhtority, source, beliefs etc.). This is the only game they know and it thrills them to bits when they play it. Let the little boys have their fun. Given their dismal life filled with matam, wajebat and idol worhip we should not grudge them their little outing in the Freedom Park!!!

[Adam]

Actually, there is no interpretation required because the Quran makes it completely clear beyond any doubt.

Well, the Quran does say "Imam" and not "Kitab" so, we need to ask Ahl Al Zikr for the correct Tafseer.

You don't have any Ahl al Zikr, so you have no one to go to. Sad story.

[SBM]

Actually, there is no interpretation required because the Quran makes it completely clear beyond any doubt.

Well, the Quran does say "Imam" and not "Kitab" so, we need to ask Ahl Al Zikr for the correct Tafseer.

You don't have any Ahl al Zikr, so you have no one to go to. Sad story.

No Adam, we as Muslims have lot of Ahl Al Zikr Sadly Abde Regressives only have one, the one who needs the help of his Diwan to turn the pages.sorry to put it bluntly.

[anajmi]

Well, the Quran does say "Imam" and not "Kitab" so, we need to ask Ahl Al Zikr for the correct Tafseer.

وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ كِتَابًا (78:29

Nothing could be more clear. Thank you. Your Ahl Al Zikr has confused you.

[Adam]

Nothing could be more clear. Thank you.

Nope, still isn't.

1. Why didn't that specific ayat say "Kitab e Mobeen", instead of "Imam"
2. وكل شيئ احصيناه كتابا - According to you, it says "Kitab", which "Book" is that?
The Quran or the Book of deeds.
The verse doesn't specify, you'll need to refer to the Tafseer, and follow one particular argument.
It all comes down to authority.

Your Ahl Al Zikr has confused you.

Nope, its crystal clear to me. You don't have one.
Anyway, who is your Ahl al Zikr? (Your mosque Imam)
Or do you think the Quran ordered you to ask someone that doesn't exist?

Sad story

[anajmi]

Nope, still isn't.

It will never be for you. Allah gives hidaya to whomever he chooses and you have been chosen to remain confused.

Why didn't that specific ayat say "Kitab e Mobeen", instead of "Imam"

For the sake of emphasis. Besides, it doesn't matter cause what this ayah says is explained by the other ayah. Also, take a look at Muslim First's posting on the other thread. Not that it will become clear for you, cause you have been chosen to remain ignorant.

2. وكل شيئ احصيناه كتابا - According to you, it says "Kitab", which "Book" is that?
The Quran or the Book of deeds.

The question displays your ignorance about the Quran as well as book of deeds. Both are a part of a bigger book. Go talk to your Dai and see if he can tell you the answer. If not, then come to me!! I will give you the answer from the Quran. I cannot guarantee that it will clear your confusion, because undoing what the Dai has done to you might take a lot of work.

Nope, its crystal clear to me.

and earlier you said

Nope, still isn't.

I was right on the mark when I said that your ahl al zikr has confused the heck out of you.

It all comes down to authority.

Unfortunately for you, the authority you have chosen has confused you so much that you now do not understand even a language that you do understand. May Allah protect us all from such false authority!!

[progticide]

Anajmi,
If you ever went to a school, do you remember how many times did you get thrown out of the class for your nonsense of calling your Class Teacher a Conductor?

If you didnt call a Class Teacher a Conductor, or a Doctor a Watchman, then which idiot taught you to translate Imam as Kitab.

For all you know, you may be calling your own father "Uncle".

[mustafanalwalla]

AliRahbar, will you for God's sake mind your language!!!

We have had enough of your shenanigans here. Please go back to the site that you created dawood-bohra.com/lefora and stay there.

You are giving us a bad name here. please leave us alone!!!

[mustafanalwalla]

i did not want to say this to you AliRahbar, but i think it is time for you to crawl back under the rock that you came from

[mustafanalwalla]

You claim to be one of us but you are not. You are a twisted, evil, manipulative man.

Anajmi for all his flaws atleast stands by his beliefs.

He does not claim to be a Sunni Muslim, only to erode it away from within by casting Sunnis' in bad light..

[Adam]

The question displays your ignorance about the Quran as well as book of deeds. Both are a part of a bigger book.

Which books is this? (you might be referring to the لوح محفوظ )
If it were this book your referring to, why did the Quran just say "Kitab" and not refer exactly to it? في لوح مبين or something like that.
Now according to you we have 3 books. The Quran, the book of deeds and the "bigger book"
How did YOU (without any authority or Ahl al Zikr) decide that the word "Kitab" in this ayat refers specifically to the "bigger book". (Did the ayat refer you to the other ayat and tell you to look it up there?)

Every word "Kitab" means a different book? How are we to know the difference?

Concluding, for each idea that you generate, you have followed an Authority on the Quran (a Tafseer, Ahl al Zikr), so it all comes down to Authority and who it is. (Imam of your local Mosque?)

I agree with Progticide:

If you didnt call a Class Teacher a Conductor, or a Doctor a Watchman, then which idiot taught you to translate Imam as Kitab.

Anyway, who is your Ahl al Zikr? (Your mosque Imam)
Or do you think the Quran ordered you to ask someone that doesn't exist?

Sad story

[anajmi]

then which idiot taught you to translate Imam as Kitab.

It is a pity that you idol worshippers are now calling even Allah himself names. Shame on you. Your conversion into kuffars is complete. Allah himself has taught me this in the Quran in Surah 78 ayah number 29 and numerous other related ayahs.

If it were this book your referring to, why did the Quran just say "Kitab" and not refer exactly to it? في لوح مبين or something like that.

Atleast we now agree that the Quran is referring to a book. Thank you for accepting that. Even in 36:12, Allah uses the word "wanaktubu". You cannot write in a "clear human Imam" can you? But you can write in a "clear book Imam". So you see, your Ahl Al Zikr has confused you.

Now according to you we have 3 books.

hmmm, if we can have dozens of Imams and tens of Dais, why can't we have three books?? Infact we have more than 3 books mentioned in the Quran. We have the Zaboor, the Taurat and the Injeel as well.

How did YOU (without any authority or Ahl al Zikr) decide that the word "Kitab" in this ayat refers specifically to the "bigger book". (Did the ayat refer you to the other ayat and tell you to look it up there?)

I didn't decide anything. The Quran itself is pretty clear. The book referred to in this ayah is the book of records and not the "bigger book". The book of records and all other books are a part of the "bigger book". Hasn't your ahl al zikr taught you anything? Not that I trust him to teach you anything that may actually benefit you in the hereafter!!

Every word "Kitab" means a different book? How are we to know the difference?

You should try and understand the Quran instead of doing maatam and singing ghanoo jeevo all the time. That way you will know which book is referred to and when.

I agree with Progticide:

That is the problem. If people like this idiot are your ahl al zikr then may Allah have mercy on you.

[anajmi]

It is unfortunate, but I have to conclude that the entire community of abde idiots has been chosen by Allah to remain ignorant of the Quran. That is the reason why they are unable to understand even the most straight forward ayahs of the Quran and they have to go to this Ahl Al Zikr who is taking them for a ride. So it won't matter how many times or in how many different ways I explain it, they will remain ignorant.

Hence, on this thread, I will leave them alone, those who choose to remain ignorant!!

[Muslim First]

Adam

Please read this

Imamah in Qur’an
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7135

[Adam]

Twisting facts again and again.

Anyway, who is YOUR Ahl al Zikr? (Your mosque Imam)
Or do you think the Quran ordered you to ask someone that doesn't exist?

[Adam]

) لا تجد قوما يؤمنون بالله واليوم الآخر يوادون من حاد الله ورسوله ولو كانوا آباءهم أو ابناءهم أو اخوانهم أو عشيرتهم اولئك كتب في قلوبهم الايمان وايدهم بروح منه
Mujadilah 22

If you can "write" on the heart, you can gather/collect/write in the "Imam".

Which bigger book are you referring to?
What about the Ahl al Zikr please

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

i have asked you this question several times, but you run away and hide like the coward you are.

if the true imam, who will verify himself, appears and declares that the reformists are his true followers and the dai and his abde regressives as kafirs and mushriqs, then will people like you abandon your dai and join the true followers, or abandon the true imam?

none of your usual lame excuses please...

[progticide]

Anajmi,
Read the following verses of the Holy Quran carefully and all the available translations with you of these verses, and then ask your Ahl Al Zikr how does he translate the word "Imam" with "Book" mentioned in these verses. Try replacing the word Imam with Book yourself in these verses and see if it makes any sense at all:

Holy Quran, Surah Al Baqarah (2:124)
Holy Quran, Surah Alanbiya (21:73)
Holy Quran, Surah AlSajdah (32:24)
Holy Quran, Surah Al Qasas (28:41)

Do not respond until you have completed the above activity.

[mustafanalwalla]

adam,

i have asked you this question several times, but you run away and hide like the coward you are.

if the true imam, who will verify himself, appears and declares that the reformists are his true followers and the dai and his abde regressives as kafirs and mushriqs, then will people like you abandon your dai and join the true followers, or abandon the true imam?

none of your usual lame excuses please...

I have a question.

Who will verify if this Imam is the true one? I intend no sarcasm but am asking out of genuine curiosity!

Will this Imam bring a letter hand-written by God? Will this Imam predict the future or perform mircales? Will this Imam come with a testimony from Shia's across the world that He is the true Imam?

This is actually the really fundamental question that this thread posed, which no one has been able to answer yet. so first, this question needs to be answered "how will one know if this Imam is the true Imam" and only then, does your question merit an answer.

I actually went through the entire 6 pages once again, only to find that this question has not been answered.

So my friend, lets learn our ABC's first before studying History

And believe it or not, THIS QUESTION NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED FIRST BEFORE ANY OF YOURS ARE ANSWERED