The True Imam - How would you verify?

[anajmi]

The Dai used to be Ahl Al Zikr, but we figured out that he is a corrupt human incapable of being Ahl Al Zikr. So currently we have other Ahl Al Zikr. I have quite a few that I talk to when I have questions and I am satisfied with their answers.

[Humsafar]

Can't ONE Proggy speak up :p. Confusion confusion.

Dai: This is your new Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
Dai: Do you accept his as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam

[Al Zulfiqar]

now this makes 2 progressives...

dai - will you give misaq to this true imam?
reformists - yes we will
dai - will you undergo another khatna for him to prove your allegiance?
reformists - yes we will. we will in fact sacrifice our complete manhood if so reqd
dai - will you sell your jaan ane maal to this imam?
reformists - yes. we sold it long back already
dai - will your women folk agree to female khatna to please the imam?
reformists - yes, they are doing it right now on a mass genocidal scale

and so on and so on...

every condition agreed. now just bring forth the true imam pleeeaaase....

[anajmi]

I agree with Humsfar and Al Z. I will accept the Imam that the Dai recognizes as I am hoping that the Imam will whack him

[SBM]

SBM
I was going to answer those questions. But got diverted. Please take them to a relevant thread. Thanks

Hmmm.... Now let's see what the herd of cattle WITH a Shepherd looks like:

We're very proud of being a united community, with a shepherd.
As Musa Nabi said (Surah Taha) و اهش بها على غنمي (I take care of my own cattle)

You, Humsafar "You are like a herd of cattle without a Shepherd"

No one to follow. Nothing to believe in. Don't know right from wrong.

Dawoodi Bohras stand united on the answer of verification.
Can't ONE Proggy speak up :p. Confusion confusion.

Adam
What is a relevent thread, can you please start the thread and answer my question one at a time.
Thanks

[ghulam muhammed]

Adam

What is a relevent thread, can you please start the thread and answer my question one at a time.

There is no "Relevant Thread" when it comes to questioning the loot and unethical practices of the dai, keep searching ta-qayamat and yet you will find none.

[progticide]

You proggies want answers then let me give you some answers. And after this I hope that you would come back to the topic under discussion and express explicitly your single and united progressive view (which we are quite sure does not exist) that we are trying to know for the last one month on the verification of True Imam:

Q. Dai-e-Mutlaq celebrating Milad with pomp and Grandeur. Is it acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that the scale of celebrations be increased year after year. Ta' Qayamat.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's acceptance of Najwa and other offerings acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that we get the opportunity to gift all that we have to our Dai. Afterall all that we have is due to his blessings. He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness and we are proud to be his cattle.

Q. Is the sajda to Dai-e-Mutlaq acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs pray that we have the good fortune to perform it again and again.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq accountable on the financial matters to the community?
A. Absolutely NO. Infact We DBs wish that the Dai-e-Mutlaq finds us worthy enough to take something or rather I wish He takes everything from us and than uses his discretion to give us something out of his desire for our sustenance. Surely, even this may not be necessary since he does best for our sustenance anyways.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's authority in spiritual and temporal matters of DB absolute?
A. Absolute. Without any doubt whatsoever.

Q. Would the Dai-e-Mutlaq's verification of the True Imam be accepted by DBs.
A. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Dai-e-Mutlaq would guide the community to the True Imam.

I request Adam and Profastian to add their words of wisdom to my above views.

Hereafter, lets hear the progressives on their stand on the topic under discussion. "The True Imam - How would you verify?"

[mustafanalwalla]

Dawoodi Bohras stand united.

If you are speaking on behalf of Abdes active on this forum, you are correct, if you are speaking in general presentation of Abdes and DBs, then there is scope of discussion.

Majority of DBs, commoners mostly have sketchy idea of concept of Imam-uz-Zaman, For commoner DBs Dai is the central figure of belief, while Imam-uz-Zaman-in-seclusion is a magical mysterious concept they hear as part of Bohra Faith Ideologies and philosophies. Knowledge of entire structure, philosophies and ideaologies of Bohra Faith is limited to minority of Abdes who are involved in jamaat activities or regular attendees of closely guarded secretive sabaks.

DISCLAIMER : I m NOT generalizing above point of view on each and every DB present on earth. My opinion is extremely subjective to my experience and interaction with commoner orthodox abde bohras I have come across in my life so far. I can say with confidence; abdes I have interacted with as friends and family are extremely loyal and fanatically inclined bearded & topi wearing bohras, thus I have heard substantially an honest inclination of beliefs and opinions.

Haa Haa Haa, dude, im assuming that the disclaimer was for my benefit... Well sorry about the incessant snapping all the time

Anyways, to come back to your observation, i would like to refute it, giving my non-generalised POV.

My opinion too, is extremely subjective to what have been my experience and interaction with a huge number of common orthodox Bohras that i too, have met in my life.

Yes, just like you, I too can say with confidence; abdes I have interacted with as friends and family are extremely loyal and fanatically inclined bearded & topi wearing bohras and they do worship our Dai.

But believe it or not, ALL of them, and i repeat ALL of them are aware of the concept of Imamat Zaman and ARE FULLY AWARE of the fact that the Dai is a representative of the Imam.

Surprisingly, none of them were unaware of the concept of an Imam-in-hinding-in-waiitng

So, i guess everywhere you go, you will have some people who are aware of reality and some who live in blind faith. Anyways, all we can do is pity those who live in blind faith

[mustafanalwalla]

You proggies want answers then let me give you some answers. And after this I hope that you would come back to the topic under discussion and express explicitly your single and united progressive view (which we are quite sure does not exist) that we are trying to know for the last one month on the verification of True Imam:

Q. Dai-e-Mutlaq celebrating Milad with pomp and Grandeur. Is it acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that the scale of celebrations be increased year after year. Ta' Qayamat.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's acceptance of Najwa and other offerings acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that we get the opportunity to gift all that we have to our Dai. Afterall all that we have is due to his blessings. He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness and we are proud to be his cattle.

Q. Is the sajda to Dai-e-Mutlaq acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs pray that we have the good fortune to perform it again and again.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq accountable on the financial matters to the community?
A. Absolutely NO. Infact We DBs wish that the Dai-e-Mutlaq finds us worthy enough to take something or rather I wish He takes everything from us and than uses his discretion to give us something out of his desire for our sustenance. Surely, even this may not be necessary since he does best for our sustenance anyways.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's authority in spiritual and temporal matters of DB absolute?
A. Absolute. Without any doubt whatsoever.

Q. Would the Dai-e-Mutlaq's verification of the True Imam be accepted by DBs.
A. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Dai-e-Mutlaq would guide the community to the True Imam.

I request Adam and Profastian to add their words of wisdom to my above views.

Hereafter, lets hear the progressives on their stand on the topic under discussion. "The True Imam - How would you verify?"

WOW!!!

Brother Progticide, all i can say is that i envy the strength of your faith.

I hope someday, i too will be able to have the strength of your convictions

[humanbeing]

Progiticide, just making a suggestion on a lighter note, you would qualify for the Annual Wajebaat Speech ! Every year in Ramadan we have one Sheikh who comes to our Markaz and gives us a long jazzy bayaan on wajebat payments and how one should give away everything without flinching.

You are really a Kothari agent and at a higher level, you awesomely benefit from the monetory accesses of Kothari collections, because not once you have objected or commented against frauds by your amil brothers.

I hope I m wrong, and if not, I would not be surprised !

PS : F Y I : the sheikh who came last time, his name is Sheikh Turab Bhai Saheb and he is a relative of Kuwait Amil , he gave a fancy exaggerated and unsubstantiated bayaan on wajebaat and moments of inteqaam by Allah, if one did not pay his wajebaat as advised by raza na saheb. Guess what !! … he lost big bucks in the ponzy scheme fraud which hit kuwait last Ramadan (ha ha ha ) ! it wont be difficult for you to find out who he is, as you guys are welll connected !! And I surely know, you will debunk this news as there is nothing official about scams in our community other than hearsay !! surprisingly such hearsay comes from the avid and devoted followers in the Jamaat itself. (so much for the unity eh !)

[Maqbool]

Porus (Prof. Poo) and his band of monkeys are quick to jump on anything from history, geography, cosmology, astrology and what not

Dear porus in future do not quote from anything mentioned above since it is going above the head of the Dbs!!

[profastian]

You proggies want answers then let me give you some answers. And after this I hope that you would come back to the topic under discussion and express explicitly your single and united progressive view (which we are quite sure does not exist) that we are trying to know for the last one month on the verification of True Imam:

Q. Dai-e-Mutlaq celebrating Milad with pomp and Grandeur. Is it acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that the scale of celebrations be increased year after year. Ta' Qayamat.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's acceptance of Najwa and other offerings acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that we get the opportunity to gift all that we have to our Dai. Afterall all that we have is due to his blessings. He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness and we are proud to be his cattle.

Q. Is the sajda to Dai-e-Mutlaq acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs pray that we have the good fortune to perform it again and again.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq accountable on the financial matters to the community?
A. Absolutely NO. Infact We DBs wish that the Dai-e-Mutlaq finds us worthy enough to take something or rather I wish He takes everything from us and than uses his discretion to give us something out of his desire for our sustenance. Surely, even this may not be necessary since he does best for our sustenance anyways.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's authority in spiritual and temporal matters of DB absolute?
A. Absolute. Without any doubt whatsoever.

Q. Would the Dai-e-Mutlaq's verification of the True Imam be accepted by DBs.
A. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Dai-e-Mutlaq would guide the community to the True Imam.

I request Adam and Profastian to add their words of wisdom to my above views.

Hereafter, lets hear the progressives on their stand on the topic under discussion. "The True Imam - How would you verify?"

I would add one more
Q. Is the hunting of wild animals by the DAI for pleasure, acceptable.
A. Yes. I wish everyone gets to go as the jungle air is very refreshing .

[humanbeing]

HI MN

Yes ! Disclaimer is important ! you give me a tough time with your personal exceptions. In fact thanks, your critical objections makes me present my views more clearly.

MN, thanks a ton for your observations

Yes, just like you, I too can say with confidence; abdes I have interacted with as friends and family are extremely loyal and fanatically inclined bearded & topi wearing bohras and they do worship our Dai
But believe it or not, ALL of them, and i repeat ALL of them are aware of the concept of Imamat Zaman and ARE FULLY AWARE of the fact that the Dai is a representative of the Imam.

Surprisingly, none of them were unaware of the concept of an Imam-in-hinding-in-waiitng

Exactly, I believe it completely. That is why I used the word, they have sketchy knowledge of concept of Imam-in-seclusion as magical mysterious presence known only to sayedna saheb. I can also say 100 % of bohras believe the basic concept of bohraism as dai being the representative of Imam-in-seclusion-in-waiting (more than 800 years) and he is wajid-ul-wujood, who comes to meet sayedna saheb behind curtains drawn after maghrib namaaz, this is a profound and common observation heard from our devoted brothers and sisters

So, i guess everywhere you go, you will have some people who are aware of reality and some who live in blind faith. Anyways, all we can do is pity those who live in blind faith

Yes ! there are few and there are many who live in blind faith and there are few or many who live in convenience, as they call themselves liberal, not-so-religious, modern bohras, when I presented my queries to interview them on their beliefs, response I got was

Apne soo karvu che, aa badha details ma jai ne, samaaj ma rehvu che, jem apna Maula kahe aem karva nu and baaki sab maula joy lese

Wadhaare undhaaan (deep) ma nahi java nu, jetla undhaaaan ma jasu, etla confuse thai jaasu, jem chaale chalvaa do

[mustafanalwalla]

HI MN

Yes ! Disclaimer is important ! you give me a tough time with your personal exceptions. In fact thanks, your critical objections makes me present my views more clearly.

MN, thanks a ton for your observations

Yes, just like you, I too can say with confidence; abdes I have interacted with as friends and family are extremely loyal and fanatically inclined bearded & topi wearing bohras and they do worship our Dai
But believe it or not, ALL of them, and i repeat ALL of them are aware of the concept of Imamat Zaman and ARE FULLY AWARE of the fact that the Dai is a representative of the Imam.

Surprisingly, none of them were unaware of the concept of an Imam-in-hinding-in-waiitng

Exactly, I believe it completely. That is why I used the word, they have sketchy knowledge of concept of Imam-in-seclusion as magical mysterious presence known only to sayedna saheb. I can also say 100 % of bohras believe the basic concept of bohraism as dai being the representative of Imam-in-seclusion-in-waiting (more than 800 years) and he is wajid-ul-wujood, who comes to meet sayedna saheb behind curtains drawn after maghrib namaaz, this is a profound and common observation heard from our devoted brothers and sisters

So, i guess everywhere you go, you will have some people who are aware of reality and some who live in blind faith. Anyways, all we can do is pity those who live in blind faith

Yes ! there are few and there are many who live in blind faith and there are few or many who live in convenience, as they call themselves liberal, not-so-religious, modern bohras, when I presented my queries to interview them on their beliefs, response I got was

Apne soo karvu che, aa badha details ma jai ne, samaaj ma rehvu che, jem apna Maula kahe aem karva nu and baaki sab maula joy lese

Wadhaare undhaaan (deep) ma nahi java nu, jetla undhaaaan ma jasu, etla confuse thai jaasu, jem chaale chalvaa do

Yeah, well, to each his own i say.

Anyways, apologies once again for the tough time, no hard feelings i hope

[humanbeing]

I would add one more
Q. Is the hunting of wild animals by the DAI for pleasure, acceptable.
A. Yes. I wish everyone gets to go as the jungle air is very refreshing .

Q.Is Amils and sheikhs looting, embezzling, misrepresenting funds collected in guise of various development scheme, acceptable ?.
A. Yes. Absolutely, we encourage more of such amils, who can get best out of us, so that we can be jaan and maal se totally qurbaan. .[/

[profastian]

I would add one more
Q. Is the hunting of wild animals by the DAI for pleasure, acceptable.
A. Yes. I wish everyone gets to go as the jungle air is very refreshing .

Q.Is Amils and sheikhs looting, embezzling, misrepresenting funds collected in guise of various development scheme, acceptable ?.
A. Yes. Absolutely, we encourage more of such amils, who can get best out of us, so that we can be jaan and maal se totally qurbaan. .[/

Oh, I didn't know that progressives accepted such amils. That is news for me. We bohras do not.

[profastian]

You proggies want answers then let me give you some answers. And after this I hope that you would come back to the topic under discussion and express explicitly your single and united progressive view (which we are quite sure does not exist) that we are trying to know for the last one month on the verification of True Imam:

Q. Dai-e-Mutlaq celebrating Milad with pomp and Grandeur. Is it acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that the scale of celebrations be increased year after year. Ta' Qayamat.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's acceptance of Najwa and other offerings acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that we get the opportunity to gift all that we have to our Dai. Afterall all that we have is due to his blessings. He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness and we are proud to be his cattle.

Q. Is the sajda to Dai-e-Mutlaq acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs pray that we have the good fortune to perform it again and again.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq accountable on the financial matters to the community?
A. Absolutely NO. Infact We DBs wish that the Dai-e-Mutlaq finds us worthy enough to take something or rather I wish He takes everything from us and than uses his discretion to give us something out of his desire for our sustenance. Surely, even this may not be necessary since he does best for our sustenance anyways.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's authority in spiritual and temporal matters of DB absolute?
A. Absolute. Without any doubt whatsoever.

Q. Would the Dai-e-Mutlaq's verification of the True Imam be accepted by DBs.
A. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Dai-e-Mutlaq would guide the community to the True Imam.

I request Adam and Profastian to add their words of wisdom to my above views.

Hereafter, lets hear the progressives on their stand on the topic under discussion. "The True Imam - How would you verify?"

WOW!!!

Brother Progticide, all i can say is that i envy the strength of your faith.

I hope someday, i too will be able to have the strength of your convictions

With this post, progticide has answered nearly all the questions posed by proggies in different threads and cleared our stance completely. It is high time that progressives clear their stance and answer the question about the verification of the Imam.

[humanbeing]

Oh, I didn't know that progressives accepted such amils. That is news for me. We bohras do not.

That’s a relief ! atleast we have some start !! but that is your opinion profastian. In fact in past too, you have objected and criticized people in the community management of corruption, and only you have commented on such corrupt practices where as other abde scholars have been silent. You do acknowledge there is corruption at lower levels, which is wrong. Can I say that about you ? (if wrong my apologies)

[profastian]

Oh, I didn't know that progressives accepted such amils. That is news for me. We bohras do not.

That’s a relief ! atleast we have some start !! but that is your opinion profastian. In fact in past too, you have objected and criticized people in the community management of corruption, and only you have commented on such corrupt practices where as other abde scholars have been silent. You do acknowledge there is corruption at lower levels, which is wrong. Can I say that about you ? (if wrong my apologies)

Of course I acknowledge that there is corruption at the lower levels. And I think that is the stance of most of the abdes on this forum. But this corruption is no reflection of the DAIs character, as he has to select people amongst ourselves to run the affairs of the jamat. Remember only the DAI is infallible, not the shahzadas or the amils or the kothar, so if any of them is involved in corruption, then that is very believable. However, some of the shahzadas you guys speak about are the Hadoods of Dawat and it is highly unlikely that they are involved in financial corruption, which is historically the case, but they can surely go astray in their beliefs.(after all iblees was an angel too, the 3 were Hudoods too, Nizar was the son too). But all of this is in no way a reflection of the DAis character. All he can do is to select the best person for the job.

[mustafanalwalla]

Oh, I didn't know that progressives accepted such amils. That is news for me. We bohras do not.

That’s a relief ! atleast we have some start !! but that is your opinion profastian. In fact in past too, you have objected and criticized people in the community management of corruption, and only you have commented on such corrupt practices where as other abde scholars have been silent. You do acknowledge there is corruption at lower levels, which is wrong. Can I say that about you ? (if wrong my apologies)

Of course I acknowledge that there is corruption at the lower levels. And I think that is the stance of most of the abdes on this forum. But this corruption is no reflection of the DAIs character, as he has to select people amongst ourselves to run the affairs of the jamat. Remember only the DAI is infallible, not the shahzadas or the amils or the kothar, so if any of them is involved in corruption, then that is very believable. However, some of the shahzadas you guys speak about are the Hadoods of Dawats and it is highly likely that they are involved in financial corruption, which is historically the case, but they can surely go astray in their beliefs.(after all iblees was an angel too, the 3 were Hadoods too, Nizar was the son too). But all of this is in no way a reflection of the DAis character. All he can do is to select the best person for the job.

thank you. This is what i have been trying to say a lot of times, but could never put it down in words clearly

[humanbeing]

Lovely ! that’s a another step in recognizing there is something wrong with our community, just a little, which is financial corruption. I have expressed my concern in similar regards.

A fraud Amil or Sheikh at management levels, chosen or opted to serve the rayyet / daawat indulges in embezzlement or frauds is not only a threat or rotten apple of the community, who robs people of their hard earned money, but also cheats and breaches trust of sayedna saheb who has bestowed him with sharaf and responsibility of managing the affairs in good faith. Now being a true and just leader, when such embezzlement / frauds are proven, guilty shall be punished publicly. Just like other offenders and made to submit maafinama (which they do, is a lousy secluded practice ) and shall be made to teach a lesson like how others were made to learn for offenses.

I don’t wish to argue on Infallibility … it’s a debatable concept between reason and dogma, we can on some other day at some other thread.

[progticide]

Progiticide,
You are really a Kothari agent and at a higher level, you awesomely benefit from the monetory accesses of Kothari collections, because not once you have objected or commented against frauds by your amil brothers.

I hope I m wrong, and if not, I would not be surprised !

Humanbeing,
As always you are again wrong.

And if we were to use your yardstick for categorising people to be Kothari agents, then all the DBs that you see in the picture above and those who could not be pictured in this photograph and the Million more in other cities and towns across the globe should be called kothari agents. Because what I have written above is not just my view but the view of every DB who chants Maula Maula with folded hands at the sight of their beloved Dai. Thus, by this definition every DB is a kothari agent at the higher level.

You have eyes yet you cant see how DBs in their thousands rush to get a glimpse of their Maula. You have ears but you are deaf bcoz you dont hear the chants of "Maula Maula" that the DBs raise at the glimpse of their Dai-e-Mutlaq. By your definition, these all people should be termed Kothari agents.

Alas, you are truly deaf and blind.

[humanbeing]

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq's acceptance of Najwa and other offerings acceptable to DBs?
A. Absolutely acceptable. Not simply acceptable but We DBs wish that we get the opportunity to gift all that we have to our Dai. Afterall all that we have is due to his blessings. He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness and we are proud to be his cattle.

Q. Is the Dai-e-Mutlaq accountable on the financial matters to the community?
A. Absolutely NO. Infact We DBs wish that the Dai-e-Mutlaq finds us worthy enough to take something or rather I wish He takes everything from us and than uses his discretion to give us something out of his desire for our sustenance. Surely, even this may not be necessary since he does best for our sustenance anyways.

Progiticide,

I have not mentioned abdes of the pictures anywhere, my view on you were inspired from your above post, specifically with money orientation. Only a Kothari agent benefitting from such financial accesses would justify arbitrary and influenced coaxing of shelling out moolah from rich and poor sundry bohras

As for commoner abdes, they shiver, whine, crib and bargain to reduce aribitary wajebaat amount negotiated in an intimidating takhmeen environment. I have comes across lot of sheikhs and amils to the likes of your words above, I heard something similar from you that I hear regularly from Amils (and they have been famous from coaxing fat salaams, najwas and wajebaat) later to learn they have been involved in small or big frauds or are generally known as greedy extravagant pompous buggers.

I would still be glad, if I m wrong and you are not from such category of office holders.

[progticide]

Some people on this forum are making every deliberate effort to ensure that this topic under discussion gets derailed and closed since the Progressives are ending up to be miserably confused and defenseless on this thread. No rational/objective doctrine that the progressives have on one of the most important tenet of DB faith, and yet you people call yourselves to be part of DBs. But rather call yourself Progressive DBs. What sort of progression is this by any standard?

The DBs have answered all possible questions that have been raised by the progressives all throughout this thread as well as other threads and therefore, it is now time for Progressives to answer the questions pending at their end. No more excuses Progs, just tell us if you have a unanimous(or majority) opinion amongst you on the Verification of the True Imam.

Enough of rhetoric and abuse and DB-bashing. You got your answers. Now its time to publish your stand and not a feeble one-man stand, but joint (if not unanimous) opinion(s) on the subject of verifying the True Imam.

[Adam]

Again. Thank you Progticide.
Great job indeed.

All humanbeing has being saying has nothing to do with answering a simple question. He's just confused as the other Proggies are. And just because he's answering, doesn't mean he's got guts, it just makes him seem more of a lunatic

PROGGYs :
The True Imam - How would you verify?

[SBM]

Adam
You can find time to answer Progti and Profa's postings but could not answer the questions I posted and asked for relevant thread, What is a relevant thread and do you plan to answer. In case you forgot the questions had to do whether the Imam will be progeny of Ahlul Bayt, Is current Syenda a progeny of Ahlul Bayt, Did Raja Bharmal and Tarmal who later became Dai were the progeny of Ahlul Bayt, When did the Wadhawo Rasm started?
Who are the true progeny of Ahlul Bayt, Dawoodi-Sulemani-Alaavi or Yamani Bohra?
Your cheerleaders like Progti and Profa, M VD or Nalwala can also jump to answer since you are very busy with defending the Repressiveness of the community

Adam
What is a relevent thread, can you please start the thread and answer my question one at a time.
Thanks

[progticide]

Adam bhai,
Another attempt by proggies to derail the topic and escape answering the question. They are now truly shivering inside their half pants.

Let us keep our focus undistracted on this thread.

Proggies,
The True Imam - How would you verify?

[porus]

Adam: How would you verify the true Imam?

Non-abde (na): I don't know. How would you verify the true Imam?

Adam: I do not need to verify him. He will be pointed out to me by the Dai. Now tell me. How would you verify the true Imam?

na: er, I don't know.

Adam: In that case, you are not a Dawoodi Bohra. If you do not have the belief that only the Dai can point the true Imam out, you are, as my friends Progticide and Profastian have stated, a Shaitan.

na: Please do not say that, my dear Adam. I prostrate to Allah and have faith in the Quran. (سجدت للرحمن و امنت بلقران)

Adam: Dai is the Quran and we, DB's, prostrate to the Dai. Now tell me, how would you verify the true Imam?

na: I have heard that the Dai kicks you on your backside. Even then, you prostrate to him?

Adam: Unfortunately, I have only one backside. I wish I had more so that all of them can be blessed by being kicked by the Dai. Now, how would you verify the true Imam?

na: Ok, then. I will go along with Humsafar and not verify him but accept whoever the Dai points out as the Imam.

Adam: That is no answer. Only abdes can accept Dai's word. You, being a Shaitan, have to verify him all by yourself. Now, how would you verify the true Imam?

na: I am not very knowledgeable in these matters. Is there a Fatemi authentic book I can read which will convince me that only the Dai can identify the Imam and that Imam himself cannot do it?

Adam: No, there are no books. Even if there was one, you have proved that you are Shaitan and therefore you will not have access to it. In any case, even if you read it, you will not understand it. That is our DB belief. Now, how would you verify the true Imam?

na: So, what should I do in order to learn how to verify the Imam?

Adam: That is simple. First, you must prostrate before the Dai and seek his forgiveness. If, in his ahsaan and rehamat, he forgives you, then you simply stop thinking and admit yourself into the august company of breast-beaters and sing praises of Dai all the time. That is the true Deen of Islam.

na: Thank you Adam. I can now see how wrong I have been. Not only will I stop studying the Quran and prostrate to the Dai and seek his forgiveness, but allow me, if you kindly will, to prostrate before you and before your good friends Progticide and Profastian.

Adam: Ata Boy! Now, you have joined the true mumineen, the Dawoodi Bohras. I will not trouble you further about question of how you would verify the Imam? You have joined the blessed unthinking multitude. Congratulations!

[SBM]

Profastatin

I would add one more

Q. Is the hunting of wild animals by the DAI for pleasure, acceptable.

A. Yes. I wish everyone gets to go as the jungle air is very refreshing

In that case can I suggest starting with you and entire Kothari Goons move to Jungles in Africa, I am sure African Abde Regressives would do Sajad-e-Shukran and another suggestion that the yearly Moharram Tamasha should be moved to Jungles in Africa, Kothris and Abde Regressive not only have Jungle Air refreshing but easy to kill more wild animals for pleasure it is called two for one deal

[SBM]

Progticide

He is our Shepherd in this era of darkness

Since you or one of you cohorts had called me Chimgadar and since only Chimgadar can see in darkness what do you call your Shepherd now?