Shiism a brief analysis: An excellent academic primer

[SBM]

Topiwala
Go and do some more research, Baghdadi and Osama were not Wahabis they considered Wahabis to be more Moderate and they wanted to throw out Saudi Rulers (would not have been a bad idea) but their kind of Islam is known as Takfiris or Salafis, there is a big difference.
BTW since SKQ does not follow your leaders SMS as a true DAI according to your first two sentence he qualifies as Wahabi too

[topiwala]

No wahhabi and salafis are same, former is a derogatory term latter being used by themselves. And I know you are a card carrying wahhabi who is against "shirk" "biddah" and our Mola Mufaddal TUS.

[SBM]

who is against "shirk" "biddah" and our Mola Mufaddal TUS.

So I am a true Muslim---Thank you

And I know you are a card carrying wahhabi

where can I get the Wahabbi Cards I thought that was copy righted by SMS and his goons under E Jamaat scheme

[ghulam muhammed]

And if you see even the messages of GM he also is covertly actually spreading puritan wahhabi ideology by criticizing the saudis which are already criticized by groups like ISIS and alqaeda (ISIS calls saudi regime murtad(Apostate)).

What a twisted interpretation !! It means that every muslim including the Gujarat Genocide victims speaking against Narendra Modi are pro-Pakistanis (according to Modi/RSS), every non jew speaking against Israel's aggression and capture of Palestine is an anti-semetic (According to Jews).

[ghulam muhammed]

Let me take the liberty of producing my old post for topiwala's benefit :-

Talibans - They brainwash their subjects in Madrassas.
Kothar - They brainwash their subjects in Jamea and sabaks.

Talibans - Strict dress code, men without beard and women without burka are whipped and punished publicly.
Kothar - Strict dress code, men without beard and women without rida are denied their membership and have to forego various social gatherings, nikahs not performed, obstacles during burial of their near and dear ones.

Talibans - They produce suicide bombers with their brainwashing tactics.
Kothar - They produce slaves who don't demand their fundamental and democratic rights.

Talibans - Their followers proudly call themselves Mujahids.
Kothar - Their followers proudly call themselves Abdes (Slaves).

Talibans - They allegedly fund their organisations by arms trade, narcotics and extortion.
Kothar - They fund their cult by extorting moneis thru forced extortion and various unislamic taxes.

Talibans - They mislead muslims by falsely propagating a violent version of Islam.
Kothar - They mislead their followers by falsely propagating a greedy version of Islam.

Talibans - Their thrust is on prayers, fast, haj.
Kothar - Their thrust is on wajebat, mola and ONLY More-La.

Talibans - They market videos of their slain followers in order to attract other muslims.
Kothar - They market the battle of karbala in order to rake in more moolah during Mohurrum vayez.

Talibans - They attack anti muslim personals.
Kothar - They embrace and fund anti-muslim personals e.g.Modi, Thackerey, Advani etc etc.

Talibans - They operate from hilly terrains and tora borah.
Kothar - They operate from palaces like saifee mahal, khandala bungalows and other exotic european locales.

Talibans - There are media reports of some foreigners getting converted to islam during their captivity.
Kothar - There are ZERO conversions.

Talibans - They are ruthless killers who dont spare even women and shoot them in head in public grounds.
Kothar - They are ruthless animals who dont spare even women and dig their bodies from the grave and throw it on public footpaths.

Talibans - They cause sectarian strifes.
Kothar - They cause sectarian strifes.

Talibans - Their leader Osama Bin Laden had 4 wives.
Kothar - Their leader Taher Saifuddin saheb also had 4 wives.

Talibans - They are WITH majority of ummah who is against George Bush for his atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Kothar - They are AGAINST majority of ummah who are against Modi for his role in mass genocide in gujarat.

Talibans - Their leaders fight alongwith their followers.
Kothar - Their leader runs away leaving his followers in a lurch during a fight. (52nd dai running away in police van during bohra/sunni riots in mohurrum).

Talibans - They claim to be the only sect which is guaranteed paradise.
Kothar - They also claim to be the only sect which is guranteed paradise, they further their claim by way of a recommendation letter from their leader (ruku chithi).

More to follow.............

[ghulam muhammed]

Both Quran and Hadith were tampered by the awwal saani

You have ceased to be a Muslim by saying the above because Allah (swt) Himself has mentioned in the Quran that He will guard the Holy book in its entirety. "Verily, We have sent down this Remembrance (the Qur'an), and We are of a surety going to protect it (from tampering)." (15:9). Oops, I forgot that you are a Bohra and not a Muslim !!

[topiwala]

GM, this makes you a takfeeri salafi, I knew from your posts that you are in reality a hard core wahhabi salafi same like baghdadi \osama\anajmi , even they quote the Quran and justify their takfeer. You are not just criticizing saudi but you are spreading an ideology of wahhabism by giving fatwa of kafir to bohras, you also have ccalled them idol worshippers many a times in sync with anajmi. These are all traits of salafi wahhabi

[DisillusionedDB]

Wahhabis cite Quran \hadith to show that our culture is wrong , they may be right in this but for us our culture and traditions are supreme.

You mean to say that you believe they may be right, but yet you choose to follow the wrong path ? Islam takes a back seat when you state that our culture and traditions are supreme.

Both Quran and Hadith were tampered by the awwal saani.

1) If the Quran was tampered with, then where is the authentic / correct version ? If you say that Usman burned all the original versions, then how do you know whether the Quran was tampered with in the first place ? And by saying that the Quran has been tampered with, you have already faulted Allah who says that He will protect it.
2) Were there ahadith at the time of Awwal Saani ? As far as I know, ahadith were compiled much much later.

[DisillusionedDB]

GM, this makes you a takfeeri salafi, I knew from your posts that you are in reality a hard core wahhabi salafi same like baghdadi \osama\anajmi , even they quote the Quran and justify their takfeer. You are not just criticizing saudi but you are spreading an ideology of wahhabism by giving fatwa of kafir to bohras, you also have ccalled them idol worshippers many a times in sync with anajmi. These are all traits of salafi wahhabi

GM, so now you have officially been anointed a wahabi/salafi by topiwala bhaisaheb. Laqab mubarak thai Now you can sing ghanu jeevo for Al Baghdadi and Al Zawahiri.

[topiwala]

disillusioned db,
I cant answer your questions in public forum as there are wahhabis who are strictly monitoring these threads and whatever I say will be labelled as shirk bidah by them. And taweeli secrets are not to be discussed on such public forums where we have wahhabi onlooking eyes. They are not worth to discuss the taweeli ilm they will only mock it.

[SBM]

^
Seems like topiwala ko Kothar ney Achi topi pehnaa dee hey. Suwaal Nu Jawaab naa hoi tu Taawil banaavi do

[anajmi]

That is exactly what I did. In my final exam the question paper said - "Please explain pythagoras theorem". I applied my sabak learning skills and answered - "This is taawil nu bayaan and cannot be written down on paper". I got a big circle for my effort.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Both Quran and Hadith were tampered by the awwal saani

You have ceased to be a Muslim by saying the above because Allah (swt) Himself has mentioned in the Quran that He will guard the Holy book in its entirety. "Verily, We have sent down this Remembrance (the Qur'an), and We are of a surety going to protect it (from tampering)." (15:9). Oops, I forgot that you are a Bohra and not a Muslim !!

Mr.Topiwala,

Please answer my counter question to you:-

If Abu Bakr Siddique and Omar had tampered or manipulated the Quran Majeed as you say, than why after Imam Ali (AS) when he became the 4th Khalifa did not rectify or correct the Quran which was tampered (nauzobillah). I can proudly say that your not a momin or a muslim you are doubting the same quran which is holy words of god. By doubting Quran you have denied that acceptance of Islam also.

[fayyaaz]

What does it matter whether the Quran has been tampered with in ancient times. All Muslims today agree on the Quran. It is the same, they say, as revealed to the Prophet.

Similarly, ancient cave paintings, hieroglyphics found in various parts of the world, particularly in Egypt and other parts of Near East, the Pyramids, Easter Island statues are all unchanged.

What is different is the interpretations different people give to these artifacts. Same with the Quran. Inscriptions are preserved as holy relic. You respect it like you would respect an idol, give it a sacred place such as a niche to place it in, kiss it and so on. Interpretations of the Quran vary according to various sects and that is important not the ancient Arabic with which it is composed.

Both a Bohra and another Muslim will agree that Bismillah starts with ba with zer, seen with jazm and so on. But that is where the agreement ends.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Very cleverly diverting my Question which is to all the die hard Muffadalis:-

Mr.Topiwala,

Please answer my counter question to you:-

If Abu Bakr Siddique and Omar had tampered or manipulated the Quran Majeed as you say, than why after Imam Ali (AS) when he became the 4th Khalifa did not rectify or correct the Quran which was tampered (nauzobillah). I can proudly say that your not a momin or a muslim you are doubting the same quran which is holy words of god. By doubting Quran you have denied that acceptance of Islam also.

[anajmi]

Ali was also working under taawil. Infact, the prophet (saw) himself was also taweeling when giving us the Quran. Hence he gave us an in-correct Quran right from the beginning so that Allah's word doesn't get falsified. Which means Allah has been protecting the false Quran all along. This is pure taaweel from the brilliant minds of abde idiots.

Then the real Quran was giving to the Imam but he ran into hiding so that he wouldn't have to reveal taaweel nu bayaan. This taaweel is like the skeleton key. It can be used to explain away any bullshit a bohra comes up with.

[fayyaaz]

lakum taweelakum wa liya taweel.

[topiwala]

thanks fayyaz for your very interesting and relevant posts, I completely agree with most of your posts. You are taking these wahhabis very intelligently , I hope you are from bohra fold only

[SBM]

I hope you are from bohra fold only

Oh Yes he is Kothari [DELETED] ... do not worry.. he is one of you but intelligent and sneaky

[anajmi]

Another [DELETED] [DELETED] . You are collecting some specimens around you.

[Ozdundee]

http://www.deoband.org/2013/09/aqida/pr ... -analysis/

Can commenters try refuting points made in this article rather shouting at each other.

If these reach has any merit it needs pragmatic review by both sides as to it being a core dispute that has fractured our faith.

The only people who want to keep this division are people who have to loose by a United islam ...these are people who are our current leaders...the division gives opportunit for them to hold on to power.

One can refute it by searching through the references and calling it a bluff or producing alternative evidence that is more credible than what has been presented in the article.

[Ozdundee]

Very cleverly diverting my Question which is to all the die hard Muffadalis:-

Mr.Topiwala,

Please answer my counter question to you:-

If Abu Bakr Siddique and Omar had tampered or manipulated the Quran Majeed as you say, than why after Imam Ali (AS) when he became the 4th Khalifa did not rectify or correct the Quran which was tampered (nauzobillah). I can proudly say that your not a momin or a muslim you are doubting the same quran which is holy words of god. By doubting Quran you have denied that acceptance of Islam also.

The stupidity and hypocrisy in their arguments is SMB was hafiz of Omars book if that is what it is and SMS wants kids to hifz Omars book.

[ghulam muhammed]

GM, this makes you a takfeeri salafi, I knew from your posts that you are in reality a hard core wahhabi salafi same like baghdadi \osama\anajmi , even they quote the Quran and justify their takfeer. You are not just criticizing saudi but you are spreading an ideology of wahhabism by giving fatwa of kafir to bohras, you also have ccalled them idol worshippers many a times in sync with anajmi. These are all traits of salafi wahhabi

I can understand your frustrations and predicament because this is the only attack you have to any logical answers. BTW, When have I said Bohras are 'Kafirs' although I have said that some of their beliefs as practiced under influence of the twisted ideology as propagated by the Bohra clergy are not in line with Islam. Instead of answering the moot question that Allah (swt) has Himself said in the Quran that He will protect the Holy book from tampering thereby rubbishing your stupid claims you have taken a convenient route that every abde takes...... label him a "Wahabi". It seems you want to defend the 'Natiqe Quran' and nullify the "Real" Quran !!

[ghulam muhammed]

I knew from your posts that you are in reality a hard core wahhabi salafi same like baghdadi \osama\anajmi

You forgot to mention "Muffadal BS", look at his fatwas and you will realise what Iam saying.

even they quote the Quran and justify their takfeer.

I had said... Allah (swt) Himself has mentioned in the Quran that He will guard the Holy book in its entirety. "Verily, We have sent down this Remembrance (the Qur'an), and We are of a surety going to protect it (from tampering)." (15:9). Now please UNjustify the above with your wisdom.

[khokawala]

topiwala, can you please share here more of your "taweeli ilm" as you spoke in other threads,or are you afraid that you will be confronted by "wahhabis" for the utter crap and heresy taught in your sabaks