new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

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humble_servant_us
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#61

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:56 am

What about "Vashek" and 2 rakat namaz for the dai which is now clubbed with Mansoos ? Is it in line or a Bidah ?
None of these are prayed in a congregation. They are prayed independently by people. There might be no problem with Tarawih as long as it is prayed by individuals separately. It is praying it in congreation like wajib salaah which is a biddah. Umar has also confirmed it as a innovation (good or bad is a different point of discussion). Had it been practiced by the prophet(pbuh) he would not have called it a innovation.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#62

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:50 am

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in offering these prayers in congregation on several nights.

It is proven in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in prayer (Taraweeh) for several nights, then on the third or fourth night he did not come out to them. When morning came he said: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1129. According to the version narrated by Muslim (761): “But I feared that night prayers would be made obligatory for you and you would not be able to do them.”

humble_servant_us
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#63

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:08 am

The same sahih also quotes Umar calling it a innovation. So both the hadith cannot be sahih.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#64

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:21 am

humble_servant_us wrote:The same sahih also quotes Umar calling it a innovation. So both the hadith cannot be sahih.
Umar RA revived the practice of tarawih . Revival is akin to innovation albeit ,innovation is sin whereas revival of a prophetic practice is virtue.

“Whoever revives an aspect of my Sunnah that is forgotten after my death, he will have a reward equivalent to that of the people who follow him, without it detracting in the least from their reward.”
"Whoever revives a Sunnah from my Sunnah and the people practice it, will have the same reward of those who practice it without their reward diminishing" (Sunan ibn Maajah, 209)

humble_servant_us
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#65

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:10 am

Definition of Innovation is "something new or different introduced".
Definition of revival is "restoration to use, acceptance, or currency: the revival of old customs."

To common sense Both words do not look same. However if you want to interpret Innovation as revival and continue with the biddah , you have a free choice. You have always been advocating openness in thought , this is one instance where atleast be honest to your self and accept it. It is from Sahih and from Umar.

Muslim First
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#66

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:52 am

Brs. HSU, 6'U,Salim,Hanif etc.

Those who practice Islam full of Innovations should stop complaining about Tarawihs. Admit that Prophet led Tahajjud prayers in Jamaat at least twice. If Mainstream Muslims (MM) pray this Namaaz (8,10 or 20) and get to listen to complete Qur'an at least once, then it is OK.

Prophet did not always pray 5 prayers in 3 times but Shias have made it into Norm, so it is good Bida?

Praying to dead people and visiting Dargahs are OK since some MM's also do it?
Symbols of Punjas and Aalam are justified by glib explainations.
Replacing Namaaz with Shirk infested Dua is justified in pretex of Plurality.
List goes on and on
Wasalaam to all

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#67

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:32 am

Sunday dars at this mosque:
Topic: Importance of Unity in Muslim Ummah
Time :After Zuhr salat
Separate sitting arrangement for ladies

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#68

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:46 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:Sunday dars at this mosque:
Topic: Importance of Unity in Muslim Ummah
Time :After Zuhr salat
Separate sitting arrangement for ladies
I think the topic should read as: "Importance of Unity among Wahhabis", as other so-called Muslims are nothing more than grave worshiping, chadar-chadaaving, qawwali-singing, chest-thumping, dead-person-addressing, alam-kissing, idol-worshiping mushriks. Only wahhabism is the true tomb-demolishing, bomb-exploding, fidayeen-sacrificing, above-ankles-pant-wearing, ninja-niqab-weilding, taraweeh-praying, puritanical form of true islam!

Unity with idol-worshiping mushriks, no way! Best way to teach these pagans a true lesson is to correct them through bombing them (action), through takfir (word) or cursing them in the heart, (which is the lowest level of faith), based upon the dead Prophet's saying.

Then there will be true unity among us wahhabis.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#69

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:24 am

sixfeetunder wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:Sunday dars at this mosque:
Topic: Importance of Unity in Muslim Ummah
Time :After Zuhr salat
Separate sitting arrangement for ladies
I think the topic should read as: "Importance of Unity among Wahhabis", as other so-called Muslims are nothing more than grave worshiping, chadar-chadaaving, qawwali-singing, chest-thumping, dead-person-addressing, alam-kissing, idol-worshiping mushriks. Only wahhabism is the true tomb-demolishing, bomb-exploding, fidayeen-sacrificing, above-ankles-pant-wearing, ninja-niqab-weilding, taraweeh-praying, puritanical form of true islam!

Unity with idol-worshiping mushriks, no way! Best way to teach these pagans a true lesson is to correct them through bombing them (action), through takfir (word) or cursing them in the heart, (which is the lowest level of faith), based upon the dead Prophet's saying.

Then there will be true unity among us wahhabis.
Well you are always free to come. Your taunt is misplaced since huge number of people embrace pure Islam and no bomb or takfir is being done it is just your biased imagination. 80% of people who fill the 4 floors of the mosque are new entrants from all walks of life like barelvi,isna ashri, bori,christian,parsi,hindu , rich,poor etc. Which bomb forced them to do that?

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#70

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:38 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:
sixfeetunder wrote: I think the topic should read as: "Importance of Unity among Wahhabis", as other so-called Muslims are nothing more than grave worshiping, chadar-chadaaving, qawwali-singing, chest-thumping, dead-person-addressing, alam-kissing, idol-worshiping mushriks. Only wahhabism is the true tomb-demolishing, bomb-exploding, fidayeen-sacrificing, above-ankles-pant-wearing, ninja-niqab-weilding, taraweeh-praying, puritanical form of true islam!

Unity with idol-worshiping mushriks, no way! Best way to teach these pagans a true lesson is to correct them through bombing them (action), through takfir (word) or cursing them in the heart, (which is the lowest level of faith), based upon the dead Prophet's saying.

Then there will be true unity among us wahhabis.
Well you are always free to come. Your taunt is misplaced since huge number of people embrace pure Islam and no bomb or takfir is being done it is just your biased imagination. 80% of people who fill the 4 floors of the mosque are new entrants from all walks of life like barelvi,isna ashri, bori,christian,parsi,hindu , rich,poor etc. Which bomb forced them to do that?
I have been there, done that and very well know what the Wahhabi idea of unity among Muslims is all about! If you deny takfiri activity, what have you yourself been doing on this forum from day one? Here a takfir, there a takfir, everywhere takfir, takfir!

The Wahhabi idea of 'Unity in Muslim Ummah' is simple. Everyone should follow 'Qur'an' and 'Authentic Sunnah' (read Wahhabi version of Quran and sunnah). Then, there will be unity. Everyone will be pure and clean.
Which bomb forced them to do that?
The recipients of the blasts have either become dearer to God or are living a legless existence. The Wahhabi idea of unity is not unity in the real sense. Unity comes when you listen to other people's opinions and if you don't agree, you agree to disagree and live in harmony! By shoving your ideology in a fellow Muslim's mind, unity can never be established!

Rethinking Shia-Sunni Unity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwL5OyBZ_5c

olum
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#71

Unread post by olum » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:22 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:Sunday dars at this mosque:
Topic: Importance of Unity in Muslim Ummah
Time :After Zuhr salat
Separate sitting arrangement for ladies
this moron dont leave a single chance to call mushriq and kafir to shia, and this idiot is doing seminars of unity of muslim ummah...such an ass hole.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#72

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:40 am

i have only said mushrik to those who invoke for help others along wid allah,quran does so. again i acknowledge the fact tht there are shias who are not mushrik and dont invoke others with allah and consider it to b shirk.as well as they consider alams to be idols
hence not all shias are mushriks.

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#73

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:15 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:i have only said mushrik to those who invoke for help others along wid allah,quran does so. again i acknowledge the fact tht there are shias who are not mushrik and dont invoke others with allah and consider it to b shirk.as well as they consider alams to be idols
hence not all shias are mushriks.
If a Muslim thinks someone else has powers independent to the powers of Allah and invokes that entity, you can very well go ahead and accuse him of associating partners with Allah. But if a Muslim is seeking a means of approach to Allah, through a saint or Imam, it does not constitute shirk. A wasila is only a means towards an end and not an end in itself. If you contend that one cannot ask the dead, let me remind you from the Quran that those who are slain in the path of Allah are not dead. They are alive but you perceive it not. They are in Allah's presence and obtain sustenance from Allah. First learn your Tawheed lesson properly and then preach others. Your Islaaam reeks of petroleum. Mainstream Sunni and Shia do not like the smell of it.

And do you consider the Kaaba to be an idol? If your answer is no, then why do accuse Alams to be idols. Shias do not prostrate to the Alam. But you prostrate to the Kaaba. So, if I don't know your intention, I can safely conclude that you're a kaaba-worshiper. But you will justify your action and say you prostrate to Allah alone, even if apparently you're prostrating in front of the Kaaba! You will expect me to accept your argument but when I present my argument about Alams, you will tell me to shut up!! Unity, indeed!!

anajmi
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#74

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:39 pm

The difference between Alams and Kaaba is that kaaba was created by humans with the command of God to commemorate God. Alams are created by humans without any command from God to commemorate humans and not God.

Muslim First
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#75

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:34 pm

6'U wrote
. But you prostrate to the Kaaba.
Muslim prostrate towards Kaaba because Allah SWT asked them to do so. Only ignorant about Islam would say "you prostrate to the Kaaba. "
Kaaba is direction only. If Kaaba was destroyed tomorrow Muslims wold still pray in the directin of Kaaba. Idolaters pray towards their Idols. They cannot pray inside their Idols. Muslim can pray inside Kaaba.

Shia venevrate all kind of objects like Aalams, Punjas, little cribs, etc. there is no mention of them in Quran.

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#76

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:50 pm

anajmi wrote:The difference between Alams and Kaaba is that kaaba was created by humans with the command of God to commemorate God. Alams are created by humans without any command from God to commemorate humans and not God.
So basically, God wanted humans to do 'shirk' and hence he commanded humans to build a big black cube. No? But Intention is to worship Allah, right? But still there exists a big black cube, in front of which you prostrate. If I only take away your intention, your act of prostration loses the monotheist flavor.

Similar is the case with Alams. What are alams, anyway? Decorated flags of Islam, representing Tawheed. The Prophet's armies carried these Alams - flags - during battle. The flags had certain marks on them which represented various tribes. The alams are not a new invention. They were in existence at the time of Prophet (s.a.w). The alams made by the Shia remind them of the battle of Karbala. These are signs and not idols. The panja signifies the Ahle-bayt, which is the identity of Shia faith. Different cultures have different styles of Alams. These are cultural manifestations. These are not acts of mandatory worship like Salah, sawm, zakaat, hajj etc. A Shia doesn't become a lesser Shia if he/she doesn't kiss an alam! It is only an emotion. Just like your kissing the Quran wrapped in a velvet cover doesn't make you a velvet-worshiper, similarly a person kissing the alam doesn't make him an alam-worshiper. The Wahhabi state of Arabia has its own symbol and flag, would you call that an act of shirk? Then why call the Shii'te flag an idol? Shias do not worship these flags!

The tragedy of Karbala evokes many passions. Today, even if a faasiq, faajir Muslim dies, he is given proper burial and shroud. The grandson of your Prophet (s.a.w) was martyred thirsty in the burning sands of Karbala and not even a shroud was provided. This massacre evokes passion among the lovers of the Prophet and hence these flags are made in remembrance of him who was called the leader of the youth of paradise by none other than the Prophet himself. To call these flags 'idols' would be blasphemy to the lovers of the Prophet (s.a.w). What is the problem in commemorating those who died in the way of Allah?

I have made my points. I don't intend going around in circles and arguing endlessly. I don't think I will be posting on this anymore, especially if there is no fruitful debate. If you don't agree with my points, please agree to disagree and move on and stop this mushrik-mushrik game at least in this holy month. Thanks.

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#77

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:59 pm

Muslim First wrote:
6'U wrote
. But you prostrate to the Kaaba.
Muslim prostrate towards Kaaba because Allah SWT asked them to do so. Only ignorant about Islam would say "you prostrate to the Kaaba. "
Kaaba is direction only. If Kaaba was destroyed tomorrow Muslims wold still pray in the directin of Kaaba. Idolaters pray towards their Idols. They cannot pray inside their Idols. Muslim can pray inside Kaaba.

Shia venevrate all kind of objects like Aalams, Punjas, little cribs, etc. there is no mention of them in Quran.
Similarly, it is ignorant to say that one 'worships the alam', when one only kisses or shows respect towards it. Hope you get the point.

Aalams, punjas and little cribs are 'venerated' for what they represent. Would you read the Quran in a toilet? No. Why? Because you respect it. After all, isn't it just ink and paper? But the ink and paper signifies the words of Allah. The Quran is a sign of Allah, hence it is given utmost respect. Similarly, these cultural paraphernalia symbolize the acts of martyrdom by the chosen ones of God and hence are respected. Often there are Quranic inscriptions and wordings on the alams, especially on the Iranian and Arab ones. I am not sure of the verse number but the Quran emphasizes on respecting signs of God. These alams are meant to symbolize the sacrifice of Imam Hussain in the way of Allah. So they are respected.

Muslim First
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#78

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:17 pm

6'U wrote
the chosen ones of God
Can you quote Aya of Qur'an stating that Myrters of karbala were chosen one of Allah?

What about Imambaras? Is it alternate place of worship? I remember as child I lived in Palanpur in house owned by one Amir Saheb, eldest son of Nawab Talehmohammed Khan thru a Tawayaf. They had this Dargahs ( Imambara) on the property. And old lady would call her grand children every day, make them lie down in front of a niche with lamp and perform a ritual of warding off evils. I am wondering how many symbols of love Shia venerate?

Would it not be sufficient to send 'Salawat' often instead of venerating symbols?

Muslim First
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#79

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:20 pm

6'U wrote
Similarly, it is ignorant to say that one 'worships the alam', when one only kisses or shows respect towards it. Hope you get the point.
Even if Aalam was made from cloth of Myrters it would be Shirk to kiss it.
After all, isn't it just ink and paper
What a idiotic statement.

anajmi
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#80

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:10 pm

So basically, God wanted humans to do 'shirk' and hence he commanded humans to build a big black cube. No?
Please do not loose your senses. Read my statement again. Here it is

The difference between Alams and Kaaba is that kaaba was created by humans with the command of God to commemorate God. Alams are created by humans without any command from God to commemorate humans and not God.

I am simply stating a fact and not calling you a mushrik. And in all your rhetoric, you haven't actually denied this fact. Thanks.

Muslim First
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#81

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:13 pm

. “Nine tenths of the Religion consists of taqīyyah; whoever does not practice this has no Religion; Taqīyyah is part of my Religion and that of my ancestors; whoever does not keep taqīyyah is devoid of Faith.- Imam Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq,
(Muhammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, The Divine Guide in Early Shi‘ism, 129. )
6'U, HSU, Salim,Hanif etc.

What more stuff and rituals you guys do? Since 9/10 of the rituals are probably done in secrete!

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#82

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:17 am

Muslim First wrote:
. “Nine tenths of the Religion consists of taqīyyah; whoever does not practice this has no Religion; Taqīyyah is part of my Religion and that of my ancestors; whoever does not keep taqīyyah is devoid of Faith.- Imam Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq,
(Muhammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, The Divine Guide in Early Shi‘ism, 129. )
6'U, HSU, Salim,Hanif etc.

What more stuff and rituals you guys do? Since 9/10 of the rituals are probably done in secrete!
Since i was raised as bohra i never was taught this hypocritical doctrine so knew nothing about it until when i changed to Quran and sunnah ,one behind the cover shia student who showed himself as sunni propped up and started to argue with me and disclosed that he was shia. He was also trying to stealthily spread hatred of sahabah and tahreef of Quran and hadith to the gullible sunni students posing as a sunni. So he was exposed becoz of me and we had arranged some debates with him on the typical issues.And it seems now he is back to being a sunni(?) with me!
A few weeks back i met an Iranian student and he was damn serious about taqia and saw it as virtue.He justified it accusing hazrat Ali AS of doing the same.

pheonix
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#83

Unread post by pheonix » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:30 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:i have only said mushrik to those who invoke for help others along wid allah,quran does so. again i acknowledge the fact tht there are shias who are not mushrik and dont invoke others with allah and consider it to b shirk.as well as they consider alams to be idols
hence not all shias are mushriks.
I have yet to come across a Shia who doesn't chant yaa Ali madad. So in short, you consider all shias as mushriks and are being a hypocrite.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#84

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:56 am

Well a member on this forum is Arif and he does believe that "ya ali madad is shirk"
Proof:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... irk#p98228

aliabbas_aa
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The Prohibition of Building Structures over Graves

#85

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:51 am

This Article is in reply to those who make domes over graves, Let us see ahadeeth and Sayings of the Salaf and why they NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED

http://www.systemoflife.com/articles/re ... ver-graves

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#86

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:25 am

Muslim First wrote:
6'U wrote
the chosen ones of God
Can you quote Aya of Qur'an stating that Myrters of karbala were chosen one of Allah?
Ya RasulAllah! This person who calls himself 'Muslim First' needs an ayat of the Quran to believe that your beloved Hussain is a chosen one of Allah. Your countless narrations about Hussain (a.s) are not enough for him. He doesn't even read the Quran properly and is probably not aware of Ayat-e-Mubahila or Ayat-e-Tatheer!

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#87

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:31 am

sixfeetunder wrote:
Muslim First wrote:
Ya RasulAllah! This person who calls himself 'Muslim First' needs an ayat of the Quran to believe that your beloved Hussain is a chosen one of Allah. Your countless narrations about Hussain (a.s) are not enough for him. He doesn't even read the Quran properly and is probably not aware of Ayat-e-Mubahila or Ayat-e-Tatheer!
There is no doubt that the Ahlebayt are the waliullah but that does not grant you the freedom of making them idols to be worshipped.
Invoking for help is worship
excessive praise is worship

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#88

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:32 am

anajmi wrote:The difference between Alams and Kaaba is that kaaba was created by humans with the command of God to commemorate God. Alams are created by humans without any command from God to commemorate humans and not God.
Going by your logic, God commanded humans to bow in front of Kaaba and do shirk!!

As for making Alams, it is not a mandatory act of worship and hence We do not find anything wrong in commemorating the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (a.s). Anything that brings you close to Allah is good. Admiring the beauty of a flower can also bring you close to Allah. You should do that. Smiling at your parents is also an act of worship. All these acts are not mandatory but bring you close to Allah. If remembering Hussain (a.s) brings me close to Allah, what is your problem? I have provided an explanation about Alams in a previous post. If you don't agree, please feel free to call me a mushrik and add to your sins. Thanks.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#89

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:43 am

sfu,
First You should not try to project us as haters of Ahle bayt this is a big slander which you are trying to propagandize here. We love ahlebayt as we love prophet pbuh. And we do believe in the hadith which says that one who hates his hasnain hates the prophet pbuh. So please dont try to project as haters of ahlebayt. iNFACT IN the love of the prophet pbuh we want all the shirk and bidah which the prophet detested to be completely vanquished hence we wont mind in behaving as how hazrat ALI behaved with nusairis and how his sermon #126 in nahjul balagah clearly potrayed. Shirk is the worst unpardonable crime worse then rape, murder and fitna and all safeguards should be ensured so that even the illiterates wont fall into shirk and bidah.Hence the demolishing of the dargas.

sixfeetunder
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Re: new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

#90

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:44 am

Muslim First wrote:
. “Nine tenths of the Religion consists of taqīyyah; whoever does not practice this has no Religion; Taqīyyah is part of my Religion and that of my ancestors; whoever does not keep taqīyyah is devoid of Faith.- Imam Ja‘far al-Ṣādiq,
(Muhammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, The Divine Guide in Early Shi‘ism, 129. )
6'U, HSU, Salim,Hanif etc.

What more stuff and rituals you guys do? Since 9/10 of the rituals are probably done in secrete!
Don't jump the gun just as yet! I have read this hadith for the first time. I don't know about its authenticity. From the source you have quoted, it seems it has been taken from a book written by Amir Moezzi but it does not show the original reference. If you can provide an original reference from a Shia book, I can try to check its validity, meaning and context. Thanks.