Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

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Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby aliabbas_aa on Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 am

Let us see what Holy Prophet Muhammad had said about the coming of Imam :

There are saheeh Ahaadeeth that indicate that the Mahdi (peace be upon him) will appear at the end of time. He is one of the signs of the Hour. Among these ahaadeeth are the following:

Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "At the end of the time of my ummah, the Mahdi will appear. Allaah will grant him rain, the earth will bring forth its fruits, he will give a lot of money, cattle will increase and the ummah will become great. He will rule for seven or eight years. (Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557-558; he said: this is a hadeeth whose isnaad is saheeh, Al-Dhahabi agreed with him, and al-Albaani said: this is a saheeh sanad, and its men are thiqaat (trustworthy), Silsilat al-ahaadeeth al-saheehah, vol. 2, p. 336, hadeeth 771)

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood reported that the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name will be the same as mine." (Musnad Ahmad, 5/199, hadeeth 3573. Another version says: "… whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s." Sunan Abi Dawud, 11/370).

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression. (Abu Dawood)

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night. (Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is one of us, a member of my family. Allaah will guide him in a single night.’" (Musnad Ahmad, 2/58, hadeeth 645, edited by Ahmad al-Shaakir, who said: its isnaad is saheeh; Sunan Ibn Maajah, 2/1367. This hadeeth was also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 6735). Ibn Katheer said: "This means that Allaah will forgive him, grant him help, inspire him and guide him, when he was not like this before." (Al-Nihaayah, al-Fitan wa’l-Malaahim, 1/29; edited by Taha Zayni).

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Umm Salamah said: "I heard the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) say: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage and family, from the descendants of Faatimah.’" (Sunan Abu Dawud, 11/373; Sunan Ibn Maajah. 2/1368. Al-Albaani said that it is saheeh in Saheeh al-Jaami, 6734)

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.’" (Sunan Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Mahdi, 11/375, hadeeth 4265; Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557; he said: this is a saheeh hadeeth according to the conditions of Muslim, although it was not reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. See also Saheeh al-Jaami, 6736).

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

After the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajr-ul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him. Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground. On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnah and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat. (Abu Dawood)

Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will descend, and their leader the Mahdi will say, "Come and lead us in prayer," but he will say, "No, one of them should lead them as an honour to this ummah from Allaah."’" The version narrated by Muslim says: "… Then ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam (Peace be upon him) will descend and their leader will say, ‘Come and lead us in prayer,’ but he will say, ‘No, some of you are leaders over others as an honour from Allaah to this ummah.’" (Reported by Muslim, 225)

Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "He is one of us, behind whom ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will pray." (Reported by Abi Na’eem in Akhbaar al-Mahdi. Al-Albaani said it is saheeh; see al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 5/219, hadeeth 5796).


According to these Reliable, Authentic, and Universally Accepted Narrations, Imam Mahdi will:

1.Be from among the family of Prophet (SAW), among the descendants of Fatima (RA);

2.Have a broad forehead and pointed noise;

3.Appear in one night;

4.Appear just before the day of judgment;

5.Have same name as Hazrat Muhammad (SAW);

6.Escape from Madina to Makkah where people will pledge allegiance to him;

7.Receive pledge and help of Iraqi people;

8.Fight in battles;

9.Rule over the Arabs for seven or Eight years according to Sunnah;

10.Spread justice and equity on earth;

11.Eradicate tyranny and oppression;

12.Lead a prayer in Makkah which Jesus (pbuh) will follow in;

13.NOT be the same individual as the Promised Messiah (Jesus).

14.Allaah will grant him rain, the earth will bring forth its fruits,

15.He will give a lot of money, cattle will increase and the ummah will become great.

16. He is one, behind whom ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will pray.

Did this all so called Imam Mahdis fulfilled these criteria and performed these duties?

The ahaadeeth concerning the appearance of the Mahdi reach the level of Tawaatur in meaning (tawaatur refers to a hadeeth which was narrated by so many people through so many isnaads that it is inconceivable that they could all have agreed on a lie). The imaams and scholars of this ummah have stated this, and a few of their comments are quoted below:

1. Al-Haafiz Abu’l-Hasan al-Aabiri said: "The mutawaatir reports from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) describing the Mahdi are very many. They state that the Mahdi will be of his family, that he will rule for seven years, that he will fill the earth with justice, that ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will emerge and help him to kill the Dajjaal, and that he will lead this ummah in prayer and ‘Eesaa will pray behind him."

2. Muhammad al-Barzanji said, in his book al-Ishaa’ah li Ashraat al-Saa’ah: "The major signs and the signs that will be immediately followed by the Hour: these signs are many, of which the Mahdi will be the first. Know that the ahaadeeth that have been narrated about him in various reports are numerous." He also said: "You know that the ahaadeeth which speak of the Mahdi, his appearance at the end of time, and his lineage and descent from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) via Faatimah reach the level of tawaatur in meaning, so there is no point in denying them."

3. Al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Safaareeni said: "There are so many reports which speak of the appearance of the Mahdi that they reach the level of tawaatur in meaning; they are very popular among the scholars of Sunnah and have become part of their faith." Then he quotes a number of ahaadeeth and reports about the appearance of the Mahdi and the names of the Sahaabah from whom they were narrated: "Many reports were narrated from the Sahaabah whose names were mentioned and others whose names were not mentioned, may Allaah be pleased with them all, and from the Taabi’een after them, all of which proves that this is definitive knowledge. Belief in the appearance of the Mahdi is obligatory, as it has been confirmed by the scholars and is listed among the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah."

4. Al-‘Allaamah al-Mujtahid al-Shawkaani said: "The ahaadeeth that we have come across that speak of the awaited Mahdi reach the level of tawaatur, including fifty saheeh, hasan and da’eef munjabar ahaadeeth. There are mutawaatir without a doubt; indeed they are more mutawaatir than others, according to all the standards of usool. There are also many reports from the Sahaabah that speak about the Mahdi and that reach the level of marfoo’, so there is no room for individual opinions in such an issue."

5. Al-‘Allaamah al-Shaykh Siddeeq Hasan Khaan said: "Even though there are different versions of reports concerning the Mahdi, they are so many that they reach the level of tawaatur in meaning. They are to be found in al-Sunan and other books of Islam."

6. Al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ja’far al-Kattaani said: "The conclusion is that the ahaadeeth narrated concerning the Mahdi are mutawaatir, as are the ahaadeeth concerning the Dajjaal and the descent of ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam, upon whom be peace." (See Ashraat al-Saa’ah by Yoosuf ibn ‘Abdullaah al-Waabil, pp. 195-203).

You should be aware that some liars have fabricated ahaadeeth about the Mahdi, and others have even claimed to be he, or that he belongs to a group other than Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. Some of these "false mahdis" have tried to deceive the slaves of Allaah for some worldly gain and to distort the picture of Islaam. Some have started movements and revolutions and gathered those people and supporters whom they were able to deceive. Then they were destroyed, and their lies and falsehood were exposed. None of this affects the belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah in the Mahdi, upon whom be peace, and that he will undoubtedly appear and rule the earth in accordance with Islamic Sharee’ah. And Allaah knows best.

And Now Hadith regarding the coming of Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam

Mirza Gulam Ahmed being Imam Mehdi claimed that he is the Promised Messiah, Eisa Ibne Maryam also, that was prophesiced by the Holy Prophet, who he will come before the Day of Judgement. Was he correct in his claim? Let us see, what Holy Prophet SAW said about this:

"By Him in Whose Hand is my life, Ibn Maryam (Jesus Christ) would certainly pronounce Talbiyah for Hajj or for Umrah or for both (simultaneously as a Qarin) in the valley of Rawha." (Sahih Muslim, Book 7, No. 2877)

"Allah will send Maseeh ibne Maryam (Messiah son of Mary). Thus he will descend near the White Eastern Minaret of Damascus, clad in two yellow sheets, leaning on the shoulders of two angels." (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 8, P. 192-193)

"Hazrat Masih will die after completing the duration he was destined to pass in the world and that Muslims would offer his funeral prayers and bury him next to the grave of the holy Prophet (Saws), Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Umar (RA)." (Mishkat, P. 480)

"By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, Son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizyah (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 34, No. 425)

Mujammi Ibn Jariyah al-Ansari (RA) stated that he heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say: The son of Mary will kill the Anti-Christ (Dajjal) at the door of Ludda. (Tirmidhi and Ahmad)

According to these Authentic and Universally accepted Hadith:

1. The Promised Messiah is none other than Hazrat Isa bin Maryam (pbuh) (Jesus);
2. He will descend among Muslims, near the White Eastern Minaret of Damascus, Syria, clad in two yellow sheets (dyed with saffron), while leaning on the shoulders of two angels;
3. He will pray behind Imam Mahdi;
4. He will fight with, chase, and kills Dajjal (the Anti-Christ) at the gate of Ludd;
5. Messiah will rule justly according to the Laws of Islam and not Gospel;
6. People of the Book will accept him as a Messenger of Allah (SWT) and will embrace Islam (Quran 4:159); subsequently, Cross (Christianity) and Jizyah tax (on non-Muslims) will be abolished;
5. He will encounter attack of Gog and Magog and will be victorious;
6. Islam and justice will rule, oppression will be eliminated, and no fighting (War) will be needed (will be abolished);
7. Everyone will be well off and hatred, jealousy, and grudge will disappear;
8. Messiah will perform Hajj and/or Umra;
9. He will die after living on earth for 40 years and will be buried in a grave next to the holy Prophet (SAW).
10. His advent is a sign for the closeness of the day of Judgment (Quran, 43:61)

Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani fulfil any of these conditions, which Holy Prophet SAAW swore that they would take place?

Was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, the Prophet or the Promised Messiah or Imam Mahdi?

Read carefully these Ahaadeeth, look at the state of Muslim world. Mirza knew that he was lying about being a Prophet of God, or Promised Messiah or Imam Mahdi, because:

Mirza was son of Chiragh Bibi, and not Son of Mary!

He did not belong to the family of Holy Prophet SAAW.

He never got a chance to rule the country and establish justice.

Mirza Qadiani admitted:

"I do not claim that I am the same Mahdi who will come according to (words of Hadith) 'from the son of Fatima and from my progeny' etc." (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya V, Roohani Khazain vol.21 p.356)

"We admit this that several Mahdis may have come before and possibly will come in future as well and probably someone by the name of Imam Muhammad may also appear." (Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.379)

"It is possible and quite possible that at some time in future such Messiah may appear upon whom the literal words of Hadith (of Holy Prophet) fit, because this humble self has not come with the Reign and Command of this world, but with poverty and humility." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.197)

"It is possible that in future no Messiah may come. It is possible 10,000 more Messiah may come and one of them may descend in Damascus." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.251)

Dear Brothers! Mirza knew that he is not that Imam Mahdi, the Divine Leader that is promised by Holy Prophet SAAW, yet his followers keep insisting that he was Imam Mahdi. If he is Imam Mahdi, then obviously he miserably failed to do his job.

Dear Readers! Mirza himself was aware that whatever he has claimed is totally against what has been mentioned by Holy Prophet Muhammad but he was so overcome by his satanic desires that he did not realize that he is committing blasphemy. He justified his claims by saying:

"The basis for our claims is not Hadith but Quran and that Wahi which comes to me. Yes, in support we also present those Hadith which are according to Quran and DO NOT CONTRADICT MY WAHI. Rest of the Hadith, I THROW THEM AWAY LIKE A WASTE PAPER." (Roohani Khazain vol.19 p.140)


Dear Readers! It is clear that the founder of Ahmadiyya Movement had laid claims contradictory to Quran and Hadith. The Islamic scholars of Makkah, Madina, Cairo and the entire Muslim world declared as apostate, disbelievers, and out of the fold of Islam, him and his followers. He died 100 years ago, but his followers continue to deceive people in the name of Islam. Ignorance from Islamic teachings, and, ignorance from Mirza Ghulam and his teachings is the basic fault, which is exploited by the missionaries of Ahmadiyya. It is the duty of every Muslim to be on their guard against such deception. No Muslim should be allowed to get trapped out of ignorance. Knowingly if someone joins them, then of course there is no compulsion in religion.

May Allah protect Muslims from the fraudulent doctrine of these Deviant Movements Like Qadiyaniyat and Mehdiviyat movement in the name of Islam. O Allah! Bring ignorant Muslims who have been trapped by them, back to the fold of Islam, let them see what is right and what is wrong and then give them the hidayah to follow the right path. Ameen.


http://allaahuakbar.net/mehdavis/who_is ... _mahdi.htm
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby aliabbas_aa on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:00 am

Whyy the ismaili literature is silent (hidden?) about this most important issue?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby badrijanab on Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:51 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:Whyy the ismaili literature is silent (hidden?) about this most important issue?


aliabbas_aa,

You derived your conclusion above after reading which all books of Ismailies?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby aliabbas_aa on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:47 am

badrijanab wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:Whyy the ismaili literature is silent (hidden?) about this most important issue?


aliabbas_aa,

You derived your conclusion above after reading which all books of Ismailies?

i have read nahjul balagha and diamul islam in english and have not found anything significant concerning this topic, please post any significant data on this topic with authentic references.
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby porus on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:36 am

aliabbas_aa wrote:
badrijanab wrote:
aliabbas_aa wrote:Whyy the ismaili literature is silent (hidden?) about this most important issue?


aliabbas_aa,

You derived your conclusion above after reading which all books of Ismailies?

i have read nahjul balagha and diamul islam in english and have not found anything significant concerning this topic, please post any significant data on this topic with authentic references.


This is like saying "I have read the works of Galilio and Isaac Newton and have found nothing significant about space-time curvature. Hence there can be no such concept. :roll:

3 Likes: badrijanabHanifstranger

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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby aliabbas_aa on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:58 am

so can you please do the needful and post relevant literature on IDENTIFICATION OF Imam ?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby Hanif on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:04 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:Whyy the ismaili literature is silent (hidden?) about this most important issue?

It is not silent about this important issue. A lot of literature was lost and destroyed after the Ayubids destroyed Ismaili Libraries in Fatimid Egypt. Sensible people and rightful people would have preserved them to prove Ismaili doctrines, philosophies,e tc. wrong. But they had no leg to stand on, so they flooded the Nile with the papers from the books written by Ismaili Imams and Dais, and made shoes out of the crocodile binders. This is the behavior is expected from a typical ayubid/abbasid Muslims.

Your Aboo Aurangzeb destroyed the literature produced by all other sects except for his own. He killed the leaders of other sects except his own. Today, the likes of you glorify him.

Now how can I pay attention to your rhetoric on this forum?


Recently I watched a lecture by Paul E. Walker who is a specialist on Fatimid Ismailism. He said that some of the pages were found by the Fatimid loyalists and deposited in a vault and they had recently surfaced. Poonawalla, translated them and put them in order and sent to Lebabnon for printing. A few issues were printed and when the Lebanese found out after sending out the first shipment what was contained in that literature, they destrouyed the hard copy and no more issues wre printed. Fortunately, Poonawalla secured what he had in his possession.

The document was about how the Fatimid Imams were very tolerant of other faiths and how everybody in the Kingdom practiced their faith without prejudice. Ismailis were allowed to join the Christians, Twelvers and Jews in their celebrations.
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby anajmi on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:11 pm

Now why would Poonawala send this to be printed in Lebanon and not in Iran?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby Hanif on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:17 pm

aliabbas_aa wrote:so can you please do the needful and post relevant literature on IDENTIFICATION OF Imam ?



Go get a copy of Master of Age by Paul E. Walker from Amazon.com. You will find thought provoking discussion about your own beliefs in that. Problem with you guys is you do not want to venture outside your own cacoon. You are wrapped around the Mullahs, Qur'an and Ahadith and rely on what your Mullas tell you. They tell you everybody is doing bida except you guys. And the likes of you, who refuse to see outside your own cacoon follow their suit.

You did not do any research and I doubt if you even read Daim ul Islam. You have to read a lot before you can conclude whether you are right or wrong. Two books are not enough, brother. No wonder you glorify Aurangzeb, who committed murders of his own family members and imprisoned some of them. Is that Islam you are following? You called him Aurangzeb RA. What is wrong with you?

And you are coming on this site to prove us wrong? Give me a break.The guy was afraid to be buried underground after he was dead under the pretext of wanting to speak to Allah SWT directly. Where did he read that and what Mullah taught him that. What an idiot!

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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby Hanif on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:23 pm

anajmi wrote:Now why would Poonawala send this to be printed in Lebanon and not in Iran?

Iranians would be equally hostile, even more hostile. Lebanon is a mixture of Christians, Sunnis and Shias. Later two hostile to the Ismailis. However, Lebanese are more moderate than other Muslims in the Middle East. My guess is some idiots like some on this forum read it and decided this should not be given the light of the day.
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby anajmi on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:20 pm

I cannot imagine what it was that Poonawala wanted to be printed that even moderate idiots didn't want to print. This I will have to see. Is there a link somewhere?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby Hanif on Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:39 am

anajmi wrote:I cannot imagine what it was that Poonawala wanted to be printed that even moderate idiots didn't want to print. This I will have to see. Is there a link somewhere?



You have to watch the video. Here is the link: http://www.international.ucla.edu/news/ ... tid=125703

Enjoy!
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby anajmi on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:16 am

I don't see any video on that page. There is a 47 minute audio. Is that what you meant?
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby anajmi on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:44 am

I have been listening to Paul Walker (I think that is him) for the last 24 minutes but haven't found what got you so excited in the first place about the discovery of those documents. Infact, I believe he doesn't think too highly about the concept of Imamate. There is nothing new about Imamate that we have already read on this board. Infact, he says that people believed in Imam to be God incarnate at that time. I guess that is what got you excited about these documents? These are documents testifying to the origin of the druze under the fatimid dynasty in egypt. Sorry, but I wasn't able to enjoy the full 47 minutes of that audio. 30 minutes was more than enough. 6 more since the beginning of this post.
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Re: Imam Akhiruz zaman Identification!

Unread postby Hanif on Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:25 pm

anajmi wrote:I have been listening to Paul Walker (I think that is him) for the last 24 minutes but haven't found what got you so excited in the first place about the discovery of those documents. Infact, I believe he doesn't think too highly about the concept of Imamate. There is nothing new about Imamate that we have already read on this board. Infact, he says that people believed in Imam to be God incarnate at that time. I guess that is what got you excited about these documents? These are documents testifying to the origin of the druze under the fatimid dynasty in egypt. Sorry, but I wasn't able to enjoy the full 47 minutes of that audio. 30 minutes was more than enough. 6 more since the beginning of this post.


I wish you had persevered another 17 minutes. Anyway, the material he is talking about surfacing was in the first 5 minutes. Nevertheless, here it is, because I had to listen again so I can clarify to you:

At 2 minutes into the audio he is stating it took 10 years to clear the palace and their libraries. These people did not care what history was left. By one estimate it was 2 million volumes which was neglected and eventually it disappeared.

By 14 and 15 centuries very little was left. Mamluks wanted to reconstruct the history of Egypt and in particular Makrizzi wanted to write about the Fatimid period. He found bits and pieces and tried to write the history year by year but he did not finish.

Two developments took off in the middle of the last century. Vast information surfaced.

One of those was from the GaneeZa in Cairo - these were histories recorded by the Jews and they were buried in the Ganeeza. The custom was that the papers that were not needed were buried in Ganeeza.


Discarded papers and records were not buried in one of the Synagogue’s and historians collected what they could. They even looted the place.

Towards the end he talks about the translation by a Syrian scholar and how the papers were missing……then he talks about the printing, I had say between 40 and 47 minutes.

As regards your perception of the lecture, it is different from mine. I think Walker has covered the Fatimid Imams very favorably, including the controversial Imam Hakim. But that is another subject.

Yes, the Druze consider the Imam as Allah, etc. but the Imams made sure that they let their people know that they were servants of Allah SWT. Please get a copy of Orations of the Fatimid Caliphs by Walker and put your mind at ease.

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Important development in this forum

Unread postby aliabbas_aa on Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:11 am

It is not silent about this important issue. A lot of literature was lost and destroyed after the Ayubids destroyed Ismaili Libraries in Fatimid Egypt. Sensible people and rightful people would have preserved them to prove Ismaili doctrines, philosophies,e tc. wrong. But they had no leg to stand on, so they flooded the Nile with the papers from the books written by Ismaili Imams and Dais, and made shoes out of the crocodile binders. This is the behavior is expected from a typical ayubid/abbasid Muslims.

Your Aboo Aurangzeb destroyed the literature produced by all other sects except for his own. He killed the leaders of other sects except his own. Today, the likes of you glorify him.

Now how can I pay attention to your rhetoric on this forum?


I am glad that fatimi members of this forum have agreed that most of the Ismaili literature has been destroyed (for whatever reason). This was infact my own hypothesis that fatimi literature (hadith ,laws etc and not noaah and self glorification qasidahs) is irrecoverably extinct and the fatimids know have no knowledge source from the time of Imams hence they are busy in just praising the daee , glorifying the matrydom of the Imams and celebrating shirkia Urs. Hence They (the illiterate abdes and daees) are very far away FROM Islam.

If Allah swt had deemed Ismaili LITERATURE AS the siratul mustaqeem then Allah SWT would have preserved it like he has preserved the books of the ahlus sunnah with its own science of Hadith.
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message, and We will assuredly guard it from corruption." [Noble Quran 15:9]
since Islam is the final deen it is incumbent to preserve the minutest details of this deen .It is only the ahlus sunnah who has this message and they are the only ones who have preserved it to this date!
All other munafiq shia sects have only created confusion and disunity among the ummah by fabricating millions of false sayings which even the shia scholars agree to in the case of Kafi, biharul anwar etc
aliabbas_aa
 
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