What is difference between Shia Sunni Eid Namaaz, except position of hands. I will study and post both ways.ALIGARH: Just as Sunni theologian Maulana Salman Nadvi of Darul Uloom Nadwatul Ulama wrote an open letter to the Saudi government asking that an army of five lakh Indian Sunni Muslims be raised to fight Shia militia in Iraq and elsewhere, a Sunni student of his madarsa, Sarwar Alam, is watching Shia namaz on YouTube, to learn how to perform prayers the Shia way, so that common prayers can be held on Id-ul-Fitr next week
Shias and Sunnis
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Muslim First
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Re: Shias and Sunnis
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Sunni Muslims banned from holding own Eid prayers in Tehran
Security police block access to houses rented by Sunni minority for worship
Sunni Muslims in Tehran have been banned from congregating at prayers marking the end of Ramadan.
Iran, a Shia country, ordered its Sunni minority not to hold separate prayers in Tehran for Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim festival that brings the month of fasting to an end. They were instead asked to have a Shia imam leading their prayers – something that is against their religious beliefs.
Hundreds of security police were deployed in the capital to prevent Sunni worshippers from entering houses they rent for religious ceremonies.
In recent decades, Iranian authorities have refused Sunnis permission to build their own mosques in Tehran. There is currently no Sunni mosque in the capital, despite there being several churches and synagogues for much smaller Christian and Jewish populations. .
"Tehran's security police prevented Sunni worshippers from performing Eid prayers in various parts of the capital," the official website of the Sunni community in Iran said. "They surrounded the houses where Sunnis perform prayers and have prevented worshippers from going inside."
Read rest at
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/a ... id-prayers
Security police block access to houses rented by Sunni minority for worship
Sunni Muslims in Tehran have been banned from congregating at prayers marking the end of Ramadan.
Iran, a Shia country, ordered its Sunni minority not to hold separate prayers in Tehran for Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim festival that brings the month of fasting to an end. They were instead asked to have a Shia imam leading their prayers – something that is against their religious beliefs.
Hundreds of security police were deployed in the capital to prevent Sunni worshippers from entering houses they rent for religious ceremonies.
In recent decades, Iranian authorities have refused Sunnis permission to build their own mosques in Tehran. There is currently no Sunni mosque in the capital, despite there being several churches and synagogues for much smaller Christian and Jewish populations. .
"Tehran's security police prevented Sunni worshippers from performing Eid prayers in various parts of the capital," the official website of the Sunni community in Iran said. "They surrounded the houses where Sunnis perform prayers and have prevented worshippers from going inside."
Read rest at
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/a ... id-prayers
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Here is discussion from Shia chat
Rather disappointing.
It is impossible to pray according to Shia brothers
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234 ... d-prayers/
Rather disappointing.
It is impossible to pray according to Shia brothers
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234 ... d-prayers/
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Since you have posted this, im assuming you stand by the statement above. Now, if a Shia says that they cannot pray in a Sunni mosque, then that, according to you, would be arrogance on the part of the Shia, but if a Sunni claims its against their religious belief, then its their religious belief? Aap ka khoon khoon, hamara khoon paani?Muslim First wrote:Sunni Muslims banned from holding own Eid prayers in Tehran
Security police block access to houses rented by Sunni minority for worship
Sunni Muslims in Tehran have been banned from congregating at prayers marking the end of Ramadan.
Iran, a Shia country, ordered its Sunni minority not to hold separate prayers in Tehran for Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim festival that brings the month of fasting to an end. They were instead asked to have a Shia imam leading their prayers – something that is against their religious beliefs.
Hundreds of security police were deployed in the capital to prevent Sunni worshippers from entering houses they rent for religious ceremonies.
In recent decades, Iranian authorities have refused Sunnis permission to build their own mosques in Tehran. There is currently no Sunni mosque in the capital, despite there being several churches and synagogues for much smaller Christian and Jewish populations. .
"Tehran's security police prevented Sunni worshippers from performing Eid prayers in various parts of the capital," the official website of the Sunni community in Iran said. "They surrounded the houses where Sunnis perform prayers and have prevented worshippers from going inside."
Read rest at
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/a ... id-prayers
I really didnt wish to enter this debate, but just wanted to bring this point up
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Br Zinger
You have to change your frame of mind to have unity.
At our mosque I see Shia brothers attend Jumma prayers, openly pray with hands on side and some even put piece of clay on floor. Nobody bothers them.
Once During Ramadan Shia center is invited for Iftar and combined group prays behind Shia and Sunni Imam.
It is rigid attitude.
Just like you see no slavery in people standing with folded hands while I see total slavery.
You have to change your frame of mind to have unity.
At our mosque I see Shia brothers attend Jumma prayers, openly pray with hands on side and some even put piece of clay on floor. Nobody bothers them.
Once During Ramadan Shia center is invited for Iftar and combined group prays behind Shia and Sunni Imam.
It is rigid attitude.
Just like you see no slavery in people standing with folded hands while I see total slavery.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
What do you mean?Since you have posted this, im assuming you stand by the statement above.
Government forcing you to pray behind person who is not your prayer leader.
How would you feel if GOI will force you to pray behind Hindu priest?
Change happens voluntarily, not by force.
-
ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Differences among Muslims: They Are a Curse and Not a Mercy
By Dr Aslam Abdullah
Look at the divisions among Muslims and decide if that makes any sense to you. There are two main divisions: Sunnis and Shias.
Within the Sunnis, the community is divided among Hanafis, Shafais, Malikis, Hanbalis, Zahiris and Ibadis. They are further divided among Atharis, Asharis, Maturidis, Murjiahs, and Mutazalis. Then they are further divided into salafis, Ikhwanis, Tablighis, Wahabis, Barelvis, Deobandis, ahle Hadithi, ahle Quran etc.
Within the Shias are Twelvers, Zaidis, and Ismailis, Alevis, Alawis, and they are subdivided into Jafaris, Usulis, Akhbaris, and Shaykhis. Then, there are Sufis including Bektashi, Chishtis, Naqshbandis, Nimaullahi, Oveyssi, Quadris, Suharwardis, Shazlis, Sanussi, Mehdi and Zikris and many more.
Then there is another division that defines Muslims as liberals, conservatives, ultra-liberals, orthodox, militants, extremists and progressive. At another level the community has groups such as straight and gay and lesbians.
Then there is this ever present division; the haves and have nots, the educated and the uneducated, the ignorant and the enlightened and the violent and non violent. Then, there are groups built around a Shaikh or a Ustad, Shaikh X's group and Shaikh Y's group, or this Masjid's group or that Masjid’s group.
It is so pathetic that one really wonders if religion is really a source of unity and mercy.
Some of these divisions are behavioural, some attitudinal, others doctrinal, ideological, political, social, psychological and even religious. Those who thrive on ideological divisions have given them and others a name and they are so rigid on their definitions of Islam that they view others either a non-Muslim or a Kafir or incomplete Muslim. Some of these ideological differences have reached to a level of intolerance. Each of them has been investing millions to promote its ideologies. Masjids are divided on these lines. Islamic centers and organizations are split and within Masaajid and Islamic centers, people are divided again on every possible issue one can imagine. The worst difference that one can come across is how much reverence you should offer to Prophet Muhammad. Should you say Ya Muhammad while addressing him or Ya Rasulullah or just Muhammad or Rasulullah. Should you say Amen loudly or silently? Should you recite Sura Fatiha when praying behind Imam or not reciting it at all. Based on the positions people take on these issues, their religious identity is determined and their religiosity is defined.
What a mockery we have made of a guidance that we believe is for all people and all time! Yet, we the members of the divided community have the audacity to claim that we are the best of the ummah raised for humanity? Are we insane?
The Quran aptly describes the existing divisions when it says: "[or] among those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects, each group delighting in but what they themselves hold [by way of tenets]." (30:32)
Obviously, we have a problem in our understanding of our relations with God and His messenger. Obviously, all of us are making some mistake somewhere in our reading of the Quran and legitimizing the divisions. The Quran is absolutely clear on the ideological clarity of believers when it says: "All human beings were once one single community; [then they began to differ] whereupon God raised up the prophets as heralds of glad tidings and as warners, and through them bestowed revelation from on high, setting forth the truth, so that it might decide between people with regard to all on which they had come to hold divergent views. Yet none other than the selfsame people who had been granted this [revelation] began, out of mutual jealousy, to disagree about its meaning after all evidence of the truth had come unto them. But God guided the believers unto the truth about which, by His leave, they had disagreed: for God guides onto a straight way him that wills [to be guided]." (2:213)
The Quran strongly chastises those who promote differences when it says: “Verily, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - you have nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing." (6:159)
We are often told that our Prophet told us that the differences among the ummah are a mercy. The statement attributed to the Prophet contradicts the Quranic and Prophetic teachings and promotes an idea that the guidance of God is not clear and there is room in it for differences among scholars and people. That God was unable to clarify His message and He left it to scholars and individuals to determine the final truth. Is this not a blasphemy? Why are promoting this? This statement is often used by Muslim scholars to justify the existing differences and the status quo.
Let us look at the statement in details.
Al-Hafiz al-Bayhaqi in his book “al-Madkhal " and al-Zarkashi in his " Tadhkirah fi al-ahadith al-mushtaharah " relate from Imam al-Quasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr al-Siddiq that "the differences among the Companions of Muhammad (s) are a mercy for Allah's servants." Al-Hafiz al-`Iraqi, the teacher of Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani said, that this is a saying of al-Qasim ibn Muhammad.
Al-Hafiz Ibn al-Athir in his introduction to “Jami` al-Usul fi ahadith al-Rasul " attributes the above statement to Imam Malik.
We all believe in the oneness of Allah. We all believe that Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran by Allah through angel Gabriel. We all believe that the words of Quran are from Allah. We all know that the Quran did not address us as Shias or Sunnis, or Salafis or Wahabis or progressive or conservative or orthodox. We all know that the Prophet was neither a Shia nor a Sunni, nor a Hanafi, or Shafai, or Maliki, or Jafari, or Hanbali. We all know that he was not a Deobandi or Barelvi. The Prophet did not follow any of the imams or the leaders. They were the ones who tried to follow the Prophet and the Quran. We all believe that we would be questioned by the Creator of our actions and words on the Day of Judgment. We all believe that the authority of Allah is supreme.
1. Why then we differ? How come we cannot come together to resolve the differences that we have created among ourselves in the Quran and the reading of the Sunnah in the context of the Quran? How come we are unable to sit together to look into serious issues and come up with an understanding that would eliminate the differences? Is Allah's guidance so complicated that we would never be able to find the truth collectively or that we would always differ? How come our noted scholars and renowned Shayukhs describe us as Sunnis or Shafais and not just Muslims.
Where the differences in Allah's words are when He asks us to mend our personal disputes, control our anger, share our resources with people, and show kindness to our neighbours, elders, disabled or helpless? Where is the confusion in the words of Allah and the practice of the Prophet in the recitation of the Quran and the offering of the prayers? Where is the ambiguity in the words of Allah when he asks to be respectful to life and avoid bloodshed? Where the confusion in the message that tells us forgiveness is preferred by Allah?
Through these sectarian divisions and ideological differences, we have turned the guidance of Allah into a human-made religion. We have polluted it and we have changed its essence to suit our cultural, financial, political and so called spiritual interests?
We are guilty of vulgarizing our faith. We are guilty of confusing the seekers of truth with our meaningless differences. We have created a situation where a new comer does not come to Islam even after accepting Shahadah but comes to a sect or an ideology or a sub-sect that claims the right to speak on behalf of Islam.
The problem with us is that we have maligned our own prophet by attributing statements to him that defy the very logic of faith. We are so arrogant that we are imposing our weaknesses on our prophet and spending our time justifying our position in the name of God and Prophet. How loathsome is our attitude and behaviour?
We have mesmerized the people with our own rhetoric that an average person does not get time to reflect on the essence of true faith. He and she are forced to go into a maze prepared by the leaders of sects and ideologies in the name of God. A simple religion has been turned into a complex ideology.
But the only comforting point is that the point of reference, i.e. the Quran is present in its original form and anyone can approach it and verify the claim of any sect on the basis of the guidance of Allah. But the problem is that the Shaikh says that the Quran cannot be understood by people by themselves. This is another lie that is being promoted in the name of God and his Messenger. This is the lie that is delivered in many of our Islamic Centers and Masaajid all over the world. What a moment of shame that in the house of God, we are doing everything possible to belittle His message. Let us at least start identifying ourselves as Muslims and not as Shias, or Sunnis, or Salafis, or Wahabis or progressive or Orthodox. We are Muslims believing in the words of Allah and Sunna of our Prophet.
http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-se ... rcy/d/8207
By Dr Aslam Abdullah
Look at the divisions among Muslims and decide if that makes any sense to you. There are two main divisions: Sunnis and Shias.
Within the Sunnis, the community is divided among Hanafis, Shafais, Malikis, Hanbalis, Zahiris and Ibadis. They are further divided among Atharis, Asharis, Maturidis, Murjiahs, and Mutazalis. Then they are further divided into salafis, Ikhwanis, Tablighis, Wahabis, Barelvis, Deobandis, ahle Hadithi, ahle Quran etc.
Within the Shias are Twelvers, Zaidis, and Ismailis, Alevis, Alawis, and they are subdivided into Jafaris, Usulis, Akhbaris, and Shaykhis. Then, there are Sufis including Bektashi, Chishtis, Naqshbandis, Nimaullahi, Oveyssi, Quadris, Suharwardis, Shazlis, Sanussi, Mehdi and Zikris and many more.
Then there is another division that defines Muslims as liberals, conservatives, ultra-liberals, orthodox, militants, extremists and progressive. At another level the community has groups such as straight and gay and lesbians.
Then there is this ever present division; the haves and have nots, the educated and the uneducated, the ignorant and the enlightened and the violent and non violent. Then, there are groups built around a Shaikh or a Ustad, Shaikh X's group and Shaikh Y's group, or this Masjid's group or that Masjid’s group.
It is so pathetic that one really wonders if religion is really a source of unity and mercy.
Some of these divisions are behavioural, some attitudinal, others doctrinal, ideological, political, social, psychological and even religious. Those who thrive on ideological divisions have given them and others a name and they are so rigid on their definitions of Islam that they view others either a non-Muslim or a Kafir or incomplete Muslim. Some of these ideological differences have reached to a level of intolerance. Each of them has been investing millions to promote its ideologies. Masjids are divided on these lines. Islamic centers and organizations are split and within Masaajid and Islamic centers, people are divided again on every possible issue one can imagine. The worst difference that one can come across is how much reverence you should offer to Prophet Muhammad. Should you say Ya Muhammad while addressing him or Ya Rasulullah or just Muhammad or Rasulullah. Should you say Amen loudly or silently? Should you recite Sura Fatiha when praying behind Imam or not reciting it at all. Based on the positions people take on these issues, their religious identity is determined and their religiosity is defined.
What a mockery we have made of a guidance that we believe is for all people and all time! Yet, we the members of the divided community have the audacity to claim that we are the best of the ummah raised for humanity? Are we insane?
The Quran aptly describes the existing divisions when it says: "[or] among those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects, each group delighting in but what they themselves hold [by way of tenets]." (30:32)
Obviously, we have a problem in our understanding of our relations with God and His messenger. Obviously, all of us are making some mistake somewhere in our reading of the Quran and legitimizing the divisions. The Quran is absolutely clear on the ideological clarity of believers when it says: "All human beings were once one single community; [then they began to differ] whereupon God raised up the prophets as heralds of glad tidings and as warners, and through them bestowed revelation from on high, setting forth the truth, so that it might decide between people with regard to all on which they had come to hold divergent views. Yet none other than the selfsame people who had been granted this [revelation] began, out of mutual jealousy, to disagree about its meaning after all evidence of the truth had come unto them. But God guided the believers unto the truth about which, by His leave, they had disagreed: for God guides onto a straight way him that wills [to be guided]." (2:213)
The Quran strongly chastises those who promote differences when it says: “Verily, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - you have nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing." (6:159)
We are often told that our Prophet told us that the differences among the ummah are a mercy. The statement attributed to the Prophet contradicts the Quranic and Prophetic teachings and promotes an idea that the guidance of God is not clear and there is room in it for differences among scholars and people. That God was unable to clarify His message and He left it to scholars and individuals to determine the final truth. Is this not a blasphemy? Why are promoting this? This statement is often used by Muslim scholars to justify the existing differences and the status quo.
Let us look at the statement in details.
Al-Hafiz al-Bayhaqi in his book “al-Madkhal " and al-Zarkashi in his " Tadhkirah fi al-ahadith al-mushtaharah " relate from Imam al-Quasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr al-Siddiq that "the differences among the Companions of Muhammad (s) are a mercy for Allah's servants." Al-Hafiz al-`Iraqi, the teacher of Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani said, that this is a saying of al-Qasim ibn Muhammad.
Al-Hafiz Ibn al-Athir in his introduction to “Jami` al-Usul fi ahadith al-Rasul " attributes the above statement to Imam Malik.
We all believe in the oneness of Allah. We all believe that Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran by Allah through angel Gabriel. We all believe that the words of Quran are from Allah. We all know that the Quran did not address us as Shias or Sunnis, or Salafis or Wahabis or progressive or conservative or orthodox. We all know that the Prophet was neither a Shia nor a Sunni, nor a Hanafi, or Shafai, or Maliki, or Jafari, or Hanbali. We all know that he was not a Deobandi or Barelvi. The Prophet did not follow any of the imams or the leaders. They were the ones who tried to follow the Prophet and the Quran. We all believe that we would be questioned by the Creator of our actions and words on the Day of Judgment. We all believe that the authority of Allah is supreme.
1. Why then we differ? How come we cannot come together to resolve the differences that we have created among ourselves in the Quran and the reading of the Sunnah in the context of the Quran? How come we are unable to sit together to look into serious issues and come up with an understanding that would eliminate the differences? Is Allah's guidance so complicated that we would never be able to find the truth collectively or that we would always differ? How come our noted scholars and renowned Shayukhs describe us as Sunnis or Shafais and not just Muslims.
Where the differences in Allah's words are when He asks us to mend our personal disputes, control our anger, share our resources with people, and show kindness to our neighbours, elders, disabled or helpless? Where is the confusion in the words of Allah and the practice of the Prophet in the recitation of the Quran and the offering of the prayers? Where is the ambiguity in the words of Allah when he asks to be respectful to life and avoid bloodshed? Where the confusion in the message that tells us forgiveness is preferred by Allah?
Through these sectarian divisions and ideological differences, we have turned the guidance of Allah into a human-made religion. We have polluted it and we have changed its essence to suit our cultural, financial, political and so called spiritual interests?
We are guilty of vulgarizing our faith. We are guilty of confusing the seekers of truth with our meaningless differences. We have created a situation where a new comer does not come to Islam even after accepting Shahadah but comes to a sect or an ideology or a sub-sect that claims the right to speak on behalf of Islam.
The problem with us is that we have maligned our own prophet by attributing statements to him that defy the very logic of faith. We are so arrogant that we are imposing our weaknesses on our prophet and spending our time justifying our position in the name of God and Prophet. How loathsome is our attitude and behaviour?
We have mesmerized the people with our own rhetoric that an average person does not get time to reflect on the essence of true faith. He and she are forced to go into a maze prepared by the leaders of sects and ideologies in the name of God. A simple religion has been turned into a complex ideology.
But the only comforting point is that the point of reference, i.e. the Quran is present in its original form and anyone can approach it and verify the claim of any sect on the basis of the guidance of Allah. But the problem is that the Shaikh says that the Quran cannot be understood by people by themselves. This is another lie that is being promoted in the name of God and his Messenger. This is the lie that is delivered in many of our Islamic Centers and Masaajid all over the world. What a moment of shame that in the house of God, we are doing everything possible to belittle His message. Let us at least start identifying ourselves as Muslims and not as Shias, or Sunnis, or Salafis, or Wahabis or progressive or Orthodox. We are Muslims believing in the words of Allah and Sunna of our Prophet.
http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-se ... rcy/d/8207
Re: Shias and Sunnis
u talking of unity makes me laughMuslim First wrote:Br Zinger
You have to change your frame of mind to have unity.
At our mosque I see Shia brothers attend Jumma prayers, openly pray with hands on side and some even put piece of clay on floor. Nobody bothers them.
Once During Ramadan Shia center is invited for Iftar and combined group prays behind Shia and Sunni Imam.
It is rigid attitude.
Just like you see no slavery in people standing with folded hands while I see total slavery.
you filthy old man
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Muslim First wrote:What do you mean?Since you have posted this, im assuming you stand by the statement above.
Government forcing you to pray behind person who is not your prayer leader.
How would you feel if GOI will force you to pray behind Hindu priest?
Change happens voluntarily, not by force.
so you admit you or Sunnis have a problem praying behind a Shia imam????
What hapened to yuor balls talks of unity now?
and talk sense, not nonsense
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
I have and have no problem praying behind Shia prayer leader.so you admit you or Sunnis have a problem praying behind a Shia imam????
I have prayed behind 12ver and Bohra Bhai Saheb.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Unity will never happenWhat hapened to yuor balls talks of unity now?
Hope many minds will change with education.
BTW
Here son of leading Has left Bohra religion.
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Muslim First wrote:Unity will never happenWhat hapened to yuor balls talks of unity now?
Hope many minds will change with education.
SORRY SIR, BUT WITH MINDS LIKE YOURS, NO AMOUNT OF EDUCATION WILL CHANGE IT
BTW
Here son of leading Has left Bohra religion.
HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY HERE
Re: Shias and Sunnis
BUT YOU ADMIT SUNNIS DO???Muslim First wrote:I have and have no problem praying behind Shia prayer leader.so you admit you or Sunnis have a problem praying behind a Shia imam????
I have prayed behind 12ver and Bohra Bhai Saheb.
SO ON ONE HAND YOU CLAIM TO BE LIBERAL, AND ON THE OTHER YOU HAVE SUCH NASTY THINGS TO SAY ABOUT OTHER SECTS. SHAME ON YOU
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
I am very liberalzinger wrote:BUT YOU ADMIT SUNNIS DO???Muslim First wrote: I have and have no problem praying behind Shia prayer leader.
I have prayed behind 12ver and Bohra Bhai Saheb.
SO ON ONE HAND YOU CLAIM TO BE LIBERAL, AND ON THE OTHER YOU HAVE SUCH NASTY THINGS TO SAY ABOUT OTHER SECTS. SHAME ON YOU
I have prayed many times behind Bohra priest.
I will pray with or behind any Muslim who do not do shirk in Namaz.
Re: Shias and Sunnis
sorry, but i find your abuses against ismailis hard to understand and hence, your point of you being liberal is thrown out of the window by me.
and if you claim Bohras do shirk then why pray behind them??? that makes you a hypocrite then
and if you claim Bohras do shirk then why pray behind them??? that makes you a hypocrite then
Re: Shias and Sunnis
It is not allowed to pray behind mushrik and one who does inspire of knowing is just as ignorant as the imam who he praying behind. There is a sahih hadith that prayer behind a mumin only. And we know that a mushrik cannot be mumin
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
I want you to visit Ismaili.net and see real face of Ismaili Khojas. They are two faced Mushriks, including their MHI.zinger wrote:sorry, but i find your abuses against ismailis hard to understand and hence, your point of you being liberal is thrown out of the window by me.
and if you claim Bohras do shirk then why pray behind them??? that makes you a hypocrite then
They practice real Takiya.
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qutub_mamajiwala
- Posts: 1051
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Re: Shias and Sunnis
whatever they practice, it is upto them. just leave them alone bro
why r u hell bent on putting ur dirty nose in their affairs?
why r u hell bent on putting ur dirty nose in their affairs?
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JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Qutub bhai, where esle can he put his dirty nose? He claims Iranians do not allow Sunnis to pray.... This seems recent, but for time immemorable, Saudis do not allow Shias to pray in Saudi Arabia.why r u hell bent on putting ur dirty nose in their affairs?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are wasting your time with this man.
Now watch he will come out with something nasty against the Ismailis and their Imam. Ignorant fool. Never seen a human being as low as him.
He looks at 15 million Ismailis well taken care of by their Imam, along with other Muslims and peoples of other faiths where Ismailis reside, and his people are wandering the desert for 68 years although their people sit on oil and golden thrones. He can't fathom that, so he goes after the Ismailis and our Imam. What a pathetic man.
As Mowla Ali says, you cannot win an argument with an ignorant man. Don't waste your time with him, brother.
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ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
When Will Muslims Unite ?
What was the Big Deal, Had the Muftis Also been One
Even before agitation against Right to Education and compulsory registration of marriages in courts could conclude, a new debate on nikah (marriage) among Deobandis and Bareilvi has started.
An Islamic institution has issued a fatwa that “a Bareilvi girl cannot boy marry Deobandi boy, as it is haram (religiously prohibited), and that the people attending such nikah ceremonies will have to renew their own nikah and their Imaan (faith in Islam).”
It means all those thousands and Lakhs of nikahs, already performed have become haram and millions of people attending these ceremonies have been deprived of their Muslim faith. Now all these will need to renew their faith and Nikah to continue their married life as a Muslim.
Going through this news I got a hearty smile on my lips after a lapse of many years. I thanked God I am not married. Had I been married, I may have got deprived of my faith too.
In a scenario where it is an open secret that both Deobandi and Bareilvi mullahs solemnise nikah, whom should we call communal and fascist? Will anybody, please answer this question of mine?
There are thousands of such examples where Deobandi Quazi has performed Nikah of a Deobandi groom with a Bareilvi bride and vice-versa. In such a case have all these Nikahs become Haram and have the people who performed Nikah and those who attended the ceremonies gone out of the fold of Islamic faith?
According to Islamic rites, all recites of Kalima and believers in Quran are Muslims. If there is any difference in ideologies and faith, it can be solved through discussions. These fatwas are strengthening the hands of the enemies of Islam.
I think Islam does not have as much danger from fascist and communal forces as it has from its own ‘half-baked’ Mullahs and Muftis. In the present age Millat-e-Islamia is on a cross road. But these ‘half-baked Mullahs and Muftis’ are concerned with their own profit only. Unity among Muslims, Ittehad-ul-Muslemin, (now unity among Ulama, Ittehad-ul-Aalemin) has become an old and forgotten story.
We, the Muslims are being hated everywhere because of differences among Ummah and Ulama. Ulama of every sect needed to sit together, to try to understand the objectives of the international conspiracies against the Muslims and Islamic world. They should have had discussions among themselves and thought of solutions of the unholy schemes being formulated by the people spreading Islamophobia and its horrific results. This is Islamophobia through which hate for Muslims is being spread. It is the result of America and Europe’s strategic steps that a man having a beard, donning a cap and wearing a ‘kurta’ is under the lens of suspicion. These people are treated either as a terrorist or a potential terrorist. Communal media has also assisted this strategy against Muslims with its full might. It is because of this Islamophobic environment that Muslims have totally lost their credibility. The reason of Islamophobism is clear; they are in awe of Muslims, their increasing population and Islam’s popularity. They are afraid of Muslims becoming politically and socially powerful enough to govern the whole world. In fact Islamophobics are trying not to let it happen, in the name of fight against terrorism.
Among all these ruins our Ulama-e-Keram and great Muftis are unconsciously engaged in strengthening the hands of the conspirators. Even in the face of such big tragedies they did not come together to solve the problems being faced by the Muslims and the Islamic world. They are unable to understand that the enemies of Islam do not see Shia, Sunni, Deobandi and Bareilvi, Sunnis and Wahhabis, when they kill; their only target is Muslims. They just wish to see Muslims destroyed and helpless, in every sphere of life. Every day there are stories of anti-Muslim massacres and Islamophobia.
Two news in the newspapers of 12th May caught my attention. First, American Airlines took an 18 months old baby as a terrorist and deplaned her along with her parents. According to ‘Terrorist Screening Centre’, an American secret agency, more than half a million Muslims are not allowed to enter America. This fact came to light when the parents of 18 months old were deplaned. They were travelling by Jet Blue Airlines from Fort Lawderwell to their house. As they took their seats in the plane, officers came and informed them that their daughter’s name “Rehana” is in the ‘No Flight List”. Names of some 5, 50,000 Muslims has been circulated in all the Airlines agencies all over the world and they have been directed not to allow them to enter America. Let it be mentioned here that after 9/11 America has established an institution namely ‘Transportation Security Administration’ which stops suspects and interrogates them for hours.
Second news is, “American scheme of destroying Harmain Sharifain Exposed”. Army officers were being trained that America’s enemy is Islam not terrorists. They were also being trained that one day Mecca and Medina will need to be destroyed like ‘Hiroshima’. The said course has now been stopped after it came to light. Course instructor Lt. Col. Matthew A. Dooley during his training to the army personnel was teaching that, “they (Muslims) hate all your values and that they can never work on the principle of mutual understanding”. American army were being taught in this course that “There is nothing like being moderate in Islam; hence they should take this religion as their enemy”. They were being taught that America is engaged in a war with the whole of world and it will possibly need to destroy Muslim holy places like Mecca and Medina with the help of nuclear weapons (Nauzobillah). Although American Defence Institution, Pentagon, has confirmed whatever was being taught is against American values and is totally irresponsible. Deputy Chief of Staff Gen. Martin Dipsy says, ‘everything is being investigated’.
Muslims have still not awakened from their deep slumber. Their holy places are being targeted. Their Quran is being burnt. Blasphemy against Muhammad (pbuh) has also become an everyday affair. But our Ulama are busy making Nikahs invalid. Common Muslims also do not seem affected by such news. Muslims are still busy enjoying Quorma, Biryani and Kebab. Protest meetings, agitations and religious statements have become a fashion of the day. I am sorry to say, but how many people and how many religious leaders join these agitations with their pure heart? I have felt and seen that their only objective is to gain political and social mileage by giving statements and joining agitations.
They talk of brotherhood, unity, guidance and “Dawah” sitting in mosques but none of these objectives are found in their everyday life. Coming out of the mosque no brother takes any brother as a brother and if he does so, he makes sure everything is being captured on the reel. Islamic leaders and scholars are no different.
Does our responsibility end by raising voices against all these unholy happenings? Should we be at ease because God has taken the responsibility of safeguarding Harmain Sharifain and that angels themselves will guard it? Do we not need to be practical and pious? We talk of American collapse but do we also not need to see our own collapse? Is it not bad to differentiate with Muslims in the name of sects? Will our enemies not take advantage of it? Is there no necessity of getting united even after so many resurrections? Do we not need to unite forgetting our small differences for the sake of big gains? Are we not going to face another disaster by making Nikahs invalid? Marriages are for making houses or breaking it? It is for unity of disunity? Where will this meanness take us?
Today Muslims need unity more than sects. Unity of all the sects could have been an answer to all the unholy wishes of our enemies. Betterment of Ummah could have brought better days for us but, alas, we are going towards our doom.
Allama Iqbal is coming to mind in this desperate situation.
Haram Pak bhi ek, Allah bhi ek Quran bhi ek
Ek hi sab ka Nabi, Deen bhi Quran bhi ek
Kya bari baat thi, Hote jo Musalma bhi ek
(There is one Haram, one God, one Quran
One Prophet, one Deen and one Quran
What was the big deal, had the Muslims also been one?)
I pay my respect to Allama Iqbal’s soul, and with his forgiveness wish to change the last line as….. “What was the big deal, had the Muftis also been one”
May God bestow wisdom and make us do good work, Ameen.
Source: Hamara Samaj, New Delhi
URL: http://newageislam.com/the-war-within-i ... one/d/7443
What was the Big Deal, Had the Muftis Also been One
Even before agitation against Right to Education and compulsory registration of marriages in courts could conclude, a new debate on nikah (marriage) among Deobandis and Bareilvi has started.
An Islamic institution has issued a fatwa that “a Bareilvi girl cannot boy marry Deobandi boy, as it is haram (religiously prohibited), and that the people attending such nikah ceremonies will have to renew their own nikah and their Imaan (faith in Islam).”
It means all those thousands and Lakhs of nikahs, already performed have become haram and millions of people attending these ceremonies have been deprived of their Muslim faith. Now all these will need to renew their faith and Nikah to continue their married life as a Muslim.
Going through this news I got a hearty smile on my lips after a lapse of many years. I thanked God I am not married. Had I been married, I may have got deprived of my faith too.
In a scenario where it is an open secret that both Deobandi and Bareilvi mullahs solemnise nikah, whom should we call communal and fascist? Will anybody, please answer this question of mine?
There are thousands of such examples where Deobandi Quazi has performed Nikah of a Deobandi groom with a Bareilvi bride and vice-versa. In such a case have all these Nikahs become Haram and have the people who performed Nikah and those who attended the ceremonies gone out of the fold of Islamic faith?
According to Islamic rites, all recites of Kalima and believers in Quran are Muslims. If there is any difference in ideologies and faith, it can be solved through discussions. These fatwas are strengthening the hands of the enemies of Islam.
I think Islam does not have as much danger from fascist and communal forces as it has from its own ‘half-baked’ Mullahs and Muftis. In the present age Millat-e-Islamia is on a cross road. But these ‘half-baked Mullahs and Muftis’ are concerned with their own profit only. Unity among Muslims, Ittehad-ul-Muslemin, (now unity among Ulama, Ittehad-ul-Aalemin) has become an old and forgotten story.
We, the Muslims are being hated everywhere because of differences among Ummah and Ulama. Ulama of every sect needed to sit together, to try to understand the objectives of the international conspiracies against the Muslims and Islamic world. They should have had discussions among themselves and thought of solutions of the unholy schemes being formulated by the people spreading Islamophobia and its horrific results. This is Islamophobia through which hate for Muslims is being spread. It is the result of America and Europe’s strategic steps that a man having a beard, donning a cap and wearing a ‘kurta’ is under the lens of suspicion. These people are treated either as a terrorist or a potential terrorist. Communal media has also assisted this strategy against Muslims with its full might. It is because of this Islamophobic environment that Muslims have totally lost their credibility. The reason of Islamophobism is clear; they are in awe of Muslims, their increasing population and Islam’s popularity. They are afraid of Muslims becoming politically and socially powerful enough to govern the whole world. In fact Islamophobics are trying not to let it happen, in the name of fight against terrorism.
Among all these ruins our Ulama-e-Keram and great Muftis are unconsciously engaged in strengthening the hands of the conspirators. Even in the face of such big tragedies they did not come together to solve the problems being faced by the Muslims and the Islamic world. They are unable to understand that the enemies of Islam do not see Shia, Sunni, Deobandi and Bareilvi, Sunnis and Wahhabis, when they kill; their only target is Muslims. They just wish to see Muslims destroyed and helpless, in every sphere of life. Every day there are stories of anti-Muslim massacres and Islamophobia.
Two news in the newspapers of 12th May caught my attention. First, American Airlines took an 18 months old baby as a terrorist and deplaned her along with her parents. According to ‘Terrorist Screening Centre’, an American secret agency, more than half a million Muslims are not allowed to enter America. This fact came to light when the parents of 18 months old were deplaned. They were travelling by Jet Blue Airlines from Fort Lawderwell to their house. As they took their seats in the plane, officers came and informed them that their daughter’s name “Rehana” is in the ‘No Flight List”. Names of some 5, 50,000 Muslims has been circulated in all the Airlines agencies all over the world and they have been directed not to allow them to enter America. Let it be mentioned here that after 9/11 America has established an institution namely ‘Transportation Security Administration’ which stops suspects and interrogates them for hours.
Second news is, “American scheme of destroying Harmain Sharifain Exposed”. Army officers were being trained that America’s enemy is Islam not terrorists. They were also being trained that one day Mecca and Medina will need to be destroyed like ‘Hiroshima’. The said course has now been stopped after it came to light. Course instructor Lt. Col. Matthew A. Dooley during his training to the army personnel was teaching that, “they (Muslims) hate all your values and that they can never work on the principle of mutual understanding”. American army were being taught in this course that “There is nothing like being moderate in Islam; hence they should take this religion as their enemy”. They were being taught that America is engaged in a war with the whole of world and it will possibly need to destroy Muslim holy places like Mecca and Medina with the help of nuclear weapons (Nauzobillah). Although American Defence Institution, Pentagon, has confirmed whatever was being taught is against American values and is totally irresponsible. Deputy Chief of Staff Gen. Martin Dipsy says, ‘everything is being investigated’.
Muslims have still not awakened from their deep slumber. Their holy places are being targeted. Their Quran is being burnt. Blasphemy against Muhammad (pbuh) has also become an everyday affair. But our Ulama are busy making Nikahs invalid. Common Muslims also do not seem affected by such news. Muslims are still busy enjoying Quorma, Biryani and Kebab. Protest meetings, agitations and religious statements have become a fashion of the day. I am sorry to say, but how many people and how many religious leaders join these agitations with their pure heart? I have felt and seen that their only objective is to gain political and social mileage by giving statements and joining agitations.
They talk of brotherhood, unity, guidance and “Dawah” sitting in mosques but none of these objectives are found in their everyday life. Coming out of the mosque no brother takes any brother as a brother and if he does so, he makes sure everything is being captured on the reel. Islamic leaders and scholars are no different.
Does our responsibility end by raising voices against all these unholy happenings? Should we be at ease because God has taken the responsibility of safeguarding Harmain Sharifain and that angels themselves will guard it? Do we not need to be practical and pious? We talk of American collapse but do we also not need to see our own collapse? Is it not bad to differentiate with Muslims in the name of sects? Will our enemies not take advantage of it? Is there no necessity of getting united even after so many resurrections? Do we not need to unite forgetting our small differences for the sake of big gains? Are we not going to face another disaster by making Nikahs invalid? Marriages are for making houses or breaking it? It is for unity of disunity? Where will this meanness take us?
Today Muslims need unity more than sects. Unity of all the sects could have been an answer to all the unholy wishes of our enemies. Betterment of Ummah could have brought better days for us but, alas, we are going towards our doom.
Allama Iqbal is coming to mind in this desperate situation.
Haram Pak bhi ek, Allah bhi ek Quran bhi ek
Ek hi sab ka Nabi, Deen bhi Quran bhi ek
Kya bari baat thi, Hote jo Musalma bhi ek
(There is one Haram, one God, one Quran
One Prophet, one Deen and one Quran
What was the big deal, had the Muslims also been one?)
I pay my respect to Allama Iqbal’s soul, and with his forgiveness wish to change the last line as….. “What was the big deal, had the Muftis also been one”
May God bestow wisdom and make us do good work, Ameen.
Source: Hamara Samaj, New Delhi
URL: http://newageislam.com/the-war-within-i ... one/d/7443
-
ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
What’s Wrong With Us? Time For Serious Muslim Introspection
Why is the Muslim world burning? What explains this turmoil everywhere? We have long blamed the West for this mess. Perhaps it’s time we looked at our own role in contributing to this state of affairs.
Watching the latest fun and games in Iraq and the fine mess that the empire has made of the fabled Mesopotamia is both edifying and sobering. This is where it all began: Civilization, society, culture, art and perhaps life itself. The home of Euphrates and Tigris, the cradle of civilization.
This is the land of Dar Al Hikma, the house of wisdom from where the light of knowledge shone across the world and saw the Muslim civilization touch the pinnacle of its glory.
This is where the magical world of the thousand and one nights came alive and Scheherazade spawned myriad fantastic tales. This is where scholars like Imam Abu Hanifa taught tens of thousands of seekers of knowledge who came from far corners of the known world.
This is where Imam Hussain, the great martyred grandson of the Prophet, lies buried. He went down, with the rest of his family in Karbala, valiantly fighting in what is known as the ultimate epic battle between the good and evil.
It remains the most tragic event in Islamic history and – that of the world – as it saw the Prophet’s grandson and almost the entire family martyred at the hands of his followers. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time that Iraq would see the bloodletting of Muslims at the hands of fellow believers.
Iraq is witnessing another epic battle today, perhaps to end all battles, as they always claim.
Iraq’s Grand Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani last week called for a jihad to fight the marching hordes of ISIS fighters. It is a battle between the good and evil, insisted his spokesperson during the Friday sermon.
In response, tens of thousands of Shia men, young and old, are rushing to enroll themselves, many of them from neighboring countries and even doctors and professionals living and working in Western climes, in what they see as the ‘holy war.’
Given the sharp, sectarian battle-lines already drawn across the Middle East, we may be in for an Armageddon, a free-for-all war that threatens to consume the whole of Islamic world.
Is this indeed a battle between the good and evil though? Who is right and who is wrong? There are no easy, simple answers. What I see is a fratricide, a battle between brothers. What I see is the red tide of Muslim blood drowning and overwhelming the borders of the Middle East.
And whoever wins in this war, in the end it is the so-called Ummah and all that it stands for which will be the loser. It already seems to have lost. You will have to experience the sweetness and light that the Sunnis and Shias have been spreading against each other in social media and from the pulpit to know what I mean.
In response to my piece about Iraq last week, I received scores of mails from both sides of the divide. All of them accusing me of taking the other’s side while listing the historical crimes the other side apparently visited on their community. I didn’t know we were capable of such unadulterated hatred and spite against our own!
I wonder if they follow the same faith, the same Book and the same Prophet? How did we end up here? Of course, much of this mess in Iraq – comedian Jon Stewart rightly calls it Mess-o-potamia – and extended neighborhood is a legacy of the empire.
The role our Israeli and Zionist friends have played in the US invasion of Iraq is also well known and documented. Indeed, their shenanigans aren’t confined to Iraq. The whole of the Middle East remains the target.
The object is not just an all-powerful Greater Israel, from the river to the sea. The plan envisions and necessitates the dismemberment and dispossession of the whole neighborhood. This is what the Zionists and Christian extremists have long dreamed of and have been working towards it–silently and dispassionately.
I am not a sucker for conspiracy theories. But this growing Shia-Sunni fratricide from Arabia to Central Asia fits in nicely with the plot. And those who promote and fuel sectarian hatred and call for arms against each other, in the name of Sunni or Shia Islam, are deliberately or otherwise advancing the designs and agenda of those who see Islam as the last stumbling block in the way to their total global hegemony.
And these so-called champions of faith, these spurious scholars issuing edicts declaring each other apostate and justifying the killing of innocent Muslims have proved themselves far more dangerous and harmful than our open enemies. For they sit in our midst to undermine us from within.
You cannot go on blaming the West and Israel for all our woes. In this respect, our own incredible talents haven’t exactly been found wanting–from perpetually plotting against each other to abusing power by our elites.
Despite all the resources including oil which is the lifeblood of global economy being at their disposal all these years, if Muslim countries remain so far behind the rest of the world on every front, who is to blame?
Look at the farce that has been going on in the name of democracy and justice in the neighborhood. Those who dared to bring about the change by way of democracy and through peaceful means find themselves behind the bars. The messenger is shot down with the message.
And those who lectured us ad infinitum about democracy, freedom and free speech look the other way as these very ideals are trampled upon with an audacity that is breathtaking. If Orwell had lived long enough he would have to invent a new language and grammar to make sense of the state of affairs prevailing today.
Is it any wonder then the groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Taliban are increasingly winning? When the voices of reason, sanity and peace are suppressed, when people are denied their legitimate aspirations and are deprived of their basic human dignity, extremism wins.
This is what is happening across the region, from the edge of Africa to Arab Maghreb and Iraq and Syria (western commentators have started calling it ‘Syraq’!) to Pakistan and Afghanistan and beyond.
For far too long, Muslim intellectuals and governments have urged–and rightly of course—the Western powers to look at the roots of this conflict to understand the phenomenon of extremism and violence in the region and around the world. Perhaps, it is about time we pose the same question to ourselves.
What has been our own—both individual and collective—role in contributing to this state of all-round chaos and corruption? Surely, we wouldn’t have come this far entirely without some of our own efforts and double standards helping it.
Why the Middle East remains stuck in a time warp and with absolutism, oppression and corruption in the 21st century when the rest of the world has moved on is something that all of us–especially our elites, intellectuals and politicians–need to ask ourselves.
This is certainly not something that our faith gifted us. It came to liberate us. Those who truly embraced it transformed the world. It is who have invented all these chains and bonds to enslave ourselves. It is we who chose to remain unfree and prisoners of monsters of our own creation. Perhaps, it is about time we faced our demons.
By Aijaz Zaka Syed
Why is the Muslim world burning? What explains this turmoil everywhere? We have long blamed the West for this mess. Perhaps it’s time we looked at our own role in contributing to this state of affairs.
Watching the latest fun and games in Iraq and the fine mess that the empire has made of the fabled Mesopotamia is both edifying and sobering. This is where it all began: Civilization, society, culture, art and perhaps life itself. The home of Euphrates and Tigris, the cradle of civilization.
This is the land of Dar Al Hikma, the house of wisdom from where the light of knowledge shone across the world and saw the Muslim civilization touch the pinnacle of its glory.
This is where the magical world of the thousand and one nights came alive and Scheherazade spawned myriad fantastic tales. This is where scholars like Imam Abu Hanifa taught tens of thousands of seekers of knowledge who came from far corners of the known world.
This is where Imam Hussain, the great martyred grandson of the Prophet, lies buried. He went down, with the rest of his family in Karbala, valiantly fighting in what is known as the ultimate epic battle between the good and evil.
It remains the most tragic event in Islamic history and – that of the world – as it saw the Prophet’s grandson and almost the entire family martyred at the hands of his followers. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time that Iraq would see the bloodletting of Muslims at the hands of fellow believers.
Iraq is witnessing another epic battle today, perhaps to end all battles, as they always claim.
Iraq’s Grand Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani last week called for a jihad to fight the marching hordes of ISIS fighters. It is a battle between the good and evil, insisted his spokesperson during the Friday sermon.
In response, tens of thousands of Shia men, young and old, are rushing to enroll themselves, many of them from neighboring countries and even doctors and professionals living and working in Western climes, in what they see as the ‘holy war.’
Given the sharp, sectarian battle-lines already drawn across the Middle East, we may be in for an Armageddon, a free-for-all war that threatens to consume the whole of Islamic world.
Is this indeed a battle between the good and evil though? Who is right and who is wrong? There are no easy, simple answers. What I see is a fratricide, a battle between brothers. What I see is the red tide of Muslim blood drowning and overwhelming the borders of the Middle East.
And whoever wins in this war, in the end it is the so-called Ummah and all that it stands for which will be the loser. It already seems to have lost. You will have to experience the sweetness and light that the Sunnis and Shias have been spreading against each other in social media and from the pulpit to know what I mean.
In response to my piece about Iraq last week, I received scores of mails from both sides of the divide. All of them accusing me of taking the other’s side while listing the historical crimes the other side apparently visited on their community. I didn’t know we were capable of such unadulterated hatred and spite against our own!
I wonder if they follow the same faith, the same Book and the same Prophet? How did we end up here? Of course, much of this mess in Iraq – comedian Jon Stewart rightly calls it Mess-o-potamia – and extended neighborhood is a legacy of the empire.
The role our Israeli and Zionist friends have played in the US invasion of Iraq is also well known and documented. Indeed, their shenanigans aren’t confined to Iraq. The whole of the Middle East remains the target.
The object is not just an all-powerful Greater Israel, from the river to the sea. The plan envisions and necessitates the dismemberment and dispossession of the whole neighborhood. This is what the Zionists and Christian extremists have long dreamed of and have been working towards it–silently and dispassionately.
I am not a sucker for conspiracy theories. But this growing Shia-Sunni fratricide from Arabia to Central Asia fits in nicely with the plot. And those who promote and fuel sectarian hatred and call for arms against each other, in the name of Sunni or Shia Islam, are deliberately or otherwise advancing the designs and agenda of those who see Islam as the last stumbling block in the way to their total global hegemony.
And these so-called champions of faith, these spurious scholars issuing edicts declaring each other apostate and justifying the killing of innocent Muslims have proved themselves far more dangerous and harmful than our open enemies. For they sit in our midst to undermine us from within.
You cannot go on blaming the West and Israel for all our woes. In this respect, our own incredible talents haven’t exactly been found wanting–from perpetually plotting against each other to abusing power by our elites.
Despite all the resources including oil which is the lifeblood of global economy being at their disposal all these years, if Muslim countries remain so far behind the rest of the world on every front, who is to blame?
Look at the farce that has been going on in the name of democracy and justice in the neighborhood. Those who dared to bring about the change by way of democracy and through peaceful means find themselves behind the bars. The messenger is shot down with the message.
And those who lectured us ad infinitum about democracy, freedom and free speech look the other way as these very ideals are trampled upon with an audacity that is breathtaking. If Orwell had lived long enough he would have to invent a new language and grammar to make sense of the state of affairs prevailing today.
Is it any wonder then the groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Taliban are increasingly winning? When the voices of reason, sanity and peace are suppressed, when people are denied their legitimate aspirations and are deprived of their basic human dignity, extremism wins.
This is what is happening across the region, from the edge of Africa to Arab Maghreb and Iraq and Syria (western commentators have started calling it ‘Syraq’!) to Pakistan and Afghanistan and beyond.
For far too long, Muslim intellectuals and governments have urged–and rightly of course—the Western powers to look at the roots of this conflict to understand the phenomenon of extremism and violence in the region and around the world. Perhaps, it is about time we pose the same question to ourselves.
What has been our own—both individual and collective—role in contributing to this state of all-round chaos and corruption? Surely, we wouldn’t have come this far entirely without some of our own efforts and double standards helping it.
Why the Middle East remains stuck in a time warp and with absolutism, oppression and corruption in the 21st century when the rest of the world has moved on is something that all of us–especially our elites, intellectuals and politicians–need to ask ourselves.
This is certainly not something that our faith gifted us. It came to liberate us. Those who truly embraced it transformed the world. It is who have invented all these chains and bonds to enslave ourselves. It is we who chose to remain unfree and prisoners of monsters of our own creation. Perhaps, it is about time we faced our demons.
By Aijaz Zaka Syed
-
ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Muslim Denominations: Are You Shia Or Sunni?
It started quite early. I was seven-years-old. That’s when I first realised that there was something called a “Shia”, and people thought I was one; because in Pakistan, certain surnames are associated with being a Shia. ‘Zaidi’, one of them, sounds similar to the surname ‘Zahidi’, so I was and am often asked this question – “are you a Shia?”.
So I came home and asked my father, to which Abba replied very matter-of-factly that by faith, Shias and Sunnis are both Muslims. He explained to me that it’s like two brothers from the same family; we all love Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and his family, and are still very sad about what happened to his grandson Imam Hussain (RA). He further explained, as best as he could to a seven-year-old, that we are from the sect called Sunnis.
At that age, it didn’t seem like a big issue. But as I grew older, I realised that it was indeed a big issue. The issue, basically, is what has caused sectarian and ethnic differences and cleansings and violence over centuries; the issue that has stained many with innocent blood; the issue is that we cannot accept someone different; the issue is of us versus them, of “the others”, this religion versus that, this sect versus that, this province versus that, this ethnicity versus that.
This is an overly simplistic analysis maybe. Or maybe not. We can go into the historical causes, but history will always be partial, lack objectivity and will literally be to each his own. So we have no sure way of knowing why Sunnis and Shias have remained daggers drawn.
Society conditions us in such a way that we have a hard time coming to terms with whoever differs from us, may it be in thought process, language, ethnicity or race, caste, creed and religion. Going against what the Holy Quran tells us to do, we don’t overlook the differences and don’t concentrate on the similarities – we do just the opposite.
I was blessed that I grew up as daughter of a father who, being a Sunni by belief, made sure that solidarity with Shias was order of the day. Abba and I spent countless tenths of Muharram talking about the history of Islam and of the Karbala massacre, with him telling me both sides of the story. He would tell me to not listen to music loudly or not do anything on that day that would hurt the sentiments of Shia neighbours or friends. And he made sure that I understand that differences in perspectives are “natural, because Allah has created each one of us differently, and our circumstances shape us. Therefore, give each other margin”. His words have stayed with me.
Sadly, many of us stereotype the others. Sometimes, you will catch one side whispering amongst themselves about the other. We are scandalised when the other group’s namaz is somewhat different, seemingly, or they break their fast in Ramadan slightly earlier or later. Same Allah, same Messenger (SAW), same Quran just doesn’t seem enough, and so we stereotype each other.
Polarisation between Shias and Sunnis has resulted in followers conveniently deciding to divide, amongst them, the companions of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
“So I am going with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RA) and you go with ‘Ali, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain (RA) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) family. In my religious literature and talks, I will talk about Ayesha (RA) and you can talk about Fatima (RA). For guidance, I can look at the rulings of Abdullah bin Masood (RA) and you can choose Abdullah bin Abbas (RA).”
The worst form of reactionary psychology is then to hit where it hurts the most – disrespecting the ideas or the people the other group holds sacred. Thus, those who were closest to Allah get dragged in our tug of war – a war which makes no sense.
However, when it comes to Hajj or Umrah, both groups are peacefully praying in the same rows, embracing the differences and celebrating the commonalities. They are performing Tawaf of the same Holy Kaa’bah, doing Sa’ee together between Safa and Marwa, and praying from the same Holy book, though they may differ at times in how they interpret it. Why not carry the same acceptance with them outside the haram too, and say to each other from the heart “Assalamu’Alaikum” (Peace be upon you)?
But that does not seem to work, and I don’t know why.
What I do know is that for the longest time, every year in Muharram, we pray that these days pass without any casualties. What I do know is that year after year, innocent lives are lost – in retaliation, in reaction. Hatred takes over peace. Anger takes over sanity. The real face of Islam gets blurred, ironically on these most special of days for Muslims.
There is very little we can do about it, except start looking inward, reflect where we let stereotypes rule us, and where we crossed a line and forgot that there is no compulsion in religion.
I am a Sunni, and I peacefully remain one by choice. But another human has an equal right to follow whatever path they want to. The followers of all faiths must feel secure and not be punished for what they believe in. Humanity, peace and the true message of Islam is bigger than these denominations.
http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-se ... i?/d/99862
It started quite early. I was seven-years-old. That’s when I first realised that there was something called a “Shia”, and people thought I was one; because in Pakistan, certain surnames are associated with being a Shia. ‘Zaidi’, one of them, sounds similar to the surname ‘Zahidi’, so I was and am often asked this question – “are you a Shia?”.
So I came home and asked my father, to which Abba replied very matter-of-factly that by faith, Shias and Sunnis are both Muslims. He explained to me that it’s like two brothers from the same family; we all love Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and his family, and are still very sad about what happened to his grandson Imam Hussain (RA). He further explained, as best as he could to a seven-year-old, that we are from the sect called Sunnis.
At that age, it didn’t seem like a big issue. But as I grew older, I realised that it was indeed a big issue. The issue, basically, is what has caused sectarian and ethnic differences and cleansings and violence over centuries; the issue that has stained many with innocent blood; the issue is that we cannot accept someone different; the issue is of us versus them, of “the others”, this religion versus that, this sect versus that, this province versus that, this ethnicity versus that.
This is an overly simplistic analysis maybe. Or maybe not. We can go into the historical causes, but history will always be partial, lack objectivity and will literally be to each his own. So we have no sure way of knowing why Sunnis and Shias have remained daggers drawn.
Society conditions us in such a way that we have a hard time coming to terms with whoever differs from us, may it be in thought process, language, ethnicity or race, caste, creed and religion. Going against what the Holy Quran tells us to do, we don’t overlook the differences and don’t concentrate on the similarities – we do just the opposite.
I was blessed that I grew up as daughter of a father who, being a Sunni by belief, made sure that solidarity with Shias was order of the day. Abba and I spent countless tenths of Muharram talking about the history of Islam and of the Karbala massacre, with him telling me both sides of the story. He would tell me to not listen to music loudly or not do anything on that day that would hurt the sentiments of Shia neighbours or friends. And he made sure that I understand that differences in perspectives are “natural, because Allah has created each one of us differently, and our circumstances shape us. Therefore, give each other margin”. His words have stayed with me.
Sadly, many of us stereotype the others. Sometimes, you will catch one side whispering amongst themselves about the other. We are scandalised when the other group’s namaz is somewhat different, seemingly, or they break their fast in Ramadan slightly earlier or later. Same Allah, same Messenger (SAW), same Quran just doesn’t seem enough, and so we stereotype each other.
Polarisation between Shias and Sunnis has resulted in followers conveniently deciding to divide, amongst them, the companions of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
“So I am going with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RA) and you go with ‘Ali, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain (RA) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) family. In my religious literature and talks, I will talk about Ayesha (RA) and you can talk about Fatima (RA). For guidance, I can look at the rulings of Abdullah bin Masood (RA) and you can choose Abdullah bin Abbas (RA).”
The worst form of reactionary psychology is then to hit where it hurts the most – disrespecting the ideas or the people the other group holds sacred. Thus, those who were closest to Allah get dragged in our tug of war – a war which makes no sense.
However, when it comes to Hajj or Umrah, both groups are peacefully praying in the same rows, embracing the differences and celebrating the commonalities. They are performing Tawaf of the same Holy Kaa’bah, doing Sa’ee together between Safa and Marwa, and praying from the same Holy book, though they may differ at times in how they interpret it. Why not carry the same acceptance with them outside the haram too, and say to each other from the heart “Assalamu’Alaikum” (Peace be upon you)?
But that does not seem to work, and I don’t know why.
What I do know is that for the longest time, every year in Muharram, we pray that these days pass without any casualties. What I do know is that year after year, innocent lives are lost – in retaliation, in reaction. Hatred takes over peace. Anger takes over sanity. The real face of Islam gets blurred, ironically on these most special of days for Muslims.
There is very little we can do about it, except start looking inward, reflect where we let stereotypes rule us, and where we crossed a line and forgot that there is no compulsion in religion.
I am a Sunni, and I peacefully remain one by choice. But another human has an equal right to follow whatever path they want to. The followers of all faiths must feel secure and not be punished for what they believe in. Humanity, peace and the true message of Islam is bigger than these denominations.
http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-se ... i?/d/99862
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ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Excerpts from a very interesting article :-
Origin of the Divide
The origin of this divide — the principal fault line within Islam — goes back 14 centuries to the very beginning of Islam. Interestingly, there was nothing religious about it at the beginning as it was a purely political dispute over which an entire theological and jurisprudential edifice was superimposed later on in order to canonise and perpetuate it into a distinctive clerical order. At the core of the dispute was an impassioned argument over whether the principle of succession in the nascent Muslim state should be dynastic or meritorious. The majority of Muslims in the early years of the faith chose merit over dynasty and argued that the prophet’s temporal and spiritual successors should be selected on the basis of their competence, seniority, knowledge and experience. A minority disagreed and said the basis of succession should be familial rather than meritorious. They believed the temporal and spiritual leadership of Muslim society should remain confined to the descendants of the prophet forever.
They thought Ali — the younger cousin and son-in-law of the prophet — deserved the honour, as he was not only a staunch companion of the prophet but also his closest family member by virtue of birth and marriage. Shia is an abbreviation for Shia’t Ali, the party of Ali, and is built around the victimhood of the prophet’s family following his death. The Sunnis do not dispute the importance of Ali and do not disparage him in any way; they consider him one of the greatest companions of the prophet along with the others, including the three other caliphs who preceded Ali in the seat of power. In a way, the difference between Sunni and Shia approaches to Ali is comparable to the difference between Islamic and Christian approaches to Jesus Christ. While both the religions converge on the greatness of Jesus as a man of God, they diverge on questions of his divinity and deification. Just as no Muslim will ever disparage Jesus, no Sunni will ever speak ill of Ali. Like in the case of the two Semitic religions, it was the differences and not the commonalities that were given accent throughout history, resulting in an entrenched culture of de-sacralisation and demonisation of the other on both sides. The fact that the two sects chose to follow totally different references in their respective approaches to jurisprudence and theology widened the gulf further over the centuries. With the exception of the Quran, which in any case has been susceptible to multiple and often contradictory interpretations, there are no religious or historical references that the Sunnis and Shias agree on.
Point Of Agreement
What is most interesting in this context is that both the sects agree on the need for an Islamic political system on earth. While the Islamists on both sides argue for the primacy of an Islamic state, the others express minor disagreements on questions of prioritising an Islamic state over those of building an Islamic society. No known mainstream religious organisation among both the sects rejects the idea of an Islamic majoritarian state as a desired eventuality. There is total consensus among all that justice will flourish only in such a state where the Sharia would replace all other sources and methods of legislation. What about justice for those who belong to other faiths or no faiths is a minor detail glossed over by self-righteous rhetoric.
This brings us to one of the most exasperating paradoxes in Islamic history. While the only consensus that ever existed across the sects in Islam has been on the desirability of (an immediate or eventual) Islamic state governed according to the Sharia, the principal divide of all times in Muslim society happened because there was no clear concept of a state or political system in Islam. It goes without saying that the method of electing the ruler is the most basic part of any political system, the absence of clarity on which triggered the first and foremost split among the Muslims. The festering wounds of that split continue to bleed the community to this day.
The Quran and the Prophet’s rich traditions left the choice of political systems or the nature of the state to the wisdom of the people and their circumstances. The followers, however, persisted with their delusional search for a theocratic utopia, denuding a faith of its humane core in the process. The Quran stressed on persuasion in matters of faith while the Islamists saw coercion (with the state being its ultimate and most legitimate instrument) as the only method for preservation of the faith. Iran will do all it can to stop the ISIS warriors in their tracks. ISIS will be happy to eradicate the Islamic Republic of Iran. But both will marshal the same set of arguments for the establishment and perpetuation of an Islamic state as well as for the disempowerment of each other in their respective spheres of influence.
In Iraq, for instance, Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki and his cohorts will be perfectly happy to replicate the Iranian Vilayat-e-Faqih model of state in Iraq and disenfranchise the Sunni minority. The ISIS will be delighted to establish their model of Islamic state and disenfranchise the Shia majority. Both parties will advance the same arguments to justify and Islamise their brutalities. Creation of a hell here in the name of the hereafter is the fundamental objective of all varieties of Islamism, despite their invocation of justice and divine will in every other sentence they write or speak.
Source: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/t ... epage=true
Origin of the Divide
The origin of this divide — the principal fault line within Islam — goes back 14 centuries to the very beginning of Islam. Interestingly, there was nothing religious about it at the beginning as it was a purely political dispute over which an entire theological and jurisprudential edifice was superimposed later on in order to canonise and perpetuate it into a distinctive clerical order. At the core of the dispute was an impassioned argument over whether the principle of succession in the nascent Muslim state should be dynastic or meritorious. The majority of Muslims in the early years of the faith chose merit over dynasty and argued that the prophet’s temporal and spiritual successors should be selected on the basis of their competence, seniority, knowledge and experience. A minority disagreed and said the basis of succession should be familial rather than meritorious. They believed the temporal and spiritual leadership of Muslim society should remain confined to the descendants of the prophet forever.
They thought Ali — the younger cousin and son-in-law of the prophet — deserved the honour, as he was not only a staunch companion of the prophet but also his closest family member by virtue of birth and marriage. Shia is an abbreviation for Shia’t Ali, the party of Ali, and is built around the victimhood of the prophet’s family following his death. The Sunnis do not dispute the importance of Ali and do not disparage him in any way; they consider him one of the greatest companions of the prophet along with the others, including the three other caliphs who preceded Ali in the seat of power. In a way, the difference between Sunni and Shia approaches to Ali is comparable to the difference between Islamic and Christian approaches to Jesus Christ. While both the religions converge on the greatness of Jesus as a man of God, they diverge on questions of his divinity and deification. Just as no Muslim will ever disparage Jesus, no Sunni will ever speak ill of Ali. Like in the case of the two Semitic religions, it was the differences and not the commonalities that were given accent throughout history, resulting in an entrenched culture of de-sacralisation and demonisation of the other on both sides. The fact that the two sects chose to follow totally different references in their respective approaches to jurisprudence and theology widened the gulf further over the centuries. With the exception of the Quran, which in any case has been susceptible to multiple and often contradictory interpretations, there are no religious or historical references that the Sunnis and Shias agree on.
Point Of Agreement
What is most interesting in this context is that both the sects agree on the need for an Islamic political system on earth. While the Islamists on both sides argue for the primacy of an Islamic state, the others express minor disagreements on questions of prioritising an Islamic state over those of building an Islamic society. No known mainstream religious organisation among both the sects rejects the idea of an Islamic majoritarian state as a desired eventuality. There is total consensus among all that justice will flourish only in such a state where the Sharia would replace all other sources and methods of legislation. What about justice for those who belong to other faiths or no faiths is a minor detail glossed over by self-righteous rhetoric.
This brings us to one of the most exasperating paradoxes in Islamic history. While the only consensus that ever existed across the sects in Islam has been on the desirability of (an immediate or eventual) Islamic state governed according to the Sharia, the principal divide of all times in Muslim society happened because there was no clear concept of a state or political system in Islam. It goes without saying that the method of electing the ruler is the most basic part of any political system, the absence of clarity on which triggered the first and foremost split among the Muslims. The festering wounds of that split continue to bleed the community to this day.
The Quran and the Prophet’s rich traditions left the choice of political systems or the nature of the state to the wisdom of the people and their circumstances. The followers, however, persisted with their delusional search for a theocratic utopia, denuding a faith of its humane core in the process. The Quran stressed on persuasion in matters of faith while the Islamists saw coercion (with the state being its ultimate and most legitimate instrument) as the only method for preservation of the faith. Iran will do all it can to stop the ISIS warriors in their tracks. ISIS will be happy to eradicate the Islamic Republic of Iran. But both will marshal the same set of arguments for the establishment and perpetuation of an Islamic state as well as for the disempowerment of each other in their respective spheres of influence.
In Iraq, for instance, Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki and his cohorts will be perfectly happy to replicate the Iranian Vilayat-e-Faqih model of state in Iraq and disenfranchise the Sunni minority. The ISIS will be delighted to establish their model of Islamic state and disenfranchise the Shia majority. Both parties will advance the same arguments to justify and Islamise their brutalities. Creation of a hell here in the name of the hereafter is the fundamental objective of all varieties of Islamism, despite their invocation of justice and divine will in every other sentence they write or speak.
Source: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/t ... epage=true
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qutub_mamajiwala
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
very good and correct article and analysis
only if it is read by for whom it is meant.
hope anjami and khokhawala are listening
only if it is read by for whom it is meant.
hope anjami and khokhawala are listening
Re: Shias and Sunnis
As long as you read it, I am ok.
Re: Shias and Sunnis
The essence of the article is to 'rise above' ............... can Shias do that?? If they can just start with simple thing, stop Lanat Baazi ...........
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Hey Chump, can Sunnis do that? Look at what your brave Sunni Muslims did in Peshawar yesterdayJC wrote:The essence of the article is to 'rise above' ............... can Shias do that?? If they can just start with simple thing, stop Lanat Baazi ...........
See that finger you are pointing at Shias? See those 4 fingers pointing back at you???
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Zinger, The terrorists who struck in Peshawar were not human beings ............. forget them being followers of any religion or sect ......... they are a cult.
Please do not put every evil thing happening in the world in the 'khata' of Sunnis or even Wahabis .............. RISE Above..!!!
Please do not put every evil thing happening in the world in the 'khata' of Sunnis or even Wahabis .............. RISE Above..!!!