Abde 1/2/3

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badrijanab
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Abde 1/2/3

#1

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:58 am

(1) Imamt required after Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. per Quran: 21:73, 13:7, 17:71, 19:96 & 97, 4:59, etc

(2) Challenge: Show one aayat in Quran that says: Prophet will be succeeded by "Caliphs" who will be elected by public voting?

(3) Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. sunnat is not to pry Naafil namaaz in Imamat. But you and alike do, so every time you pry Tarawi namaaz you are breaching Sunnat of Prophet.

(4) To speak anything non-Quranic during Salaat nullifies/break the salaat. You shout "aameen" in namaaz - there is no word like this in Quran so all like you in past 1400 years from birth till death have never offered single Salaat.

(5) In namaaz one have to recite the compete Sura i.e. incomplete Sura cannot be recited. Sura Fatiha is the most important Sura that one every Rakaat you have to recite it. But see the curse of Allah on you: You do not recite "Bismillah hir Rahamn nor Raheem" before Sura Fatiha and start directly with "Alhamdo lillah...". So again all like you in past 1400 years have never ever from their birth till death have even offered one salaat.

(6) Point# 4 & 5 infers that you will with no record of Salaat will surely end only in one place = hell.

(7) Challenge: Show from your own Siha-Sitta just one hadees of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. that he has appointed your 1/2/3 as the authorised person after him to represent Islam or take decision in relation to Shariyat or add/amend the Shariyat? You failed. You cannot produce it hence all alteration and additions done by 1/2/3 are pure biddat and you all following 1/2/3 are practicing biddat indeed.

(8) You all are such fools that you consider Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. as illiterate and full of flaws. If in religious or non-religious matter if he is prone to commit error then why you follow him? By following him you too are committing similar error. When cornered fools quote Bukhari's forged hadees of Date plantation. I ask prove: If Bukhar is speaking 100% truth? Fools fails to prove this challenge but they are ready to believe the lies of Bukhari but will not trust Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. that Prophet s.a.w.w. does commit error!!!! Bukhari cannot commit error but Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. can!!! What fools these abde 1/2/3 are!!!

(9) Besides our books, your own Bukhari says that after Mola Ali a.s. accession to Caliphate, after the first namaaz the attendees were heard commenting: "Today we offered the namaaz in the same way that we use to offer during the days of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w." This mean that 1/2/3 have not lead the Namaaz the way that Prophet use to offer. You follow 1/2/3 hence your namaaz too is not like that of Prophet. And we follow Mola Ali a.s. hence our namaaz is ditto that of Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w.

(10) In context of religious matters - 1/2/3 seek and inquired their queries with Mola Ali a.s. but Mola Ali a.s. never asked or inquired with 1/2/3 it proves that Knowledge of Mola Ali a.s. was superior than 1/2/3. And that was the reason that your 2nd always use to say: "Agar Ali na hote to 2nd halaak ho jata." Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. said, "I'm the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate." To counter this Abde 1/2/3 forged hadees, "I am the city of knowledge and 2nd is the ceiling of it...." Naqal me aqal kho di. No cities have ceiling but does have gate!!!

anajmi
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Re: Abde 1/2/3

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:59 am

Thankfully, there are no muslims out there who refer to themselves as Abde 1/2/3.

Muslim First
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Re: Abde 1/2/3

#3

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:03 pm

Let us take Aya by Aya as per BJ's post
Q21:73

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ ﴿21:73﴾
(21:73)We appointed them leaders who guided others by Our Command. We also enjoined them by Revelation to do righteous deeds and establish Salat and pay Zakat dues, and they all worshipped Us. *66

*comment 66
This important event of the life of Prophet Abraham has found no mention whatever in the Bible. In fact nothing about his life in `Iraq -his conflict with Nimrod, his father and the community at large, his efforts to eradicate idolatry, the incident of his being cast into the fire, which ultimately led to his forced exile from the country-is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. The Bible merely mentions his migration, and that too, in a manner as if a family was migrating from one country to another in search of livelihood. There is another interesting difference between the Qur'an and the Bible. According to the Qur'an, the father of Abraham, who was a mushrik, was foremost in tyrannizing over his son, but the Bible gives a different account, which is as follows:
"Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees. And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah. But Sarai was barren; she had no child. And Terah took Abram 'his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and settled there. And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran." (Gen. 11:27-32).
"Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And 1 will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Gen. 12: 1-3).
The Talmud, however, gives quite a few details about the life of Prophet Abraham about the period of his stay in `Iraq, which are generally the same as given in the Qur'an, but there is a glaring discrepancy in some of the important events. In fact, one can clearly feel that the account given in the Talmud is full of heterogeneous and hypothetical things while the one given in the Qur'an is most clear and contains nothing unworthy of Prophet Abraham. We reproduce below the account as given in the Talmud so that the reader may know the difference between the Quranic and Jewish versions. This will also remove the misunderstanding of those who think that the Qur'an has borrowed stories from the Bible or Jewish literature.
According to the Talmud, "The wise men saw a large star in the sky on the night Abram was born and they advised Nimrod to kill the child born in the house of Terah. The King decided to kill the child but Terah hid his child and had a servant's son killed in exchange. Terah thereupon hid his wife and child in a cave where they lived for ten years. In the 11th year Abram was taken by Terah to Noah, where he lived under the guidance of Noah and his son Shem for 39 years. During the same period Abram married his niece Sarai, who was 42 years his junior. (The Bible does not mention that Sarai was the niece of Abram; moreover, the difference in their ages is mentioned as ten years). (Gen. 11: 29, 17: 17).
The Talmud then says, "Abram left Noah at the age of 50 and came back to his father. Here he found that his father was an idolatry and had twelve idols in the house according to the twelve months of the year. He tried to preach to his father against idolatry but when the latter did not listen to him, Abram one day broke all the idols in the house. Seeing this Terah went straight to Nimrod and complained that the son who was born in his house 50 years ago had misbehaved and broken the idols. He wanted the King's verdict on this. Nimrod sununoned Abram for interrogation, but the replies given by Abram were straight, terse and clear. Nimrod sent him to jail and then referred the matter to the Council for a decision. The Council decided that Abram should be burnt to death. A fire was accordingly prepared and Abram was cast into it. His brother and father-in-law Haran was also similarly cast into the fire. Haran was punished because Nimrod enquired of Terah as to why he had another child killed in place of Abram when he wanted to kill Abram on the day of his birth. Terah replied that this was done at the instigation of Haran. Nimrod accordingly let off Terah but threw Haran into the fire along with Abram. Haran was burnt to death instantly but people saw that Abram was walking unhurt through the flames. When Nimrod was informed of it, he witnessed it with his own eyes and cried out: `O man of the God of Heaven, come out of the fire and stand before me'. Thereupon, Abram came out and Nimrod became one of his .believers and gave him many costly presents. After this, according to the Talmud, Abram stayed in `Iraq for two more years when Nimrod saw a dreadful dream and the astrologers told him that the destruction of his empire .would come through Abram and that he should, therefore, put him to death. Nimrod sent people to kill Abram but Abram came to know of the plot before-hand through Eleazar, a slave presented to him by Nimrod himself. Abram accordingly fled and took refuge with Noah where Terah also met him off and on secretly. The father and the son at last decided to leave the country and Noah and his son Shem also approved of their plan. Accordingly, Terah along with his son Abram and his grandson Lot and his grand-daughter and son's wife Sarai, left U: and went to Haran." (H. Polano: The Talmud Selections, London, pp. 30-42).
Can a reasonable person after reading this account of the Talmud ever imagine that this could be a source book for the story as given in the Qur'an


This Aya needs to read with previous Ayas
These are associated with previous Prophets.
This has nothing to do about appointing Imam Ali after Prophet
I will post about other Ayas next

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abde 1/2/3

#4

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:17 pm

Q13:7

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آَيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ ﴿13:7﴾
(13:7) These people who have rejected your Message, say, "Why has no Sign been sent down to this person from His Lord " *15 -You are a warner only and every people has its guide. *16

Comment *15 This showed their mentality. The only criterion of judging whether Muhammad (Allah's peace be upon him) was a true Prophet or not according to these disbelievers, was whether he would perform a miracle to order. This was because they would not judge his Message by rational arguments: they would not learn a lesson from his high character nor from the moral revolution that was being brought about among his Companions by his Message and noble example: nor would they carefully consider the rational arguments given in the Qur'an to prove the errors of their religion of shirk and superstitions of ignorance. They would ignore these rational things and demand a miracle to decide the issue.
Comment*16 This is the concise answer to their demand, though it has not been directly addressed to the disbelievers but to the Messenger. It is this: "O Prophet, you should not worry at alI about some miracle which you might show to these people in order to convince them, for it is not a part of your Mission. Your duty is only to warn the people of their negligence and of the evil consequences of their wrong ways. And for this purpose, We have always sent a guide to every people. Now you, too, arc performing this duty, and it is for them to open their eyes and judge the truth of your Message." After giving this concise answer, Allah overlooks their demand but warns them, in the succeeding verses, that they have to deal with the All-Knowing AIlah Who has full knowledge about everyone of them from the time they were in the wombs of their mothers, and Who keeps a keen watch over everything they do. Therefore their fates shall be decided strictly with justice in accordance with their merits and that there is no power on the earth and in the heavens that can influence in the least His decisions and judgements.

This Aya is saying Allah has sent Prophet as guide to his people
Nothing about future generation of Muslims
We have Quran and Authentic Sunna as Guide
Shia should read Ayas before and after to see what is all about

Muslim First
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Re: Abde 1/2/3

#5

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:20 pm

Do you want me to go on posting understanding of Ayas 17:71, 19:96 & 97, 4:59, etc?

Muslim First
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Re: Abde 1/2/3

#6

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:42 pm

Badrijanaab
(2) Challenge: Show one aayat in Quran that says: Prophet will be succeeded by "Caliphs" who will be elected by public voting?
No need for challange
There was no need for divinely appointed caliphs
All it was needed was somebody to follow Quran and Sunnah.
Fortunately there were 4 righteous companions of Prophet to guide ship to glory.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abde 1/2/3

#7

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:21 pm

Badrijanab
(3) Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. sunnat is not to pry Naafil namaaz in Imamat. But you and alike do, so every time you pry Tarawi namaaz you are breaching Sunnat of Prophet.
for fun of it I googled
I do not know who taught religion to BJ


Best answer
it's Arabic which means "please do/accept"

Jewish
Amen = So be it!

Ainsi soit il = French for amen = Let it be so!

Another answer
The meaning of the word 'Ameen' is: 'O Allah! Respond to the supplication".~!


Really funny answer
for example " may allah guide shi'a to the right way and let them feel the pain they caused to us, Ameen" it means here allah please accept

Ameen is Arabic for Amen.
Rate Comment

Yasin answered 6 years ago
O Allah respond to the Supplication


MARS answered 6 years ago
it is same as saying "Amen" in english. it means "accept my prayer/supplication".

I will post Ahadith later
Why say loudly and why silently

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abde 1/2/3

#8

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:01 pm

Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani, great scholar of Ahadith wrote this book
The Prophet's Prayer (saws)
From The beginning To The End As Though You See It
http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/prayerprophet.htm


Based on Authentic Ahadith this is what he found

The aameen, and the Imaam's saying it Loudly
http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/09.html#RTFToC6

When he (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) finished reciting al- Faatihah, he would say:

("aameen") loudly, prolonging his voice.149
He also used to order the congregation to say aameen: When the imaam says,

"Not of those who receive (Your) anger, nor of those who go astray", then say "aameen" [for the angels say "aameen" and the imaam says aameen"] (in another narration: when the imaam says "aameen" say "aameen"), so he whose aameen coincides with the aameen of the angels (in another narration: when one of you says "aameen" in prayer and the angels in the sky say "aameen", and they coincide), his past sins are forgiven.150 In another hadeeth: ... then say aameen; Allaah will answer you.151
He also used to say: The Jews do not envy you over anything as much as they envy you over the salutation and aameen [behind the imaam].152

Comments
149 Bukhaari in Juz' al-Qiraa'ah & Abu Daawood with a saheeh isnaad.
150 Bukhaari , Muslim, Nasaa'i, & Daarimi; the additional wordings are reported by the latter two, and prove that this hadeeth cannot justify that the imaam does not say aameen, as reported from Maalik; hence, Ibn Hajar says in Fath al-Baari, "It clearly shows that the imaam says aameen." Ibn `Abdul Barr says in Tamheed (7/13), "It is the view of the majority of the Muslims, including Maalik as the people of Madeenah report from him, for it is authentic from Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) through the ahaadeeth of Abu Hurairah (i.e. this one) and that of Waa'il ibn Hujr (i.e. the previous one)."
151 Muslim & Abu `Awaanah.

152 Bukhaari in al-Adab al-Mufrad, Ibn Maajah, Ibn Khuzaimah, Ahmad & Siraaj with two saheeh isnaads.

*NB The aameen of the congregation behind the imaam should be done loudly and simultaneously with the imaam, not before him as the majority of worshippers do, nor after him. This is what I finally find most convincing, as I have explained in some of my works, among them Silsilat al-ahaadeeth ad-da`eefah (no. 952, vol. 2) which has been printed and published by the grace of Allaah, and Saheeh at-Targheeb wat-Tarheeb (1/205). See Appendix 6.

Hanafi Madhab followers say Aameen silently
I will post it later

Muslim First
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Re: Abde 1/2/3

#9

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:11 pm

Here is
Why don't Hanafis say 'Ameen' out loud?
http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD= ... 0&CATE=112

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abde 1/2/3

#10

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:18 pm

Sorry I goofed
My post no. 6528 was in response to Br BJ's question no 4, as follows;
(4) To speak anything non-Quranic during Salaat nullifies/break the salaat. You shout "aameen" in namaaz - there is no word like this in Quran so all like you in past 1400 years from birth till death have never offered single Salaat.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Abde 1/2/3

#11

Unread post by JC » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:21 am

There is ONE basic difference between Muslims and Abdes ........

Muslims are Abd-e-Allah ONLY

Abdes on other hand are abdes to any and evey Tom, Dick and Harry who comes their way being Qasr-e-Aa'li'... to be SLAVE is in their blood now, its an addiction and they cannot live without it.