Who Authorised the formation of reformist club?

[progticide]

Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a. Badrijanab,

You and your fellow reformist club-members have been asking lots of questions to the DBs on this forum. However, the few questions posted by DBs never received their fair share of reply, and the reformists have always buried those questions under a pile of unrelated responses containing abuses, allegations, accusations etc. ensuring that the relevant questions beyond the capabilities of the reformists to answer get lost into oblivion and the general reformist population never gets to know about the incapacity and incompetency of the reformist scholars to answer questions basic to the DB faith and beliefs.

In the topic "The True Imam - How would you verify?", the question posted at the beginning of the thread were simple and straight-forward. But again the reformists like you chose to avoid them through derailment of the subject.

Nevertheless, while the existing subject of verification of True Imam awaits a united, common, coherent response from the reformists, let me ask another very basic and straight-forward question to you and your fellow club-members, with a slim hope that these may be answered by the reformists with honest and rational responses relevant to the topic:


1. With whose authority did you and other reformist leaders form your Jamaat and operating body?

2. Did the reformists have the direct authority from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative to form a breakaway society?

3. If yes, please present the relevant proof of authority? It is barely 40 years since your society was formed so dont cite the excuse of lapse of time for loss of proof. Most people today in their 40s and 50s possess their Birth certificate, so I am sure your society would have preserved the relevant proof, it being so important and critical in nature.

4. If no such authority was given to you or your leaders from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative, then with what authority or right over the dawat of Imamuzzaman did you undertake to form a breakaway society using the subjects and knowledge and resources that rightfully belong to the service of Imamuzzaman?

5. Why should then this action of you and your leaders not be construed as a rebellion against the Imamuzzaman? Is this not a deliberate intention and action to cause harm and damage to the dawat of the Imamuzzaman, when you possess no authority from the Imamuzzaman and try to belittle the position of authorised representative of the Imamuzzaman? Do you have any proof or communication from the Imamuzzaman that he has revoked or taken back the authority from his authorised representative of the time?

6. Do you have any proof or communication or authorisation directly or indirectly from the Imamuzzaman allowing you to form a seperate body or society without requiring any permission from his authorised representative of the time?

[Bohra spring]

dumb questions deserve dumb answers

1. With whose authority did you and other reformist leaders form your Jamaat and operating body?

Why do I need anybodies authority , authority was need to stand up to oppression others call it animal instinct to survive

2. Did the reformists have the direct authority from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative to form a breakaway society?

Who is this dude and where is he Imauzaman , I need to have a word with him and when I find him and he is authentic I will ask him for authority , I might need a translator if he is speaking Arabic or Turkish.

3. If yes, please present the relevant proof of authority? It is barely 40 years since your society was formed so dont cite the excuse of lapse of time for loss of proof. Most people today in their 40s and 50s possess their Birth certificate, so I am sure your society would have preserved the relevant proof, it being so important and critical in nature.

Yes others call it Koran and it has been around for 1400 years , I can give you a translation if you cannot find one.

4. If no such authority was given to you or your leaders from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative, then with what authority or right over the dawat of Imamuzzaman did you undertake to form a breakaway society using the subjects and knowledge and resources that rightfully belong to the service of Imamuzzaman?

Belong sounds private property, what proof does he have that the knowledge belongs to him. Let us sort it out in some court of law who owns what?

5. Why should then this action of you and your leaders not be construed as a rebellion against the Imamuzzaman? Is this not a deliberate intention and action to cause harm and damage to the dawat of the Imamuzzaman, when you possess no authority from the Imamuzzaman and try to belittle the position of authorised representative of the Imamuzzaman? Do you have any proof or communication from the Imamuzzaman that he has revoked or taken back the authority from his authorised representative of the time?

Yes for agreeing it is a rebellion if that is what you want to call it. For one you are right it is deliberate intended opposition, why you thoughts this was to pass time and have verbal vomit only.

6. Do you have any proof or communication or authorisation directly or indirectly from the Imamuzzaman allowing you to form a seperate body or society without requiring any permission from his authorised representative of the time?

We have the same authority you have to claim sole ownership of bohra, so if you do not recognize our authority then probably you should ask yourself whether your kothar has authority or grabbed it

[SBM]

You and your fellow reformist club-members have been asking lots of questions to the DBs on this forum.

Yes Prgoticide
We had been asking lots of questions but Adam-you and Profstian disappear instead of answering questions since you only understand BLOCK format, I am putting in the BLOCK so it can catch your eye sight
TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY HERE ARE THE QUESTIONS
1-Who receives the Zakat money collected by Kothari Goons. (Qasr-e-Aali or Bait-e-Zainy may be poor in character, rich in looting and do not qualify)
2-As a follower of Imam Ali who used to distribute Bait Ul Maal in public, why is Kothar not following his lead
3- As a follower of Imam Hussain who stood up to tyranny of Yazidm why his Dai did not stand up to Modi and Bal Thackrey
4-As a follower of Ahl-e-Bayt who lived simple life and did not ask their flocks to support their life style-why his Dai and his Mansoos is asking for Ziyaafat even during Faazil Nights of Ramadan and now during Hajj with FAKHIR NAJWA
Well I am going to stop at these four questions if you can answer it then we can continue with corruption and Napotism and the succession of Dawat

[Al Zulfiqar]

here goes another attempt of the poisonous munafiqs to divert attention from solely needed reforms in the bohra community.

pray tell me pesticide, what these stupid questions incl. verifying the true imam have to do with reform related issues?

you munafiqs sound desperate, trying every trick in the book to set up smokescreens and mirrors to take away attention from the basic goals of this forum. we are not interested in your bullshit and nonsensical questions. you can keep looking for the true imam and write a thesis on how to verify him, while your slave masters who are least bothered about the imam appearing anytime soon, are going about having 1000's of ziyafats, making money in billions and living a life of ayyashi.

dont come here to dictate to us. remember you are on a reform forum, not one of your stalinist jamaat committees which is there solely to insult, loot and inflict cruelty and terror on ordinary bohras.

[Humsafar]

Pesticide,
Our authority comes from the same source that gave you the authority to live, breathe, talk, walk...
You, like the rest of us, were also given the authority to be a human being, to struggle for and enjoy freedom, dignity, love, justice. But unfortunately you dishonoured that authtority by choosing to be a slave. In doing so you've violated God and God's authority. What a pity.

[seeker110]

First we all need to repent, then we will have jaman.

[JC]

Authorization = RAZA ..........

Yo abdes are there things you do without raza, I mean are there times you use your own brains?? oopppsss sorry mistake you all do not have one!!

Human beings do not require 'authorization' for each and everything - this is reserved for animals. God has given so many things and one is Raza to ALL human beings.

Bismillah (read RAZA) has come, lets proceed to thaal for Jaman....

[Bori85]

Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a. Badrijanab,

You and your fellow reformist club-members have been asking lots of questions to the DBs on this forum. However, the few questions posted by DBs never received their fair share of reply, and the reformists have always buried those questions under a pile of unrelated responses containing abuses, allegations, accusations etc. ensuring that the relevant questions beyond the capabilities of the reformists to answer get lost into oblivion and the general reformist population never gets to know about the incapacity and incompetency of the reformist scholars to answer questions basic to the DB faith and beliefs.

In the topic "The True Imam - How would you verify?", the question posted at the beginning of the thread were simple and straight-forward. But again the reformists like you chose to avoid them through derailment of the subject.

Nevertheless, while the existing subject of verification of True Imam awaits a united, common, coherent response from the reformists, let me ask another very basic and straight-forward question to you and your fellow club-members, with a slim hope that these may be answered by the reformists with honest and rational responses relevant to the topic:


1. With whose authority did you and other reformist leaders form your Jamaat and operating body?

2. Did the reformists have the direct authority from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative to form a breakaway society?

3. If yes, please present the relevant proof of authority? It is barely 40 years since your society was formed so dont cite the excuse of lapse of time for loss of proof. Most people today in their 40s and 50s possess their Birth certificate, so I am sure your society would have preserved the relevant proof, it being so important and critical in nature.

4. If no such authority was given to you or your leaders from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative, then with what authority or right over the dawat of Imamuzzaman did you undertake to form a breakaway society using the subjects and knowledge and resources that rightfully belong to the service of Imamuzzaman?

5. Why should then this action of you and your leaders not be construed as a rebellion against the Imamuzzaman? Is this not a deliberate intention and action to cause harm and damage to the dawat of the Imamuzzaman, when you possess no authority from the Imamuzzaman and try to belittle the position of authorised representative of the Imamuzzaman? Do you have any proof or communication from the Imamuzzaman that he has revoked or taken back the authority from his authorised representative of the time?

6. Do you have any proof or communication or authorisation directly or indirectly from the Imamuzzaman allowing you to form a seperate body or society without requiring any permission from his authorised representative of the time?

Mr.Progiticide

There was a dailogue in Raj Kumar's film "Jaani, jKaanch ke ghar mein rehne waale , dusro ke ghar par pathar nahi maarte", I think you understood this, People living in glass houses , shouldn't throw stones to other's house. This applies to your above questions. Samajdaar ko ishaara kaafi hain. In a court of law , if you are asking for proof then even you have to show the proofs.

[SBM]

2. Did the reformists have the direct authority from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative to form a breakaway society?

3. If yes, please present the relevant proof of authority? It is barely 40 years since your society was formed so dont cite the excuse of lapse of time for loss of proof. Most people today in their 40s and 50s possess their Birth certificate, so I am sure your society would have preserved the relevant proof, it being so important and critical in nature.

4. If no such authority was given to you or your leaders from the Imamuzzaman or his authorised representative, then with what authority or right over the dawat of Imamuzzaman did you undertake to form a breakaway society using the subjects and knowledge and resources that rightfully belong to the service of Imamuzzaman?

Progticide
Would you ask the same questions to the Dai of Alavi Bohras too? Who gave them the authority to break away?

[canadian]

2

Progticide
Would you ask the same questions to the Dai of Alavi Bohras too? Who gave them the authority to break away?

May be Alvi Bohras and others like Sulaimani, etc. believe that we Dawoodi Bohras broke away and may be they are asking, "Who gave the Dawoodi Bohras authority to break away?"

[humanbeing]

Who Authorized Kothar ?
To stop burial of dead !
Divide community into Green yellow and red safai chitthis
Break Law of land by money laundering
Hunt & Kill Animals of no use or threat
Build Gold/Silver Tombs

[progticide]

All reformist club-members,

There is certain set of questions posted above at the beginning of the topic. I have made an effort to start a new topic where I have asked for answers to certain questions on a particular subject. If you have questions for the DBs, who stops you from starting a new topic and posting those questions there, its your forum afterall, you can have a new topic for every question.

Just because some of you dont find visitors to your topics and no members interested in answering your stupid questions should be no reason for you to lose your head and start littering around to spoil others' discussions and debates.

Whereas I understand the constant itch and sting that some of you feel when unable to participate and contribute intelligebly to the discussions, you should try to civilise your behaviour and show better etiquettes on open forums, whatever be your manners behind closed doors.

So rather than derailing every other topic with constant cacophony, which only sets a bad example for yourselves with your fellow club members, try exercising restraint and discipline in responding. I am sure you can still make your presence felt by either answering rationally or not answering at all sometimes if you dont have anything substantial or intelligent to contribute.

So, now, will someone care to answer the above questions?

[mnoorani]

All reformist club-members,

There is certain set of questions posted above at the beginning of the topic. I have made an effort to start a new topic where I have asked for answers to certain questions on a particular subject. If you have questions for the DBs, who stops you from starting a new topic and posting those questions there, its your forum afterall, you can have a new topic for every question.

Whereas I understand the constant itch and sting that you all feel when unable to answer relevant questions, you should try to civilise your behaviour and show better etiquettes on open forums, whatever be your manners behind closed doors.

So rather than derailing every other topic with constant cacophony, which only sets a bad example for yourselves with your fellow club members, try exercising restraint and discipline in responding. I am sure you can still make your presence felt by either answering rationally or not answering at all sometimes if you dont have anything substantial or intelligent to contribute.

So, now, will someone care to answer the above questions?

It is you who has been not giving a straight answer and derailing the topic each time. You better be carefull as you could soon loose your job in the PR department. Badri Mahal will probably hire someone better. As with you , each topic has opened a can of worms.

[progticide]

Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab,

Aapki tawajjo he....kuch arz farmaiye janab...aapse mukhaatib chand sawaal likh chhode he humne....apni khamoshi ko apne followers ki ruswaai ka sabab na banne dijiye.....aapko reformists ke jazbaaton ki kasam he.

[SBM]

PROGTICIDE
AAP SEY MUKHATIB HEY HUM, AAP SEY PUCHA HEY KE DAWOODI BOHRA KEY BASIC TENET KIYA HEIN JAWAB DIJEY AUR ALAVI0-SULEMANI BOHRAS
KO KISNE AUTHORITY DI KEY WOH AAPNA ALAG SECT BANALEIN
WOULD YOU ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS BEFORE ASKING OTHERS TO ANSWER-OR YOU AND ADAM ARE KOTAHRI COWARDS PLANTED HERE TO DIVERT THE TOPICS

[zinger]

Janab, to answer your question, Alavi and Sulemani Bohras might have formed a sub-sect of their own, but fact remains that they have a pontiff, a Dai who represents the Imam.

So in a way, while they are seperate from us, they follow the same doctrines and philosophy of Dawoodi Bohras of having a Dai to lead them in the absence of the Imam.

[SBM]

Janab, to answer your question, Alavi and Sulemani Bohras might have formed a sub-sect of their own, but fact remains that they have a pontiff, a Dai who represents the Imam.

So in a way, while they are seperate from us, they follow the same doctrines and philosophy of Dawoodi Bohras of having a Dai to lead them in the absence of the Imam.

So you are Progticide aka Zinger too.

[zinger]

[Bohra spring]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulaymani

Can these have these been our Diai , have we dawoodi bohras reviewed if they do have qualities and our ideologies are similar then can we rewind the clock and reunite .

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SBS9JTMXtbo

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hP1CFjlYcJI

At least is notice modesty in their leaders unlike the kothar.

May be our cultures are different but it will only make our faith largere and richer.

[mnoorani]

Mubarak a.k.a Doctor a.k.a Badrijanab,

Aapki tawajjo he....kuch arz farmaiye janab...aapse mukhaatib chand sawaal likh chhode he humne....apni khamoshi ko apne followers ki ruswaai ka sabab na banne dijiye.....aapko reformists ke jazbaaton ki kasam he.

Jazbaaton ki kasam se badii hai aap ko apne dai ki masoomiat ki kasam .
Bataayein ke kya koi dai ,Allah ke nizaam, Islam ki had ,Quraan ke hukm or Rasul ki shariat ko radd kar sakta hai ??
AAp ko apne Dai ki Masuumiat ki kasam , jawaab di jiye. Warna Badri Mahal ki mulazimat chod ke ,ek halaal tariqe se rozi haasil kijiye.

[stranger]

Man, I love this rivalry :- Progticide v/s Humsafar

[Adam]

Bro Progticide.

So rather than derailing every other topic with constant cacophony, which only sets a bad example for yourselves with your fellow club members, try exercising restraint and discipline in responding. I am sure you can still make your presence felt by either answering rationally or not answering at all sometimes if you dont have anything substantial or intelligent to contribute.
So, now, will someone care to answer the above questions?

Sadly your efforts are in vain again.
The "Opposition" isn't capable of answering an answer straight up.

The only person who "tried" to answer directly was BohraSpring who's following comment:

Who is this dude and where is he Imauzaman , I need to have a word with him and when I find him and he is authentic I will ask him for authority ,

shows the total disrespect in the concept of the Imam totally.
So there's really no need for answering him

[MM Bukhari]

Bro Progticide.

So rather than derailing every other topic with constant cacophony, which only sets a bad example for yourselves with your fellow club members, try exercising restraint and discipline in responding. I am sure you can still make your presence felt by either answering rationally or not answering at all sometimes if you dont have anything substantial or intelligent to contribute.
So, now, will someone care to answer the above questions?

Sadly your efforts are in vain again.
The "Opposition" isn't capable of answering an answer straight up.

The only person who "tried" to answer directly was BohraSpring who's following comment:

Who is this dude and where is he Imauzaman , I need to have a word with him and when I find him and he is authentic I will ask him for authority ,

shows the total disrespect in the concept of the Imam totally.
So there's really no need for answering him

Adam if I am in debt then is zakaat wajib on me?

and please explain concept of zakaat in ismaili tayyebi sect.

[Adam]

Adam if I am in debt then is zakaat wajib on me?

Huh? Where did that question come from?

and please explain concept of zakaat in ismaili tayyebi sect.

IF you are an Ismaili/Taiyibi sect, Daim ul Islam discusses it.

Back to the THREAD?
Who Authorised the formation of reformist club?

[Al Zulfiqar]

Back to the THREAD? Who Authorised the formation of reformist club?

authorisation is the wrong word. "provoked", "instigated" or "precipitated" may perhaps be the more correct choices.

it was the actions of the syedna, who had authorised his despotic and arrogant brother yusuf najmuddin to deal with the bohras of udaipur and who subsequently turned the full force of his goons on them, assaulting them, molesting the women, looting and abusing them, that "provoked" them into rebellion. the syedna claims day in and day out, that he is their roohani bawa and loves them and prays for them, but instead he watched bemused, as the udaipuris were mercilessly beaten up and humiliated. instead of addressing their concerns and giving them a sympathetic ear. he alienated them and kicked himself in the foot.

so its the syedna and his high handedness, arrogance and intoxication with power that "precipitated" the transformation of the devout udaipuris into a strong reformist group.

the fact that he and his zaadas still desperately desire to usurp the community properties held by the reformist jamaat in udaipur, provides the much needed legitimacy to the progressive movement. adam, if abdes like you, pesticide etc believe that the reformists in udaipur and elsewhere are 'unauthorised', then tell the syedna not to deal with these unauthorised people and leave them alone.

its a bit rich, when you ask them for their authorisation and consider them as pariahs and renegades, and then want to get your dirty hands on their properties!!

i have asked this question before: what if the true imam appears and declares that he is with the reformists, declaring the dawoodi bohra dai as the imposter?

[humanbeing]

Who Authorised the formation of reformist club?

It is the Kothar who has turned thebohra belief into a Club, reformist has merely started a movement against tyranny of kothari businessmens. Its your masters and representatives of your likes who gloatingly admit that bohra community is like a club; pay and be part of it.

While AZ has explained the existence of reformist movements, question shall be asked, who authorized turnning bohra fold into a cultish club.

Who Authorized :
Charging heavy taxations on bohras, exploiting their trust and faith.
Denial of burial without monetary clearances.
Hunting of Animals for pleasure.
Promoting Human Worship
Avoid Accountability
Indulge in Money Laundering through Hawala

[Bohra spring]

Abdes

what if I say I don't need anyone's authority to rebel against you. God gave me a brain conscious and Islam

This authority for almost every next second rubbish is your philosophy of Raza it is foreign to to many people who do not follow your invented beliefs.

Adam I am sorry it is out of your intelligence to understand or appreciate the human beings can do most stuff without authority as long as they are not breaking a law of infringing on others rights. Read the about us on this website it will explain why we are here. The PDB was started by association of like minded people who came together to stand up against.

To make you happy can you ask your diai that we want authority to choose or administrators, we want raza to freedom of information, we want raza to challege the brutal practises. If he does not give us in 30 days we will take the raza anyway. So happy now...we are authrorised by the fact that no one in Kothar wanted to give us raza. The society raza supersedes the diais raza

That is called freedom, civil rights, democracy, Islam

Obviously you are on this site with the raza of the diai or diai amil ! Man what a mutant sect these kothrari agents are...the 11 years in jamia and sabaqs really affects their thinking and view to life in the 21st century. It is like debating with some medieval tribe of barbarians.