Qutbi Bohras

[Grayson]

Bro GM,

I understand that, which is why I don't denounce the possibility of it either. Your reasoning for things being the way they are resonates with me too; the alleged motive makes sense. But I can't believe in it, simply because it may be true. Identifying your inside source adds further credibility to the claim, but even if he/she stands as a personal witness to such a document, there's nothing absolute as it still depends on their reliability.

Just like there's doubt regarding the sketchy circumstances and amplified claims of absolute proof that Syedna did Nuss on Mufaddal bhaisaheb, the existence of this alleged document deserves the same scrutiny. Both claims lie on the prerogative of belief. As does this recent news and rumors.

Gathering factual details on these issues is precisely what will further clear the fog.

[seeker110]

Among the two of them one has direct communication with the Imam. How hard is the verification process.

[Bohra spring]

2. please do not drag the reformists into your speculative opinions and do not presume to speak on their behalf. the reformists have no vested interests on either side of this rumoured rift.

Reformist is a generic term associated with people opposed for whatever reason to the establishment and not a trade mark of the PDB. I intentionally did not use the word progressive, if would have used progressive then may be you could get concerned and even then the only private title you can claim is if I use PDB since progressive is also an english word!

[MunkirNakir]

Among the two of them one has direct communication with the Imam. How hard is the verification process.

problem is none of them has any communication with IMAM.

[aftabm]

There is a chance a small group will split and reformist congregate around the new group . Qutbi provides the continuation of Dawoodi Bohra ideology , without radical change. It is like a change of guards yet the core remains. It is convenient and safe to back Qutbi.

Bohra Spring,

Why would (and for that matter, should) any open reformist (thts me) join or even back Qutbi Group. Why should i even be bothered, when he has clearly told when we stopped his car in udaipur ( i was around 20 back then), " I cant abandon concept of misaq for you 5000 odd guys"

No Sir, We aint intrested in Mazoon, Mukasir or any other disgruntled guys.

[S. Insaf]

The rumour of Qutbi Bohras dose create question of validity of "Nass", but that is not reformists' problem who want accountability and transparency in Dawat system.

[Grayson]

While I do not believe Progressives are vested in the politics, I'm sure matters of leadership and it's inevitable conclusions is of interest. Considering a good chunk of Progressives (as seen on this forum) aren't deviants in faith in itself (or atleast don't make it a primary concern), but a movement of ideals and accountability (one that resonates even among unorthodox orthodox such as myself). The tricky thing about this situation is it puts Progressives in somewhat of a pickle, as a possibility of schism (which is essentially what Mazoon vs Muffaddal would be) becomes a matter of faith as much as accountability.

If Progressives are ever put in a scenario in which they have to "choose sides", I assume they'd align (doesn't mean necessarily reunite) with whomever offers the most equitable and Islamic teachings and is willing to diminish totalitarian control. I personally believe it's not something to likely happen immediately but I dare to hope. If discourse grows, inshallah Dawaat takes a long hard look in the mirror and realigns itself with Islamic values.

Naturally, this scenario is conditional on a series of events taking place that may or may not. But it does raise questions in regards to PDB response.

I venture to guess the above as it seems ideological, and am interested in knowing Progressive brothers/sisters view on this matter.

[seeker110]

A few things people look out for when the rishta for a daughter comes from some boy.

Is the boy educated.

Do family have killers .

Addicted to gambling.

Addicted to drugs/alcohol.

I am sure there are other things such as kindness. Specially dealing with hired help.

When I examine the 51st, most of the things listed were present in his genes. This is defective gene. It will and can stay in the family for generations. So anyone associated with 51st gene is Kharab Andda. If 51st was caught and tried and punished. We would have not seen any of these Haram Khors. However , a dirty gene is self destructive, They will perish sooner or later.

[JC]

MunkirNakir,

Due to bad weather and satellite issues Imam has lost all communications - both updwards and downwards!!

[JC]

As a reformist (or progressive) I am ONLY interested in LOSS to Kotharis ... if today Qutbi will bring about division and rift I am all for them!! Our objective should be the Eventual Downfall of this stinking system.

[Bohra spring]

but that is not reformists' problem who want accountability and transparency in Dawat system.

Hence my point if Qutbi provides what you are looking for, would you still insist you oppose the establishment he creates ? There is no public record that he is corrupt, incompetent, or oppressive....so why is he not a good candidate .

Unless now some one contradicts and replies we do not care we have or don't have a diai. We go into full circle Not so long ago PDB in its full regalia stated they believe in concept of traditional Diai. Is the issue Qutbi or Muffy was not appointed by the Diai...and if so which legitimate Diai specifically do you want to nominate for you your next diai ? 52, , 51 , 49. , 48 ...don't go too far because bringing people from the dead to reapeat the Nass is not a regular easy moajiza. I know one guy can speak to the dead but that will not be good enough.

Now imagine if 52 categorically states and I too personally think he wishes his son rather than his step brother to be the heir..states Muffy is rightful..what then ? Ask Muffy with his past records to be transparent and accountable ? Good luck.

In other words Qutbi Muffy issue is a dilemma for the reformist ( not PDB as they are one of the many reformist ), who to back . Unless we can put forward a leadership option we could try me ideology , any suggestions ?

[Bohra spring]

cant abandon concept of misaq for you 5000 odd guys"

No Sir, We aint intrested in Mazoon, Mukasir or any other disgruntled guys.

What if Qutbi realises since then 500,000 want him as an alternative ? Will he then change his mind ?

Qutbi faction would appeal to wider moderate Abdes, to switch sides...

The only issue i fear this could be bluff..and was nothing to do with reforms and more to do with wealth inheritance...

So we have to wait until Qutbi and Muffy makes a public statement about the recent saga

[Al Zulfiqar]

... if Qutbi provides what you are looking for, would you still insist you oppose the establishment he creates ?

In other words Qutbi Muffy issue is a dilemma for the reformist

bohra spring, its getting clearer with every passing day, that you are on some sort of hallucinatory drugs, or most probably have a few screws loose. are you on qaat or LSD or something similar? as i have stated earlier in your own words, relax with your popcorn and soda and keep daydreaming in your little wacky world populated with alice, the wizard of oz, snow white, pinocchio, the big bad wolf etc.

start your own thread, or better still, start your own website where you can pitch your ideology of dumping the entire dai establishment and setting up elections. but of course you first need a community of dawoodi bohras who ascribe to your revolutionary concepts. best of luck!

i would suggest that you collect atleast 500 followers and then return triumphantly to this forum.

[Conscíous]

Haaha^^
I wouldn't mind getting the phone nr to his dealer

[Al Zulfiqar]

Haaha^^
I wouldn't mind getting the phone nr to his dealer

you will get the number from bs, but first you have to join bs.'s camp and agree to elect your next dai, i.e. start your own little cult of wacko's.

[Adam]

All that is being discussed are just false rumours and incompetent people are just getting excited over nothing.
Everyone says he heard this and that but doesn't have any proof.

This is perfectly reflected in the Quran where it says:

أَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِن جَآءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌۢ بِنَبَإٍۢ فَتَبَيَّنُوٓا۟ أَن تُصِيبُوا۟ قَوْمًۢا بِجَهَٰلَةٍۢ فَتُصْبِحُوا۟ عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَٰدِمِينَ
[49:6]
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.


Either be a Dawoodi Bohra who believes in the Dai & Mansoos, and his two rutbas of Mazoon and Mukasir. Or leave the fold. Simple.

Stop gossip.
Verify the truth.
Stay calm.
Be Intelligent.

[MunkirNakir]

Stop gossip.
Verify the truth.
Stay calm.
Be Intelligent.

no Abde has any of above mentioned quality....

[zinger]

Stop gossip.
Verify the truth.
Stay calm.
Be Intelligent.

no Abde has any of above mentioned quality....

Look who's talking.

Somebody who gossips, doesnt bother to verify the truth, jumps up and down and least of all, displays any intelligence... and you say that we dont have any of the qualities... funny man, very funny man

[MunkirNakir]

no Abde has any of above mentioned quality....

Look who's talking.

Somebody who gossips, doesnt bother to verify the truth, jumps up and down and least of all, displays any intelligence... and you say that we dont have any of the qualities... funny man, very funny man

you are a good example of confused abde...

first u liked my post, and when u realized u removed it....grow some balls and accept truth.

[wise_guy]

Look who's talking.

Somebody who gossips, doesnt bother to verify the truth, jumps up and down and least of all, displays any intelligence... and you say that we dont have any of the qualities... funny man, very funny man

you are a good example of confused abde...

first u liked my post, and when u realized u removed it....grow some balls and accept truth.

this forum is not for throwing dirt on each other but to discuss more constructive things. @MunkirNakir, I think you are here for mere fun and nothing else. There is nothing funny about his forum. If you are here for fun, please post in the Lighter Side forum.

[humanbeing]

This is perfectly reflected in the Quran where it says:

أَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِن جَآءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌۢ بِنَبَإٍۢ فَتَبَيَّنُوٓا۟ أَن تُصِيبُوا۟ قَوْمًۢا بِجَهَٰلَةٍۢ فَتُصْبِحُوا۟ عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَٰدِمِينَ
[49:6]
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

As the quran says, “ascertain the truth” …. For that ‘Nass’ video and misaak has to be made public.

[MunkirNakir]

This is perfectly reflected in the Quran where it says:

أَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِن جَآءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌۢ بِنَبَإٍۢ فَتَبَيَّنُوٓا۟ أَن تُصِيبُوا۟ قَوْمًۢا بِجَهَٰلَةٍۢ فَتُصْبِحُوا۟ عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَٰدِمِينَ
[49:6]
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

As the quran says, “ascertain the truth” …. For that ‘Nass’ video and misaak has to be made public.

now Adam will again disappear for few days, as he dont have a reply.

[Adam]

@humanbeing

As the quran says, “ascertain the truth” …. For that ‘Nass’ video and misaak has to be made public.

- The Nass video was made public worldwide to every single Dawoodi Bohra member on the 19th of Rajab 1432.
- The document of the Nass was read out, even shown on display to every single Dawoodi Bohra member during Ramadan 1432.
- The Risala Zaat un Noor of Syenda Mentions the Nass

If you are a Dawoodi Bohra, or in case you missed it, or want to see it again, please contact some one in your Jamat

Just in case you missed my earlier post:

About the Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS or Syedi Mufaddal BS Saifuddin:
- 19th Rajab 1432 - The Nass Majlis took place, in this The Dai called upon his Mansoos and said the following words (These words are are very audible and clear to those you can speak fluent Lisan Dawat), they were also repeated by Dr Moiz BS:
"Maru Naam Mohammed che, Mohammed Burhanuddin che, Mufadal Bhai ne Nass nu taj pehnayu che, TAMNE (you) Nass na sharaf si musharraf kariye che, be ilhamillahe wa ilhame waliyehi tamney a sharaf apiye che"

- During the month of Ramadan that year 1432, and official MISAAL (Letter) of Nass was sent out to the entire world and was read out by every Amil during Ramadan gathering. This document is an official letter from the office of the Dai. The name of the document is نص داعي الطيب منصور السمن على المولى عقيق اليمن (Nass of the Dai of Imam Taiyeb Mansoor al Yaman (Syedna Burahnuddin), on Moula Aqeeq al Yaman (Syedi Mufaddal BS). This document was shown to all the people present and every word of this letter was read out.

- During that same Ramadan, prior to Lailatul Qadr, Syedna published his yearly RISALA (Book, Letter), which was named Zaat un Noor. This hold the official stamp of Syedna and his office. In this book, amoungst other things discussed, it discusses the events of that year (1432) and talks about the declaration of Nass in London 1426 (To Shz Qaidjohar BS and Shz Malik ul Ashtar BS) and 1432 (between 4 hudood).

Visual, Audible and Documented proof.

[/color]

[MunkirNakir]

@humanbeing

As the quran says, “ascertain the truth” …. For that ‘Nass’ video and misaak has to be made public.

- The Nass video was made public worldwide to every single Dawoodi Bohra member on the 19th of Rajab 1432.
- The document of the Nass was read out, even shown on display to every single Dawoodi Bohra member during Ramadan 1432.
- The Risala Zaat un Noor of Syenda Mentions the Nass

If you are a Dawoodi Bohra, or in case you missed it, or want to see it again, please contact some one in your Jamat

Just in case you missed my earlier post:

About the Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS or Syedi Mufaddal BS Saifuddin:
- 19th Rajab 1432 - The Nass Majlis took place, in this The Dai called upon his Mansoos and said the following words (These words are are very audible and clear to those you can speak fluent Lisan Dawat), they were also repeated by Dr Moiz BS:
"Maru Naam Mohammed che, Mohammed Burhanuddin che, Mufadal Bhai ne Nass nu taj pehnayu che, TAMNE (you) Nass na sharaf si musharraf kariye che, be ilhamillahe wa ilhame waliyehi tamney a sharaf apiye che"

- During the month of Ramadan that year 1432, and official MISAAL (Letter) of Nass was sent out to the entire world and was read out by every Amil during Ramadan gathering. This document is an official letter from the office of the Dai. The name of the document is نص داعي الطيب منصور السمن على المولى عقيق اليمن (Nass of the Dai of Imam Taiyeb Mansoor al Yaman (Syedna Burahnuddin), on Moula Aqeeq al Yaman (Syedi Mufaddal BS). This document was shown to all the people present and every word of this letter was read out.

- During that same Ramadan, prior to Lailatul Qadr, Syedna published his yearly RISALA (Book, Letter), which was named Zaat un Noor. This hold the official stamp of Syedna and his office. In this book, amoungst other things discussed, it discusses the events of that year (1432) and talks about the declaration of Nass in London 1426 (To Shz Qaidjohar BS and Shz Malik ul Ashtar BS) and 1432 (between 4 hudood).

Visual, Audible and Documented proof.

[/color]

I can print such 100 misaal on my household printer and prove I am true DAI of IMAM, is that valid as well?

any one can print some thing and send it world wide, TRUTH is smb never spoke from his mouth that muffy is next DAI.

and even in event of raudat tahera hundreds of bohra witnessed, smb was not in his senses and he was not even aware about what is going on.....

[zinger]

no Abde has any of above mentioned quality....[/quote]

first u liked my post, and when u realized u removed it....grow some balls and accept truth.[/quote]


you are right, i did. but it was a mistake. i meant to click on the quote button, but since the like button is placed right next to it, clicked that by mistake

[voice]

Today this message is circulated , even with the use of social media,

"Heartiest Mubarakbadi to Shahzada Aali Waqar Malekulashtar Bhai Saheb Shujauddin Saheb (D.M.) on his Salgirah Mubarak 23rd Jumadil Akhar.
May Allah Taala Grant Sehat & Aafiyat to Shahzada Malekulashtar Bhai Saheb Shujauddin Saheb (D.M) for doing Khidmat of Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (T.U.S.)& his Mansoos Aali Qadr Mufaddal Maula (T.U.S.)
May Shahzada Malekulashtar Bhai Saheb Shujauddin Saheb (D.M.) keep on attaining Khushi & Dua Mubarak of Beve Maula till the day of Qayamat. AMEEN."

For all those who says there is no rift, please make available any single message regarding celebration of Mazoon saheb`s birthday. If not, than please do try to find the answer for this strategy of mansoos`s camp.

[Maqbool]

Adam
Do not mislead us. Just produce the video.

I have also witnessed the tamasa and clearly seen that Sayedna has not spoken much what you have described and it has been concluded by Moizbhaisaheb.

Your appearance after a long time to just re-buck the nuss controversy on this forum has proved that daal main khuch kala hai ya to fir puri daal hi kali hai!

[MunkirNakir]

if misaak can be taken every year, why video of nass cant be shown to people more frequently?

[Adam]

@Maqbool

Adam Do not mislead us. Just produce the video.

1. I'm not misleading you, i'm quoting from what I've heard and clarified in text in the document.
2. I don't have a copy of the Video. But my Amil will have it.
3. You're not a Dawoodi Bohra, so why do you need the video in the first place?

I have also witnessed the tamasa and clearly seen that Sayedna has not spoken much what you have described and it has been concluded by Moizbhaisaheb.

Every word was said by Syedna and then REPEATED by Moiz Bs
Syedna was talking directly to Syedi Mufaddal BS who was standing in front of him, evident in the video.

Your appearance after a long time to just re-buck the nuss controversy on this forum has proved that daal main khuch kala hai ya to fir puri daal hi kali hai!

I've always been here, I just post when I want to :p
Unlike you'll I value my time!

@MunkirNakir

if misaak can be taken every year, why video of nass cant be shown to people more frequently?

Sure, if you want to see the video, you can contact your local amil or the person who handles the relays.

All these comments from people who don't believe in the Fatimi Dawat, Duats, Syedna Mohammed and Syedi Mufaddal or Mazoon Saheb.
All your comments are useless.
Example, why should I discuss the Prophet Mohammed with an atheist!


Stop gossip.
Verify the truth.
Stay calm.
Be Intelligent.

[MunkirNakir]

neither I am athiest and nor smb or muffaddal are prophets, btw I did asked my local amil for video and he clearly denied for any such demands...

so now what shud be done?

can u please ask ur local amil and upload video on you tube? so we all can see it with our own eyes and hear what smb spoke?

this will end this discussion as well....