Asghar Ali Engineer sahab passes away

[zinger]

I agree with Bohra Spring.

Phoenix, this comment of yours was in bad taste.

If you make statements like this, there is no difference then between us and people like Dazzling and others on this site

[Al Zulfiqar]

Good riddance to bad rubbish

.. Muffy has a choice what legacy he wants to live behind !

isn't it already clear what legacy mola and his son muffy are leaving behind? jaahils like phoenix.... uncouth, ill-mannered, uneducated, ignorant and vengeful, with not an iota of decency or etiquette.

[zinger]

Boss, you will put the most uncouth, ill-mannered, uneducated, ignorant and vengeful jaahil, with not iota of decency or etiquette to shame.

So think about that before pointing fingers

[Al Zulfiqar]

sorry boss... i forgot to count you in that list alongwith phoenix. now go back to 'loving' that money-loving dai of yours and doing sajdas to him.

[ghulam muhammed]

The official stand of Progressives is: they abhor and boycott the foolish concept of 'Secularism'.

In what capacity are you entitled to make official statements on behalf of PDB ? What authority do you have to make any ridiculous statements on behalf of PDB thereby painting the entire PDB with the same brush. Are you an office bearer officially authorised to make statements ? If so then please provide proof.

[badrijanab]

The official stand of Progressives is: they abhor and boycott the foolish concept of 'Secularism'.

In what capacity are you entitled to make official statements on behalf of PDB ? What authority do you have to make any ridiculous statements on behalf of PDB thereby painting the entire PDB with the same brush. Are you an office bearer officially authorised to make statements ? If so then please provide proof.

One answer for your all questions: First official law of PDB is: In matter of religion and faith they are ditto like Shabab Bohras.

You are not registered member of PDB, are you? You are writing here because you protest the illicit and parasitic practices of Kothar but by faith you are not Bohra mumin to begin.

In Sunni & Sufi: Imaan is okay if just verbally consented. Practice and consent in heart is not required. For Ithna Asheri: Iman is verbally agreeing and practicing same. But for the rightful Fatimi Dawat the Imaan is: (1) Saying, (2) Practicing and (3) Consenting same in heart.

In your heart you have not consent to Imaan of Fatimi Dawat (Islam) hence you are not Bohra, leave aside to being progressive! So bhaijaan, pehle khud ko to dekh lo ki aap khud Bohra mumin (niyat) se ho ya nahi uske baad doosro ko aisa sawal karna!

[ghulam muhammed]

badrijanab bhai,

This is an open forum where people from many walks of life, people from different sects etc. express their views. Hence everyone has the right to question and you just cant give a lame excuse of not answering just because the person questioning doesn't follow your school of thought. You are a unique bohra riding on a high horse but still you question the beliefs of sunnis, shias ithna asheri, alavi etc. Moreover if you make a statement on behalf of a group (PDB) then you have to first prove your own credentials and also under what authority are you entitled to make any vague and stupid statements. Are you the official spokesperson of PDB, if so then provide the proof !! Period.

Lastly stop worrying about my faiths and beliefs as you are not going to come in my grave to answer for me, worry about your own self and the tonnes of venom stored in you.

[ghulam muhammed]

Goodbye Asgharsaab : Remembering Asghar Ali Engineer

Mera azm itna buland hai ki paraye sholon ka darr nahin

Mujhe khauf aatish e gul se hai kaheen yeh chaman ko jala na de.

(“My intentions are so high that I am not afraid of the unknown blaze

I am afraid of the fire of the flowers lest it burn the garden – Shakil Badauni )


I will never forget the sips of tea I shared with Asgharsaab in a tea shop at Wardha more than a year ago. I had hardly any premonition at the time that this would be my last meeting with him.

http://kafila.org/2013/05/23/goodbye-as ... -engineer/

[ghulam muhammed]

You might be aware of the sad news of the demise of our chairman Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer on 14th May 2013.

The Centre for Study of Society and Secularism is celebrating the legacy of Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer ‘A living Faith- Quest for Peace, Harmony and Social change’ on 27th May 2013 from 5.30pm to 8.30pm at the St. Xavier’s College Hall, Mahapalika Marg, opposite Metro Cinema, Dhobi talav, Mumbai 400002. His views and work on religion and liberation theology, communal harmony, religion and women will be contextualized in today’s social scenario.

Eminent individuals like Shabana Azmi, Farooq Sheikh, Ashok Sajjanhar, Secretary of National Foundation on Communal Harmony, Julio Reiberio, Teesta Setalvad, Shri L.S. Hardenia, Anand Patwardhan, Fr. Rudy Heredia, Dr. Zeenat Shaukat Ali, Dolphy D’souza and Irfan Engineer, will be present at the event.

We sincerely hope you will be able to take some time out of your busy schedules to pay tribute to a personality who touched so many lives and whose work continues to do so. Your participation will encourage us and many others to dedicate themselves to the work of justice and peace.

With regards,

Yours sincerely,

Prof. Ram Puniyani
(General Secretary)

Centre for Study of Society and Secularism
602 & 603, New Silver Star,
Behid BEST Bus Depot,
Santacruz (E),
Mumbai: - 400 055.

E-mail: csss@mtnl.net.in,

Ph. 022-26149668/26102089

[ghulam muhammed]

Thanks to much confusion in the way we use English, we seem to have lost our understanding over the last 50 years of the correct meaning of the word ‘secular’. (It is interesting that there is no equivalent word for ‘secular’ in Indian languages!) The English word has always been used in contra distinction to the word ‘religious’. While a purist definition would actually imply ‘anti-religious’, the generally accepted meaning the world over is that a secular state is one where the state remains indifferent to, and neutral between, the religious beliefs and practices of its citizens. In short, the separation of religion from the state.

[Al Zulfiqar]

let me also add that the reason why all modern democracies have made secularism sacrosanct in their constitutions is because history is witness to the fact that whenever statehood and religion have become closely intertwined, i.e. temporal powers and religious powers have merged, the greatest destruction of human rights, torture, bigotry and unbridled license to oppress and exterminate 'other' faiths and beliefs has resulted.

take the examples of christianity and the overwhelming power and influence of the pope over medieval kingdoms and their rulers. this resulted in witch hunts, the spanish inquisition, the murderous crusades and the rampaging armies of europe in the name of religion, the muslim turkish massacres in armenia and elsewhere, the hindu zealot kingdoms of the mauryas and guptas, the fanatic rule of aurangzeb, and today the wahabi kingdoms of the gulf and middle-east. saudi arabia is a prime example. also the deeply bigoted, bible thumping and quran burning christian fanatics of south USA, the sinister agenda of the hindutva parties in india who wish to form a ram rajya and the muslim extremists in pakistan. look at the genocide of the rohingya muslims in burma sanctioned by a buddhist state.

god forbid if such religious hate-filled bigots ever come to absolute power. you all know what will be the result.

[badrijanab]

Only during the rule of Prophet Mohammed, Mola Ali a.s., and Fatimi Imams - justice truly prevailed. The missionaries of non-Islamic religion were protected, no incremental tax was levied to non-Muslims, they were employed in government services, etc. Prophet s.a.w.w., Ali a.s. and Fatimi Imams a.s. should be used as the rule model for: (1)Freedom of expression for all esp non-Muslims, and (2) Universal brotherhood.

[aftabm]

Simplicity and Tenacity are the two traits, which defines Mr Engineer in true manner. He doggedly fought aganist regime of Royal Clergy, without any one's support. My deepest condolences to his bereaved family and prayers for his departed soul.

Admin- Can we please have Badrijanab et al be asked to refrain from badmouthing Mr engineer and harp his so-called-coneited-pristine-brand-of-islam. He may choose to do so in a different thread. Progressive Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat is indeed secular and support all humanitarian causes.

[badrijanab]

Simplicity and Tenacity are the two traits, which defines Mr Engineer in true manner. He doggedly fought aganist regime of Royal Clergy, without any one's support. My deepest condolences to his bereaved family and prayers for his departed soul.

Admin- Can we please have Badrijanab et al be asked to refrain from badmouthing Mr engineer and harp his so-called-coneited-pristine-brand-of-islam. He may choose to do so in a different thread. Progressive Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat is indeed secular and support all humanitarian causes.

Aftab bhai,

Why don't you get an official letter from Udaipur Bohra Jamat claiming that PDB is Secular? And publish it here.

To begin with beginning - the term "Progressive" is unofficial - there is no such thing or Jamat as "Progressive DB"!!!

[Bohra spring]

Bj...can you stop distracting the topic...show some courtesy...this site was pioneered by Asgarali...yet when we are sending condolences to him you are spoiling the topic. Can you imagine if we did that on your site...oh sorry you don't allow free blogs.

PDB are showing outstanding restraints in non PDB commentary , please take caution. I think you are crossing the line.

Note I am not PDB but support their loss and grief

[badrijanab]

Spring Ji,

"Progressive" Dawoodi Bohra - who are they? "Progressive" - there is no such term or thing called "Progressives"!!!

[aftabm]

Simplicity and Tenacity are the two traits, which defines Mr Engineer in true manner. He doggedly fought aganist regime of Royal Clergy, without any one's support. My deepest condolences to his bereaved family and prayers for his departed soul.

Admin- Can we please have Badrijanab et al be asked to refrain from badmouthing Mr engineer and harp his so-called-coneited-pristine-brand-of-islam. He may choose to do so in a different thread. Progressive Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat is indeed secular and support all humanitarian causes.

Aftab bhai,

Why don't you get an official letter from Udaipur Bohra Jamat claiming that PDB is Secular? And publish it here.

To begin with beginning - the term "Progressive" is unofficial - there is no such thing or Jamat as "Progressive DB"!!!

BadriJanab Sahab
I dont need to bring any letter to prove that official stand of Progressive (for that matter reformist/roshan Khyal/Bohra Youth, What ever name you want to choose) is that we believe in secularism and tolerance. You just need to go to home page of this website and read through the mission statement. You would find your answers.

Sme individual in reformist/bohra youth jamaat may be fanatical and overtly bent upon "so-called-bohra-pristinism", but by far and large, we respect all relegion, do not consider ourself superior to rest of the world.

[badrijanab]

BadriJanab Sahab
I dont need to bring any letter to prove that official stand of Progressive (for that matter reformist/roshan Khyal/Bohra Youth, What ever name you want to choose) is that we believe in secularism and tolerance. You just need to go to home page of this website and read through the mission statement. You would find your answers.

Sme individual in reformist/bohra youth jamaat may be fanatical and overtly bent upon "so-called-bohra-pristinism", but by far and large, we respect all relegion, do not consider ourself superior to rest of the world.

Who told u Bohra Youth & Roshan Khayal Jamat believe in Secularism? There is no room for secularism in Islam/Fatimi Dawat. The rule# 1 of BY is they consider to practice same faith/belief as Bohra Shabab. Your personal thoughts are not the official stand of Bohra Youth Jamat or Central Board.

This website is not official "Bohra Youth" website - this site is run by a good man who belongs to BY Jamat. Mission statement of this website is the mission statement of this website not of the Central Board or Bohra Youth Jamat!

Lastly there is technical error in the mission statement of this website, Admin note following: The mission statement of this website says, "We are Ismaili Fatimid Mustalian Tayyebi Dawoodi Bohras, a sect of Shia Islam. We accept the succession of Imams up to Imam Tayyeb." The red text is technically incorrect, you should rectify it to: We accept the succession of Imams from first Imam Hasan a.s. up to Imam Tayyeb a.s. and there after Imam's in the progeny of Imam Tayyen a.s.. You may reword it but it should not say "up to Imam Tayyeb a.s." and don't forget to club suffix a.s. after the name of Imam's.

[aftabm]

Neither does your thoughts is official stand of Bohra Youth or Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat. No one has to tell me any thing, i know iit as i am part of reformist dawoodi bohra jamaat. We beleive in equality, not in relegious superiority. As far as the site is concerned, it is a commendable effort made by all individual who contributes here. There is no owners around here.

You may keep on harping your ridiculous prisitine thoughts here, but do not make them official stands of Progressive/Reformists. I dont want add anything more and request you not to say anything more on this thread. This is strictly for condolences for a great man.

[ghulam muhammed]

A Tribute to Asghar Ali Engineer
10 March 1939 – 14 May 2013

29 May 2013

6.30 pm

Lecture Hall 2, Annexe, India International Centre
40, Max Mueller Marg, Lodhi Estate New Delhi- 110003

Speakers: Apoorvanand, Harsh Mander, Kavita Shrivastava, Justice Rajendra Sachar, Praful Bidwai, Shabnam Hashmi, Syeda Hameed, Vrinda Grover, Zoya Hassan & others

Join us celebrate this wonderful life.
All India Secular Forum, Aman Biradari, Anhad, JTSA, Insaf, PUCL, SAHMAT

Aman Biradari, 105/6-A, Adhchini,Aurobindo Marg,Opposite Cafe Coffee Day, New Delhi - 110017

26535961/62

[Humsafar]

Centre for Study of Society and Secularism

Meaning of secularism: a doctrine that rejects religion and religious considerations

As per Oxford dictionary meaning of Secularism: not connected with religious or spiritual matters.

So, was Mr. Engineer anti to all Religion including religion of Islam?

Asghar Ali Engineer also founded and headed the Institute of Islamic Studies.
The Centre for Study of Society and Secularism was mainly to facilitate his pioneering work in the investigation of communal riots, publishing its reports and promoting communal harmony among different religious communities. The word "secularism" in this context means respect and equality for all religions, and this is what he spent most of his life promoting. It is possible that without his work and efforts you as a Muslim in India would have been less safe today. God forbid there is a riot next time and you're being chased by a rabid Hindu fanatic you might (if you have the intelligence) wish for a secular society where everybody has the right and freedom ans security to practice their religion. Asghar Ali saheb was fighting for such a society.

[badrijanab]

The word "secularism" in this context means respect and equality for all religions, and this is what he spent most of his life promoting.

Above is true or false, I don't know. But I do know for sure that Mr. Engineer promoted "nafrat" for Dawoodi Bohra faith all his life especially when he claimed in Al Furqaan (journal published from Kuwait) that Bohra is the most "gumraah" firqa of Islam!

Instead of having FIRST LOYALTY with Dawoodi Bohras which he abused to trick worldly glamour he always thrown dirt on Bohra faith and that was the reason that in Udaipur vazeehpura mosque not even handful of (Progressive) mumin attended his Fatiha! He has tricked worldly glamour like Kothar does but he has not won love of Udaipur mumineen! Because of ONLY him the Youth (progressive) movement has lost its members!

Kothar is #2 and Engineer was #1 enemy of Dawoodi Bohra faith.

[seeker110]

All the books and articles written by Asgharali saheeb you only read part of a article, based on that you made up your mind. There must have been a strong rebuttal to the article to prove it otherwise.

[badrijanab]

Seeker110 sahib,

Newspaper "Zurrat" have given mooh-tod jawab to Engineer Asger sahib for his article in Al Furqaan in which he severely insulted Bohra faith.

[ghulam muhammed]

Above is true or false, I don't know. But I do know for sure that Mr. Engineer promoted "nafrat" for Dawoodi Bohra faith all his life especially when he claimed in Al Furqaan (journal published from Kuwait) that Bohra is the most "gumraah" firqa of Islam!

Could you please provide details of the above articles in order to understand the context in which he is alleged to have said so.

Kothar is #2 and Engineer was #1 enemy of Dawoodi Bohra faith.

I can understand your predicament because according to you anyone who portrays history in a sensible manner and if that goes against your self proclaimed fairytales then he becomes enemy of your "Pristine" bohra faith. The first condition of your "Pristine" faith is HATRED for the khalifas and ummul mumenin hence any logical argument to prove you wrong invites the wrath of your "Pristine" faith. You can swallow only what is spoon fed to you and digest any crap no matter how absurd they are.

I REQUEST YOU TO START A NEW THREAD TITLED "HATE ASGHAR ALI ENGINEER" WHEREIN YOU WILL HAVE THE SUPPORT OF ALL THE ABDES WHOM YOU DESPISE AND PLEASE LEAVE THIS THREAD ALONE.

[Humsafar]

Above is true or false, I don't know.

Then you should make it your business to know before you level allegations against someone. Secularism in and by itself is a very sound and humanitarian concept, but it becomes all the more important in a multi-cultural and multi-religious country like India. You must thank your stars that India is constitutionally a secular country and not a religious theocracy like Saudi Arabia or Iran. In both countries you and pristine faith would have been driven to the ground.

But I do know for sure that Mr. Engineer promoted "nafrat" for Dawoodi Bohra faith all his life especially when he claimed in Al Furqaan (journal published from Kuwait) that Bohra is the most "gumraah" firqa of Islam!

I've not seen this article, but you are ready to judge him on the basis of just one piece? Knowing you, I can be pretty certain that you have understood it totally out of context. Asghar Ali saheb devoted his entire life for the rights and dignity of Bohras and sacrificed and suffered much for his troubles. Judge him by his actions, not (out of context) words.

Instead of having FIRST LOYALTY with Dawoodi Bohras which he abused to trick worldly glamour...

So you are going sit in judgement now! And worldly glamour? I've not met a more simple and humble man. He has died in debt with his medical bills still pending.

he always thrown dirt on Bohra faith and that was the reason that in Udaipur vazeehpura mosque not even handful of (Progressive) mumin attended his Fatiha! He has tricked worldly glamour like Kothar does but he has not won love of Udaipur mumineen! Because of ONLY him the Youth (progressive) movement has lost its members!

That was a Wednesday, a working day and people did not have information because it all happened so suddenly. Also it was organised by a student body which at it best always draws a small crowd.
But the next day was community-wide fatiha jaman organised by the jamat and thousands turned up.

[seeker110]

I did fateha like thousands of muslims without jaman and attendance at the masjid. How can anyone put a number on the lives touched by the loss of Br. Asgharali saheb.

[badrijanab]

You must thank your stars that India is constitutionally a secular country and not a religious theocracy like Saudi Arabia or Iran. In both countries you and pristine faith would have been driven to the ground.

Humsafar sahib, read our history! Fatimi Dawat has survived in severer era than Saudi Arabia or Iran - zaalim's like Aurangzeb, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Temoor, etc.

[ghulam muhammed]

Fatimi Dawat has survived in severer era than Saudi Arabia or Iran - like that of Aurangzeb, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Temoor, etc.

So you agree that people always suffered in places where there was no secularism !

[badrijanab]

Fatimi Dawat has survived in severer era than Saudi Arabia or Iran - like that of Aurangzeb, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Temoor, etc.

So you agree that people always suffered in places where there was no secularism !

So you agree that people never suffered in places where there was secularism?!!!!!