Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

[ghulam muhammed]

If the above becomes a reality then this site will lose its viewership

[ghulam muhammed]

I genuinely miss Bro.Al Zulfiqar !! His contribution to the thread would have added more spice to the discussions Kahan ho Bhai ?? Come back again !!

[ghulam muhammed]

It takes less time to do things right than to explain why you did it wrong

-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[Sikander]

I genuinely miss Bro.Al Zulfiqar !! His contribution to the thread would have added more spice to the discussions Kahan ho Bhai ?? Come back again !!

I dont think this time is for spices and gossips, but to decide faith of 1.2 million people.

[hypocritebohra]

Just by going on the debate in this forum on this , and judging it from a view point of a former Bohra, it seems Muffy's supporters are using lanaats, invectives, abuse and lunacy symptomatic of their leader where as the Mazoon's supporters are indulging in civilized, logical debate epitomizing their leader. I left the bohra fold some time ago due to constant exhortation and distortions of our Deen, but if I had this opportunity at that time would have gladly joined the Mazoon camp. He promises to bring back the true values of Islam and the Bohra Theology, reverting to true Islamic Ideals at same time being progressive and modern in his approach. Muffy on the other hand is playing to the lunatic fringe in the community (which unfortunately is in the majority) and offers only Breast Beating, Shouting Ya Hussain at every opportunity, there is no intellectual discourse or Islamic teaching from him other than the Taleban style of Islam. I urge all my former Bohras not to let go of this unique chance to bring back Bohraism closer to Islam , answer the call of Mazoon, do not isolate him and let his call to haq fail, or history will never forgive you. This is the advice I have given to some family members who are in the Bohra Fold.

[questions]

It is for us to save ourselves and make a choice.

All these speculations are moot.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dada Bap Beta Chachay - saray kay saray lutayray....

To me it doesnt matter who came to pay whom respects first, and IF and when the Imam speaks to one and not to the other - who really cares ?
Aur tau aur becharay ghareeb 18 aam logon say dafan kay bhi paisay liye kothar nay - zalalat ki limit hay .

[Sikander]

Just by going on the debate in this forum on this , and judging it from a view point of a former Bohra, it seems Muffy's supporters are using lanaats, invectives, abuse and lunacy symptomatic of their leader where as the Mazoon's supporters are indulging in civilized, logical debate epitomizing their leader. I left the bohra fold some time ago due to constant exhortation and distortions of our Deen, but if I had this opportunity at that time would have gladly joined the Mazoon camp. He promises to bring back the true values of Islam and the Bohra Theology, reverting to true Islamic Ideals at same time being progressive and modern in his approach. Muffy on the other hand is playing to the lunatic fringe in the community (which unfortunately is in the majority) and offers only Breast Beating, Shouting Ya Hussain at every opportunity, there is no intellectual discourse or Islamic teaching from him other than the Taleban style of Islam. I urge all my former Bohras not to let go of this unique chance to bring back Bohraism closer to Islam , answer the call of Mazoon, do not isolate him and let his call to haq fail, or history will never forgive you. This is the advice I have given to some family members who are in the Bohra Fold.

just like you even I have been away from all this kothari schemes from last 2 years, but I didnt declared it to any one, but all my relatives knew my views and I was tag as muddai, because I didnt surrender to any unislamic fatwas.

now I see thias opportunity to again get grip into community and get a group of like minded people again within my own community. its never late, you can do the same.

[rajab]

The mainstream and the zealous abdes have already decided...

This entire drama is histrionic and regressive. Once again we have another "Great Schism" in the Bohra community... I wonder how the Alavis are getting on?

[Sikander]

I am still not able to make out what kind of man and husband muffy and taha must be that their wives who stayed with them for years were not at all happy with them, and they were just looking for opportunity to run away from there.

this is so shoking and thing to ponder.

[SBM]

Mazoon-e-Dawat,
Moulaya Khattab bin Hasan Hamdani r.a.
Shahadat:: 8 Safar 533 H.1139 A.D. Huzurus Shaam-Yemen
HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF (From Malumaat Message Board)

Zaman: Pehla Dai, Dail Ajal, Syedna Zoeb bin Moosa r.a.


Moulaya Khattab bin Hasan Hamdani r.a. ni viladat 440 H. ma thai. Ej Saal ma Moulatena Hurratul Maleka (r.a.) ni viladat thai. Beve sahebo ye ekaj khatun [bairo] si dudh pidu. Aam Syedna Khattab (r.a.) Moulatena Hurratul Maleka r.a. na raza'at bhai [doodhbhai] chhe.
Aap ni personality total noor hati. Aap "Saheb-e-Ashraaf" tha, allama benazir tha. Aap ye Haqeeqat na kitab likha chhe.
Pehla Dai, Dail Ajal Syedna Zoeb (r.a.) ye aap ne Mazoon-e-Dawat no rutbo bakhsho. Satar ni Dawat na aap pehla Mazoon chhe. Zuhoor ane Satar beve zaman aap ye dekha chhe.
Aap no dushman aap no bhai Suleman tho. Hamesha aap ni mukhalefat [ oppostion] par rahyo. Beve na darmiyan ghana jang thaya. Har jang ma aap galib rahya. [won the barttles] Maidan-e-Razam ma aap ye Suleman ne bhala si halaq kido.
Suleman ni halaq na baad tehna farzando ne aap ye potani kafalat ma rakha. Ej bhatijao ye ek raate gaflat no waqt dekhi aap ne aap ni aaramgah ma zahar si Shaheed kida.
Moulatena Hurratul Maleka (r.a.) ni vafat na 6 mahina baad aap shaheed thaya chhe.

Aap ni umar 93 varas ni hati.
Mulla Saifuddin Surka n.k.d. Ahmedabad

[Jamali]

I am still not able to make out what kind of man and husband muffy and taha must be that their wives who stayed with them for years were not at all happy with them, and they were just looking for opportunity to run away from there.

this is so shoking and thing to ponder.

[/i]
Dont be shocked. If they cant respect the wishes of their father and grandfather then what are you hoping for. There is more to what that meets the eye. Power and Money can make you sell your ownself and your faith and this is what we are experiencing here.

[Jamali]

Whats the future now for the Dawoodi Bohras?

1. Split into 2 factions? Qutbi Bohras and Dawoodi Bohras (Mufty)? Who gets what? Saifi Mahal, Badri Mahal? All the markazs and Jamaats around the world? What about family splits? (Husband Dawoodi, wife Qutbi? Divorces?
2. A compromise between the 2? (Possible if the main purpose of the split was for wealth...One person paid to back down?
3. A coalition? A community with 2 Dais?
4. A battle / War? Physical, emotional, Political? (Started? Laanat, Burning effigies? )
5. Divine intervention? New Dai? Imam coming out of Parda?
6. Breakdown of the community altogether?

Interesting questions...Points to ponder

[Sikander]

every jamaat should reclaim all the properties from dawat, and all markaz and rozas should get into hands of respective jamaat, without interviene of any central board.

bring back days of syedna Qutbuddin shahid and all other previous dais.

all jamaat should throw cases in courts and claim back all community properties from hands of badri mahal.

[Nietzsche]

DB_Londoner:

When I said that I'd wait for someone else to explain, I was waiting for Humsafar's message. You've been warned by multiple people now, not just the crazy godless moron.

[Nietzsche]

Biradar, I'm pretty well versed in the histories concerning Hitler and Stalin, thank you very much. When one makes such a comparison, it doesn't mean to imply that these dai's are LITERALLY going to do what Hitler and Stalin did.

The comparison is meant to associate evil with evil.

[marabu]

Have been waiting for this for many years.
Enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Am sure that syedna Khuzeima (SBQ) will win in legal matters but talking to common folks including families that SBM has better hand ( of two jokers as noted by humsafar) as he has been making friends with many who have significant wealth.And they carry and sway local jamaats.
I want SBQ to come out and state the following and I will accept him as mouala
1...that each Jamat is independent and run its own affairs.
2 ...aamils are just present for religious affairs only and have no say about jamaats
3. Transparency in each Jamat and election of officials whose mandate is to look after each members.
I want to go back to 1960 or 70 when I felt I was part of community
Otherwise I have followed Islam with help of my Shia and Sunni friends.
Seen many posts so wanted to post my two cents worth .

[Biradar]

Biradar, I'm pretty well versed in the histories concerning Hitler and Stalin, thank you very much. When one makes such a comparison, it doesn't mean to imply that these dai's are LITERALLY going to do what Hitler and Stalin did.

The comparison is meant to associate evil with evil.

You are very ignorant if you think the da'i or even SMB or SKQ are evil. They are not. Part of the problem, in fact, a large part of the problem is religion itself. It tends to be totalitarian, controlling and anti-liberal. When you compare something to Stalin or Hitler you are do two things: you reduce the actual, horrific evil perpetuated by these two, and second, you make it appear as if the people you are comparing them to are really, really bad. Reduces the impact of the point you are trying to make.

[Sikander]

just got email from ITS stating no one should forward any material of any kind by any means of communication.

now my concerns is why muffy is so much worried about truth to be reviled?

why are they using ITS email portal for their personal use?

I mean we never gave our details to be used for this kind of purpose?

[Sikander]

one of my aunty who is brain washed coompletely was talking about nafisa Ali controversy, and how mazoon can not be dai at all, so I decided to do some reaserach and found this, worth to share,

one more thing if there ws any truth in this, why mazoon was not stipped off from his respected postion long back?

it shows daal mein kaalaa tha, and it was meant to defame mazoon sahab.

Here's a link to this post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=340&p=5270#p5274 - added by Admin.

[Nietzsche]

I'm impressed that you've acknowledged the religion is a vice, Biradar. You've taken the next step. Most religions fit your description; conservative, controlling, autocratic, etc, etc.

If you hold these sentiments, may I ask why you still believe in any of the "a'ala ilm" that's written in thousand year old books? Look where it's gotten the middle east, look where it's gotten the Dawoodi Bohra community. Women should study "home science" to make it big in life and the afterlife? Women can't drive without being arrested and whipped? Give me a break.

As for the Hitler/Stalin comparison: I consider those two people evil. They knowingly manipulate peoples' belief in this religion; rally them like cattle; and take their money and property. They don't give a shit about their own peoples' welfare. It may not be systemic murder or genocide, but it cannot be ignored due to ints relatively small scale. They are both evil people and you know it. I don't see other muslim 'imams' demanding salams from mosque-goers. The Dawoodi Bohra brand of "islam" has been crafted by evil people, and it is run by evil people.

[stopfgm]

I am wondering if the Qutbi Bohras will continue to do khatna (khafz) on girls or stop this practice.

[layman]

Points to consider:
1) we all know about the atrocities done towards SKQ when he was in the Mazoon rutba.
2) mufaddal saifuddin had started the whole anti-mazoon thing with the help of those clowns badrul jamali and his brothers.

So why did Mazoon take it lying down. He was the Mazoon for God's sake. He couldn't do much while SMB was alive, what can he do now? The problem is that his goose was cooked long time ago, and he let it happen.

That is where Haqq is! When the Mazoon did not fight in front of his Dai and create a rift withing the community then in front of the late Syedna.
You think the late Syedna enjoyed and came where mufaddal saifuddin took him? He was forced all these years! wake up guys and think from your brains.
Would you hunt down lions and elephants and stay luxuriously (at the expense of all the bohra taxpayers money) in africa and around the world when your own father (and here the late Syedna) is sick and in ICU? NO MAN!
He was in colombo doing what when the Syedna was in Saifee hospital ICU just before passing away?
The Mazoon was never allowed to be alone with the Syedna all these years, the muffy mafias have played politics since the beginning.

[Maqbool]

I agree with Huseain and Humsafr about KBQ. But I have some points which I wish to share with you two.
Those who are open progressive and are living in the hubs of progressive, where they get all the facilities like burial, praying, nikah etc. will never understand the problems with others who are alone or in a minority in the small city or town.

KBQ may have done lots of sins in the past but now he is very old and is not able to lead the community same in the SMS case. Actually the hole stage is run by their sons, as previously in the case of SMB.

If we compare present working of SMS and the philosophy projected by KBQ, KBQ has upper hand. His sons has vision and may lead the community on the 21st century rather taking backward as by SMS.

If progressive take decision to follow SBQ (of course with some conditions) I think it will be in the interest of majority doawoodi bohras.

[phorendude]

Call it irony I guess..one of the closest allies of 52, Bal Thackeray left his house in same predicament, and its now playing all over news:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 130832.cms

[AMAFHH]

Re: Why They Hate Syedi Mazoon Saheb - http://www.zahirbatin.com
Unread postby californiaguy on Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:01 pm

Here's his email:
----------------------
Salaams,
I will send you one as soon as possible -- I've already received so many requests that I cannot keep up with the demand. Please note: if you receive a cd, it will only work on your computer and not in a cd player. You can also download the entire cd from the website using an advanced PC (computer). Please remember me in your doa.
WEBSITE BANNED IN UAE : I have received emails confirming that the isp in UAE has banned the website per someone’s instructions -- apparently they are afraid of the truth. This is proof that the people who hate Syedi Mazoon Saheb and are responsible for this poisonous zahir-batin tasawwur have so much power that they can even ban a website on the internet.
More Evidence Of Fitnat Against Dawat Revealed

List Of Those Who Have Broken Their Misaaq
http://www.zahirbatin.com/list.html

Testimonials From Mumineen
http://www.zahirbatin.com/feedback.html

Website With Evidence Of Fitnat To Deport Mazoon-e-Dawat
http://f_januwala.tripod.com/

Why They Hate Syedi Mazoon Saheb
http://www.zahirbatin.com
See highlighted areas for updated material

Taking Allah’s qasam, I say that Syedi Mazoon Saheb has been insulted by so many people in my family saying such things to me as "he is like Awwal Thani Thaleth" (naoozobillah!) and that "he is a munaafiq" (naoozobillah!) and that "he is only a figurehead mazoon!" List Of Who Said What To Me I am sincerely requesting all mumineen to go and ask these people whom I have named to reveal who the mazoon is in batin since they only believe in Syedi Khuzaima Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin as mazoon in zahir. If they are so right then why don’t they come out and contest their twisted beliefs? Are they afraid of the facts?! The fact is that Syedi Khuzaima Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin indeed is mazoon in zahir and in batin and there are no books in Dawat which say otherwise. Or have they written new books of Dawat on their own?!
These people have been pressuring me to say something against Syedi Mazoon Saheb because they know I truly believe in him as Aqamola's TUS mazoon in zahir and in batin. They have been using me for years as an instrument to attack Syedi Mazoon Saheb and this is why I have published my website. My website will remain online until these people ask for forgiveness to Aqamola TUS and finally are revealed to the world that they have done the most serious sin any mumin can do by breaking their misaaq. They have been threatening me with physical violence – this is how deep in the gutter they are! Just because they cannot explain their twisted beliefs they are willing to resort to physical violence?!
Fazal Bhai Januwala http://f_januwala.tripod.com/ has also given lots of evidence of the mountains of lies these people have spewed against Syedi Mazoon Saheb for over 14 years!
If Syedi Mazoon Saheb is not a pillar of ikhlaas and sabr than I don't know who is! If they go looking around the earth in every niche and corner they will not find another mazoon but Syedi Khuzaima Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin -- in zahir and in batin! I cry everyday and pray that Aqamola TUS receives Fateh Mubeen over these people and Syedi Mazoon Saheb through Aqamola TUS receives the same. I beg of you as a mumin brother and sister -- with my hands folded -- to forward my website (http://www.zahirbatin.com) and Fazal Bhai's website (http://f_januwala.tripod.com/) to as many mumineen as possible so that we can save all of them from this extraordinary fitnat and historically colossal attack upon Imam al-Zamaan's SA Dawat and His Dai al-Satr TUS.

If you have not received a cd or cassette please ask your neighbor as I have mailed these all around the world to various mumineen. They are trying to blame this person and that person to divert attention from their mischievous plots against Syedi Mazoon Saheb! They are diverting attention from their twisted tasawwur and perverted aqeeda of zahir-batin because they know they are wrong! And they are trying every way they can to prevent this from reaching Aqamola TUS! And they are still plotting against Aqamola TUS and His Dawat!

Abde Syedna TUS,
Taizoon
californiaguy

Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:01 am

[Maqbool]

They have never made public the videos of this event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gR61ag-5AE

from fatemidawat.com

The video is made private. any body has down loaded? Please post it on this forum.

[Sceptical]

Maqbool Bhai, please visit : http://fatemidawat.com/
All videos are on the main page.

[juzerali]

I am all in for progressives supporting Mazun sahab, it will be good consolidation of power for both sides. Someone rightly pointed out that people living in small towns where population of progressives is limited or nil faces a hard time speaking against the system lest they be dishonored by not given a place for burial. The sensitivity of time demands that both consolidate each others power through adding numbers. It will make remote progressives like myself to take a decision to leave the abde community for good. Bottom line, from perspective of masses, monopoly is dangerous while competition is healthy. Keep the competition alive.

[Sceptical]

http://fatemidawat.com/questions/

Interresting !
Well, instead of saying Lanat, SMS camp should supply the same kind of argumentation. I'm not an ambassador of any of both camp, but I'm higly impressed by the dignity SKQ camp is showing.

Qaid Johar bs, all of us konw he is a business man not a priest, has been appointed on the highest rutba of spiritulity after Dai

[Alhamdollilah]

I genuinely miss Bro.Al Zulfiqar !! His contribution to the thread would have added more spice to the discussions Kahan ho Bhai ?? Come back again !!

GM
Dont prove that you are doing this only for Spice !! These are very constructive discussions going on which might or might not lead to conclusions, but can help an individual decide his own directions. You have been instrumental in providing lot of justified inside information which helps the cause.

PS : Please dont spoil it bro by such remarks of Cynicism