Laanats and the Quran

[abde husayn]

salams,

khatmul quran is for SMB. We do matam majlis thereafter for aza of Imam Husain (as) as recommended by SMB. The videos are non essential but serve a point. Understand a majority of bohras do not follow the threads of whataps or search for articles on the internet. the youth definitely do...but they are NOT the ones doing the work in the jamats or attending most of the majalis to begin with.

lanat is per the quran and allah ta'ala says that just as you claim waliyat to the Imam and his Dai, so to you must call barat on those that oppose him. This should be on those that go directly against the dawat.
I think people forget they are cursing Shimar bin Joshn and his entire crew in the matam. People curse abu lahab everytime they recite Suratul Lahab (tabat yada).

[anajmi]

lanat is per the quran and allah ta'ala says that just as you claim waliyat to the Imam and his Dai, so to you must call barat on those that oppose him.

Actually, the Quran says no such thing. Cursing and Laanat should be used only for people who are deserving of them. For eg. you can say laanat on shaitaan and you can say laanat on Abu Lahab. But you cannot say laanat on Qutbuddin or anyone else that you have enemity with as they may actually be better than you and if that is the case, then the laanat comes back on you.

If we were to follow your logic, then I am allowed to say laanat on Mufaddal and Burhanuddin because lanat is per the Quran and Allahs says laanat on Abu Lahab.

[abde husayn]

anajmi,
read suratul barat. again research something before you speak.
exactly who made you the decider of who gets laanat? You say it is ok for people who deserved...who determines this (not you). you reasoning is childish in this manner.
If you follow kq...then you should say laanat on sms (na auzibillah). if you follow sms...then laanat on kq. The persons we are speaking about are the rep of the Imam on earth..not just some sheikh or mulla. they are guiding the mumin's religious belief.

[anajmi]

exactly who made you the decider of who gets laanat?

Actually, according to you, lanat is as per the Quran and baraat is as per the Quran and Allah said laanat on Abu Lahab. So I can say lanat on SMS and Burhanuddin and SKQ cause they've made all made a circus out of the mustali fatemi dawoodi bohra pristine jamaat and monkeys out of the abdes.

The persons we are speaking about are the rep of the Imam on earth..not just some sheikh or mulla. they are guiding the mumin's religious belief.

Actually, I am the rep of Imam. Neither of these two fools are!! The Imam came to my house yesterday and said that he was tired of the other two fighting like cats and dogs. Hence, he was choosing me.

[anajmi]

read suratul barat. again research something before you speak.

What does Suratul barat (Surah Tauba - surah number 9) say?

9:1 DISAVOWAL by God and His Apostle [is herewith announced] unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God, [and] with whom you [O: believers] have made a covenant.

Allah announces barat on those who ascribe divinity to aught besides Allah. Who are these? These are the bohra abdes. They claim that their Dai is ghaib na jaankar. They do sajda to the Dai. They say that no one can enter jannah without the permission of the Dai and the claim themselves to be abde Dai instead of abde Allah. Hence these bohras have associated divinity to their Dai and hence Allah's baraat is on these people.

[Mazakyo]

exactly who made you the decider of who gets laanat?

Actually, according to you, lanat is as per the Quran and baraat is as per the Quran and Allah said laanat on Abu Lahab. So I can say lanat on SMS and Burhanuddin and SKQ cause they've made all made a circus out of the mustali fatemi dawoodi bohra pristine jamaat and monkeys out of the abdes.

The persons we are speaking about are the rep of the Imam on earth..not just some sheikh or mulla. they are guiding the mumin's religious belief.

Actually, I am the rep of Imam. Neither of these two fools are!! The Imam came to my house yesterday and said that he was tired of the other two fighting like cats and dogs. Hence, he was choosing me.

Yaar anajmi idea acha hai. Elaan kar dey ta kay tujhe bhi public lanatey dena shuru kar dey.

[anajmi]

And here is the other glaring thing. When they stand in front of Allah, they have their hands on their sides, but when they stand in front of the Dai, they have their hands folded!!

[abde husayn]

salam anjami,
this why we should not just cut and paste translation without actually reading the Arabic

suratul barat (taubah)
Baraatun mina Allahi wa rasoolihi ila alazina ahadtum minaal mushrikeen
disassociated from Allah and his Rasul are those who did not keep their pledge/convenant (ahad or mithaq) from the muskrikeen.

if someone goes openly against the Dai, then there is barat and they are among the mushrikeen.

to have hands to the side in salat is per maula Ali riwayat of how rasullah prayed. there are many ahadiths where mumin would go to rasullah with hands forward or on their knees out of respect not worship...this was common among the arabs.

[anajmi]

Actually, the ayah is talking about Allah and his Rasul. The Dai is a shareek into the covenant. Hence followers of the Dai who ascribe divinity to him are mushriks. So I do baraat on all bohras.

There are many ahadith where the rasul of Allah prohibited people from bowing down before him or doing sajda to him.

[anajmi]

Here is another ayah of the Quran.

الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ الْكِتَابَ وَلَمْ يَجْعَل لَّهُ عِوَجَا

The Quran has been revealed for those who are the Abd of Allah. Abde Dai's do not count.

[abde husayn]

Anajmi
If you do not believe in the position of dai why are you on this forum?

Secondly you seem to take what you like and leave what you dont. Lakum dinakum walaydin.

[anajmi]

I haven't believed in the position of the bohra Dai for decades. I am on this forum to try and open the eyes of blind abdes.

Secondly you seem to take what you like and leave what you dont. Lakum dinakum walaydin.

I like only what the Quran suggests and leave only that which the Quran suggests. The Dai is an addition that is not a part of the Quran or Islam. He has converted the bohras into his abdes and in essence, into mushriks.

[JC]

Abdes 'believe' in buying/purchasing sawab and barakat by 'paying' to Dai and are looking forward to BUY aplace in Janat too ......... ofcourse with worldly money ....... that is this religion, or more appropriately cult.

[abde husayn]

Anajmi
Problem is your only using what you feel is right as your belief. You don't believe in dai even though moula ali was a dai of rasullah to yaman. You don't believe in imamate even though it is clearly in hadith. Quran and sunnah are there regardless if you understand them or not.

[anajmi]

Actually, I believe in Dai. Just not in the Bohra Dai. Dai is anyone who gives dawah to Islam. Your Dais don't do that anymore. When was the last time your Dai invited any non-muslim to Islam? He met with Modi and presented him with gifts but did he invite Modi to Islam? Of course not. Your Dai is the last one who should be compared with Ali.

There is no Imamate in the Quran or the Sunnah. These are fairy tales created by your Dais to put you guys to sleep and take your money.

The proof that Imamate does not exist was provided by the demise of your Dai and the circus that followed his death which we are all witnessing today!!

[Qutbi-Hero]

Anajmi
If you do not believe in the position of dai why are you on this forum?

Secondly you seem to take what you like and leave what you dont. Lakum dinakum walaydin.

Bro, you're new here so this should explain Anajmi to you = http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 53#p120653

His original post was edited by our clueless Admin, but Ana made it clear that he thinks Shias are all Kafir, and that Bohras should all become Sunni - he is a Wahhabi Recruiter, who pretends (very badly lol!) to be an Ex-Bohra

Still, it's good to have him around to kick about and ridicule... as this forum is pretty quiet most of the time lol!

[anajmi]

Here is how the Qutbi ridicules me.

anajmi - This is the problem with the bohras
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what the Quran says
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what Ali did.
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what the prophet did.
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is how rockets work
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol

That pretty much sums it up. LOL!!!

If you don't believe me, do a search on shaadi.com and see how many Qutbi hits come up. LOL yeah playa doodh!!!

[abde husayn]

anajmi,
the problem with your analysis is you assume you actually know what is right or wrong...without having even an iota of substance behind it. reading some translations of so called sahih hadith and a translation of quran doesn't make you knowledgable...on contrary, if you actually believed them you've become brainwashed yourself. The ayat I translated from suratul tawbah (barat) is a word for word translation. There isn't one sunni version even close to it, because it does fit their agenda.

your statement "Dai is anyone who gives dawah to Islam". Where did you read this or copy this from? By whose accord and authorization does the dai give dawah? who's dawah? The version you conceive in your head?

Rasullah sent dais to various location to teach. The dais were specifically taught by him and authorized by him to preach. they were instructed what to preach and more importantly what NOT to preach. For example, Salman al'Farsi wasn't allowed at first to give dawah in farsi to his own people. No one preached by their own accord. Heck, no one was allowed to give the azan or pray imamate namaz without the authorization (ie raza) of the prophet.

again, learn a little history before you start preaching to others.

[anajmi]

So what you are saying is that your dai is not truly a dai becuase he is not supposed to give dawah. That would actually make him even more useless.

[JC]

Had Imamat 'divine' one would not have seen a split as early as days after Imam Baqir when Ismail and Musa Kazim both claimed to be Imams ......... after them there are so many instances when similar issue split already divided shias.

[Muslim First]

Rasullah sent dais to various location to teach. The dais were specifically taught by him and authorized by him to preach. they were instructed what to preach and more importantly what NOT to preach. For example, Salman al'Farsi wasn't allowed at first to give dawah in farsi to his own people. No one preached by their own accord. Heck, no one was allowed to give the azan or pray imamate namaz without the authorization (ie raza) of the prophet.

Brother
Can you quote Ahidith which says all this about RAZA to give Adhan, RAZA to lead Prayers, RAZA to do Dawa, etc etc

No one preached on their accord!

Really ?
What made Hz Umar to convert, his sister And Brother an law reading Ayas of Quran in secret and he overheard it?
Did they have RAZA?

[Muslim First]

Rasullah sent dais to various location to teach. The dais were specifically taught by him and authorized by him to preach. they were instructed what to preach and more importantly what NOT to preach. For example, Salman al'Farsi wasn't allowed at first to give dawah in farsi to his own people. No one preached by their own accord. Heck, no one was allowed to give the azan or pray imamate namaz without the authorization (ie raza) of the prophet.

Brother
Can you quote Ahidith which says all this about RAZA to give Adhan, RAZA to lead Prayers, RAZA to do Dawa, etc etc

No one preached on their accord!

Really ?
What made Hz Umar to convert, his sister And Brother an law reading Ayas of Quran in secret and he overheard it?
Did they have RAZA?

You have been brain washed thouraly, whose RAZA Sunni get to propagate Islam?

[Al-Muizz]

anajmi,
the problem with your analysis is you assume you actually know what is right or wrong...without having even an iota of substance behind it. reading some translations of so called sahih hadith and a translation of quran doesn't make you knowledgable...on contrary, if you actually believed them you've become brainwashed yourself. The ayat I translated from suratul tawbah (barat) is a word for word translation. There isn't one sunni version even close to it, because it does fit their agenda.

your statement "Dai is anyone who gives dawah to Islam". Where did you read this or copy this from? By whose accord and authorization does the dai give dawah? who's dawah? The version you conceive in your head?

Rasullah sent dais to various location to teach. The dais were specifically taught by him and authorized by him to preach. they were instructed what to preach and more importantly what NOT to preach. For example, Salman al'Farsi wasn't allowed at first to give dawah in farsi to his own people. No one preached by their own accord. Heck, no one was allowed to give the azan or pray imamate namaz without the authorization (ie raza) of the prophet.

again, learn a little history before you start preaching to others.

Abde Husayn.....do you know what that means in Arabic?

Before I go on ridiculing your immaturity, let me tell you I'm an ardent supporter of Muffadal Moula TUS.

Now, let me begin debunking your mythology and your clear lack of your own understanding of history...BTW, I have reached very high in sabak...before you go to prove me how edumacated you really are;). First, when someone does not agree with you, it don't mean they don't know the difference between right or wrong......

So, here's the issue with you fanatics. You shoot first, and think later. An intelligent soul, according to Amir Ul Mumineen Ali AS, LOGICALLY thinks, DIGESTS, PONDERS, then believes. You are the typical rich abde who thinks shelling out money will buy you a 50 yard seat in Heaven. Your kibla are the rich and powerful...and you're here preaching others about their Aqeeda!!!Imbecile!

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Mr. Al Muizz i can proudly say that all the sabaqs you have attended have gone wasted!!!! I am sure Dai doesnt even know WTF you are!

[Qutbi-Hero]

Here is how the Qutbi ridicules me.

Yes, for example, this is how = http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 46#p121237

and this is how = http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 03#p123106

and one of my favourites is this short and sweet little number = http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 30#p120690

anajmi - This is the problem with the bohras
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what the Quran says
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what Ali did.
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is what the prophet did.
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol
anajmi - This is how rockets work
Qutbi - Shaadi.com lol

Everybody looks at your TWELVE THOUSAND post count and thinks you desperately need to find a woman and get laid lol - I'm the only one who says it to your face... and is giving you ideas on how to make it possible! Yet instead of thanking me, you reject my sincere advice!

That pretty much sums it up. LOL!!!

Actually this sums it up much better and more accurately :-

Wahhabi - You Shias are Unbelievers and should all become Sunni !!
Shia - No, we are on the right path and true Muslims
Wahhabi - You're wrong, Sunnis are the best and we are in the right !!
Shia - But you people are savages who are dragging the name of Islam through the mud all over the world
Wahhabi - Hey, have you seen that new Amir Khan movie?
Shia - Why are you changing the subject?
Wahhabi - Amir is great, I love his films!
Shia - Will you stop running away like a pussy!
Wahhabi - I never run !! Well, except when you speak the truth about Sunni'ism...
Shia - I know, you do this all the time - seriously, don't you think Sunni Hadiths and Theology are insane?
Wahhabi - I don't care !! We are the best and everything we do is correct, including not knowing how to pray Namaaz and being Takfiris !!
Shia - No, I've proven you wrong so many times, as have many other people
Wahhabi - Shut up Kafir !! I am an Islamic Scholar !!
Shia - No, you're just sexually frustrated, why don't you leave this forum and find a wife and be a happy Sunni with a happy life?
Wahhabi - Never !!
Shia - You should try
Wahhabi - I did try, but no woman wants me... who cares because I'm a Prophet !!
Shia - Please listen to me, You Are Not A Prophet
Wahhabi - Yes I am !! I am here to open your eyes !! Look at how many people I have converted to the truth !!
Shia - You've converted nobody, in fact hardly anybody even bothers to read your posts
Wahhabi - Bullshit !! I've converted at least a million people already !!
Shia - There are only 34 posters here, and none of the Shias have become Sunni
Wahhabi - Liar !! I have increased the united "Sunni Jammat" !!
Shia - There is no united "Sunni Jamaat" and you've only increased your own loneliness
Wahhabi - You wait and see Kafir !! I will convert you all by the end of this week !!
Shia - No you won't, despite trying for over a decade! Why don't you join a Hindu or Christian or Atheist forum, maybe you will have more luck there?
Wahhabi - No !! I'm scared of them, especially the Atheists, they cut Sunni'ism to pieces and make me doubt my faith !!
Shia - In that case you're not a Prophet or even a decent Scholar
Wahhabi - Yes I am a Prophet !! Why do you think Admin doesn't ban me like he should lol !!


Man, I could go on for a whole hour with this comedy gold-mine - maybe I will over the weekend!

[anajmi]

Sorry doodh, but your attempt is a miserable failure. See, what I posted were your words. But what you posted, were also your own words. Tsk Tsk. Where did you get your education doodh??? lol!!!! yeah playa lol!!

[Al-Muizz]

Mr. Al Muizz i can proudly say that all the sabaqs you have attended have gone wasted!!!! I am sure Dai doesnt even know WTF you are!

Akhtiar little kiddo, the problem with imbeciles like you is you talk first, then listen.....really not a good thing, tsk, tsk, tsk. Whether the Dai knows me or not is not the reason why I go to sabaq. Just because you disagree with the other side does not mean their belief is "totally wrong" or they don't know what is right or wrong. And unfortunately, unlike Ali AS who NEVER said any lanaats or ghaali's, I will rip you a new a$$hole, when I feel like it:) And no, I didn't learn it in sabaq, but the University of Life...where a spoilt shitty brat like you would never make it past 1st base;)

[abde husayn]

Salam Al-Muizz,
While you responded with a lot of name calling...you didn't actually correct or "debunk" anything I wrote. Alhamdullah on your sabaqs attendance. btw sabaq has a q for qaf not a k for kahf. qibla also has a qaf.

When I disagree with someone, I tell them why I disagree and then bring forth the reasons and proofs of my disagreement.

I disagree with anajmi on the idea of Dai historically position based the history of Maulana Ali to Rasullah for example. The statements I made are facts and are also referenced in Uyun al'Akbar by Sayenda Idris Imadudin (ra). All the Imams had dais at various jazeerahs that would report back to the Imam az'Zaman and take farman or risalah to the mumineen of the region. Maula Abdullah and Maula Nuruddin were trained in Cairo by Imam Mustansir (as) and sent to Hind to perform dawat (ie they were dais). It was through them the Maula Tarmal and Bharmal came to Islam and began the silsila of dais in India.
It wasn't until Imam Tayyib (as) that the position of dai al mutlaq was formulated to be the rep of Imam.
To further the point, there were many dai al'duat (dai of the dais or supreme dai) during the Imam zuhur in our history that oversaw the various dais of the regions. Sayedna Muyyad din Shirazi reached this apex for example.

btw abde husayn means servant or slave of Husayn (refering to Imam Husayn) and I am neither rich nor powerful. I just listen to the bayans of my Maula (tus).

[anajmi]

I disagree with anajmi on the idea of Dai historically position based the history of Maulana Ali to Rasullah for example.

The relationship between Ali and Rasul (saw) should not be extrapolated to all and sundry. There is nothing similar between either of these two great entities and the fake bohra Dai. When it came to Islam these two went to battle where as the bohra Dai ran away. He didn't even have the balls to declare his own successor without a reasonable doubt!!

were trained in Cairo by Imam Mustansir (as) and sent to Hind to perform dawat

Hence my question earlier about what work of dawat did the 52nd bohra Dai ever do? Did he invite a single non-dawoodi to dawoodi-ism? And this was your senseless response

your statement "Dai is anyone who gives dawah to Islam". Where did you read this or copy this from? By whose accord and authorization does the dai give dawah? who's dawah? The version you conceive in your head?

Your Dai had the permission of your Imam right? Who did he give dawah to? Did he give Dawah to Modi when he gave him gifts? It is time for you guys to come out of your stupor. Your Dai is dead and he leaves behind a legacy of greed and high handedness. The current chaos is actually a gift from Allah for the bohras with a little bit of sense. Make good use of it before it is gone.

[anajmi]

Unless ofcourse the dawoodi bohra dawah is not a dawah to Islam but a dawah to 2 kharas 2 mithas. In that case, yes, your Dai did a lot of that!!