Have a Thought in This

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
mumin_mukhlish
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am

Have a Thought in This

#1

Unread post by mumin_mukhlish » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:45 pm

Mr. In Saap,
Just have one thought:

Are u ppl able to do anything else besides just barking on this message board?.. Nothing..
Just see the world out of this message board, out of ur PC, out of Udaipur ;) and see wat progress bohra community has done under the guidance of moula(TUS)? everywhere community gathering,jamaats, masjid and respect on every corner of the world and unique identity.

Just give me a single example where u jhannami have got even a single achievment in ur day to day life. Dhoondhte reh jaoge ;) . Be Practical

Cases against moula? abusive language against moula? Excuse on each and every activity carried out by Moula(TUS) or his followers. Are these ur achievments?..Thats all

I read some of the older posts and found the ppl who are even not aware of the concept of dais,Imams but only know how to use abusive language against moula and u r proud of having these ppl in ur group. Even God can't bless u.

Above post is not for any pet dog. so all pet dog please excuse ;)

taha52
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#2

Unread post by taha52 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:29 am

LOOKS LIKE THESE GUYS HAVE BIT THERE OWN TONGUE AND HAVE NOTHIN TO SAY.

PURRI GEL GAI :eek:

khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#3

Unread post by khan19922001 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:06 am

God what a sick community. Thank god I had the sense to get out and stay out, at the right time. I feel that any attempts to make the Ortho's see reason is hopeless. I also believe that if you do not agree with the Dai you should be do a clean cut and get out. No use pretendig to stay in the community and raising voices. If rational educated people want to follow the Dai, there is nothing anybody can do. Reformist are just wasting time.

Regards

mumu
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#4

Unread post by mumu » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:49 am

asger E,

This is not proper language. What will happen if the great Aqa Maula hears? Let me tell you, there is sawaab only if you suck on kothari pencils. Any other pencil will only cause blisters in your mouth. Kothari pencils are washed by "phook nu pani". Only problem is that you have to pay to sharpen a kothari pencil.
Admin,
Now is this the right language you want all of us to talk in. This post seem very interesting to you all reformist. And all of you reformist will agree that this is the so called truth.
And if i tell the same thing about Azger & InSaap in my post then these reformist will say it is abusive language.
I mean it is ridiculious if do not want to listen the truth you can immidiately delete our ids so that you all will be free to talk shit on this website.

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#5

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:24 pm

Khan,

You may have your reasons to “get out and stay out” – and I respect that. But you must accept that Sayedna and his corrupt regime cannot go unchallenged. Somebody has to do that challenging – from within or without. If everybody used your reasoning and “got out” there would be no change or progress. There are millions of rational, educated people who support baby Bush and his illegal, immoral war in Iraq/Afghanistan. Do you think those who are challenging Bush and opposing his policies wasting their time? (By the way, there are more dangerous, deranged and foul-mouthed nuts in the Bush camp than we can ever hope to find on this board.)

munmin_mukhlis,

So long as you consider yourself a slave of another human being nothing that I say will ever make sense to you. It is really that basic. Unfortunately, your mental apparatus is not evolved enough to comprehend this. Taking you seriously is what I call a real waste of time.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#6

Unread post by porus » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:09 pm

Have you wondered why everyone refers to mumin_mukhlish as mumin_mukhlis (sans final h)?

Mukhlish, with a 'sheen' is not an Arabic word. I assume he meant to it to be with a final 'seen'.

In that case, Mukhlish, according to Hans Wehr, means embezzler, defalcator, pilferer, filcher, swiper and puloiner.

That rather nicely sums up the attributes of a Kothar dupe.

mumin_mukhlish
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#7

Unread post by mumin_mukhlish » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:24 pm

Unfortunately, your mental apparatus is not evolved enough to comprehend this. Taking you seriously is what I call a real waste of time.
Humsafar,
This is the best way to hide failures. I am still waiting for the list of achivements.

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#8

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:49 pm

Porus,
Good catch - your eye is as keen as your mind.

mumin_mukhlis(h),

Leave alone "a list of achivements". Just one is enough - that we have an open mind, can think for ourselves and are no one's slave. The basic liberty and simple courage to be able do this is superior to all the pomp and pageantry that you associate with Dai and his Dawat. But, as I said, you do not have the brains or culture to understand this.

Average Bohra
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#9

Unread post by Average Bohra » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:08 pm

mumin_mukhlish,

Can you list some achievements of the orthodox Bohra Community ? Unless of course you classify jamaats and “gatherings” as achievements. As far as the respect on every corner of the world I have traveled extensively and no one knows who the Bohras are.

I will grant you the “unique identity” bit….though you could also hang out on a street corner in India with a red Polka-dotted loin cloth and a Pink turban, and also have unique identity that you speak of.

kalim
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#10

Unread post by kalim » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:28 pm

Dear mumin_mukhlish,

As a devoted follower of the da'i (a messenger-of-peace, a prince-of-forgiveness) why don't you take the moral high ground and be courteous with those of differing views or with those who choose to abuse your cherished leaders? Or is it that the message of peace preached by the da'i is is only a blanket to hide a deep felt intolerance and insecurity?

This is a free forum unlike the ones hosted by sycophants like malumaat or mumineen.org. The concept of free speech may be alien to you but it sometime involves people using harsh language too. If you feel that the progressive demands for transparency, local jamaat autonomy, freedom of conscience, non-interference in secular matters, reducing a common bohra's financial burden etc. are misguided please share your views and we can have a healthy and useful discussion on it. Of course, as I suspect, you may have actually nothing to contribute because your knowledge of your religion, its history, philosophy and about the world outside your markaz-masjid may be close to zero. Maybe your rantings on this board are a sign of your deep ignorance. You can choose to remain in a state of ignorance but a few of us don't. Learning the reality can be a harsh experience but one can emerge stronger.

Anyway, if you have some genuine issues to discuss please feel free to do so. If you want to read baroque and bombastic praises of the sayedna and an assorted set of dead people or see autographs of politicians or the rich and famous please visit malumaat or mumineen or their ilk. Here there is a genuine chance of you learning something but there is also the danger that you will ultimately loose faith in the dawaat administration. Of course there is a possibility that you will impress everyone by your good manners and make them more receptive of your message. And please, as Humsafar has said before, do not take silence as a sign of weakness: no one wants to engage in discussions with a chap who hurls lanaats or engages in ad hominem attacks on those who do not agree with him.

mumin_mukhlish
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#11

Unread post by mumin_mukhlish » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:47 am

Posted by Average Bohra:
As far as the respect on every corner of the world I have traveled extensively and no one knows who the Bohras are.
This is the perfect examples of difference between progressive and the followers of dai. I travelled extensively too and wherever i go(of cuz with beard and traditional dress with topi), i always get special requests out of others, even in USA(Anti Muslim rule as claimed by u).But u dont posses any level to understand all such things.
As far as Vazebaat(bohra's financial burden claimed by u) is concerned, every year i give more and more and evry year i get much more barakaat in my income and i know countless ppl who have become more and more rich after increase in vazebaat year after year(You can give me even a single example who have lost anything after giving vazebaat). This is all about faith and i m sure if,by mistake, u wud have paid vazebaat in the past, you were forced to but not you were willing to. As i said , its being beyond ur level of understanding bcz your knowledge of religion, its history, philosophy and about the world outside our markaz-masjid may be much more higher than us as claimed by Mr. Kalim :D

Let me tell you one famous moaziza of the barakaat of moula(tus)(Hope you posses enough knowledge to understand this)

You all must be knowing Shk. Mutazabhai Dahodwala(Saifee Hospital, 52 Crore Rs.). He is from Boston and start of year 2001, he wanted to install his wireless patent througout the WTC towers and had to pay $5.2 bn to Government of USA and he asked for Aqa Moula's raza for this deal and moula denied to give raza for this deal and everybody knows what happened on Sept. 11,2001 and he was saved from major loss.The very next day, Murtaza bhai flew off to meet Aqa Maula, and when he did, he fell on his knees and cried, and was amazed how Aqa Maula had saved him from a MAJOR loss.

Now,for u ppl, above is a coincident. Am i correct?

saif
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#12

Unread post by saif » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:27 am

Mumin_Mukhlish:
Please "walk the talk". Provide evidence for this anecdote (not reported anywhere any time by anyone except here and now)and responses to the following questions:
1. What's an installation of wireless patent?
2. $5.2 Bn. dollars? Wow! When the Sheikh sold his business, he apparently sold it for about $480 million or so. Do you know how much the WTC buildings cost in the first place?
3. What loss? As a business man, a person is always covered by vaious insurances!.The client, USA government always insists on it and so does the bank before dishing out such a contract - if at all!
O'h! so, sorry, it is haram to have insurance! Perhaps he told his client and Kothar's buddy Bush and the banks that his "leader" has asked him not to insure anything. And they all must have complied!!!

Average Bohra
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#13

Unread post by Average Bohra » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:02 am

You appear to have engaged in too much “assambosi”.

1. USA(Anti Muslim rule as claimed by u)
When ?
2. wherever i go(of cuz with beard and traditional dress with topi), i always get special requests out of others
Other than requests to pose for pictures by tourists, what special requests do you get ? Is this your idea of a Bohra achievement ?
3Vazebaat(bohra's financial burden claimed by u)
When ?
4. and i know countless ppl who have become more and more rich after increase in vazebaat
So you are a recipient of increasing Vazebaats ? Please email me your personal details and I will mail you a vazebaat check, provided you get some education.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.....

Kaka Akela
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#14

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:08 am

I consider Br. Kalim to be voice of reason. Please all of us let us not get emotional and think through the systematic draining of money from people to Dawat-e-Hadiyah (USA) which legally transfers it to Dawat-e-Hadiyah(India) and there it is withdrawan for all kinds of abuse familial use.
Recently in SF they were charging $52,000 for each ziafat and $72,000 for each hadiyath (Shaikh panu), $21,000 for each nikah. Are these things for sale???? No matter how bad your character may be if you have the money and you can be a Shaik? is this right? You cook many many fancy dishes for all the underlings of Syedna (Syedna eats very simple jamans), do the decorations and other salaams to underlings can cost into thousands more, do these people have any heart for people's pain to dole away such great sums of money. I can't explain why people do it but I want to know why they set such high prices for everything????
Nikah function takes no more than 5 minutes if done very slowly for that $21,000. What will happen if for one year everyone in the whole world decided not to do any nikah on Syedna's hand, or do his ziafat or want hadiyat from him, there source of finance will dry out. Mumin_ Mukhlish says the more vajebaat he gives he gets more barakat. he is seeing back wards. the more he gives, next year they would want more so he has to woork harder and longer that brings him the barakat he is talking about because there is always justice (Adal) with Allah. I think all bohris have to unite in some way and refuse to give in to such demands of excessive monies and then see what happens.

mumin_mukhlish
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#15

Unread post by mumin_mukhlish » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:27 am

Average Bohra,
To know the answers of 2) & 3) read the posts from Kalim and other reformists and then comment.

To get the answer of (4) ,try to get some little knowledge abt islam to knw who shd be recpnt and who shd be sender. perhaps ur leaders(Insaap and Engineer) forgot to teach u basic principles of islam.
Perfect example of illiteracy.

To get the ans 2), its difficult as i said it is beyond ur level of thinking.

Saif :
I don't have to produce evidence. Its ur call to believe or not. FYI, I personally know Shk. Murtazabhai and it shd be enough for me to believe. Nobody forces u to believe and it doesn't matter for me to make u believe or not.

Admin and mbohra :
"Assambosi" -
What does ur credibility say abt this word posted by Average Bohra?

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#16

Unread post by tahir » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:47 am

In most of the mid sized towns of western India, where a majority of bohri population is concentrated, no one knows about the community beyond a radius of 3-4 kms of their residential ghettos (called wadis, gallis, mohallas etc.). On the contrary, Parsis are just around 90000 in population and are concentrated in mumbai, surat and navsari (90% in mumbai) but are known in every corner of the country. This is due to their achievements in almost all walks of life - industries, sports, politics, administration, entertainment, social work etc. If you go to the remotest corner of India, say Nagaland, Laddakh or Andaman and ask anyone on the street "Do you know Jamshedji TATA"?, the chances are that he'll nod his head in affirmative while if you ask him "Do you know Sayyedna Burhanuddin"?,.... well its anyone's guess!!.... Even in the Indian capital New Delhi no one knows dai burhanuddin, let alone knowing what is bohraism. The last time I checked, the Indian constitution does not recognise "Dawoodi Bohras" as a separate minority commmunity the way it recognises "Jains", "Sikhs", "Parsis" and "Buddhists".

But to be fair to them, bohris do have their share of popularity. In places in India where bohris live, the employees of electricity, water supply and tax department know bohris because of their widespread theft and attempts of bribing the officials. Similarly some government employees in the gulf countries know bohris cuz these are the people most caught for illegal immigration, producing fake documents, over staying, spreading garbage in the neighbourhood and indulging in illigal hawking of goods (like perfumes, chocolates, electronics, garments etc.). The employees of Jeddah hajj terminal know bohris as the most noisy, indisciplined, uncivilised and dirt spreading people they ever see on hajj (Bangladeshis are much better). Would u believe that bohris fight like dogs for getting a window seat in chartered flights!!

Needless to say JAISA RAJA VAISI PRAJA.

Now lets take the example of another spiritual head Dalai Lama . With just 2 million followers not as well spread and not half as affluent as bohris, he is atleast 50 times more pupular in the world than dai burhanuddin. The latter is just known to the monarchs of a couple of underdeveloped countries (Tanzania etc.) where with the exploitation money he purchases some temporary honour to impress the blind followers back home. The followers in turn, gleefully dance and sing on seeing some formal letters of "praises" on maulmaat.com. On the other hand, Dalai Lama is not only well known among the state heads of almost all the big countries of the world, he has also earned an immense popularity among the non lama population of many developed countries and has inspired many famous people to adopt Buddhism. A prominent example is hollywood star Richard Gere. As an spiritual head, his simplicity and charm is magnetic and preachings are appealing. He has renounced palatial residences in Tibet and has chosen to live in a simple ashram in Dharmshala (H.P.) to fight for the cause of his people. His sacrifice has earned him respect around the globe. The same cannot be said about dai burhanuddin who usually turns off even bohris (the reformist kind), let alone others. Most of the people who want to convert to bohraism are the ones who had fallen in love with a bohri guy/girl and want to marry them.

Bohras at best are shopkeepers with the singular "achievement" of constructing jamatkhanas, mousoleums and musafirkhanas (by exploitation money). Of late, many have started persuing professional degrees (BE, MBBS, MBA, CA etc.) which unfortunately havnt helped them come out of the dark well they live in. The educational degrees at best have turned obscure shopkeepers into obscure corporate employees with their brains still mortgaged to kothar.

Most of the people in India know bohris as comic characters- timid, insecure and greedy; crowding like sheep and shouting on streets with their funny Gujrati. Whenever the dai visits a town, the few people who know bohris gather around to see the tamasha, to watch the bohri circus of so many people crowding and shouting "MAULA MAULA" on the streets and creating a traffic jam and noise pollution. Every spectator goes home with bagful of fun and laughter besides some disgust of inconvenience. And the bohris go home thinking the dai is so popular!!

In mumbai, no one knows bohris beyond bhendi bazaar or some small sub urban pockets in nagpada, ghat ko par, jogeshwari, malad, byculla etc. This is shameful considering the fact that the city has been the seat of the dawat for almost a century now. They failed to make themselves heard even after the dai did publicity stunts like making a hospital (now dysfunctional) on Charni road and wasting lakhs of bohri money on live telecast of the show. Even on Charni road, very few people actually know that there is a community called "dawoodi bohras" with a leader named Burhanuddin (though most of them are familiar with the name of Adamji Peerbhoy as a philanthropist). All they know is that a new hospital is constructed in their area.

guest786
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#17

Unread post by guest786 » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:00 am

dear mumin_mukhlish,
I was just wondering what is wajebaat??? sorry abt my ignorance abt the word wajebaat but it wud nice if u cud explain me what it is and why is it compulsory and where in islam it is a mandatory entity. Also why it is increased every year even though there is no increase in ur income.
I am working day and night so that inshallah this year i can send my parents to haj. when my dad went for a approval (as u know we require safai chithi for everything) for haj he was asked to pay money for niyaz which we have to pay every year even though they are fully sponsored by people who do niyaz. and this time it was increased by 150%. when asked wat was the reason... no answer....just bcoz my parents are going to haj we were just compelled to pay the amount. After which there was a laga for haj (i dont know the meaning of laga... u mightbe well aware). what is this laga? after taking so much pain and doing so much hard work still there is no consideration. and im just afraid what will happen in ramazan when they will ask for other things..... i m working almost 7 days a week for this. even though when i come from a lower middle class family there is still no consideration. do u think its fair ?? do u think its right the way things are going on.... i hope u do understand my point. do u think that just paying money for niyaz and laga and wajebaat we will be clean and our haj will be valid ??

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:27 pm

guest786,

An oppressed who does not raise his voice is as bad as the oppressor.

Raise your voice and tell the kothar to f--- off.

Marry a sunni girl if you have to or get buried in a sunni kabrastan. Go to haj with the sunni jamaat. Millions do!!

Show kothar the finger and be a free man.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:30 pm

Even during ramadan, pay what Allah has made farz to those that deserve it, not to the kothar. Stop going to the kothar mosque and go to a sunni mosque instead. I did.

I pray lailatulqadr 5 nights during ramadan, all at home. I pray taraweeh with the sunni jamaat.

Alhumdulillah I have a lot of barakaat too and I do not have to suffer the humiliation that kothar inflicts on its victims.

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#20

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:22 pm

guest786,

I know it is easier said than done, but your father and you should start questioning the Amil. Demand answers as to why he increased the Haj “fees”. If you think that the increase is unreasonable and that you cannot afford then at some point – if you want things to change – you will have to say NO. Just refuse to pay. But it is never that easy, especially for an individual or an individual family. It would be heroic but may prove to be futile because, we can’t make a dent on entrenched bureaucracy by individual and isolated acts of protest. Your family will be “baraated”, humiliated and all of it will be soon forgotten.

However, it always helps if you can find an ally or still better, allies. There must be other families going on Haj who are in a similar predicament. Get in touch with them, find out what they think about the increased “fees”, if they feel the same as you do, get together – 2 families, 4 families, 10 families – go to the Amil and say you are not going to pay. This group protest can start with a single issue – Haj fees – but as time goes by you all can take up other issues that plague your local jamaat.

Remember that it is much easier for the Amil to deal with one individual, but if he’s faced with 10 families he can’t brush them aside. That’s peoples’ power. The keyword is: Organise. Of course, it all calls for ingenuity, guts and the will to stick one’s neck out.

But being docile and suitably domesticated, Bohras would rather prefer to pay up and shut up. Who wants trouble? The Kothar knows this and takes full advantage of it. But the fact remains, nothing will change unless and until Bohras collectively start making noise and refuse to submit to the Amil’s demands. Start small and then move on to bigger things. This is how it has always worked, this is how historically people have won rights, dignity and better working conditions.

Of course, your father can go on Haj on his own as Anajmi suggests, but that is hardly the solution. The amil/kothar will always have other captive victims. There’s no alternative to staying put and fighting back. Quitting is the easiest thing to do.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:49 pm

Humsafar,

There is a difference between quitting and doing the right thing. Are you suggesting that guest786 should pay the fees if the Amil decides to make an exception and lower them?

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:59 pm

Besides, don't you think you are the wrong person to be giving advise about Haj and other matters of faith?

khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#23

Unread post by khan19922001 » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:24 am

I am very perturbed to read mumin_muklish comments that Dawood somebody fell on Moula's feet and thanked Moula for saving him from such a big loss. While not doubting that this Dawood character fell on Moula's feet, I am sad to know that Bohri's have now given Maula the ability to see the future ( alam ul gaib) If this is not "shirk" I don't know what is then "shirk"

There are clear verses in the Quran which state that only God has the ability to know the future and not even the Prophet (PBUH) had this ability.

I read a very apt Quranic verse yesterday in the Masjid which went like if God wishes protect anyone than nothing can stoop him and if God wishes to punish somebody, nothing can stip him. All good and bad happenings are therefore attributable to God. I will bring the exact refernce next time. If someone know about the Ayat please quote for the benefit of the likes of mumin_muklish.

Interestingly if Maula knew about 9/11 why did he not inform the American authoriites and saved thousands of human lives and earn the goodwill of the American people for ever.

Regards

khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#24

Unread post by khan19922001 » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:26 am

Sorry its not Dawood but Mustafa Dohadwalla.

Regards

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#25

Unread post by tahir » Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:46 pm

Interestingly if Maula knew about 9/11 why did he not inform the American authoriites and saved thousands of human lives and earn the goodwill of the American people for ever.
That is quite a point. The maula also failed to foresee the Babri Masjid riots and Gujrat riots in which the bohris suffered loss of life and property. For every so called "maujiza" in which some one is saved or gets benefits through maula's advice, there are atleast 50 people who suffer losses due to the same. I know of an ailing sheikh saab from Pune who was adviced by maula to go and get admitted in KEM hospital in mumbai. He died on the way due to the hassles of road journey. Had he trusted his own discretion (instead of maula's), he would have lived. The kothar PR machinary never lets such incidences leak out along with the "miracles" which are nothing but pure coincidences. By laws of probability, If 50 people come to me for an advice for which there are 2 outcomes, the chances are that 25 times I will be right. In the case of maula, the kothar passes those 25 as maujizas.

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#26

Unread post by tahir » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:14 pm

As far as Vazebaat(bohra's financial burden claimed by u) is concerned, every year i give more and more and evry year i get much more barakaat in my income and i know countless ppl who have become more and more rich after increase in vazebaat year after year(You can give me even a single example who have lost anything after giving vazebaat).
I found a very relevant verse from Gita over this. If someone is allergic to names of Hindu gods just replace Krishna with Allah in the interpretetion of the verse which is a commentary by Swami Prabhupad , founder of ISKCON (international society for krishna consciousness).

Chapter 4. Transcendental Knowledge
TEXT 12
kanksantah karmanam siddhim
yajanta iha devatah
ksipram hi manuse loke
siddhir bhavati karma-ja


TRANSLATION
Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities, and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world.

COMMENTARY BY PRABHUPAD (just relevant extracts)
There is a great misconception about the gods or demigods of this material world, and men of less intelligence, although passing as great scholars, take these demigods to be various forms of the Supreme Lord....God is one, and the parts and parcels are many...Even the great demigods like Brahma and Siva cannot be compared to the Supreme Lord. In fact, the Lord is worshiped by demigods such as Brahma and Siva (siva-virinci-nutam)....
However, foolish people (hrt-ajnana) worship the demigods because they want immediate results. They get the results, but do not know that results so obtained are temporary and are meant for less intelligent persons. The intelligent person is in Krsna consciousness, and he has no need to worship the paltry demigods for some immediate, temporary benefit. The demigods of this material world, as well as their worshipers, will vanish with the annihilation of this material world. The boons of the demigods are material and temporary. Both the material worlds and their inhabitants, including the demigods, and their worshipers, are bubbles in the cosmic ocean. In this world, however, human society is mad after temporary things such as the material opulence of possessing land, family and enjoyable paraphernalia. To achieve such temporary things, they worship the demigods or powerful men in human society. If a man gets some ministership in the government by worshiping a political leader, he considers that he has achieved a great boon. All of them are therefore kowtowing to the so-called leaders or "big guns" in order to achieve temporary boons, and they indeed achieve such things. Such foolish men are not interested in Krsna consciousness for the permanent solution to the hardships of material existence. They are all after sense enjoyment, and to get a little facility for sense enjoyment they are attracted to worship empowered living entities known as demigods

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:55 pm

002.284
YUSUFALI: To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.

005.018
YUSUFALI: (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

017.054
YUSUFALI: It is your Lord that knoweth you best: If He please, He granteth you mercy, or if He please, punishment: We have not sent thee to be a disposer of their affairs for them.

009.050
YUSUFALI: If good befalls thee, it grieves them; but if a misfortune befalls thee, they say, "We took indeed our precautions beforehand," and they turn away rejoicing.

009.051
YUSUFALI: Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.

010.049
YUSUFALI: Say: "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth. To every people is a term appointed: when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation)."

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#28

Unread post by Humsafar » Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:12 pm

Anajmi,

What I'm suggesting is that people who have a problem with the Kothar must orgainse. Take up small issues first and move on to bigger ones. And do it as a group, from the position of strength. Going solo - from within or without - is of little consequence.

As for giving advise, I may be the wrong person to give advise on anything. Nor do I fancy myself in that role. But if you noticed, the issue was not Haj - it's about Kothar's extortion.

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#29

Unread post by tahir » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:31 am

Most of the times on the forum when there are quotes from Quran, I see the term YUSUF ALI. I am curious to know what does it stand for. Is it a synonym for prophet ? I have read through an english version of Quran by Dr. Mohammed Kasim Khan but couldnt find the name YUSUF ALI as such anywhere.

Muslim
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Have a Thought in This

#30

Unread post by Muslim » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:12 am

"Yusuf Ali" refers to Abdullah Yusuf Ali, one of the most well known translators of the Quran.
Originally posted by tahir:
Most of the times on the forum when there are quotes from Quran, I see the term YUSUF ALI. I am curious to know what does it stand for. Is it a synonym for prophet ? I have read through an english version of Quran by Dr. Mohammed Kasim Khan but couldnt find the name YUSUF ALI as such anywhere.