GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
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Hussain_KSA
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Welcome back arif.
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africawalla
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:01 am
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Arif is asking the same questions I have been asking you guys 'whats the plan of action', whats are you going to do to get your frustration out, how are you going to mobilise support to stop people paying money ? what do you need to convince the mainstreams on your point of view? Its easy to rant and give Gaalis like what Zulfikar is brilliant at , I think Arif has balls to ask the relevant questions, so my question to Tahir, Saiffudin and Zulfukar is what are you doing about it?
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
My dear colleague,Originally posted by Gulf:
Hey funny!! if in short he has balls, so what? everybody have balls in their shorts, look at your friends RSS & co. evs and everyone of them have short and balls in short... what did they do for their community nothing but bullshit!Originally posted by Hozefa:
Totally agreed with Areef. In short Aaref has balls!! His Q should be resolved by the existing (in forum) rational thinkers.
Whenever you do not have balls to speak the truth then you shuld keep quite and keep your balls clean.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
The progressive movement and this website have already produced results. Just talking and bringing the crimes of TUS and Family to light, the work of Asghar Ali Engineer, the revolts in Udaipur, etc. have all had their effects.
Even now, particularly in the West, in Jamaats like chicago, Toronto, New York and L.A., more and more young people are beginning to see what the real truth is. Smart Bohris are beginning to close their pocketbooks and are starting to walk away from the expoitations of the kothar and their Bhagwaan.
Already in Illinois, the IRS has been notified about possible financial impropriety by Anjumane Saifee Chicago. The reformists are acting and causing change. Just because not everything we do is transparent to the rest of you, does not mean that things are not happening.
Instead of supporting or even trying to undertsand the progressive movement,there are those who come here only to pretend that they support the reformist cause, yet they find reason to provoke and denigrate the attempts made by reformists to bring accountability to this so-called Da'wat.
Why even join this forum? Some of you come here and spew your filth, gaalis, fitnat, and hatred of the reformist movement. When we stand up for what we believe in, and question your Syed's methods, you become upset. Yet you still come here.
When we propose what should be done, some of you try and ridicule and pester us. I suggested some time ago that the day has come to stop the sajdaa in front of Burhanuddin. I've proposed that we form boards made up of community members, not chamchas and rich, *** -kissers.
If you have a problem with what we are trying to achieve, then you should figure out how to deal with your problem.
Whenever we decide what it is we will believe in and support, there is a tirade of "Then leave, we don't need you". Frankly, we could say the same thing.
What we need is positive,constructive support, not hypocrites and pot-stirrers.
Speaking out of both sides of your mouths, some of you really sound just like the hypocrites that your Syed cautions you about. You will not change anyone's views with your nonsense - nor would I hope to change your views.
What I do hope and wish for is that you try and understand - and stop pretending to be something else.
Even now, particularly in the West, in Jamaats like chicago, Toronto, New York and L.A., more and more young people are beginning to see what the real truth is. Smart Bohris are beginning to close their pocketbooks and are starting to walk away from the expoitations of the kothar and their Bhagwaan.
Already in Illinois, the IRS has been notified about possible financial impropriety by Anjumane Saifee Chicago. The reformists are acting and causing change. Just because not everything we do is transparent to the rest of you, does not mean that things are not happening.
Instead of supporting or even trying to undertsand the progressive movement,there are those who come here only to pretend that they support the reformist cause, yet they find reason to provoke and denigrate the attempts made by reformists to bring accountability to this so-called Da'wat.
Why even join this forum? Some of you come here and spew your filth, gaalis, fitnat, and hatred of the reformist movement. When we stand up for what we believe in, and question your Syed's methods, you become upset. Yet you still come here.
When we propose what should be done, some of you try and ridicule and pester us. I suggested some time ago that the day has come to stop the sajdaa in front of Burhanuddin. I've proposed that we form boards made up of community members, not chamchas and rich, *** -kissers.
If you have a problem with what we are trying to achieve, then you should figure out how to deal with your problem.
Whenever we decide what it is we will believe in and support, there is a tirade of "Then leave, we don't need you". Frankly, we could say the same thing.
What we need is positive,constructive support, not hypocrites and pot-stirrers.
Speaking out of both sides of your mouths, some of you really sound just like the hypocrites that your Syed cautions you about. You will not change anyone's views with your nonsense - nor would I hope to change your views.
What I do hope and wish for is that you try and understand - and stop pretending to be something else.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Safiuddin,
I am really trying hard to imagine you as one of the brave Soldiers of Husain's army fighting against yazid.
But please believe me that everytime I try to do that you thourougly dissappoint me.
Can you please tell us about your achievements as a reformist? Do you even have the balls to come out in open and critize the kothar?
Also, I have seen that the self proclaimed reformist heroes on this site are the ones who use the filthiest language at slightest provocation.
I do not know about others but I can tell you about myself. I joined this site thinking that I will genuinely learn something good about the reform movement. I thought people out here would be talking about how to bring sensible reforms in the community. But unfortunately there is nothing like that out here. There is a strong sense of groupism. You have to be on one side. If you give galis and laanat to kothar and syedna you will get lot of support and encouragement from others. Otherwise, even though you are unhappy with the current administration you will be branded as a kothari with a fake ID.
So, dude please stop acting like a saint and giving these lectures.
Also, please answer this question of mine. Why is the state of Daawat worst then it was 35 years back? Why is the kothar more powerful today then it was ever before?
If you do not have concrete answers to these questions then please do not bother to reply to my post.
Continue living in your world of fantasy
Zannat ki haqiqat humko maalum hein Ghalib
Lekin dil ko behlaane ke liye khyaal achcha hein
I am really trying hard to imagine you as one of the brave Soldiers of Husain's army fighting against yazid.
But please believe me that everytime I try to do that you thourougly dissappoint me.
Can you please tell us about your achievements as a reformist? Do you even have the balls to come out in open and critize the kothar?
Also, I have seen that the self proclaimed reformist heroes on this site are the ones who use the filthiest language at slightest provocation.
I do not know about others but I can tell you about myself. I joined this site thinking that I will genuinely learn something good about the reform movement. I thought people out here would be talking about how to bring sensible reforms in the community. But unfortunately there is nothing like that out here. There is a strong sense of groupism. You have to be on one side. If you give galis and laanat to kothar and syedna you will get lot of support and encouragement from others. Otherwise, even though you are unhappy with the current administration you will be branded as a kothari with a fake ID.
So, dude please stop acting like a saint and giving these lectures.
Also, please answer this question of mine. Why is the state of Daawat worst then it was 35 years back? Why is the kothar more powerful today then it was ever before?
If you do not have concrete answers to these questions then please do not bother to reply to my post.
Continue living in your world of fantasy
Zannat ki haqiqat humko maalum hein Ghalib
Lekin dil ko behlaane ke liye khyaal achcha hein
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Aarif I'm not here to impress you, so if you're dissapointed then that's your issue. No need to patronize me.Safiuddin,
I am really trying hard to imagine you as one of the brave Soldiers of Husain's army fighting against yazid.
But please believe me that everytime I try to do that you thourougly dissappoint me.
And who are you to question what I've accomplished? You yourself pretend to be sympathetic towards the reformist cause yet you find reason to criticize it often.
As for lecturing, I have no intention of taking direction from you. If it sounds like a lecture to you, it's probably because it pushes buttons for you, which sounds more like a personal issue that you should resolve. Your tactic is clear: as soon as you don't like something that is posted you try and put that person on the defensive.
If my posts don't meet with your learned approval don't read them.
Whatever. I'm not really concerned about you or your banter.
What does concern me is what TUS and Family have done in the name of Islam. The kothar has become more and more powerful, and not just in the last 35 years, primarily because gullible people have been pushed, forced, and beaten into submission. Every year some new crazy requirement is hatched, more money is extracted, and people continue to let it occur.
When TUS visited Detroit many years ago, the local Aamil refused the nikaah of a young girl because her family had not paid all of their "dues". This was in the masjid, in front of a full crowd, and the family was further humiliated and told to "go sell your gold to get the money". I watched in horror as no one came to this family's defense. And this was all happening 20 feet away from Burhanuddin.
If you really don'y understand why the kothar has become so powerful, you really don't have a grip on what is happening/
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Mr Arif the sensible one..
A very thought provoking question you asked. What should be the " Plan of action"...
Plan 1: Do nothing, just sit and watch. Because nothing can be done.
Plan 2: Get up, protest and try to make the community better.
Choice is yours.....
A very thought provoking question you asked. What should be the " Plan of action"...
Plan 1: Do nothing, just sit and watch. Because nothing can be done.
Plan 2: Get up, protest and try to make the community better.
Choice is yours.....
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africawalla
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:01 am
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Its easy to ask Arif what is the course of Action , what he is looking for is ideas on what to do , instead of slagging him off, please can you come out with ideas, as usual you guys are good with 'talk' but no action plans
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Aarif,
I've been reading your posts for quite some time and did not think it worth my while to respond to them. But then you went on and quoted Ghalib out of context. That was the last straw. And it is not Zannat (eeeek!!!), it's Jannat.
Ok, now to your questions, which are hardly new. You say you've read quite a bit about reforms on this site but I'm not sure whether you really understood what you read. I have answered these questions many times and they keep coming back. I know it is difficult to sift through this message board the topic one is looking for because every topic tends to veer off into different directions. But still with a little effort once can find enough stuff to not to ask the same questions over and over.
Anyways, you ask what have reformists achieved. For starters, this forum where you can come and speak your mind freely is the result of the reform movement. You can come to a reformist site and question and criticise reformists is a rare achievement as far as Bohras are concerned. So let's be a little honest and acknowledge this feat.
Regarding the reform movement and it goals and plans, you must first understand what it is all about. You seem to have certain perceptions about reformists and their mission which do not accord with reality.
The reform movement is exactly what it says it is : a movement. It is not a political party or a cabal or a militia that intends to go into every town and capture the jamaat and declare a reformist regime. In this sense the reform movement has no action plan.
Reformists have a set out their fundamental demands for local jamaat democracy, transparency, welfare of community, local ownership of community properties, and an end to the misuse of misaaq and razaa. The demands are social and administrative and have nothing to do with religion. The Dai and the Fatimis heritage and all the cute ceremony can and must stay. We've no quarrels with that.
Now the question is, how do we go about achieving these demands? When the reform movement started in Udaipur (please read its history) we wanted to settle things through dialogue and negotiations. But nothing came of it except arrogance and humiliation. The only option left was to set up a system that we desired, all on our own. In Udaipur and in many other smaller reformist jamaats across the world we try to live by the ideals that we demand of the Kothar. Of course, we are not perfect. But we keep trying. Howerver, this is not the end of the story, the purpose of the reform movement is to bring this sense of freedom and dignity to the rest of the community.
Towards this goal, the basic action plan is to create awareness among bohras, to raise their consciousness about the pitiless state of their community. This webiste is one way of doing it. We have conferences and other outreach programs from time to time. The examples of reformist jamaats are there for all to see and emulate. Of course, we could do better but without endless funds and a well-oiled machinery we can only do so much. The purpose of the movement is to show the way, offer concrete alternatives as to how things could become better.
Besides, the real success of the reform movement depends not what it does and on what its goals and plans are. It depends on people like you and me, the ordinary bohras who in the heart of their hearts know how rotten the whole system is but are afraid and do nothing about it. The Kothar has become powerful and blatant because we allowed them to.
Look at the recent revolt in Banswada. I’m sure many bohras could relate to their plight but how many came out and supported them and found common cause with it. None. Why? Because Bohras are afraid and isolated, alienated from their history and their true selves behaving like zombies in some godforsaken outback. Nothing seems to stir in their souls otherwise how can anyone explain their abject timidity in the face such priestly horrors.
Unless every Bohra in every town and every kasba learns to raise his head and stand up for his dignity and look the amil in the eye and question him, no matter what the reform movement does it cannot go anywhere. It can only show the way. It’s common bohras everywhere who will have to make it happen.
I've been reading your posts for quite some time and did not think it worth my while to respond to them. But then you went on and quoted Ghalib out of context. That was the last straw. And it is not Zannat (eeeek!!!), it's Jannat.
Ok, now to your questions, which are hardly new. You say you've read quite a bit about reforms on this site but I'm not sure whether you really understood what you read. I have answered these questions many times and they keep coming back. I know it is difficult to sift through this message board the topic one is looking for because every topic tends to veer off into different directions. But still with a little effort once can find enough stuff to not to ask the same questions over and over.
Anyways, you ask what have reformists achieved. For starters, this forum where you can come and speak your mind freely is the result of the reform movement. You can come to a reformist site and question and criticise reformists is a rare achievement as far as Bohras are concerned. So let's be a little honest and acknowledge this feat.
Regarding the reform movement and it goals and plans, you must first understand what it is all about. You seem to have certain perceptions about reformists and their mission which do not accord with reality.
The reform movement is exactly what it says it is : a movement. It is not a political party or a cabal or a militia that intends to go into every town and capture the jamaat and declare a reformist regime. In this sense the reform movement has no action plan.
Reformists have a set out their fundamental demands for local jamaat democracy, transparency, welfare of community, local ownership of community properties, and an end to the misuse of misaaq and razaa. The demands are social and administrative and have nothing to do with religion. The Dai and the Fatimis heritage and all the cute ceremony can and must stay. We've no quarrels with that.
Now the question is, how do we go about achieving these demands? When the reform movement started in Udaipur (please read its history) we wanted to settle things through dialogue and negotiations. But nothing came of it except arrogance and humiliation. The only option left was to set up a system that we desired, all on our own. In Udaipur and in many other smaller reformist jamaats across the world we try to live by the ideals that we demand of the Kothar. Of course, we are not perfect. But we keep trying. Howerver, this is not the end of the story, the purpose of the reform movement is to bring this sense of freedom and dignity to the rest of the community.
Towards this goal, the basic action plan is to create awareness among bohras, to raise their consciousness about the pitiless state of their community. This webiste is one way of doing it. We have conferences and other outreach programs from time to time. The examples of reformist jamaats are there for all to see and emulate. Of course, we could do better but without endless funds and a well-oiled machinery we can only do so much. The purpose of the movement is to show the way, offer concrete alternatives as to how things could become better.
Besides, the real success of the reform movement depends not what it does and on what its goals and plans are. It depends on people like you and me, the ordinary bohras who in the heart of their hearts know how rotten the whole system is but are afraid and do nothing about it. The Kothar has become powerful and blatant because we allowed them to.
Look at the recent revolt in Banswada. I’m sure many bohras could relate to their plight but how many came out and supported them and found common cause with it. None. Why? Because Bohras are afraid and isolated, alienated from their history and their true selves behaving like zombies in some godforsaken outback. Nothing seems to stir in their souls otherwise how can anyone explain their abject timidity in the face such priestly horrors.
Unless every Bohra in every town and every kasba learns to raise his head and stand up for his dignity and look the amil in the eye and question him, no matter what the reform movement does it cannot go anywhere. It can only show the way. It’s common bohras everywhere who will have to make it happen.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Safiuddin,
If you are not bothered about my dissapointment why did you bother to reply to my post. Anyways I do not want to waste my time on you.
Which plan do you follow? Remember one thing before you answer my question. Coming on this site with a fake ID and criticizing the current administration is still as good as following Plan 1. However, if you are following plan2 then please let me know how? I am seriously interested in knowing that.
Humsafar,
Thanks a lot for spending your oh so precious time in writing this great post.
However, like others you also started with a spell check eeks!!! instead of getting the point that I was trying to make.
Now I very well know that kothar is corrupt and blah blah blah. So explaining me was a waste of your precious time. I am also aware of Udaipur story. So again explaining that was a waste of your precious time.
In fact you have said nothing in this post that you have not said in the past on this forum. So except the spell check everything else was a waste of your precious time.
Now let me put forward my perspective. I have read all the bohra chronicles and other articles on this site. So I am well aware of the basic principles of reformists. I have almost read all the posts on this forum starting from 2000 in last one year.
Out of that not even 10% of them discuss anything remotely related to reforms. Most of the posts almost always end up discussing some corrupt amils or where Syedna is doing next muharram or where he is going for hunting trip etc.. Now a days people even discuss bohri recipes and Aati kyaa Khandala. New bollywood releases might be the next addition to this site.
Remember one thing.. Having a powerful media like this and misusing it defeats the basic purpose of its existence.
How many people out here come forward and discuss sensible reform ideas or share thier personal experiences that will motivate others. You yourself know the answer very well.
Are there many posts on this forum which a ordinary bohra can read and gain some motivation? The answer is a big NO. Most of the people come here to do timepass and release their mental frustration.
So please do not waste your precious time on telling me these stories hiding behind a bollywood movie title.
If you are not bothered about my dissapointment why did you bother to reply to my post. Anyways I do not want to waste my time on you.
Mr.Amerge,Plan 1: Do nothing, just sit and watch. Because nothing can be done.
Plan 2: Get up, protest and try to make the community better.
Which plan do you follow? Remember one thing before you answer my question. Coming on this site with a fake ID and criticizing the current administration is still as good as following Plan 1. However, if you are following plan2 then please let me know how? I am seriously interested in knowing that.
Humsafar,
Thanks a lot for spending your oh so precious time in writing this great post.
However, like others you also started with a spell check eeks!!! instead of getting the point that I was trying to make.
Now I very well know that kothar is corrupt and blah blah blah. So explaining me was a waste of your precious time. I am also aware of Udaipur story. So again explaining that was a waste of your precious time.
In fact you have said nothing in this post that you have not said in the past on this forum. So except the spell check everything else was a waste of your precious time.
Now let me put forward my perspective. I have read all the bohra chronicles and other articles on this site. So I am well aware of the basic principles of reformists. I have almost read all the posts on this forum starting from 2000 in last one year.
Out of that not even 10% of them discuss anything remotely related to reforms. Most of the posts almost always end up discussing some corrupt amils or where Syedna is doing next muharram or where he is going for hunting trip etc.. Now a days people even discuss bohri recipes and Aati kyaa Khandala. New bollywood releases might be the next addition to this site.
Remember one thing.. Having a powerful media like this and misusing it defeats the basic purpose of its existence.
How many people out here come forward and discuss sensible reform ideas or share thier personal experiences that will motivate others. You yourself know the answer very well.
Are there many posts on this forum which a ordinary bohra can read and gain some motivation? The answer is a big NO. Most of the people come here to do timepass and release their mental frustration.
So please do not waste your precious time on telling me these stories hiding behind a bollywood movie title.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Aarif,
Now you're moving the goal posts. Your focus has shifted from the criticism of the reform movement and it's alleged lack of action plan to this forum and how very few people discuss reform issues.
I agree, there's not enough discussion of reform issues than we would like to be. But this is a free forum, it has its own dynamic and swings of moods. Please don't be so hard on yourself, a little humour and some thought for food can't be all that bad.
Reform issues are not rocket science or some esoteric, difficult philosophy that needs to be discussed all the time. Every bohra feels the need for reforms in their bones, they do not need to read anything here or anywhere else for that matter to feel motivated. All they need to do is get off their duff and do something.
Now you're moving the goal posts. Your focus has shifted from the criticism of the reform movement and it's alleged lack of action plan to this forum and how very few people discuss reform issues.
I agree, there's not enough discussion of reform issues than we would like to be. But this is a free forum, it has its own dynamic and swings of moods. Please don't be so hard on yourself, a little humour and some thought for food can't be all that bad.
Reform issues are not rocket science or some esoteric, difficult philosophy that needs to be discussed all the time. Every bohra feels the need for reforms in their bones, they do not need to read anything here or anywhere else for that matter to feel motivated. All they need to do is get off their duff and do something.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
What goal post you are talking about???Now you're moving the goal posts.
This is the biggest understatement made on this site. I thought this site was always for fun and entertainment. Once in a while people realize each other of reforms when they get bored with all thisPlease don't be so hard on yourself, a little humour and some thought for food can't be all that bad.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Aarif, I hate to nitpick but this nit is asking to be picked:
You not only quoted Gahlib out of context and misspelled but, horror of horror, you also misquoted him. The actual sher is:
Hamko Maalum Hai Jannat Ki Haqeeqat Lekin
Dil Ke Khush Rakhne Ko Ghalib Ye Khayaal Achchhaa Hai
And your ruse about spell check is really lame. You cannot spell check Urdu words written in English. Besides, you cannot whine about hitting the wrong key, "j" and "z" are miles apart on the keyboard you can't use one for the other by mistake.
There. Now I feel so petty
You not only quoted Gahlib out of context and misspelled but, horror of horror, you also misquoted him. The actual sher is:
Hamko Maalum Hai Jannat Ki Haqeeqat Lekin
Dil Ke Khush Rakhne Ko Ghalib Ye Khayaal Achchhaa Hai
And your ruse about spell check is really lame. You cannot spell check Urdu words written in English. Besides, you cannot whine about hitting the wrong key, "j" and "z" are miles apart on the keyboard you can't use one for the other by mistake.
There. Now I feel so petty
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Aarif,
"Moving the goal posts" is an idiom, a phrase, a manner of speaking. But never mind.
What people do on this forum is not the sum total of the reform movement. And please stop behaving like a child who does not get enough attention. OK you started a few threads and did not get much response so you go about trashing everybody and the reform movement. Please be honest with yourself, if you really care about our community and want to see it change for the better then the right thing for you to do is help and support the ongoing effort and not stand on the sidelines criticise.
Please tell me which of your questions I've not answered.
"Moving the goal posts" is an idiom, a phrase, a manner of speaking. But never mind.
What people do on this forum is not the sum total of the reform movement. And please stop behaving like a child who does not get enough attention. OK you started a few threads and did not get much response so you go about trashing everybody and the reform movement. Please be honest with yourself, if you really care about our community and want to see it change for the better then the right thing for you to do is help and support the ongoing effort and not stand on the sidelines criticise.
Please tell me which of your questions I've not answered.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Dear Humsafar,And your ruse about spell check is really lame
I made a spelling mistake in writing "Jannat". Which you corrected.. That's generally done by a spell checker. Spell checker is a library. You can add new words to it. They can be urdu words written in English or even Gujarati words written in English. It does not matter. So spell check was really in context of spell check.
Qouting Ghalib was approximate. I was not addressing experienced Shayers in the Mushaira. I could have done a search in google before qouting it. However I was trying to make a point more than writing the sher correctly which I thought everyone understood. I am right about the same because you know which sher I was referring to. That's why you corrected it...
Now believe me I feel petty explaining this to you.
First of all you jumped in between the thread from nowhere and wrote that big post. So I would suggest you go and read my original post in which I mis-qouted Ghalib. Then read your post. compare the two and tell me which questions you have answered. You have vaguely tried to answer by using a spin called generalization.Please tell me which of your questions I've not answered.
Q: Do reformists have any concrete plan of achieving their goals?
Q: Since reformists believe that they are spreading more awareness today then they were doing before why is the Kothar getting more powerful everyday?
Q: Why is Daawat in a more woeful state then it was ever before?
Q: What is the use of this public forum??
Q: My personal experience and others might agree that the so called supporters of reform movement on this forum do nothing but abuse the community. They are really creating a bad image of the overall community criticizing the ordinary bohras in every possible way. What image does this create about the reformists and the reform movement in the eyes of bohras who want to participate in it?
Q: To show interest in reform movement or participate on this forum is it mandatory to use fowl language and criticize the community in every possible way?
Q: If the reformists believe that they are still part of the community why do they lash out at anybody who tries to bring out the good points of the community on this forum?
I have asked these questions in various posts. So don't be surprised with this big list. You tried answering the first question by passing the buck on to general public. Very cleverly you have made statements like unless everyone contributes and does this and that nothing will happen. Your answers are very subjective and can be easily twisted in any direction.
IF YOU WOULD HAVE EVEN ANSWERED ONE QUESTION PROPERLY I WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU THE CREDIT FOR THE SAME.
So again please lets stop this ping pong game.
You can reply whatever you like. But if that does not answer any of my questions I will not reply back.
Thanks for your precious time..
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
:Aarif Quote:
"To show interest in reform movement or participate on this forum is it mandatory to use fowl language and criticize the community in every possible way?"
B]AGAIN THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE NOT FOWL AND IT IS KOTHRIS WHO USE THAT LANGUAGE MORE THAN ANYONE, CHECK POSTS BY PIG/GULP/TB AND MANY MORE[/B]
"To show interest in reform movement or participate on this forum is it mandatory to use fowl language and criticize the community in every possible way?"
B]AGAIN THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE NOT FOWL AND IT IS KOTHRIS WHO USE THAT LANGUAGE MORE THAN ANYONE, CHECK POSTS BY PIG/GULP/TB AND MANY MORE[/B]
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
"Q: Why is Daawat in a more woeful state then it was ever before?"
Let Africawalla/Pig/Gulp/TB answer that question
Because of this reform movement was formed
Let Africawalla/Pig/Gulp/TB answer that question
Because of this reform movement was formed
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Q: Since reformists believe that they are spreading more awareness today then they were doing before why is the Kothar getting more powerful everyday
if you give 2 crore to Narendra Modi and 250,000 dollars to Bush and Shawl to Bal Thackrey, you can also be more powerful
if you give 2 crore to Narendra Modi and 250,000 dollars to Bush and Shawl to Bal Thackrey, you can also be more powerful
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
: What is the use of this public forum??
So people like Pig/Gulp/TB/Africawalla can express themselves freely without getting any RAZA from anyone
So people like Pig/Gulp/TB/Africawalla can express themselves freely without getting any RAZA from anyone
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Q: My personal experience and others might agree that the so called supporters of reform movement on this forum do nothing but abuse the community. They are really creating a bad image of the overall community criticizing the ordinary bohras in every possible way. What image does this create about the reformists and the reform movement in the eyes of bohras who want to participate in it
You are right but remember it is Kotharis who started abusing the community and Reformist learned those bad habits from them so it will take time to forget old habits
You are right but remember it is Kotharis who started abusing the community and Reformist learned those bad habits from them so it will take time to forget old habits
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Q: If the reformists believe that they are still part of the community why do they lash out at anybody who tries to bring out the good points of the community on this forum?
Can you please collate those good points and yes if they are good , we shouldnot lash out against them
Can you please collate those good points and yes if they are good , we shouldnot lash out against them
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
OB... Please read below..B]AGAIN THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE NOT FOWL AND IT IS KOTHRIS WHO USE THAT LANGUAGE MORE THAN ANYONE, CHECK POSTS BY PIG/GULP/TB AND MANY MORE[/B]
By AZ. Read http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=002194there is a rather crude saying back in mumbai, "jab ga^^^ lagi phatne, to khairat lagi batne".
By Like_mindedThis bohra community is gone to dogs... they want a living bhagwan..and they've got one!!! they wouldnt mind if their bhagwan screws the day light outta them... all in the name of religion and fairy tales.. miracles and fuc%%%%g crap...
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=002240
And these are from the most recent posts. If I will traverse back I promise you I will find lots of them...
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
OB,
For your other posts read my reply to Humsafar. It applies to you as well.
For your other posts read my reply to Humsafar. It applies to you as well.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B]AGAIN THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE NOT FOWL AND IT IS KOTHRIS WHO USE THAT LANGUAGE MORE THAN ANYONE, CHECK POSTS BY PIG/GULP/TB AND MANY MORE[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OB... Please read below..
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is a rather crude saying back in mumbai, "jab ga^^^ lagi phatne, to khairat lagi batne".
so here you go again, lecturing everyone about foul language and right away you come back with one
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B]AGAIN THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE NOT FOWL AND IT IS KOTHRIS WHO USE THAT LANGUAGE MORE THAN ANYONE, CHECK POSTS BY PIG/GULP/TB AND MANY MORE[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OB... Please read below..
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is a rather crude saying back in mumbai, "jab ga^^^ lagi phatne, to khairat lagi batne".
so here you go again, lecturing everyone about foul language and right away you come back with one
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
OB this was written by AZ(Al-Zulfikar). Please read my post correctly. Do not act like 5 year old child with a lolypop in his mouth.quote:
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there is a rather crude saying back in mumbai, "jab ga^^^ lagi phatne, to khairat lagi batne".
so here you go again, lecturing everyone about foul language and right away you come back with one
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Here is the URL for the same:
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=002194
You will find AZ quoting this. By blaming at least you have admitted that so called reformists do use foul language.
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=002194
You will find AZ quoting this. By blaming at least you have admitted that so called reformists do use foul language.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Q: Do reformists have any concrete plan of achieving their goals?
Reformists have achieved their goals (of jamaat democracy, transparency etc.) within the framework of the jamaats over which they have control. There are working reforimist jamaats in Udaipur, Hederabad, Malegaon, England, Canada etc. close to what we would like them to be. We have petitioned the Kothar and continue to do so through every conference and other platforms urging them to bring about these changes to the rest of the community but to no avail. We’ve challenged them in court over ex-communication and ownership of mosques etc. As I said before we can only do so much. If people – the actual victims – start supporting us we could do more. We’ve taken the initiative and shown the way, beyond that we can’t do much short of forcing people. Such changes – revolutions – come with and through people. They cannot be imposed from outside.
Q: Since reformists believe that they are spreading more awareness today then they were doing before why is the Kothar getting more powerful everyday?
This is like asking why killing and unrest in the world increasing even as knowledge and information is spreading. Awareness is important, and bohras are aware of their plight but so long as they do nothing the Kothar will keep spooking and manipulating them. They arrogate all religious authority and have built political clout and their coffers are full. If Bohras had a better understanding of their religion and history and the guts to challenge amils they Kothar would not remain powerful for long.
Q: Why is Daawat in a more woeful state then it was ever before?
For reasons stated in the answer above.
Q: What is the use of this public forum??
It’s for the Admin to answer this question, but obviously the purpose is to provide a platform for Bohras such as yourself and others to freely speak their mind, exchange ideas and discuss issues pertaining bohras, isalm and current affairs.
Q: My personal experience and others might agree that the so called supporters of reform movement on this forum do nothing but abuse the community. They are really creating a bad image of the overall community criticizing the ordinary bohras in every possible way. What image does this create about the reformists and the reform movement in the eyes of bohras who want to participate in it?
I agree with you. But please do not generalise. Not every reformist is like that. That said, reformists participating on this forum have an extra responsibility to behave decently. The eyes of the rest of the bohra world are on us, and what we write and how we conduct ourselves reflects on the reform movement. We’ve to be mindful of the perceptions we create in the public mind. However, please do not equate this forum with the rest of the reform movement. This forum is a virtually (in every sense of the word) small part of it.
Q: To show interest in reform movement or participate on this forum is it mandatory to use fowl language and criticize the community in every possible way?
No. There are all kinds that come this forum with their own peeves and personalities. Some of them may reasons to use foul language and perhaps they find it easy to let loose given the anonymity and freedom this forum offers. Some people learn over time and some don’t. I would put foul language to immaturity, and there are examples of it both sides.
Q: If the reformists believe that they are still part of the community why do they lash out at anybody who tries to bring out the good points of the community on this forum?
Again, its up to the individual and please don’t generalise. Have you seen Insaf bhai lashing out at anyone? And even those who lash out and use foul language would really behave far more decently if you met them face to face. It’s this medium which brings out the worst in them.
Hope I’ve answered questions to your satisfaction. If not let me know if you need further clarifications or have more questions.
Reformists have achieved their goals (of jamaat democracy, transparency etc.) within the framework of the jamaats over which they have control. There are working reforimist jamaats in Udaipur, Hederabad, Malegaon, England, Canada etc. close to what we would like them to be. We have petitioned the Kothar and continue to do so through every conference and other platforms urging them to bring about these changes to the rest of the community but to no avail. We’ve challenged them in court over ex-communication and ownership of mosques etc. As I said before we can only do so much. If people – the actual victims – start supporting us we could do more. We’ve taken the initiative and shown the way, beyond that we can’t do much short of forcing people. Such changes – revolutions – come with and through people. They cannot be imposed from outside.
Q: Since reformists believe that they are spreading more awareness today then they were doing before why is the Kothar getting more powerful everyday?
This is like asking why killing and unrest in the world increasing even as knowledge and information is spreading. Awareness is important, and bohras are aware of their plight but so long as they do nothing the Kothar will keep spooking and manipulating them. They arrogate all religious authority and have built political clout and their coffers are full. If Bohras had a better understanding of their religion and history and the guts to challenge amils they Kothar would not remain powerful for long.
Q: Why is Daawat in a more woeful state then it was ever before?
For reasons stated in the answer above.
Q: What is the use of this public forum??
It’s for the Admin to answer this question, but obviously the purpose is to provide a platform for Bohras such as yourself and others to freely speak their mind, exchange ideas and discuss issues pertaining bohras, isalm and current affairs.
Q: My personal experience and others might agree that the so called supporters of reform movement on this forum do nothing but abuse the community. They are really creating a bad image of the overall community criticizing the ordinary bohras in every possible way. What image does this create about the reformists and the reform movement in the eyes of bohras who want to participate in it?
I agree with you. But please do not generalise. Not every reformist is like that. That said, reformists participating on this forum have an extra responsibility to behave decently. The eyes of the rest of the bohra world are on us, and what we write and how we conduct ourselves reflects on the reform movement. We’ve to be mindful of the perceptions we create in the public mind. However, please do not equate this forum with the rest of the reform movement. This forum is a virtually (in every sense of the word) small part of it.
Q: To show interest in reform movement or participate on this forum is it mandatory to use fowl language and criticize the community in every possible way?
No. There are all kinds that come this forum with their own peeves and personalities. Some of them may reasons to use foul language and perhaps they find it easy to let loose given the anonymity and freedom this forum offers. Some people learn over time and some don’t. I would put foul language to immaturity, and there are examples of it both sides.
Q: If the reformists believe that they are still part of the community why do they lash out at anybody who tries to bring out the good points of the community on this forum?
Again, its up to the individual and please don’t generalise. Have you seen Insaf bhai lashing out at anyone? And even those who lash out and use foul language would really behave far more decently if you met them face to face. It’s this medium which brings out the worst in them.
Hope I’ve answered questions to your satisfaction. If not let me know if you need further clarifications or have more questions.
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Humsafar,
This was a good post and I give you the credit for it. At last I have seen someone talking logically about reform movement ever since I started asking questions.
However, saying that it has answered each and every question that I had in mind or hind sight might be difficult. The best approach would be to come up with more sub-questions related to these broad categories as and when they come to mind. That would help in unearthing more facts through logical and civil discussions.
I feel that there should be more threads on these kind of topics. However, that's my personal opinion.
Thanks for your time. (This time I mean it )
This was a good post and I give you the credit for it. At last I have seen someone talking logically about reform movement ever since I started asking questions.
However, saying that it has answered each and every question that I had in mind or hind sight might be difficult. The best approach would be to come up with more sub-questions related to these broad categories as and when they come to mind. That would help in unearthing more facts through logical and civil discussions.
I feel that there should be more threads on these kind of topics. However, that's my personal opinion.
Thanks for your time. (This time I mean it
)Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
Given the reformist's struggle for many years now in good faith to declare and defeat injustices of kotharies high-handedness, has anyone ever witnessed one single change in the current administration for the good of all from the reformist perspectives?
It seems to me that they have become rather stronger, harsher and gaining control in stepping up their megalomaniac causes and further weakening reformism, at least for the time being. Suffice it to mention on the contrary, I also vision its gradual downfall in counter effects by the more modern, educated and enlightened generation on the long haul. What say you?
It seems to me that they have become rather stronger, harsher and gaining control in stepping up their megalomaniac causes and further weakening reformism, at least for the time being. Suffice it to mention on the contrary, I also vision its gradual downfall in counter effects by the more modern, educated and enlightened generation on the long haul. What say you?
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mohammed_truthseeker
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am
Re: GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO
I have read from this forum a lot about what the reformist's stand for. But even from a high level or from the low level I do not see a change anywhere. The faith of the people is stronger than ever. They believe in the Dai more than ever.
And this, I am not talking about only elderly people wit a narrow outlook. But people from all strata of the society.
And this, I am not talking about only elderly people wit a narrow outlook. But people from all strata of the society.