Yesterday by a strange series of circumstances I ended up attending a majlis of mostly Pakistani sunnis. You normally know what to expect from these gatherings: an exaggerated sense of piety and holier-than-thou attitudes of pretenders. Which is all good as far as it goes. The speakers (of mullah variety but all of south-Asian origin) were from three different locations: Pakistan, USA and Canada. Listening to them I was struck by the tenor and focus of their talks. It seems that the focus of mainstream Islam (and shias are no different, I've listened to shia mullahs too) is shifting from the "message" to the "messenger". In other words I see a definite trend towards a cult developing around the person of Prophet Mohammed.
In their talks there was mandatory, if passing, reference to "amaals" and how the Quran contains eternal knowledge etc., but the main emphasis was on glorification and deification of the Prophet. One speaker said (brief snippets): that Allah created man and the Universe for no other reason but to make way for Prophet Mohammed to be born and bring His message; that even before the universe existed the "kalma" was inscribed on every leaf of every tree in heaven; that Allah did not forgive Adam until he (Adam) invoked Prophet Mohammed's name; that Prophet Mohammed is Allah's most beloved prophet; that the Quran mentions every prophet by name but not Prophet Mohammed, because he is special; that following in Prophet Mohammed footsteps (and this is a cliché) will lead one to jahanna. And of course all this was delivered in a booming, commanding voice intended to scare the daylights out of the congregation.
The other speaker had this to say: that Prophet Mohammed is omnipresent - present everywhere all at once - and quotes ayahs (anajmi should be able to dig these out) which he rattled off in Arabic and translated thus (roughly): that what will you do when a witness will be called (on the day of judgement) from every community, and even so Prophet Mohammed will bear witness for all communities for all times. Meaning, Prophet Mohammed has been and will be present in all past and future eons and therefore will be able to bear witness for all of them. Now this may or may not be the correct interpretation (Porus ??) but the burden of his talk was that Prophet Mohammed is superior to all prophets and to all things created.
Then there were naats which once again focused on the Prophet and exclusively on Madina (no mention of Makkah).
Now all Muslims know that Prophet Mohammed is central to Islam in that he is the messenger of Allah. It is also true that Islamic theology and history allows a certain overlap of the message and messenger. But anyone who has any knowledge of Islam knows that the messenger is not the message. (Or was McLuhan right when he delcared that "the medium is the message"?) The personality and person of the Prophet seems to be becoming more important than Islam itself. It is a good thing that the Prophet forbade his graven image for he had the foresight to know that people will start worshipping him. Alas, that was not to be. Banning images/idols was not enough. Muslims have found other means to worship him. The question is, why? Why do people start worshipping personalities? Is it something in our genes or is human culture attuned to that kind of behaviour? Or is it that when ideas (message) becomes weak and irrelevant humans "naturally" move their spotlight on the person (messenger)? This has clearly happened with the Bohras. Is this what's happening to rest of the Muslims too? Something to think about.
Is this a cult or what?
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Average Bohra
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Re: Is this a cult or what?
Interesting observation Humsafar. I am of the opinion that people generally worship personalities as opposed to the message because it is easier to worship the messenger than believing in, conforming to, or understanding the message. They are generally too weak (or scared) to admit even to themselves that the message may no longer be relevant; just in case the concept of Hell is true.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
I agree with Average Bohra that peolple find it easier to worship the messenger than to follow the message as more than most of the common people, though sometimes educated but are just professionals, are ignorant of the truth and find it difficult to dig into it and so they just follow the messenger.
There are many doctors, engineers and other high professionals in modern times fall victim of the messenger. No dearth in Bohra community also.
There are many doctors, engineers and other high professionals in modern times fall victim of the messenger. No dearth in Bohra community also.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
Humsafar,
It is great that you learned all this from attending one majlis and a handful of speakers. I wish I had been that lucky.
Besides, I am sure the speakers had a good grasp of taawil.
It is great that you learned all this from attending one majlis and a handful of speakers. I wish I had been that lucky.
Besides, I am sure the speakers had a good grasp of taawil.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
002.143
YUSUFALI: Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.
SHAKIR: And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
I am sure porus will be able to give us his interpretation.
Since the prophet Muhammed is not going to be present at all times (as against what you heard), the Muslim Ummah (which is present) is going to be the witness against people like you, and then the prophet Muhammed will be a witness against the Muslim Ummah - were they on the path that he taught?
By the way, I have no special skills in finding the relevant ayahs. I use a pretty easy method, it is called "search" and I use it on this web site http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
Apparently, one doesn't need to be a scientist to figure this out.
YUSUFALI: Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.
SHAKIR: And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
I am sure porus will be able to give us his interpretation.
Since the prophet Muhammed is not going to be present at all times (as against what you heard), the Muslim Ummah (which is present) is going to be the witness against people like you, and then the prophet Muhammed will be a witness against the Muslim Ummah - were they on the path that he taught?
By the way, I have no special skills in finding the relevant ayahs. I use a pretty easy method, it is called "search" and I use it on this web site http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
Apparently, one doesn't need to be a scientist to figure this out.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
Here are 4 ayahs where the prophet is mentioned by the name Muhammad. The last ayah is where he is mentioned by his other name - Ahmad, as a prophecy. Ahmad means one who is praised and Muhammad means one who praises. The prophet praised Allah and he is praised by the muslim ummah.
003.144
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.
SHAKIR: And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.
033.040
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
047.002
YUSUFALI: But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
PICKTHAL: And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed unto Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He riddeth them of their ill-deeds and improveth their state.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition.
048.029
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.
061.006
YUSUFALI: And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
PICKTHAL: And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
SHAKIR: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.
003.144
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.
SHAKIR: And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.
033.040
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
047.002
YUSUFALI: But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
PICKTHAL: And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed unto Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He riddeth them of their ill-deeds and improveth their state.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition.
048.029
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.
061.006
YUSUFALI: And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
PICKTHAL: And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
SHAKIR: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
Ofcourse in a translation Muhammad is mentioned in brackets almost everywhere where Allah refers to him as a messenger. So you might actually want to look up those ayahs in the Arabic quran to make sure that Muhammad and Ahmad are mentioned.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
Najmi,
Ahmed means one who praises and Mohammed means one who has been praised.
Ahmed means one who praises and Mohammed means one who has been praised.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
I actually was a bit confused about that, but then according to Shakir's translation of this ayah
061.006
YUSUFALI: And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
PICKTHAL: And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
SHAKIR: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.
Then according to this web site http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Ahmed
it is "highly praised or one who constantly thanks God" which kind of includes both the meanings.
061.006
YUSUFALI: And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
PICKTHAL: And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
SHAKIR: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.
Then according to this web site http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Ahmed
it is "highly praised or one who constantly thanks God" which kind of includes both the meanings.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
I think we've just given porus some ammo.
Re: Is this a cult or what?
There is not much different between these two names. Ahmed was a heavenly name but when the Prophet was born, he was named Muhammad.Originally posted by humane:
Najmi,
Ahmed means one who praises and Mohammed means one who has been praised.