Statement condemning beheading of girls

[Asghar Ali Engineer]

Statement condemning beheading of girls in Rajouri District - Kashmir

It is utterly shocking that some terrorist from across the boarder allegedly belonging to Lashkare-Jabbar beheaded three young girls just because they were not wearing Islamically prescribed dress. It should be made clear that Quran does not prescribe covering of face at all. It only recommends wearing a dignified dress which protect women being object of sexual lust. The dress is, more often than not, culturally determined. The Muslim women in the sub -continent wear what has been the cultural norm of this subcontinent. No one can prescribe any particular dress and enforce it at the cost of one's life. The Quran does not even say that any form dress is obligatory to wear. The Quranic verses about display of adornment are more of recommendatory nature. They do not prescribed any punishment in this regard.

The beheading of Muslim girls in Kashmir is more an act of political desperado who cannot accept the on going peace process in Kashmir Valley. The People of Kashmir no longer support mindless violence being perpetrated by these terrorists. This is nothing but an act of desperation on their part. The Quran says that killing of one person amounts to killing of entire humanity.

No words are strong enough to condemn this act of barbarism. Terrorist violence ultimately leads to such aberrations. All right thinking people should opposite it tooth and nail.

[porus]

It is very important to understand that this atrocious behavior is the logical conclusion of "religious" upbringing. Dogmas which have even the slightest trace of opposition to an out-group (and this includes Bohras) will lead to this type of behavior by extremists. Practice of "evil" is not confined to the morally decrepit who also take their revenge on innocent humanity and gloat on the pleasures of their misdeeds. History is full of atrocities commited in the name of religion and more people have been killed for religious reasons than any other.

These types of people will always be with us. One solution is to weaken "religions" by insisting that our children adopt a creed of "internal or personal secularization". This does not call for others or societies to change but teaches personal change at the level of the individual.

[khuzema]

What about sure Nisa, where Allah describes how women should wear their cloths. What do u guys have to say about the scarf? Girl who don't where scarf, can she justify herself with quran? Is it obligatory to wear scarf or is it just the moderate dress which is needed to be weared?

[porus]

No matter what Quran prescribes, those who not follow its prescriptions are best left for Allah to pass his judgement on them.

Problem with the religious types is that they want to become Allah themselves and start meting out punishments which is Allah's privilege only. These religious types are the real mushriks because they associate themselves with Allah.

What do these so-called Muslims, really mushriks, propose to do with all those millions who do not pray five times a day or not keep a fast of Ramadaan or pay zakaat. Behead them?

Idiots!!

Allah has given me free will to follow Quraan or not. That is my sole responsibility and I am answerable only to him. Not to any religious mushrik!!

[khuzema]

I never said some body is wrong, I agree with porus that who are we to judge. What i was trying to understand here is what Allah says in the quran. I was not making any judgment. Can some body tell me, what is the MOST liberal interpretation of those ayats of Sure Nesa which claims describes women should dress?

[anajmi]

porus,

Please do not blame the religion for the action of these few a--holes. Nowhere does the religion say that girls should be beheaded if they do not dress right.

I would like to repeat the statment made by Br. Asghar Ali Engineer "The beheading of Muslim girls in Kashmir is more an act of political desperado who cannot accept the on going peace process in Kashmir Valley. The People of Kashmir no longer support mindless violence being perpetrated by these terrorists. This is nothing but an act of desperation on their part. The Quran says that killing of one person amounts to killing of entire humanity."

What is happening has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with politics.

[anajmi]

And I would like to say that these fucks who are beheading these innocent girls should be tortured for the rest of their lives. They should not be beheaded as that would be too easy for them.

[Muslim First]

.

I strongly support statement of Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer.

there is no room in Islam for forcing Islam on those who do not want to believe in it ot to force anybody to practice it.

Please also note that doispute in Kasmir has many players and one should be cautious in blaming any group unless there is hard evidence.

Wasalaam

.

[barwani]

Br. Muslim First,

there is no room in Islam for forcing Islam on those who do not want to believe in it ot to force anybody to practice it.

It is also very questionable if the things that these people were trying to enforce can even be considered Islam.

Br. Anajmi

Please do not blame the religion for the action of these few a--holes. Nowhere does the religion say that girls should be beheaded if they do not dress right.

It definitely isn’t religion’s fault, because this sort of action can be seen by the propagators of other doctrines such as capitalism, communism and the now chic dogma of “freedom.” (because you know we have to get rid of “those who hate freedom”)

sh

[anajmi]

br barwani.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. What others see is what they want to see whether it is there or not. Like the weapons of mass destruction that america can see but none of the inspectors can.

[GodBless]

Again, a deafening silence from the so-called leaders of the Islamic world.

Such inhuman acts will continue until these murderers are tried in public and brought to justice. If justice is consistently applied to such acts, only then will the Islamic mindset change, maybe even over a generation.

Perhaps some resources from the stoning of women to death for adultery or victims of rape (without witness' ) can be re-allocated to the men who murder women.....

[barwani]

Br. Anajmi,

I was trying to say exactly what you just said.

sh

[Muddai]

Like the weapons of mass destruction that america can see but none of the inspectors can.

Let's not confuse the anti-war stance, with a fact. I am against the US &/or allies attacking Iraq, but there is not a doubt in my mind that the guy still has WMD and will use it against his people, but not stupid enough to use it against the US. It is ludicrous to expect 100 UN inspectors to find it though....

[anajmi]

Well, since it is easy for you to believe the US intelligence, they probably used a lot more than a 100 people to get the proof huh!! Maybe some satellite pictures? But then they are protecting their sources, the satellites?

[anajmi]

I am sorry for beginning a topic which does not belong in this thread.

[Sajid Zafar]

-----------------------------------------------
Statement condemning beheading of girls in Rajouri District - Kashmir

It is utterly shocking that some terrorist from across the boarder .....
----------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Engineer:

Your such statement on this forum seems highly politicized.

Can you please explain that on what grounds you established the fact that terrorist came from across the boarder?

Please note that majority of Muslims condemns all such kind of cowardly acts against innocent civilian population and people of Pakistan are no exception to it.

I wonder that you ever got a chance to look into the atrocities committed by Indian forces in Kashmir!!!

Have you ever said or raised such issues on any national or international form?

[Asghar Ali Engineer]

Dear Sajid Zafar,
Thanks for your comments on my statement on beheading innocent girls for not wearing hijab. I am glad you condemn it too as all right thinking people should. But in what sense my statement is politicised, it is not clear to me.

Every day perople belonging to Lashkar-eTaiyyiba and other jihadi organisations kill people ruthlessly. And all in the name of Islam. We must defend fair name of Islam.

What makes you assume that I do not condemn atrocities by the Indian armed forces against Kashmiris? I have condemned it several times. If you have not read them it does not mean I have not condemned it.

I thank you again for your comments and wish you a happy New Year.

Asghar Ali Engineer

[GodBless]

Sajid,

on what grounds you established the fact that terrorist came from across the boarder?

I am trying to understand your position on this matter. Do you have a problem with this inhuman act, or the fact that Pakistanis may have been involved ?

majority of Muslims condemns all such kind of cowardly acts against innocent civilian population and people of Pakistan are no exception to it.

I hope that to be true. Has Pakistan condemed it ? Please let me know.

Until the US $ started rolling in, didn't Pakistan support the Taliban ?

look into the atrocities committed by Indian forces in Kashmir!!!

Does that somehow justify beheading girls that you feel were dressed in un-Islamic attire by "friendly forces"?

Exactly what does this have to do with the politics of Kashmir ?

[Sajid Zafar]

AoA WB,

Dr. Asghar:

Thanks for your response and new years greeting. We also extend new years greeting to your good self and family.

Reason to mention that your statement was politicized: You mentioned that terrorist came from across the boarder. Without fair grounds, how one can conclude that terrorist came from across the boarder. It is very unfortunate that after 55 years of independence, this issue has not been settled according to wishes of the people living in region. It is mainly due to the attitude of those, which holds power in both countries. The example of Chec and Slovak republics is in front of us. Why we can’t live and coexist together?

It was a question. I was not aware of the fact that you have raised on different forums. Thanks for informing us.

Godbless:

My concern is one should not involve other country without having concrete proofs. It does no good but harms those who are against these atrocities and wants to build bridges between two countries.

No one has any justification to do such kind of barbaric acts. After all who has given them such kind of authorities?

As I have expressed that when such assumptions are made without having any rational grounds, it seems that going to serve someone’s wasted interest.

[GodBless]

Sajid,

I agree, but don't you think you are trivializing this tragedy by focusing on the political and not the religious aspect ?

When I heard of this, which country these Muslims came from was of little significance to me.

[Sajid Zafar]

Godbless:

Thanks, I agree with you. It was a kind of emotional rhetoric. No mater from where these killer came, it is a barbaric act and the perpetrator should be brought to justice without delay.

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Somebody forwarded me a beautiful poem---- Why so Much Hatred
towards Women?

Badruddin R. Gowani

why do you hate women so much?

what is your logic?
what is your reasoning?
what is your thinking?

is their any connection between you and women?
is their any relation between you and women?
is their any specie-link between you and women?

where did you come from?
who gave you birth?
were no women involved?

did you drop from sky?
are you sons of Allah?

Allah does not beget anyone
the Muslim scripture says

Allah is invoked

cover up
order issued
ignored
acid thrown
faces disfigured

wear burqa
unheeded
beheaded
murdered

raped
no witness
justice served
zina or adultery
stoned to death

and on and on and on
goes the violence

devoid of aesthetic sense
devoid of beauty sense
devoid of humane sense

dancing is evil
burqa is virtue
rape is zina
cinema is Satan
other screwed up beliefs
more important than life
unbelievable
nevertheless, true

when will you understand?
life is precious than any belief
girls/women are precious than any religion

from your brains, sweep the trash
mop your brains with reasoning

it is women who carry you in the womb
it is women who bear the labor
it is women who create you
it is women who nurse you
it is women who nourishes you
it is women who satisfy you
and
it is women who conceive your fanatic bothers

not Allah

if all women are killed

how would you get future fanatics?
how would blow up video stores?
how would you dynamite Bamiyan Statues?
how would you run madrasas?
how would you harass non-fanatic Muslims?
how would you terrorize secularists?
how would you intimidate minorities?
how would you issue fatwas?

...

think long term
think like that Global Fanatic
who, to control world oil
plans regime change
plans break-up of nations
plans violence
thinks 20, 50, 100 years ahead

Allah is an idea
woman is a reality
Allah is sperm-less
woman is fertile
Allah cannot beget
woman gives birth
Allah is a conceptual being
woman is a living being

[kaziin]

It is very unfortunate that people with political propagandas and complete disregard for human life have control. We all sound very lame trying to discuss or condemn these dastardly acts of atrocity without the ability to affect any change. People who got killed were small innocent victims. The act can be condemned, but what is to happen after that. We all are unable to bring about change. I see the patriotic fervour run high among people. It really does not matter whether it is India or Pakistan. How can we bring about change. How long will we be bound to these Political Leaderships that care only about themselves. I honestly do not think that India or Pakistan deserve democracy or for that matter freedom. We need to grow up and respect human life. Terrorism has no place in Islam. Till you do not learn to respect human life, quit calling yourself Muslims. India is no more innocent than Pakistan is. For all we know we have all these Political Leaders feeding us garbage while they interact and make merry. SO LETS STOP TALKING AND START ACTING. ANYBODY GOT A PLAN !!

[barwani]

ANYBODY GOT A PLAN !!

Young people have to get involved.

They have to take their First world educations and go back to India or Pakistan and immerse themselves in the development and politics over there. That’s the only way things are going to change. And no one can organize or plan this – its got to happen on an individual to individual basis. I’m slowly realizing that the bigger the plan is or the more organized it is – the chances of it failing also increase proportionately. So the best thing would be to keep the plan simple, and only rely on yourself in carrying it out.

But I also think that talking about the issues is very important, because talking gets people to continually re-evaluate their own views and allows them to see issues from various different perspectives – making their own goals and stances more solid.

….

There are so many brilliant young people in the Indian/Pakistani Diaspora – but it stinks that most of us get sucked into the 9-5 rat race … trying to buy fancy cars, get promotions, and build personal wealth – that we forget that we have the ability to change the world if we wanted to.

sh

[Muddai]

9-5 rat race {work ethic} … trying to buy fancy cars {luxury} , get promotions {title}, and build personal wealth {money / power}– that we forget that we have the ability to change the world if we wanted to.

The reality is that you are a lot more effective and it is a lot easier to change the world when you have all of the above.....

[barwani]

The reality is that you are a lot more effective and it is a lot easier to change the world when you have all of the above.....

Now that’s total crap … I don’t see the indo-yuppies getting their hands dirty to go and make a difference – they might donate to a charity or two – but for the most part, they won’t make the world a better place because they are so caught up in their own desires for material gain, and to tell you the truth .. I don’t think most of them care.

Having some money is good and being able to support your family is a necessity, but having a big house and Mercedes Benz doesn’t make you more effective – it’ll actually slow you down because you’ll have a lot more crap to maintain.

Plus, you don’t need the rat race to give you a work ethic, you don’t need a title or money or power to make people respect you (Education on the other hand I think is very important.) Most of the people that are in the rat race end up staying there… that’s why its called a rat race.

All you need is a solid foundation of knowledge, a work ethic, and a belief that you can make a difference.

sh

[Muddai]

You misunderstood my point.

I don’t see the indo-yuppies getting their hands dirty to go and make a difference

I said it is easier assuming that one wants to affect change. The rest of us post messages on discussion boards.

[khuzema]

Good Poem, but who cares, Male are more powerful and they will do what ever they want. In East Media is controlled by males who are anti-women. Though west respect women, but still they don't give equal rights to women. Middle Eastern countries are the worst countries in the world. Prophet Muhammad was a big time feminist of his period. He fought for the right of women. He gave lots of rights to the women but as soon as people started treated women as slave.

Amazing thing:
Women are not allowed to work as per Sunnah. Prophet Muhammad’s wife Bibi Khatija was well known Business personality. Prophet Muhammad always appreciated her work. Prophet Muhammad worked under her. Bibi Aysha was a leader, under whom many males use to work. Who invented Sunnah, since as per the above, Sunnah and life of Prophet Muhammad have no relation at all?

[khuzema]

After Some corrections: -

Good Poem, but who cares, Male are more powerful and they will do what ever they want. In East Media is controlled by males who are anti-women. Though west respect women, but still they don't give equal rights to women. Middle Eastern countries are the worst countries in the world. Prophet Muhammad was a big time feminist of his period. He fought for the right of women. He gave lots of rights to the women but as soon as he died people again started treated women as slave.

Amazing thing:
Women are not allowed to work as per Sunnah. Prophet Muhammad’s wife Bibi Khatija was well known Business personality. Prophet Muhammad always appreciated her work. Prophet Muhammad worked under her. Bibi Aysha was a leader, under whom many males use to work. Who invented Sunnah, since as per the above, Sunnah and life of Prophet Muhammad have no relation at all?