Can names change the substance of a reality. The evolution from a conventional dawoodi Bohra to a progressive now appears to be an exercise in futility. Most of the better thinking bohras are disillusioned by the hypocracy and exploitation that is taking place under the umbrella of faith.
The way the sacred name and blood of Husain A.S, is sold to amass wealth, achieve prominanace and profess power is what hurts most. Religious doctrines of the Imams are flounted every now and then. The Seerat of the Imam of Imam's Ali A.S. is what one wanted to witness in the lifestyles of our syedna and his family members. Instead the pomp and show with which they are wasting the hard earned money of mumins gives visuals of the Mughal Kings. Information is withheld, religious education is tailored to suit their own needs, people are barred to read the translation of Quran. The History of Fatimids is either not taught or presented twisted and forged.
The fact is that to preserve the social and cultural harmony, the absence of a decent alternate, a dawoodi bohra is silently allowing his exploitation. The people with better understanding and self-respect find the progressive dawoodi bohra forum as an alternate at-least to vent their feelings. But is it doing any good to a mumin or any harm to their exploiters.
Some months back I requested Mr. Asgharali Engineer to use this web-site as the means of disseminating religious and other information that the Syedna's abductors are trying to conceal. This information will alone enlighten the ordinary bohras and force them to speak out. I requested him to get religious books translated or scanned and make them available for free downloads at the progressive dawoodi bohra site.. nothing was done on the pretext that it involves copyright issues. I asked Mr. Engineer to at least allow his own book " Bohras ". for download and there was no reply.
Today the community is facing a turning point in its history. The recent browl which in fact is all about succession can either take the community out of the clutches exploiting it or sink it deep into further subjugation. The need of hour for the fore runners of the progressive forum is to dissiminate latest and authentic news of the bickering. That will fail the attempts of the people weilding power to conceal what actually is going on. Instead of fulfilling this basic requirement the Progressive site is Boasting on its Udaipur Jamaat Banner.
How one would have loved to download those mutch talked about audios from the progressive site and hear from themselves the deciet and corruption of the Syednas family. Someone having the CD or tape pay heed to the hour of need and make it available to download for everyone
PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
Dear perceptive,
Please understand that books cannot be made available for downloads just like that - publishers have copyrights over them. A writer, even if he/she wanted, cannot publish them on the web. As for other materials on the reform movement there's a lot on this site - see the Reform Issues and About Us sections. We try to provide as much material as we possibly can.
As for the inside information on the priesthood, you know it is a secretive cult - nobody knows for sure what goes on there. We do not claim to have any inside track on the recent power bickering - whatever its cause and however it plays out, this drama is not going to change the misfortune of common Bohras. A bunch of priests fighting for power is not new - Dais have been killed and poisoned before. It comes with the territory. We appreciate that all this has a soap opera value, but when the show has ended the need for reform will still be there.
That's why it's important to highlight Udaipur - the centre of reform movement. Have you heard of jamaat elections ever taking place within the Kothar's domain? Well, Udaipur jamaat just elected a team to take care of its own affairs. It's a big deal if you know how common bohras have to put with treacherous amils and their hired bullies.
Please understand, this site is neither a newspaper nor a spy agency. We try to put whatever sensible material we have and can. And this forum is open to public - anyone is welcome to share "inside" information with others. And many do.
We'll appreciate if you could help us provide material that we can put on the web. We try out best and, we believe, we can do better with your help.
Thank you,
Admin
Please understand that books cannot be made available for downloads just like that - publishers have copyrights over them. A writer, even if he/she wanted, cannot publish them on the web. As for other materials on the reform movement there's a lot on this site - see the Reform Issues and About Us sections. We try to provide as much material as we possibly can.
As for the inside information on the priesthood, you know it is a secretive cult - nobody knows for sure what goes on there. We do not claim to have any inside track on the recent power bickering - whatever its cause and however it plays out, this drama is not going to change the misfortune of common Bohras. A bunch of priests fighting for power is not new - Dais have been killed and poisoned before. It comes with the territory. We appreciate that all this has a soap opera value, but when the show has ended the need for reform will still be there.
That's why it's important to highlight Udaipur - the centre of reform movement. Have you heard of jamaat elections ever taking place within the Kothar's domain? Well, Udaipur jamaat just elected a team to take care of its own affairs. It's a big deal if you know how common bohras have to put with treacherous amils and their hired bullies.
Please understand, this site is neither a newspaper nor a spy agency. We try to put whatever sensible material we have and can. And this forum is open to public - anyone is welcome to share "inside" information with others. And many do.
We'll appreciate if you could help us provide material that we can put on the web. We try out best and, we believe, we can do better with your help.
Thank you,
Admin
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
Now that zahir/batin website has disappeared, do you have an archived copy you can provide on this website? It is good for historical reasons.
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
In the long term, it is my opinion that the cause is better served if this site stays away from everything but the facts, as it appears to have thus far. The establishment will exploit any untruths "officially" posted here and convince the Orthodox members that lurk, that this is propaganda. Editorials from Dr. Engineer are informative and clearly presented as his opinions.
I agree with the Admin's post regarding this site and do know that you can't simply make copyrighted material available for download, even if you are the author.
This information will alone enlighten the ordinary bohras and force them to speak out. I wish that were true, but it is idealistic. It is not the lack of information, but the lack of motivation to seek it. There is an abundance of information available for those who seek to convert it to knowledge.
I can speak from personal experience that those who seek the knowledge and get to know what's really happening in the community, either stray from religion entirely, or seek other sources of spirituality.
Few have the courage to fight for change, even when armed with the information.
I agree with the Admin's post regarding this site and do know that you can't simply make copyrighted material available for download, even if you are the author.
This information will alone enlighten the ordinary bohras and force them to speak out. I wish that were true, but it is idealistic. It is not the lack of information, but the lack of motivation to seek it. There is an abundance of information available for those who seek to convert it to knowledge.
I can speak from personal experience that those who seek the knowledge and get to know what's really happening in the community, either stray from religion entirely, or seek other sources of spirituality.
Few have the courage to fight for change, even when armed with the information.
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
====================================================
Can names change the substance of a reality. The evolution from a conventional dawoodi Bohra to a progressive now appears to be an exercise in futility. Most of the better thinking bohras are disillusioned by the hypocracy and exploitation that is taking place under the umbrella of faith.
====================================================
Brother we should call ourselves Muslims as commanded by Allah in the Holy Quran
And you all belong to one and the same Ummah, and I (Allah) am your Lord; so fear Me Alone! Yet afterwards the people divided themselves into different sects, and each sect rejoicing in what it has. Well, leave them deeply involved in their heedlessness up to an appointed time. What? Do they think that, by continuing to provide them with wealth and children, We are solicitous for their welfare? Nay, they
do not understand the reality of the matter!
(Ch 23-52:54)
Exert your utmost for the cause of Allah, as one should. He has chosen you for His service and has not laid on you any hardship in your deen. Therefore, be steadfast in the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah had called you ‘Muslims” before this, and has called you (by the same name) in this Quran also, (Ch 22:78)
Can names change the substance of a reality. The evolution from a conventional dawoodi Bohra to a progressive now appears to be an exercise in futility. Most of the better thinking bohras are disillusioned by the hypocracy and exploitation that is taking place under the umbrella of faith.
====================================================
Brother we should call ourselves Muslims as commanded by Allah in the Holy Quran
And you all belong to one and the same Ummah, and I (Allah) am your Lord; so fear Me Alone! Yet afterwards the people divided themselves into different sects, and each sect rejoicing in what it has. Well, leave them deeply involved in their heedlessness up to an appointed time. What? Do they think that, by continuing to provide them with wealth and children, We are solicitous for their welfare? Nay, they
do not understand the reality of the matter!
(Ch 23-52:54)
Exert your utmost for the cause of Allah, as one should. He has chosen you for His service and has not laid on you any hardship in your deen. Therefore, be steadfast in the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah had called you ‘Muslims” before this, and has called you (by the same name) in this Quran also, (Ch 22:78)
-
perceptive
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2001 4:01 am
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
Cannot agree more with admin, with brother Abdullah, and all those who have commented. The point in question is that primararily all the exploitations are due the distortion in faith. This distortion has been masterly engineered and has resulted in these common perceptions and falalcies:
1- Syedna his family and his apointees of whatever dismal reputation, has to be obeyed. All they desire is Islam.
2- Distortion in the heirarchy of our religion.. Today he is supreme with attributes even the Prophet Muhammad and Imams would never claim to have been gifted..
3- Fallacies like Kitab-ul-Ilm, Ilhaam etc.
4- A systemetic drain of the communities wealth
We all as muslims first and than Shia's has the responsibility to make the ordinary people understand that what they are practising is Shirk and not Islam. The Progressive site being the only outlet can disseminate this religious information in a systemetic way. Admin is talking of difficulties due to copyrights etc....why they dont have a look at the following site which is a treasure trove of the most renowned of books: Articles on seerat of Ali, Imamas, Prayers particularlynthose which relate us can be linked with the progressive site. I just meant that the facts on the site serves no useful purpose
http://www.al-islam.org/
1- Syedna his family and his apointees of whatever dismal reputation, has to be obeyed. All they desire is Islam.
2- Distortion in the heirarchy of our religion.. Today he is supreme with attributes even the Prophet Muhammad and Imams would never claim to have been gifted..
3- Fallacies like Kitab-ul-Ilm, Ilhaam etc.
4- A systemetic drain of the communities wealth
We all as muslims first and than Shia's has the responsibility to make the ordinary people understand that what they are practising is Shirk and not Islam. The Progressive site being the only outlet can disseminate this religious information in a systemetic way. Admin is talking of difficulties due to copyrights etc....why they dont have a look at the following site which is a treasure trove of the most renowned of books: Articles on seerat of Ali, Imamas, Prayers particularlynthose which relate us can be linked with the progressive site. I just meant that the facts on the site serves no useful purpose
http://www.al-islam.org/
Re: PROGRESSIVES and THEIR WEB-SITE
Dear perceptive,
Please look at the Reform Issues section of this site, as we pointed out above. There are scores of articles which clearly explain how our faith has been distorted and how common bohras are being deceived. It's plain that you have not even looked at this section, otherwise you would not have made such comments.
It's unclear to us what you mean by "facts on the site serves no useful purpose". The articles, facts, history and religious background are all there for those who want read and understand.
We agree with GodBless, it's not the lack of information or awareness that's keeping Bohras from revolting. It's the lack of courage and moral fibre. For those who want to know the facts there's no dearth of it.
Thank you,
Admin
Please look at the Reform Issues section of this site, as we pointed out above. There are scores of articles which clearly explain how our faith has been distorted and how common bohras are being deceived. It's plain that you have not even looked at this section, otherwise you would not have made such comments.
It's unclear to us what you mean by "facts on the site serves no useful purpose". The articles, facts, history and religious background are all there for those who want read and understand.
We agree with GodBless, it's not the lack of information or awareness that's keeping Bohras from revolting. It's the lack of courage and moral fibre. For those who want to know the facts there's no dearth of it.
Thank you,
Admin