MISAQ, RAZA and BARAAT were never part of our faith.

[S. Insaf]

Dear Friends,
Please ignore it if this topic has already been discussed.

In the last 80 years Misaq and Raza are so much emphasized that they have become a part of our psychic. In the beginning even our reformists friends found it difficult to digest that Raza and Misaq are not part of our Bohra faith. Hardly any one has any interest and time to look back into the history and find out the truth.
It would be sufficient to quote just one incident reported in the Chandabhoy Galla Case to understand this myth. Due to aggravated financial trouble in 1891 the 49th Dai, Syedna Burhanuddin had to borrow money on interest from two Hindu mahajans and one of his own Amil. Shaikh Abdul Tayeb. On non-payment of their dues they filed suits in the law court at Surat. The Amil actually tried to put Sayedna Burhanuddin into prison for non-payment of Rs.53680 with interest. The case (suit no.285 of 1892) was settled as the Sayedna agreed to pay Rs. 54000/- with interest in 12 installments from his personal income.
After this humiliating incident on request of then Sayedna, Sir Adamji Peerbhoy Rafiuddin drew up a Dastur-al-amal (a constitution) to restrict excessive power enjoyed by local Amils and local functionaries. The local collection then was retained entirely by local Amil and Jamaat. Through this Dasturul-amal it was made obligatory for each Amil to remit part of his collection to the center. This was the beginning of monopolization of all powers in the hands of Dai thus throttling the freedom of followers.
This is to be noted that when Amil Sheikh Abdul Tayeb filed a suit against 49th Sayedna and tried to put him behind bars, even in such crises no issue of Raza, Misaq or Baraat was raised. Even after his strong action against Dai not only that the Amil was not excommunicated but also his wazifa (monthly allowance from Dawat) was not stopped by the then Sayedna. Nor he was asked to take Misaq again.
It is abundantly clear from this incident that till 49th Dai there was no concept of Misaq or Raza or Baraat. Till then not only an ordinary Bohra but even those who were part of Sayedna’s establishment, enjoyed the freedom of challenging the Dai without fearing any threat of excommunication or breaking the Misaq.
The document of Misaq produced as Ex. 17 in Chandabhoy Galla Case (2A BLR 1060) by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin in 1920 was dated 124B Hijri (1833 AD). Even in this document, which was around 100 years-old Misaq was only for Imam and Sayenda Taher Saifuddin had to confess before justice Martin that inclusion of ‘Dai’ along with ‘Imam’ in Misaq Nama was his own creation.
There is no text of Misaq in any book of Dawat. Sayedna Hatim’s book Tohfatul Qulub very briefly mentions about Misaq with a warning that “it does not behave a Dai to ascribe a single word of Misaq towards himself.â€

[Al-Muizz]

Uh, I'm just curious. How can an Amil lend money to the Dai-of all people- on INTEREST? Just on that very fact, the Amil's intentions should be questioned. If he has the balls to do this to his Dai, then what is he doing to his Jamaat members? This moron should have been fired!

I guess, nowadays, the Jamaats do have such corrupt bastards, the likes of this $hithead Sheikh Abdul Tayeb in charge. Nothing has changed, really. We just "legalized" the kind of corruption this so-called Sheikh Abdul Tayeb was up to.

[S. Insaf]

Dear Brother Al-Muizz,
Our 51st Dai, late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb has accepted on oath in Bombay High Court in Chandabhoy Galla case that "Yes I do transiction of money on interest I mean I do take and give interest."
This is till his time most of the dais and Amils and even mumineen used take and give interest and they had found nothing wrong in doing so. Even till 1978 many projects started by him like Leader Press, Bombay Paints, Asian Electronics, Asian Dehydrates etc. showing interest on money he had taken for them in their balance sheets.Bank interest became haram when Kothar tried to siez control over Bombay Merchantile Bank and failed. Till then all the directors of this bank were Dawoodi Bohras, Mohammad Ali Allah Bax, Zen Rangoon wala, Mohsin Doctor, Zulfiqar Husain and many more.

[Al-Muizz]

Br. Insaaf,

I hope I don't sound naive....but I honestly did not know that the Kothar tried to buy a Bank. Do you guys have any solid proof of this? I would just like to know this, for my own clarity's sake.

Shukran!

[accountability]

Al muizz

Read this, you will find some information.
http://www.pucl.org/from-archives/Religion-communalism/bohra.htm

[mumineen]

Syedna’s slaves

Being born into a family of Dawoodi Bohras, a sub–sect among Shia Muslims, you do not automatically become a Dawoodi Bohra yourself. You become one on attaining puberty only after swearing an oath of allegiance — misaq — to the sect’s Dai (head priest). The present head priest is named Syedna Burhanuddin.

On the face of it, this appears to be a fine arrangement — you voluntarily choose to become a Dawoodi Bohra by accepting the oath of allegiance to the Dai. But that is theory. The fact is if you are born into a Dawoodi Bohra, you have very little choice at the age of puberty but to sign on the dotted line. And accepting the misaq is nothing short of agreeing to a state of life–long bondage to the head priest and his agents.

The oath means the acceptance of the Dai not merely as your religious head but also as absolute dictator controlling all aspects of the life of all members of the community. Among other things, the misaq document commits you to the following:

“If a person taking the oath breaks it, all his possessions, i.e., moveables, cash, housing, utensils, jewels, ornaments, carriages, horses, cattle, milching cows, she buffaloes, slaves, males and females, and all worldly material become unlawful for him. All his property is liable to be looted and distributed among the poor and the needy. When he takes the oath again and accepts all the terms of the covenant then his things become lawful to him and then he is entitled to get his things back.

“And if the breaker of the covenant has a wife, that wife becomes forbidden to him. The breach (of covenant) has the effect of the three talaaqs (divorce) against his wife… The woman can never marry him again, neither can he take her as a wife.â€

[Final Destination]

Dear Insaafbhai,
First of all can you throw a little light on your personal achievement (Deeni or Duniya), what you do in life and of course your age?
Well your description just looks authentic for readers coz anyone can type a few sections and dates.
Your story subject revolves back to 49th dai..how can you get such precise information?
Man we got to know the author before we read his articles.
All best in your research!

[Final Destination]

Another point that I want to put up which might looks like a critic but its a point to ponder.
You mentioned that Baiyat is to recognise the Khalifa or Imam. Well am sure you beleive tht the Imam is not present physically with us and so his Da'i is holding the office.
Now my question is whether u name it baiyat or misaaq how on earth would a person recognise the Daí without misaaq or baiyat if ever he had to be recognised lawfully or privately?
So I think misaaq another name for Baiyat yet not being baiyat just to keep that position respect is nothing wrong.
I think you need to think more on this b4 u write something..

[tahir]

Originally posted by Final Destination:
the Imam is not present physically with us and so his Da'i is holding the office.

How can you claim that? May I know your age? Unless you can prove that you were present at the time and place of Imam handing over the 'office' to the dai, your next post should be read with caution.

[tahir]

Besides, If it is difficult for a dawoodi bohra to know about a dai as late as the 49th one, how do you think will someone base his faith on the entire succession of 52, starting from the 'Imam handing over the office' bit?

I mean, if even one of them in the middle is fake, all his successors become disqualified for the seat. So to have his faith in the dawat, the least a dawoodi bohra needs to know is the detailed biographies of all the 52 dais. Else, all claims of believing in the 52nd dai are obviously unfounded.

[anajmi]

That is precisely the reason why succession for religious posts is not to be trusted in the hands of humans.

Look at every prophet in Islam or before. All chosen by Allah, none chosen by humans. As soon as the issue came to khilafat, error in human choice has become obvious.

Stick to the teachings of the last prophet who wasn't chosen by a human.

[S. Insaf]

Dear Brother Final Destination,
I am an Engineer by profession and I was working as General Manager with Godrej & Boyce manfg. Co. in Bombay. Though I was in the managerial cadre going against management wishes I formed “Godrej Staff Unionâ€

[Ali Asgar 232]

Janab Saifuddin saheb ,
Do you have "Sayedna Hatimâ`s book Tohfatul Qulub"? if u hv can u give me the book .

[progticide]

Insaf,

I never wonder why people like you don’t understand Islam and Quran. For the simple fact that people like you don’t have a guide, a leader, a Shepherd to show you the right direction.

Without any detailed study of the subject which you should have undertaken ideally since you have plenty of time at hand in your retired life, you just start a thread to register your presence as a champion of progressive cause albeit with embarrassing consequences, simply to prove to your progressive following that “I Am Still Alive”.

Concepts of Misaaq, Raza and Baraat are clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran, only if you choose to read it carefully. But you and your kind have already chosen a path leading to nowhere in the absence of a guide and therefore come up with any crap on this forum.

I shall quote 5 Quranic references to prove that what you wrote above is utter nonsense. BTW, there are many more references in the Quran.

Misaaq – Read Holy Quran, Surah Al Ahzab, Ayat 7 (33:7) - It clearly mentions about the covenant that Allah took from his prophets. Read Holy Quran, Surah Al Maidah, Ayat 7 (5:7) – It mentions the covenant taken from the Jews.

Raza – Read Holy Quran, Surah Al Araf, Ayat 19 (7:19) – It clearly mentions that Adam did not have the permission to approach the tree.

Baraat – Read Holy Quran, Surah Ash Shuara, Ayat 171 (26:171) – It mentions how Prophet Lut was commanded to take away all family members but leave an old woman (his wife) behind and who perished with the town. Read Holy Quran, Surat Al-Mumtahanah, Ayat 1 (60:1) – Allah warns not to take enemies as friends and offer love even though they have rejected the truth.

Therefore, surely Misaaq, Raza and Baraat may never have been part of your faith which has moved away from the teachings of Quran and the practices of Prophet and Ahlu Bayt and Aimmat Tahereen and Duat Akrameen.

But these 3 are definitely part of the DB faith which is firmly based on the teachings of the Quran and the practices of the Prophet and Ahlu Bayt and Aimmat Tahereen and Duat Akrameen.

[abde53]

progticide bhai
very good and informative post, looks like you are a muaalim teaching some where?

[Humsafar]

Nice try pesticide, now you must be exhausted after all that heavy lifiting and stretching those implied Quranic references into something so venal as the raza, misaaq and baraat as practiced by your masters. You deserve a rest.

[anajmi]

33:7
AND LO! We did accept a solemn pledge from all the prophets from thee, [O Muhammad,] as well as from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary -: for We accepted a most weighty, solemn pledge from [all of] them

What is this pledge that Allah accepted?

33:8
so that [at the end of time] He might ask those men of truth as to [what response] their truthfulness [had received on earth]. [12] And grievous suffering has He readied for all who deny the truth.

To understand, Allah is taking a pledge from the prophets (saw) that they will spread the word of Allah and report to Allah the response that they received from the people. And grievous suffering is ready for those who deny the prophets.

Is this the pledge that the Dai takes from his abde idiots? Does the Dai ask the abde idiots to spread Bohraism? Infact, as it was clarified by Adam and the other abde idiots on another thread, the bohras are not supposed to be doing dawah in this satr period. In that case, the Dai doesn't need a pledge from his abde idiots!!

So this reference from pesticide is invalid.

[anajmi]

5:7
And [always] remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you, and the solemn pledge by which He bound you to Himself [18] when you said, "We have heard, and we pay heed." Hence, remain conscious of God: verily, God has full knowledge of what is in the hearts [of men].

The covenant taken from the jews was what? That they have heard and that they will pay heed. Heard whom? - Allah. Heard what? The commands of Allah. "Hence, remain conscious of God".

Here are some more details about this covenant.

2:83
AND LO! We accepted this solemn pledge from [you,] ' the children of Israel: "You shall worship none but God; and you shall do good unto your parents and kinsfolk, and the orphans, and the poor; and you shall speak unto all people in a kindly way; and you shall be constant in prayer; and you shall spend in charity. ”And yet, save for a few of you, you turned away: for you are obstinate folk!
2:84
And lo! We accepted your solemn pledge that you would not shed one another's blood, and would not drive one another from your homelands - whereupon you acknowledged it; and thereto you bear witness [even now].

The covenant of Allah doesn't involve any intermediary. A muslim is expected to follow the Quran. Allah knows what is in the heart. He doesn't need a piece of paper. A person who accepts Islam, signs a covenant directly with Allah to obey the commands in the Quran. There is no need to sign a covenant with a Dai.

[anajmi]

Raza – Read Holy Quran, Surah Al Araf, Ayat 19 (7:19) – It clearly mentions that Adam did not have the permission to approach the tree.

So you are saying that if Adam had given Allah an envelope of money and asked for raza, Allah would've allowed him to approach the tree?

Do you guys have any thinking power?

[anajmi]

Baraat – Read Holy Quran, Surah Ash Shuara, Ayat 171 (26:171) – It mentions how Prophet Lut was commanded to take away all family members but leave an old woman (his wife) behind and who perished with the town. Read Holy Quran, Surat Al-Mumtahanah, Ayat 1 (60:1) – Allah warns not to take enemies as friends and offer love even though they have rejected the truth.

Has any bohra ever been given a baraat because he doesn't believe in Allah and doesn't pray namaz? I do not know of a single bohra!!. The only reason bohras are given baraat is if they raise their voice against the corrupt clergy. Please do not make these comparisons as they are invalid. Prophet Lut was being commanded by Allah. Allah knows what is in the heart. Your Dai is corrupt and your Imam is in hiding and neither of them know what is in the heart!!

Do you know that even the prophet (saw) suffered baraat at the hands of the pagans of Mecca because he opposed their Gods. Your Dai is a more like those pagans of Mecca!!

[progticide]

2:84
And lo! We accepted your solemn pledge that you would not shed one another's blood, and would not drive one another from your homelands - whereupon you acknowledged it; and thereto you bear witness [even now].

The covenant of Allah doesn't involve any intermediary. A muslim is expected to follow the Quran. Allah knows what is in the heart. He doesn't need a piece of paper. A person who accepts Islam, signs a covenant directly with Allah to obey the commands in the Quran. There is no need to sign a covenant with a Dai.

Anajmi,
You are a moron of the worst order and I never doubted that. Once again, you have reinforced my opinion for you.

You idiot, what you are implying from the above is that the Jews spoke to Allah directly. That would mean that all the Jews during the period of Prophet Musa were Kalimullah. Only that way they would have been able to make a covenant with Allah without an intermediary and Allah would have spoken with them directly thereby laying down the terms and conditions of the pledge. Then why did Allah trouble Musa with the task of prophethood when he could take a covenant/pledge from the Jews directly.

And in the story of Prophet Lut, read carefully who instructed Prophet Lut to leave the town. It was not Allah directly who instructed Prophet Lut to leave behind his wife but the three angels who were sent to Prophet Lut who instructed him to abandon the old woman, his wife. So again, there were intermediaries carrying the instructions from Allah.

So now we all know what kind of Ilm you are receiving from your Ahl e Zikr.

I think you and your Ahl e Zikr are the only Muslims who believe that all Jews were Kalimullah, whereas all other Muslims including DBs believe that Prophet Musa is kalimullah.

Even the Jews never claimed that they spoke to Allah directly without any intermediary. Therefore, I cannot call you a Jew also.

Maybe you would wanna tell everyone on this forum what religion you follow?

[abde53]

progticide bhai
please donot be like opposition progressive, please donot use any abusive words, you are very knowledgeable and in the absence of adam bhai you are doing a very good job of explaining our shafiq bawa TUS teachings. you have said these are misguided people and they have been brain washed and it may take some time to change them and bring them to our dawat as per khushi of our moula TUS let us do that with mohabbat and shaffaqat.
for your posts and knowledge it seems that you must have received some mushafiyat from our moula TUS and we need to respect his blessings to you.

[anajmi]

pesticide,

The Quran is the word of Allah. So Allah is speaking directly to us. Abde idiots do not understand the simple language of Allah, so they have to go corrupt humans, who take advantage of them and convert them into abde idiots by making them sign mithaqs that have nothing to do with Islam.

In the Pledge that Allah took from the jews (through Musa), does the pledge mention the name of Musa (as)? Are the jews required to swear allegiance to Musa (as)? Now consider the pledge that you give to your Dai. But you are too dumb to see the difference. You deserve your Dai!!

The pledge that we have through prophet Muhammad (saw) is the Quran. That is our pledge. What the Dai is making you sign is your slavery. Nothing more!!

[progticide]

Insaf,
Are you still alive?

Have you got your answer or are you now turning over the pages of Quran to check if you can produce a counter-argument?

Next time, make sure you do a good homework before you start a thread like this. For people like you and Prof. Poo (Porus), the time to further fool the progressives has come to an end.

It is also time for the rest of the progressives to see through the ill-design and corrupt and hollow arguments of their leaders who are falling down on this forum like bowling pins.

[Humsafar]

Pesticide, hope you had a good rest. Looks like you're ready for another bout of stretching!!!

[progticide]

Pesticide, hope you had a good rest. Looks like you're ready for another bout of stretching!!!

Humsafar,
Refreshment time is over. Where is Insaf, if you would know by any chance?

It's really sad for him to have started a topic and then disappear altogether at the slighest swing of arms from the opponent.

Should I consider my above response on this thread as a knock-out punch for Insaf?

[Humsafar]

Pesticide, Insaf saheb started this topic six years ago, probably you were still suckling at that time. You came too late to the party boy, and if in your misguided zeal you feel you have delivered a knockout punch, please arrange for appropriate fateh mubin, I'm sure you must have learned from your masters how to celebrate hollow victories. And after your have jumped up and down enough, you can bet back to stretching the Quran to justify shirk and kufr and all the excess of your Royals. And then you can celebrate another fateh mubin.

[Adam]

I'm sure Progticide will celebrate his victory, in anyway he chooses. Nothing wrong with that.

[Humsafar]

I'm sure Progticide will celebrate his victory, in anyway he chooses. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, nothing wrong with celebrating hollow victories. You can join him too, after all you are also good at "stretching".

[humanbeing]

HI Adam

My queries are with reference to Misaaq, Raza and Baraat from common routine practical point of view of a commoner

Misaaq : Truth is different then Theory of Misaaq ritual. A bohra when he/she takes misaaq at puberty still does not have the maturity and knowledge of oaths / vows being taken. Actual ritual of Misaaq is another celebrated event in a bohra’s life with a broad understanding that he/she has become a bohra by oath in addition to being bohra by birth. Actual text of Misaaq (pledge of Allegiance) is not shared in a written format like an agreement / contract etc for one to refer to in future or for better understanding. Text of Misaaq is narrated too fast for a teenager to grasp what he/she is getting into apart from lack of maturity to understand what conditions are being imposed upon.

Please help me understand, how does such ritual regarded as central condition to become a bohra passed off in such a jiffy. Although we have noticed that, a teenager new to misaak usually has to pass through some oral test (viva voce) by a Muallim, Sheikh or presiding Amil who is undertaking Misaak. Such test is usually deeni taalim oriented related to namaaz, quraan and duas. But does not confirm understanding of terms and conditions underlined in Misaaq.

Why is Text of Misaaq not circulated amongst the bohras ? A covenant / pledge / vow so important next to Kalema-of-shahadat to abide by. Shall be framed and kept for reference, like other texts of importance.

There could be few conditions which many bohras don’t abide by or violate the vows unintentionally (due to lack of understanding) or intentionally. One who is aware can seek forgiveness and have fresh misaak taken (as its suggested, after repentance). But in unintentional cases, how do you justify adherence of Misaak as important to remain a bohra ? and save it from becoming a lip service ? (which it has become)
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Raza : Means to seek permission. A need for Raza can be justified for various reasons (in my opinion)

A) In matters of religious nature, sayedna saheb being the leader / teacher to guide and direct actions of the bohra community for religious rituals.

B) As organized community and to facilitate smooth functioning of the religious rituals, one has to approach channels to seek Raza from appointed Raza na saheb.

C) As perceived, that Bohra are naïve to take their own decision of secular life matters. Shall seek raza and guidance from sayedna saheb as he knows the unknown and best for bohra.

Is it physically and materially possible for sayedna saheb to personally look into each and every arzi sent by bohra mumineen all over the world? Although I have also heard that, raza na saheb appointed by sayedna saheb qualified to answer arzi’s take care of the bulk raza. Only raza of serious nature goes to sayedna saheb. I have observed people seeking raza for driving license – Purchase of property – Feeding babies – Marriage - engangement etc. Such trivial occasions and matters, how does that effect spiritual elevation of the raza seekers.

Please note, there is a difference between seeking raza and blessing !
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Baraat : Conditions of Baraat are underlined in the Misaak and a general understanding of baraat is violation of conditions in the Misaak / non belief in Fatimid Daawat / Rebellion against Daawat etc.

Does cheating Daawat and Dai qualify for the baraat of a person ? (Financially or Religiously)

What is the scope of Baraat ? is it expulsion / excommunication of a person from bohra community or Islam ?

Similar to Misaaq, why is Order or Baraat not given in writing to the accused ?

Note : Please correct me for any misunderstanding of the concepts expressed above.