I read on this website from AZAD the news Letter of Reformist Bohras of Great Britain that a whole lot Staunch Reformist Dawoodi Bohras from U.K. and other foriegn countries visited Sayedi Fakhruddin Sahid's mazar in Galiakot. Being staunch reformists they neither had required green or yellow card nor they had taken Amil's permission for Ziyarat. Why this especial treatment to them and not any other ordinary Dawoodi Bohra? They were also requested to have meals there but they refused.
Also the Reformists from Udaipur belonging to Bohra Youth often visit Galiakot mazar and some other mazars in Ahmedabad etc. and they are not asked for raza or cards. Why this hypocrisy? Can any one let me know?
Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Why are Kothari Bohras silent on this issue? If it is a strategy to lure reformists then Kothar should know that the reformists know their civil rights and would not fall in their trap. But it the fear of outcome of hearings in the Supreme Court on Review Petition in Excommunication Case.
Bohras must take maximum advantage of this situation abolish RAZA and CARD SYSTEM once for all.
Bohras must take maximum advantage of this situation abolish RAZA and CARD SYSTEM once for all.
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
The only time you need safai chitti (the letter of introduction...which is color coded) which if you get it is your raza..is if you are staying at the mazar lodgings. It is ignorance and lack of any supportive argument that lead to make blanket statements...which has lead to what you believe regarding raza and safai chitti..which obviously is false.
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Safai Chitthi is required for ceremonies (weddings etc) performed away from home town.
Safai chitthi is not raza, although it might be difficult to get one in another town. I remember going for Umra with a safai chitthi and was told to seek Raza before visiting Haram.
Raza is required for all religious and non-religious functions in which you want to invite Jamaat members in privacy of your home. It is also clear that, according to Bohra belief, if you do not qualify for raza, then your prayers, even in privacy of your home, are not valid. According to Atlanta amil, all your efforts (to pray to Allh" are fruitless.
Although not a requirement, salaam (money) for Raza-na Saheb is expected if you want your functions to go smoothly.
Safai chitthi is not raza, although it might be difficult to get one in another town. I remember going for Umra with a safai chitthi and was told to seek Raza before visiting Haram.
Raza is required for all religious and non-religious functions in which you want to invite Jamaat members in privacy of your home. It is also clear that, according to Bohra belief, if you do not qualify for raza, then your prayers, even in privacy of your home, are not valid. According to Atlanta amil, all your efforts (to pray to Allh" are fruitless.
Although not a requirement, salaam (money) for Raza-na Saheb is expected if you want your functions to go smoothly.
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
qiyam, Where have you been my friend? Come out of the dark ages. Are you a commoner like us or a brahmin (kothar). Do you live in the trenches with us? Some of the things you state here make me wonder. You only need safai chiti is when you live at the mazar lodgings! Get real!
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Qiyam,
You are lying and I have already exposed you before. For you new comers, here's how this interchange will end up (all real quotes from Qiyam regarding this topic) :
“The only time you need safai chitti (the letter of introduction...which is color coded) which if you get it is your raza..is if you are staying at the mazar lodgings.”
“I didn't say safai chitti is ONLY for traveling...”
“I never stated it was only for traveling”
“this is why is said it is USUALLY for traveling on ziyarats”
“Safai Chitti is a letter of introduction”
“If you know lisan ad'dawat you would know it is a letter of introduction of your standing with your local jamat”
“Note the safai chitti is only used when staying at the musafir khanna”
“it is used for say at hostels of ziyarat, religious actions like burial and daris”
“this is required to make sure your financial requirements to the mosque and jamat (sabil) are complete”
“This has nothing to do with your practice of Islam outside of the Masjid/Markez”
“it is a letter of introduction from your jamat to the place your going (that your sabil is paid)...and is usually only needed when staying at the musafir khanna”
“A safai chitti is regarding religious items like paying sabil, wajibat, etc....and it is only good for religious institutions”
“I never stated it didn't affect your relations with the jamat or religious institutions. I said it doesn't effect your life outside the religious institutions”
The real world knows that based on its enforcement :
A Safait Chitti is an instrument of control whereby the Dai uses it to control every aspect of your personal, social, business, political & religious life.
You are lying and I have already exposed you before. For you new comers, here's how this interchange will end up (all real quotes from Qiyam regarding this topic) :
“The only time you need safai chitti (the letter of introduction...which is color coded) which if you get it is your raza..is if you are staying at the mazar lodgings.”
“I didn't say safai chitti is ONLY for traveling...”
“I never stated it was only for traveling”
“this is why is said it is USUALLY for traveling on ziyarats”
“Safai Chitti is a letter of introduction”
“If you know lisan ad'dawat you would know it is a letter of introduction of your standing with your local jamat”
“Note the safai chitti is only used when staying at the musafir khanna”
“it is used for say at hostels of ziyarat, religious actions like burial and daris”
“this is required to make sure your financial requirements to the mosque and jamat (sabil) are complete”
“This has nothing to do with your practice of Islam outside of the Masjid/Markez”
“it is a letter of introduction from your jamat to the place your going (that your sabil is paid)...and is usually only needed when staying at the musafir khanna”
“A safai chitti is regarding religious items like paying sabil, wajibat, etc....and it is only good for religious institutions”
“I never stated it didn't affect your relations with the jamat or religious institutions. I said it doesn't effect your life outside the religious institutions”
The real world knows that based on its enforcement :
A Safait Chitti is an instrument of control whereby the Dai uses it to control every aspect of your personal, social, business, political & religious life.
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Porus wrote:
"Safai Chitthi is required for ceremonies (weddings etc) performed away from home town."
---correct...when doing ziyarat or having a religious ceremony in another jamat a safai chitti is required. It is not required if you are doing any of these RELIGIOUS things in your home town, but raza is required in that case.
Godbless,
Proven what...and when?
Safai chitti is a means of control? Control of whom and for what means?
Learn this first before making stupid comments (see explaination above).
If you pay your sabil and your wajibat....you know the things required by GOD...then what problem will you have in getting one.
And every quote you made (though most out of context) is true and doesn't contradict anything I written. So what is your point?
"Safai Chitthi is required for ceremonies (weddings etc) performed away from home town."
---correct...when doing ziyarat or having a religious ceremony in another jamat a safai chitti is required. It is not required if you are doing any of these RELIGIOUS things in your home town, but raza is required in that case.
Godbless,
Proven what...and when?
Safai chitti is a means of control? Control of whom and for what means?
Learn this first before making stupid comments (see explaination above).
If you pay your sabil and your wajibat....you know the things required by GOD...then what problem will you have in getting one.
And every quote you made (though most out of context) is true and doesn't contradict anything I written. So what is your point?
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Galiakot is a very Busy place
Sometimes they dont have time to check all the safaii Chitti
Usually in a group of 6-8 ppl, only one person shows the saffai Chiiiti and others just go in.
Of course its better to have your safaii Chiiti ready (just in case they check yours). You dont want to be thrown out after making such a tiring journey to Galiakot.
Sometimes they dont have time to check all the safaii Chitti
Usually in a group of 6-8 ppl, only one person shows the saffai Chiiiti and others just go in.
Of course its better to have your safaii Chiiti ready (just in case they check yours). You dont want to be thrown out after making such a tiring journey to Galiakot.
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Qiyam: You really make me laugh when I READ YOUR COMMENTS AFTER A BUSY DAY- Raza & safai chithi "Under GOd"- What are you talking about ? Oh I forgot your god is Syedna Burhanuddin! When the daddy claimed under the oath in the Chandabhai case- so why should son fall behind? Br Observer -You made right comments about this stupid most degrading safaichithi & raza controlled by one of the most tyranical administration on earth!
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Sorry- I meant comments made by "God bless:-
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Qiyam,Learn this first before making stupid comments
In order to engage in an intellectual dialogue, without repurcussions from your God, it is imperative that you first take your head out of your ass. The stupid comments were quotes from your previous posts.
Your moronoic question Control of whom and for what means? can best be answered with your stupid comments
It is control because :
1. A Safai Chitti is used to control USUALLY for traveling on ziyarats
2. A Safai Chitti is used to control religious actions like burial and daris
3. A safai Chitti is used to control your introduction from your jamat to the place your going
In your role as an apologist, you may even be taken seriously by some if you at least try to be consistent with your own statements.
Best Regards,
- God Bless
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
Godbless,
Firstly, I am not an apologist...because I have nothing to apologize for. If I am anything is a corrector of false statement made by ignorants who are to lazy to research their statements first before arguing about them!!!
The stupid comments I referred to we're:
"You are lying and I have already exposed you before."
--I have not lied...every quote you took of me is positively in line with every argument I've made...so again what is your point???
If it is in line with what you wrote about control...then you know little of what a safai chitti is for and when it is issued!
It is ONLY control in the means of regulating members of jamats are clear of their responsibilities to their home jamat. I have no right to religious benefits or actions at other religious institutions...if my responsibility at the home institution is not clear.
"1. A Safai Chitti is used to control USUALLY for traveling on ziyarats"
---it is needed if you are staying at the mazar lodging...not just to do the ziyarat.
"2. A Safai Chitti is used to control religious actions like burial and daris."
--you do not need a safai chitti for this if it is in your home town (you need raza for this)...you do if is in another jamat.
"3. A safai Chitti is used to control your introduction from your jamat to the place your going."
--only if you are going to another jamat or staying at a religious institution.
Every statement you quoted fall directly in line with what I written in explaination.
Every item you listed...YOU have misquoted or miscontrued. So what are YOU arguing for?
You can't have an intellectual conversation with me...you need to learn about the topic first!
Firstly, I am not an apologist...because I have nothing to apologize for. If I am anything is a corrector of false statement made by ignorants who are to lazy to research their statements first before arguing about them!!!
The stupid comments I referred to we're:
"You are lying and I have already exposed you before."
--I have not lied...every quote you took of me is positively in line with every argument I've made...so again what is your point???
If it is in line with what you wrote about control...then you know little of what a safai chitti is for and when it is issued!
It is ONLY control in the means of regulating members of jamats are clear of their responsibilities to their home jamat. I have no right to religious benefits or actions at other religious institutions...if my responsibility at the home institution is not clear.
"1. A Safai Chitti is used to control USUALLY for traveling on ziyarats"
---it is needed if you are staying at the mazar lodging...not just to do the ziyarat.
"2. A Safai Chitti is used to control religious actions like burial and daris."
--you do not need a safai chitti for this if it is in your home town (you need raza for this)...you do if is in another jamat.
"3. A safai Chitti is used to control your introduction from your jamat to the place your going."
--only if you are going to another jamat or staying at a religious institution.
Every statement you quoted fall directly in line with what I written in explaination.
Every item you listed...YOU have misquoted or miscontrued. So what are YOU arguing for?
You can't have an intellectual conversation with me...you need to learn about the topic first!
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
In other words Br Qiyam You are implying that you need either SafaiChithi or Raza to do anything in the community!Have you got any freedom to do anything of your own or you are totally controlled by your Syedna & his Kothari machine!This is the worst degradation of the community under the tyranical dictatorship of the Syedna!
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
MH,
"In other words Br Qiyam You are implying that you need either SafaiChithi or Raza to do anything in the community!"
---Again, there is like a huge difficulty in connecting the dots.
Is the only things you do all day and every day things related or tied to the religious institutions or events??
Obviously NO...so why would you even make such a statement. It is your kind of unsubstaniated rhetoric that create this idiotic chaos.
Your argumenet for example is:
I need a safai chitti to go on ziyarat SO THAT I MAY STAY AT THE MUSAFIR KHANNA.
(NOTE WHY YOU NEED THE SAFAI CHITTI TO BEGIN WITH)
Therefore my entire life is under total control.
Firstly...how many ziyarats does one go on in a life time?
What is required of safai chitti:
--keeping in line with the requirements of the faith generally....even this is very loose. Usually the only requirement for this is that you haven't publicly offended the faith.
--clear of your debt to being a member of the jamat..sabil.
--clear of your responsibilities to the Imam (the Dai in satr)...zakat ul'fitr and khums.
If you feel this is a burden to you...why be a part of community to begin with?
"In other words Br Qiyam You are implying that you need either SafaiChithi or Raza to do anything in the community!"
---Again, there is like a huge difficulty in connecting the dots.
Is the only things you do all day and every day things related or tied to the religious institutions or events??
Obviously NO...so why would you even make such a statement. It is your kind of unsubstaniated rhetoric that create this idiotic chaos.
Your argumenet for example is:
I need a safai chitti to go on ziyarat SO THAT I MAY STAY AT THE MUSAFIR KHANNA.
(NOTE WHY YOU NEED THE SAFAI CHITTI TO BEGIN WITH)
Therefore my entire life is under total control.
Firstly...how many ziyarats does one go on in a life time?
What is required of safai chitti:
--keeping in line with the requirements of the faith generally....even this is very loose. Usually the only requirement for this is that you haven't publicly offended the faith.
--clear of your debt to being a member of the jamat..sabil.
--clear of your responsibilities to the Imam (the Dai in satr)...zakat ul'fitr and khums.
If you feel this is a burden to you...why be a part of community to begin with?
Re: Why this hypocrisy about Raza & Card system?
A real Mumin would rather be a sheep of their DAI than be a WOLF in sheep's clothing like you..Originally posted by MOHD HUSSAIN:
In other words Br Qiyam You are implying that you need either SafaiChithi or Raza to do anything in the community!Have you got any freedom to do anything of your own or you are totally controlled by your Syedna & his Kothari machine!This is the worst degradation of the community under the tyranical dictatorship of the Syedna!
I think many Mumineen will agree with me.. Except Munafeqeen like you..
A leaf that falls from a tree will rot very soon and then needs to be burnt.. and that is what will happen to you, JINX and S. Na Insaf.