Solar & Lunar Eclipses

[alsojinxed]

Can anyone provide details as to why solar and lunar eclipses are supposed to be avoided (one must stay indoors), and more specifically why they are bad for pregnant woman?

I don't have any scientific or theological answers and believe this to be nothing but folklore.

Can any brothers/ sisters give their insight?

[Muslim First]

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There is no room for superstition in Islam, therefore true Muslims do not believe in such things.

Wasalaam

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[alsojinxed]

MF:

I also agree 100% that their is no place for superstition in Islam.

However I am curious to know if there is any underlying theological/ scientific reason that this issue has come about.
For example, I know that an eclipse causes disarray for a lot of nature (plants/ animals in the wild), and tends to off-balance the eco-system.

Perhpas there is a link with pregnant woman?

With the bohras , they talk about how a preganat woman must stay indoors and not touch metal. This to me is more mythology/ superstition - but since it is related to a eclipse, and as an eclipse has clear issues for the rest of nature - would there be some kind of reasoning.

Can anyone elaborate?

[Muslim First]

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Br.antijinxed
AS

With the bohras , they talk about how a preganat woman must stay indoors and not touch metal. This to me is more mythology/ superstition - but since it is related to a eclipse, and as an eclipse has clear issues for the rest of nature - would there be some kind of reasoning.

There is no issue here except superstition. If there was a reason resident Mulla qiyam would have piped in.

Bohra's in particular and Muslims of India to some lesser extent has not shed ingrained superstitious way of Hindu heritage. They have not totally surrendered to Allah SWT.

I for that matter like to understand what the content of ‘Lota’ is, which was buried when Sultan Burhnuddin did Taasses of Boston Mosque. (See http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/08.jpg ). Does it have any base in Qurra’n or Sunnah of Prophet SAW.

Wasalaam
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[qiyam]

MF and antijinxed,
There are many ayats of the Quran and traditions of the Prophet refered to "things not understood". Many ignorant people call these "superstitions".

There are many things in this world that we don't understand which the Prophet has given advice to avoid. Good and bad Jinn, the evil eye, nadhir, etc. all are present in this world and we don't understand them completely.

For MF to say this is the folly of the ignorant...shows he ignorance of the sunnah.

[Muslim First]

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Br. qiyam
AS
Once again we lock horns

Your

There are many things in this world that we don't understand which the Prophet has given advice to avoid. Good and bad Jinn, the evil eye, nadhir, etc. all are present in this world and we don't understand them completely.

For MF to say this is the folly of the ignorant...shows he ignorance of the sunnah.

I must admit there are Ayats in Qur'an which say we do not understand many things of Allah's creation.

Could you point a Ayah or sunnah of Prophet SAW forbids believing women from going out during solar and lunar eclipses. Or hang 'Limbu' to ward off evils from house?

If you do not understand then don't go there but to INNOVATE in Islam is no no.

BTW what did Syedana put in what appears to be a 'Lota' whith red kerchif tied on the top?

Wasalaam

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[qiyam]

Narrated Abu Musa:
The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."

The Prophet son Ibrahim died during an eclipse.

According to Surah Qiyamah...the day of Judgement will arrive like an eclipse.

[Muslim First]

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Br.qiyam
AS
Thank you for Hadith.

So when sun/moon eclipses the people should go to mosque and offer prayer and Duaa "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."

And that is end of it. This still does not explain why pregnant woman has to hide!

Now see this picture at http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/06.jpg and please tell me what is in this 'Ghada' or 'Lota'?

Wasalaam
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[ponga bhori]

Not only the pregnant woman but some even insist that the husband also stays indoors !!!!

[qiyam]

MF,
the point was that the Prophet went inside and prayed...not just the mosque. He was afraid because the day of Judgement will be like an eclipse. It is meant for men and women alike.

[alsojinxed]

Br Qiyam,

Well noted that the eclipse is a sign of the Almighty's divinity and prayer and rememberance of God goes without saying - completely agree on this point.

But as you relay yourself, it is NOT the cause of death. So what does an eclipse have to do with not touching metal and not staring at the eclipse and other 'myths/superstitions' the bohris say can cause problems.

In my opinion these must be old hindu superstitions passed along and not abandoned.

[qiyam]

alsojinxed,
firstly, it is wise not to call something myth or superstition..until you know the reason behind it. Muslims didn't until this century understand why the Prophet said to sleep on your side (it is better for your spine) or why men shouldn't wear gold and women should (gold affects men's blood stream leading to blood cloting and the iron in gold helps women's blood during menses).

These beliefs are not just followed by muslims, hindus...but by indian in america, mexican, people of south americas as well.

[porus]

Superstition, no doubt.

Eclipse is a regular event and is not a sudden sign from Almighty. Its occurence can be predicted very accurately.

The way the stars and planets move means that occasionally, moon is going to block the sun from being seeen on earth.

What evidence is there that Prophet knew that eclipses were regular occurences? None. Ancient Arabs talk of seven heavens and zodiac etc. These were pre-scientific speculations. So, if Prophet got frightened by an Eclipse, I think he was a prisoner of local superstitious culture. Nothing more. Nothing less.

So, what are Bohras to do if there is an eclipse on Jupiter or Mars? These bodies affect us too, gravitationally certainly, but may be in some other superstitious way!

[alsojinxed]

Qiyam - I mentioned that in my opinion they are myths, but was asking for reason/ logic/ scientific or theological backing as to the traditios surrounding an eclipse (eg: no toucgning metal).

As usual - you have not answered questions but found ways skirt around the topic.

[Anwar]

Can someone please explain what is the occation and why moula is doing whatever he is doing?
(See http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/08.jpg http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/06.jpg

[Anwar]

Br Qiyams reply "It is odd that while arguing a point...evidence of that point is never brought by any of you. And by the way...have you explain the meaning of why one is a "chittiwala" and why not CORRECTLY" What evidence do you expect? A signed and sealed letter from my guest?One thing you can be sure is,its nothing to be proud of to hear such a critisism of ones community, but then I couldnot argue with him either, as he had more to say about his personal experiences of Bohras as he knew them,either thru his work or social meets. I did not bring up the "chittiwalla" subject. You want an explaination of why one is chittiwalla? come on Br,are you trying to tell me you do not know what is a chittiwalla? One thing is for sure, you are one but not me. (I have been told that I cannot get a safai chitti as I have not paid some dues agreed at closed door gathering, and I wouldnt give a shit to this so called safaichitti/visa to enter haven)

[Anwar]

Sorry, this reply should have been posted under "A Message for the Munafiqs on this website " and I will paste it there

[asif]

HI MF ,

U grandly stated that there is no room for superstition in Islam .
U also indicate that Hindusim is based on superstition & mythology . Most of ur posts revolve around asking one thing or the other about the traditions we have & deriding it.

Could u pls respond to a few questions
1) What is the reason of ur superiority complex about Islam ? Even u r superstitious when u believe in Allah , the ayats of Quaran .

2) I agree that Hinduism has superstition & mythology but how very much Islam as a religion is different from that? I agree that existence of Mohammad etc are historic facts , but how does it prove the exitence of Allah ?

3) Things are mentioned in Quaran which has no scientific basis ( like Jinn , Angels etc ... I admit I dunno more than that about Quaran else may be I could have given more such examples) , but u believe them .How is it different from superstition?

4) If I am not wrong the Kalma itself means that There is only one God & Mohammad , his messenger . & U believe it ? Why ? Isn't that a superstition? Existence of God with eyes closed is teh biggest superstition & u grandly say that there is no room for superstition in Islam !!!!

MF , the contempt u have for other ppl ( religion ) & the superiority u feel , are exactly the fertile grounds in which fanaticsm propspers.

[qiyam]

Alsojinxed, MF,
My point in writing what I wrote is that there are traditions that do not have scientific knowledge of yet. This is why I posted the comparisions with sleeping on the side and wearing or not wearing a gold ring. It wasn't until recently that we as human were able to scientifically affirm that traditions. Before that, you and MF would have been calling those traditions myths or superstitions as well.

This is the reason I said to be careful what you call a superstition. These traditions have not been proven false.

We don't know what the effects of the magnified solar rays have on a child in the womb. Remember after 3 or 4 months, doctors do not like taking ultrasounds of the fetus unless needed or requested. Though no significant changes in birth have been reported because of the low level of sound waves, repeated procedures are detered. This is different from the electro-magnetic waves emitted from the solar flares of the sun which are very strong.

Porus,
the reason the Prophet was afraid was because the Quran describes the arrival of the day of Judgement with and eclipse. It was not the eclipse itself.

[Muslim First]

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Br. Dr. qiyam wrote:

We don't know what the effects of the magnified solar rays have on a child in the womb. Remember after 3 or 4 months, doctors do not like taking ultrasounds of the fetus unless needed or requested. Though no significant changes in birth have been reported because of the low level of sound waves, repeated procedures are detered. This is different from the electro-magnetic waves emitted from the solar flares of the sun which are very strong.

Dr. qiyam, please stop tap dancing thru tulips.

There is no unusual magnification of rays during solar and lunar eclipses. Its just one body passes in line of other consequently either blocking or casting shadow. If there was any effect on fetus, it would have been shown-up in more percentages of abortions or sick babies.

Recently we experienced two unusual solar bursts and all kind of warnings were issued. I did not see a single announcement telling pregnant women to stay indoors.

Brother; why don't you just let it go. It is just superstition and not part of Islam.

Now can you please explain what your moula is doing during Taasee of Boston Masjid?

(See http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/08.jpg http://jamaats.mumineen.org/boston/taasees/06.jpg

Wasalaam

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[qiyam]

MF,
I am not a doctor..nor do I admit to play one. So, unlike yourself, I cannot say what physically occurs to a woman during an eclipse. Apparent YOU as man can. I'll be sure to use you as reference...thanks.

The picture shows Maulana laying the foundation of the masjid which the pyaya (lower legs) of a sacrificed lamb event.

[Muslim First]

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Asif

Salaam

Your

U also indicate that Hindusim is based on superstition & mythology

No I did not state that.
I said "Bohra's in particular and Muslims of India to some lesser extent has not shed ingrained superstitious way of Hindu heritage"

1) What is the reason of ur superiority complex about Islam ? Even u r superstitious when u believe in Allah , the ayats of Quaran .

I never said Islam is superior religion. It is best religion fo me. " Even u r superstitious when u believe in Allah , the ayats of Quaran ", please explain more.

Question 2: but how does it prove the exitence of Allah ?

Read thru similar questions at: http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&d ... =220&dgn=4

Question 3: You could find your answer at: http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&d ... =228&dgn=4

Question 4: If I am not wrong the Kalma itself means that There is only one God & Mohammad , his messenger . & U believe it ? Why ? Isn't that a superstition?

No for me it is not superstition. It is declaration of faith. Declaration that there is one God, we call Allah and negatation of all other gods and Muhammad as his last and final Messenger.

Isn't that a superstition? Existence of God with eyes closed is teh biggest superstition & u grandly say that there is no room for superstition in Islam !!!!

You prove it that belief in god is superstition. Then we will have further discussion.

Peace.

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[Muslim First]

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Br. qiyam

Can you please explain ceremony in little bit more detail? Did they leave leg of lamb in ground to support foundation?

What is in that thing covered with red rumal?

I was at foundation digging ceremony of ICB cultural Center and Mosque. all they did was read Fateha and a Sura of qur'an and had children of Madrasa dig some dirt. Then ofcourse President of Mosque,Mayor of Boston and Congressmen did their own digging for Photo-op.

Wasalaam

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[alsojinxed]

Qiyam:

You wrote:
Alsojinxed, MF,

"My point in writing what I wrote is that there are traditions that do not have scientific knowledge of yet. This is why I posted the comparisions with sleeping on the side and wearing or not wearing a gold ring. It wasn't until recently that we as human were able to scientifically affirm that traditions. Before that, you and MF would have been calling those traditions myths or superstitions as well."

With regards to matters such as men not wearing gold and sleeping on the side, these were TRADITIONS OF THE PROPHET.

However the fact that one must not touch metal during eclipse when pregnant, and not look at the eclipse etc.... these were not traditions of the prophet (saw) and stemmed from hindu traditions I believe, only in India. Muslims in the arab countires do not follow such traditions/ superstitions. I do agree the eclipse is a sign from the almighty, and there are special prayers for it, but cannot find any rational in the actions common in india (bohras/ indians).

do you have any insight into these, or am i only to expect further skirting on the topic from you?

[asif]

Dear MF,
U r giving general links with pages which must have been written by somebody of ur tribe.Nothing there proves existence of ur almighty nor does it answer any questions. & pray while answering my questions ( if u wish to) don't direct me to any links . Just copy paste what u want to let us know.
Asking me to first prove that God does not exist , indicates that when fundamental question is asked to believers like u , they start squirming .
In my previous arguments with Khairan , on this forum, he also resorted to such arguments , like aksing me to disprove existnce of God, when cornered. This is just playing with words . I cannot prove that a non existent thing does not exist. I agree that u have faith in Allah & his religion. But u mix up faith with truth. Faith may not always be the truth .
& just for the sake of argument , my faith is that eclipse has potential of causing damage to pregnant female. I declare that is my faith . So why is it superstition? Why is it that in whatever u belive in is faith & what rest do is superstition? Possible that extent of superstition/faith may vary from individual to individual but still ...
& By the way U know , daily I am talking to ur Prophet & Allah . They come & meet me & take my advice . Pls try & disprove it that I am telling lies.

[qiyam]

However the fact that one must not touch metal during eclipse when pregnant, and not look at the eclipse etc.... these were not traditions of the prophet (saw) and stemmed from hindu traditions I believe, only in India. Muslims in the arab countires do not follow such traditions/ superstitions. I do agree the eclipse is a sign from the almighty, and there are special prayers for it, but cannot find any rational in the actions common in india (bohras/ indians).

--Firstly, as I stated, this custom is practiced throught the world..not just in India or just by Hindu...so it is wrong to say it is a Hindu custom. Chinese, American Indians, Central American, South Americans, Africans and ARABS practice this.

I personally have found no islamic evidence for or against the warning thereof. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist...I just have not seen it. So I cannot denounce the practice as superstiton...because it may be true. I have stated this several times...so I was not skirting the issue.

It should be noted that the Prophet stated many practices without explaining them, which is why I quote the two traditions. This by no means means that everything else is superstition. There are forces and things in this world we do not yet understand.

[qiyam]

Dear MF,
the red rumal is what contained the pyaya. Pyaya are the bones (unbroken or cut at the joints) of the sacrificed lamb or goat. This is considered laying the foundation of any structure and is done before the foundation is constructed.

[Muslim First]

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Br. qiyam

Thank you for explaination. you wrote:

the red rumal is what contained the pyaya. Pyaya are the bones (unbroken or cut at the joints) of the sacrificed lamb or goat. This is considered laying the foundation of any structure and is done before the foundation is constructed.

Is there any reference in Quran or sunnah of Prophet SAW that this is the tradition Muslims should follow?

To sacrifice a lamb and thank Allah SWT is OK. I would rather eat delicious PAYAS then throw it under the foundation. (I hope foundation was well compacted and geotechnical engineer did not object to non homogeneous material (bones) under the footing.

So this is just Bohra custom not a religious requirement? Please educate me if prophet buried bones under houses and Masjids.

Wasalaam

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[Muslim First]

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BR. Alsojinxed

AS

You might want to read this.

http://www.islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=6826

Wasalaam

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[Muslim First]

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BR.QIYAM

Total Lunar eclipse tomorrow. Make ure to stay inside the house.

Wasalaam

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