Haqiqi Qibla?

[Average Bohra]

Anajmi / MF,

I am curious, why do Wahabis have a hard on against raising and racing horses, while raising and racing camels is considerd tradition ?

[pardesi]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
.
"Turbo
Look why are we having this discussion
We had this racing discussion with other Ismailies about 4 times."

Good excuse MF. Then you bring up the following list of whata "good" muslim has to do which has also been discussed gazillion times on this board.

"Your MHI being noor ala noor (God on Earth) on this earth can do anything he wants."

Noorun ala Noor is part of an Ayat in Quran and mistranslating is a grave sin. You proved yourself to be a munafiq right there.

"As far as Muslim is concerned a good Muslim has to pray 5 time as close to Prophetic way as possible."

as close to Prophetic way as possible? I see you created a loophole for you and your cronies. MF dont you get tired of being wrong? You will face the Creator, you know! And what about those "muslims" who do not pray 5 times? Are they not good muslims? Their business is with Allah and not YOU MF.

"He has to fast in Ramadan."

A lot of Ismailis fast. We dont go out and yell in public that "I am fasting". A lot of "muslims" dont fast. What do you say about them?

"He has to give Zakat."

How many of your so called good muslims pay Zakat that is truely due? Atleast Ismailis pay what they are supposed to and then some.

"He has to do Hujj once in life time."

If certain conditions are met. Am I right?

"He does not do all the ceremoney described on Ismaili.net bacause for him they are Bida (Innovation)."

Using Computers and chat rooms are bida also, I believe.

"Anybody who does not do Salat, Roza or Hujj has taken himself out of Islam."

Are you sure about this fatwa of yours? The total population of muslims on this earth will shrink drastically if you applied that theory. There is no way for one to know who is and who isn't. That is why Allah has Akhirat in waiting. Dont you worry about others. Find the faults within yourself and correct them.

"End of discussion."

You're darn right!

"You would be better off doing your Dua and Bandagi."

We never say that we are better off because we do dua and bandagi. We are just as "adna" creation of God as anyone else is.

"Have a good day."

You do the same my brother. Peace.
.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:
turbonut,

The blame for the state of these children is a direct result of the apathy of the Hazar Imam. If the true Imam, the true descendent of Hazrat Ali had been worried about these children, he would've done something for them. It is the duty of the Amirul Mumineen to show light to these lost people. Why is he more interested in raising good horses than good muslims?

Oh Phaleeez Anajmi. Aap to kamaal karte ho. Blame the current state of the Ummah on someone else. He does more for muslims then all of YOUR ameerul momineens combined. Its a different thing when you look the other way. But it does not change the fact what and how much he and his family has done for muslim cause. Education is a must for these children but your Ulema consider "rattafication" of Quran the only necessary education for these kids. I would'nt be surprised if that was your picture with your kids. And who in the hell would hand their 6 or 7 year olds a dagger like that, albeit fake.

By the way Anajmi how is your research going one - you know the one where you would be creating a "qibla compass". I read somewhere that there are around 7000 people working under you under the "sarparasti" of your Wahabi masters. Your time will be better served there.

Raising good horses for racing is his family tradition which started all the way back in the days of the Prophet by the holy prophet himself. You got a problem with that too? Oh by the way, your Ameerul Momineens, the Wahabi sheikhs, also race horses and who knows if they bet also or not. Atleast my Imam does not bet.

Besides, how was Eid? Family OK?

Try to be a good muslim, please.

[Safiuddin]

What a bunch of pathetic, finger-pointing, losers you all are.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by Safiuddin:
What a bunch of pathetic, finger-pointing, losers you all are.

Safi bhai, welcome. You just pointed finger at us

Welcome aboard.

[anajmi]

Average,

I get a hard on for Average Morons and Ismailis too.

[Muslim First]

.
Turbo and Pardesi
GM and Greetings.

In his speech, His Highness the Aga Khan at the Inauguration of the Ismaili Jamatkhana and Center, Houston, June 23, 2002 said;

” the word of the Quran is the word of God”

Now it is clear for all you Ismailis that word of Qur’an in word of God as per above FARMAN.

It is obligatory on all of you including your MHI MAA BAAP to obey Qur’an without any changes.

When Qur’an says no Gambling or Alcohol then your Maa Baap should refrain from racing horses at race courses where betting takes place and should own no businesses which deals in alcohol.

When Qur’an says a Muslim should not marry their daughters and sisters to non Muslims then he should obey.

Prophet SAW Said;

Islam is based on five things; the testimony that ”there is no God except allah and Muhammad is Allah’s Messenger’, the establishment of Salah, the fasting of Ramadan, the payment of Zakah and performance of Hajj.

Related by Ibn Umar and recorded in Bukhari and Muslim.

Now no Imam, Khalifa, King, Maula, Mulla, Hizir of Gaib Imam or his Dai can change this requirement to be Muslim.

Any leader who changes this takes his followers out of Islam and establishes new religion.

Enough of this discussion.

I am curious, why do Wahabis have a hard on against raising and racing horses, while raising and racing camels is considerd tradition ?

Racing and breeding horses are permitted in Islam as hoby of sport. Propblem comes when they are used for Gambling. Betting on Horses or camels of cars or sport games is no no in Islam.
Racing camels is also no no. If any Arab leaders are doing it then they are promoting unIslamic activity.

Wasalaam
.

Myself and other fellow Muslims in my office do not participate in baseball or football pool bacause it is gambling.

[Muslim First]

He does more for muslims then all of YOUR ameerul momineens combined. Its a different

Please Pardesi

Do you realse how many small and large charities do God's work silentley without tooting their Horn like Agakhanis.

Let's be sensible.

Have a good day
.

[Muslim First]

.
Correction
Do you realize how many small and large charities do God's work silently without tooting their Horn like Agakhanis.
.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

Actually there can be only one true Amirul Mumineen. And if according to you, he is the Hazar Imam, then you should not be comparing him to other fake Amirul Mumineens. It doesn't matter what they do or don't do. They won't be held responsible for the state of the muslim ummah. The true Amirul Mumineen will have to answer. He will have to answer for every muslim that committed murder and mayhem and killed innocents. He cannot race horses and not care about the state of the muslims. He is on earth to show direction to all muslims and not just a select few. Remember, even a corrupt politician takes care of his own. An Amirul Mumineen is supposed to take care of those that suffer the most and according to some Ismaili horses on this board, muslims are in a state which is far worse than any other community on earth. All the blame has to lie with the Hazar Imam.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
.
Turbo and Pardesi
GM and Greetings.

In his speech, His Highness the Aga Khan at the Inauguration of the Ismaili Jamatkhana and Center, Houston, June 23, 2002 said;

” the word of the Quran is the word of God”

Now it is clear for all you Ismailis that word of Qur’an in word of God as per above FARMAN.

It is obligatory on all of you including your MHI MAA BAAP to obey Qur’an without any changes.

When Qur’an says no Gambling or Alcohol then your Maa Baap should refrain from racing horses at race courses where betting takes place and should own no businesses which deals in alcohol.

When Qur’an says a Muslim should not marry their daughters and sisters to non Muslims then he should obey.

Prophet SAW Said;

Islam is based on five things; the testimony that ”there is no God except allah and Muhammad is Allah’s Messenger’, the establishment of Salah, the fasting of Ramadan, the payment of Zakah and performance of Hajj.

Related by Ibn Umar and recorded in Bukhari and Muslim.

Now no Imam, Khalifa, King, Maula, Mulla, Hizir of Gaib Imam or his Dai can change this requirement to be Muslim.

Any leader who changes this takes his followers out of Islam and establishes new religion.

Enough of this discussion.

I am curious, why do Wahabis have a hard on against raising and racing horses, while raising and racing camels is considerd tradition ?

Racing and breeding horses are permitted in Islam as hoby of sport. Propblem comes when they are used for Gambling. Betting on Horses or camels of cars or sport games is no no in Islam.
Racing camels is also no no. If any Arab leaders are doing it then they are promoting unIslamic activity.

Wasalaam
.

Myself and other fellow Muslims in my office do not participate in baseball or football pool bacause it is gambling.

Dear Dummy Number 1,
enough of your lies, and more lies, and more.......give us a break from your wahabbi vomit. dont quote out of context it is "un-scholarly". here is the excerpt of the speech.....

Nine eleven has scarred America, but not just America. It has scarred the Islamic world, and hundreds of millions of devout and practicing Muslims for whom the word of the Quran is the word of God. We have clarity and direction enough when the Quran affirms that to save a life is, as if, to save humankind altogether.

As i have told you earlier, dummies like the wahabbis cannot comprehend that we are living in the 21st century. We used to do a lot of things that were relevant at those times, not anymore........ tell me is it okay to abuse your wife? skeptics will right away invoke The Holy Quran 4:34. now is it relevant today? i dont know your household but hitting is never condoned in societies at large, that too justifying by the quran.
Therefore as i have said, our living Imam is the sole interpreter of the Holy book as it is relevant TODAY!!! not the middle ages. You guys can never understand that as you have been brainwashed by your local thugs who would not flinch at poking a knife through your heart, and then fast, pray 5 times daily and eat HALAL!!
Have a very good "blast" of a day!!
Turbonut

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by anajmi:
pardesi,

Actually there can be only one true Amirul Mumineen. And if according to you, he is the Hazar Imam, then you should not be comparing him to other fake Amirul Mumineens. It doesn't matter what they do or don't do. They won't be held responsible for the state of the muslim ummah. The true Amirul Mumineen will have to answer. He will have to answer for every muslim that committed murder and mayhem and killed innocents. He cannot race horses and not care about the state of the muslims. He is on earth to show direction to all muslims and not just a select few. Remember, even a corrupt politician takes care of his own. An Amirul Mumineen is supposed to take care of those that suffer the most and according to some Ismaili horses on this board, muslims are in a state which is far worse than any other community on earth. All the blame has to lie with the Hazar Imam.

Dear Dumb and Dumber,
The problem lies here.....

This year Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.
Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10
countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.

Go seek revelation from your wahabbi thug. THAT is what the enemies of Islam really crave. But you idiots are too stupid to understand that.

<small>[ October 19, 2007, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>

[Muslim First]

.
Turbo
I have not called you names.
If you can't be civil
Lets end it here.
Qur'an and Commands of Prophet are foreever. Nobody can change it.

What is wrong with Salah as it is?
Why substitute Dua for it.
Please respnd if you can in a civil manner.
.

[anajmi]

turbonut,

Again, as I've said before and will keep repeating, the entire blame for these unfortunate events and acts of these crazy muslims, lies with the Hazar Imam of the time, who in this case is HH Aga Khan. He has failed to show the light to most muslims. He has failed in his duty to lead the muslim ummah on the right path. Either he is incompetent and not suitable to be the Amirul Mumineen of the muslim ummah or he is a fake. Either way, it is time to start looking for a new Amir.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

He does more for muslims then all of YOUR ameerul momineens combined. Its a different

Please Pardesi

Do you realse how many small and large charities do God's work silentley without tooting their Horn like Agakhanis.

Let's be sensible.

.

"Let's be sensible"? Coming from you of all the people surprises me. When you drag us into comparing my Imam and his institutions with those of your Ameerul Momineens/Aqa/Masters you want us to be sensible.

When it comes to silent donors there are hundreds and thousands in every community who do the charity work not to mention Ismailis but we do not brag about that.

We were talking about services of one single person towards Islam in general and muslims in particular who you refuse accept and acknowledge. There is no comparison here as to who pays how much. I brought it up because I wanted to shine the light in your face which prefers to be in the dark.

More soon.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:
pardesi,

Actually there can be only one true Amirul Mumineen. And if according to you, he is the Hazar Imam, then you should not be comparing him to other fake Amirul Mumineens. It doesn't matter what they do or don't do. They won't be held responsible for the state of the muslim ummah. The true Amirul Mumineen will have to answer. He will have to answer for every muslim that committed murder and mayhem and killed innocents. He cannot race horses and not care about the state of the muslims. He is on earth to show direction to all muslims and not just a select few. Remember, even a corrupt politician takes care of his own. An Amirul Mumineen is supposed to take care of those that suffer the most and according to some Ismaili horses on this board, muslims are in a state which is far worse than any other community on earth. All the blame has to lie with the Hazar Imam.

Anajmi, I do not even know where to start answering your childish post above. I can not believe a person as intelligent as you would come up with a post like that. Sounds like you are beating around the bush. The Aga Khan and his institutions do not only take care of the Ismailis, actually a very large portion of grants go to poor people irrespective of race, religion, gender etc.

If you believe he needs to do better than what he has been able to do then why not join hands and offer your help as well. Or atleast do some charity work on your own. Now don't tell me you already do that because I will call you a liar.

He can not and will not act as YOUR ameerul momineen so long as you oppose every effort he makes for the betterment of public.

As for you comment "He cannot race horses and not care about the state of the muslims". What can I say brother. Your ignorance deserves an award.

Your comment: "Remember, even a corrupt politician takes care of his own".

I answered that earlier. My Imam's institutions do not look at someones race, color, religion, eithnicity etc. Now the corrupt politicians do take care of their own and ONLY THEIR OWN. I am glad you said something right about your Ameerul momineens.

Later dude.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:
turbonut,

Either he is incompetent and not suitable to be the Amirul Mumineen of the muslim ummah or he is a fake. Either way, it is time to start looking for a new Amir.

Could you suggest a few competent and suitable names. This reminds me of the Prophet's time when he first declared prophecy and was opposed by people like you. Was the Prophet able to convert all the christians and jews to Islam? Would you call him incompetent? Will the prophet of Islam be asked for the state of Christians and Jews and will he be blamed for it? If the answer is yes then would you also blame the Prophet for the current state of muslims.

[accountability]

admin: do you allow those kind of pictures and hate mongering on this board?

[jawanmardan]

Originally posted by anajmi:
turbonut,

Again, as I've said before and will keep repeating, the entire blame for these unfortunate events and acts of these crazy muslims, lies with the Hazar Imam of the time, who in this case is HH Aga Khan. He has failed to show the light to most muslims. He has failed in his duty to lead the muslim ummah on the right path. Either he is incompetent and not suitable to be the Amirul Mumineen of the muslim ummah or he is a fake. Either way, it is time to start looking for a new Amir.

anajmi should we carry your argument to It’s logical conclusion? And conclude the Prophet is also a failure, since most of the world is not Muslim, because Muslims are if taken as a civilization rank amongst the most illiterate, backward, misogynistic, homophobic, suffer human rights abuses on an unprecedented scale, and make up the largest group of refugees on the planet.

Does critical thinking ever come into the equation when you choose to “argue” or is it all renal failure of the mouth.

Truely Pathetic (sigh)

[anajmi]

pardesi,

I have a few names in mind. But that is besides the point. We need to first figure out if we have to replace the current Imam. I am not concerned with Jews and Christians. I am only concerned with the Muslim Ummah. His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan is the true Imam of the Muslim Ummah. He is the true descendent of Hazrat Ali. He is the only one responsible for the state of the Muslim Ummah. The muslims are in bad state, as per the posts of some other Ismaili brothers. Why are these Muslims in a bad state? It is because their ultimate leader, Amirul Mumineen His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan has been ineffective in improving the state of the muslim ummah. He is also a failure because he has been unable to convert more than 99.99999999% of the world to the true Islam which is the Ismaili Islam.

As our logical Ismaili brother jawanmardan suggested (in english and not latin simply for the sake of the illiterate and uneducated on this board), muslims rank amongst the most illiterate, backward, misogynistic, homophobic, suffer human rights abuses on an unprecedented scale, and make up the largest group of refugees on the planet. Whose fault is that? That is the fault of the leader of the muslim Ummah. That is the fault of the Amirul Mumineen. That is the fault of the Hazar Imam. Period.

[anajmi]

According to wikipedia, "renal" is a latin word. I guess some educated morons will never learn.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
.
Turbo
I have not called you names.
If you can't be civil
Lets end it here.
Qur'an and Commands of Prophet are foreever. Nobody can change it.

What is wrong with Salah as it is?
Why substitute Dua for it.
Please respnd if you can in a civil manner.
.

Daer Muslim First, i apologise to you if i have hurt your feelings, when you have never called me names. Du'a has been prescribed by our Hazer Imam to conform it to the modern ages for us Ismailis. Our Hazer Imam has the sole and absolute authority to do so. If it is too much for others to fathom, then tough luck. But no one has the God given authority to challenge our tenets and beliefs. Like i said rather than dwell hatred in your hearts,envy and jealousy.You need to respect other faiths. Our faith of Islam is not of hate it is of love and brotherhood. Our Imam does not preach hatred towards any sects or communities. For us at the Jamatkhana is we mind our own business and are being told to remain loyal and faithful to our countries we live in, stay law abiding. But was very dissapointed when i was told by a Sunni brother that there was some sort of "laanat" utterd by the Maulvi at the masjid against the "Kufr" that is Shias, Qadianis and Ismailies. This is heart breaking.
I hope you find my answer satisfactory, however i do not expect you to understand as you will again find something wrong because it does not "conform" with your brand of Islam. Come out of your dark ages, the world is beautiful, experience the splendour of diversity and learn to appreciate and respect others as we all are children of one God. Think for one minute. The hatred that you have against other communities must have its origin somewhere. I dont mean to disrespect your family, but in majority of instances, the hatred is inherited as it is in Racism and other hate. OR it is from the pulpit. THESE my friend, are the true enemies of Islam, IT is exactly the kind of example the world is fed in their daily lives.
The other day when i was discussing hospital isues with a Canadian colleague in Toronto, i told him about the great Ismaili discoverers, Avicenna(Abu Ali Sinna) and Ibn Al Haitham, he could not believe these were great Muslims, however he knew who Mohammed Atta and Osama Bin laden was!! With this i will end my dispute with you..........

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
Surah al-Hujurat (49:13)

May you find serenity , love and peace in your lifetime.AMEN

Turbo

[ponga bhori]

I agree to a very great extent with Turbo (the nut). If we were to go the Taliban way.....a people nation is destroyed.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:
[QB]pardesi,

I have a few names in mind. But that is besides the point. We need to first figure out if we have to replace the current Imam.QB]

I did not want to respond to your last post part of which I quoted above. Really, there is no way in the world I could even begin to respond. But I will still try.

"I have a few names in mind. But that is besides the point."

Anajmi that is not besides the point. Actually that was exactly the point I was trying to make. Name a few alternatives fit to be Ameerul Momineen. How is it besides the point.

"We need to first figure out if we have to replace the current Imam."

Imam is never elected by general population. He is appointed. Imamat is not a political office. You are confusing it with Khilafat. Therefore an Imam, as believed by all Shias, is appointed by Allah himself. Replacing an Imam is not humanly possible. You either believe in him or you don't.

If you really want to discuss Imamat I suggest you do some homework. Imam for you is a prayer leader in a mosque, brainwashed and trained to be just that and having no knowledge of the outside world.

The rest of the garbage in your post does not deserve a reply.

[pardesi]

I apologize for the last sentence in my last post. Actually any garbage from Anajmi deserves some sort of reply. In this case I will quote an ayat from the Quran:

[13:11] .... Lo! Allah changeth not the condition of a folk until they (first) change that which is in their hearts; and if Allah willeth misfortune for a folk there is none that can repel it, nor have they a defender beside Him.

There! Now do you still blame the Aga Khan for the condition of muslim Ummah, specially when they do not even consider him a muslim, let alone their Imam?

Who better to respond to ignorant people than Allah Himself.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

Imam is never elected by general population. He is appointed. Imamat is not a political office. You are confusing it with Khilafat. Therefore an Imam, as believed by all Shias, is appointed by Allah himself. Replacing an Imam is not humanly possible. You either believe in him or you don't.

Then I guess the Muslim Ummah is well and truly screwed. With a worthless Amirul Mumineed that cannot be replaced, one who is more interested in breeding good horses than good muslims, how will the state of the Muslim Ummah improve?

One other question, if according to the quran, a muslim has to change himself before Allah will help him, what the hell do we need this Amirul Mumineen for? Why did Allah promise to always have an Imam stationed on earth for the sake of the Muslim Ummah? I think it was for a reason. It was to show the Muslim Ummah the correct path. Today the state of the muslims is so bad that the Amirul Mumineen has to held responsible. Muslims are the most uneducated, backward, refugerated people on earth. The entire blame lies with their leaders and their ultimate leader is the Amirul Mumineen His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan. Period.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:

Then I guess the Muslim Ummah is well and truly screwed. With a worthless Amirul Mumineed that cannot be replaced, one who is more interested in breeding good horses than good muslims, how will the state of the Muslim Ummah improve?
QB]

Just imagine what life would be "without" this worthless Ameerul Momineen. Ask the ones in whose life the Aga Khan network has been able to make a difference in.

Lets look at the situation hypothetically.

The state of muslim Ummah is at the center of our discussion not the Aga Khan. The Ummah is divided into two parts - one lot consists of poor, uneducated, mislead, misrepresented, left to rot, thanks to your Mullah system. The other consists of educated, well off/rich, moderate, somewhat enlightened and considered an asset. Now if you consider the Aga Khan the true Imam, which I know you would never, and hold him responsible for the condition of the first lot which has no hope in sight, then the Aga Khan has failed. But look at the flip side of the coin - Would you not give credit to him for the other lot which is educated, rich, able to help the others, enlightened and able to act as productive members of the society.

Your question: "if according to the quran, a muslim has to change himself before Allah will help him, what the hell do we need this Amirul Mumineen for?"

Are you actually questioning the word of Allah? You have completely lost it Anajmi. What would you call me if I had posted that comment? I am sure you and MF would be knocking at my door before I finished posting making my life miserable.

You need to direct your objections to Allah. Only He can help your poor soul.

I think I am done making point after point but you refuse to screw your head between your shoulders correctly hence nothing is getting thru to you.

You may have the last say. Let others get back to the actual topic "Haqiqi Qibla".

Salaams.

[anajmi]

The majority of the ummah - according to statistics provided by some other Ismaili brother, falls under the category of the poor, uneducated, mislead, misrepresented, left to rot. Only a few are well off and well to do. That means the leadership has failed. The leaders are supposed to care for those that fall under the first category. The rich can help themselves. As I told you before, even a corrupt politician takes care of his own. Is Aga Khan a corrupt politician who takes care of the rich and the famous or is he the Amirul Mumineen who is supposed to help those that need help most? I think instead of blaming others for the state of the muslim ummah we should start blaming those that were actually assigned the job of uplifting the ummah and have failed miserable. The mullahs are not appointed by Allah, the Amirul Mumineen His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan is. He is the one responsible. He is the one that has failed the Muslim Ummah.

[jawanmardan]

Enlightened Muslims, whether Shia, Sunni, Isma’ili, or Sufi etal. will go on doing what they have always done; which to adhere to the fundamental essence of our faith, live peacefully, reflect spiritually, contribute to the betterment of all humanity regardless of gender or race, and care for our environment. I believe we are the majority, and by the common sense argument we represent.

love and light

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

I agree with you that majority of the muslims are enlightened and in that group, if you look hard enough, you will find a tiny percentage of Ismailis too.

However I also agree with you when you say,

because Muslims are if taken as a civilization rank amongst the most illiterate, backward, misogynistic, homophobic, suffer human rights abuses on an unprecedented scale, and make up the largest group of refugees on the planet.

And I blame this on the Amirul Mumineen His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan.