Henceforth Dais without "Nass" will rule us?

[profrog]

Then why are comparing his lifestyle with that of moula ali sa, that is allowed but when it comes to imams not allowed .
As for hunting show me with proof where it says that its not allowed.
According to you he is a lowly dai (nauzubillah) then why are giving him your hard earned money do not do it and then stop complaining.why are you worried about others you stop first.
As for insaap(aalim) check your history what they usurpers and some of their children did to panjatan after rasullahs death then complain about the laanats or gaalis or whatever

[profrog]

Then why are comparing his lifestyle with that of moula ali sa, that is allowed but when it comes to imams not allowed .
As for hunting show me with proof where it says that its not allowed.
According to you he is a lowly dai (nauzubillah) then why are giving him your hard earned money do not do it and then stop complaining.why are you worried about others you stop first.
As for insaap(aalim) check your history what they usurpers and some of their children did to panjatan after rasullahs death then complain about the laanats or gaalis or whatever.tell insaap to come clean about this,are they hazrats or not according to him

[Maqbool]

Profrog Says:
“As for hunting show me with proof where it says that its not allowed.”

I do not know about Quran but I do no that Sayedna does not like Killing of Animal.

The following is a cut and paste from http://www.burhani.org/tiger/index.htm

“The king is dying
The magnificent tiger might exist only in the storybooks of the future. A legend for our children. A skeleton for our museums. With the Tiger gone, the forests that it once ruled will also be gone. There were 100,000 tigers roaming the wild at the beginning of the century. There are only 5000 tigers in the wild today and a few more in captivity. Poachers have mercilessly hunted down the tiger for many reasons. Tiger skin used for coats and other leather products is highly priced today. Chinese medicine supposes that tiger bones contain curative and aphrodisiac properties and many tigers are still being hunted down for this perverted purpose.”

There are much more then this in the site of Burhani Foundation. Now tell me profrog why this hypocrisy. It will not be out of place to remind readers that this organization is run with the advice of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb.

[profrog]

So what is stand on moula ali sa? Is he the succesor of rasullah or not,or do you believe he was the fourth khalifa as the sunnis,reply so the reformists also know your stand

[East Africawalla]

Its a simple yes or no, does Insafbhai think himself as a shia or sunni, thats a top level question, forget about asking him if he believes if he is a bohra?

[profrog]

The above post about shias was for insaap
but to tigers in whole article copy pasted where does it say syedna does not like hunting of tigers or for that matter even if what you say is true then show me once where a tiger has been hunter by syedna or any bohra

[Maqbool]

Frog,

Better you visit the site and understand the literal meaning of what they wants to say about environments and the wild life.

Just don’t jump in without understanding the aim. Please.

[ghulam muhammed]

And thanks for confirming the fact that insaaf or insaap is not a shia ,try for once to reply without abuses

It is Insafbhai's greatest achievement that he is not a shia but a Muslim and a follower of Islam and a believer of Rasul Allah s.a.w. and Moula Ali a.s. This useless blah blah about shias and sunnis...... tell me who was our Prophet s.a.w. and Moula Ali a.s. ? Which religion did they follow ? Did they at any point of time identify themselves as shias or sunnis ? Were they bohras or shias ? Did Rasul Allah s.a.w. give Fatimid daawat to the world or did He give daawat of Islam ? Why did Imam Hussain a.s. gave his life for ? Was the battle of karbala for shias/bohras or for Islam ? Is the deen of Allah swt shiasm or Islam ?

[Al Zulfiqar]

Its a simple yes or no, does Insafbhai think himself as a shia or sunni, thats a top level question, forget about asking him if he believes if he is a bohra?

and what are u?? before asking others about their beliefs, look under yr own dirty topi. u are a person with no religion except one mazhab; a syedna poojari and idol worshipper, who comes here only to sing his praises and ghanu jeevo ta qayamat b.s.

how many times did u say gaalis on the first 3 khalifas on yr syedna's milad today?

[East Africawalla]

rong again, i could not attend milad today but i can confirm to you that i m a shia muslim and a dawoodi bohra and believe in syedna as our dai

[Al Zulfiqar]

rong again, i could not attend milad today but i can confirm to you that i m a shia muslim and a dawoodi bohra and believe in syedna as our dai

a muslim who gives gaalis to the companions of the prophet ???

did not attend milad? jahannum ma jaavu chhe?

[S. Insaf]

The holy Prophet had said: "I am leaving behind Quran and Ahle-bayet. Hold them." Quran only talks of Muslims (not Sunni or Shia) and Ahle-bayet never claimed that they were Sunnis or Shias; they were Muslims pure and simple. That is why both Sunni and Shia Muslim believe in and have faith in Quran and Ahle-bayet. There is no dispute about them.
Sunni and Shia Islam emerged much later during Umayyad's rule. Imam Husain fought against Yazid not because he was a Sunni ruler and Imam husain was a Shia Imam. But because he was unjust, corrupt and tyrant Muslim ruler.
Islamic history confirms that Hazrat Ali had given oath to all three Khalifas before him and Imam Hasan and Imam Husain had given oath to Amir Maoviyah. This is a historical fact not any one's addition. Because then the whole fight was about right and wrong in Islam.
Islam came as a democratic revolution but it is unfortunate that during Umayyed's rule both Sunni and Shia Islam turned into hereditary establishment, son succeeding father both as ruler and as Imam.
It was due to political compulsion and had nothing to do with Islam as a religion.

[humble_servant_us]

Islamic history confirms that Hazrat Ali had given oath to all three Khalifas before him and Imam Hasan and Imam Husain had given oath to Amir Maoviyah. This is a historical fact not any one's addition

I don't think your history is correct. First of all "oath" is not a correct word. There was a treaty(agreement) signed by I. hasan (as) and Muawiya. Now i leave it to you to study the agreement to understand what was it all about.

When you study the treaty you will understand that the conditions put by I. Hasan(as) were in complete accordance with quran and sunnah AND when you sign a treaty with a Unjust ruler it Doesn't mean you support him. Likewise I.Ali(as)'s silence during the 3-Khalifas does not mean he acknowledged them. It was an act of great patience and sacrifice to save Islam from collapsing and so is history of other Imams.

Br. Insaf , to justify your arguments against the wrongs of present dai and his activities please do not distort the history

[East Africawalla]

I AGREE WITH HS on this one , Insaf your justification are from wrong history books ,Insafbhai you are not not only upseting Mainstream Bohras but shias as well, your popularity (whatever minimum you have) is dwindling

[S. Insaf]

I have used the word “Oath” for Arabic word Bay’at (pledge of allegiance). I have not confused it with the treaty (peace document) signed between Imam Hasan and Moaviyah.
Both Imam Hasan and Imam Husain had given Bay’at to Amir Moaviyah that is though shocking but the historical fact testified by the unbiased researchers, like Taha Husain and AAA Faizee. The oath and treaty were to avoid the bloodshed, as was explained by Imam Hasan. Their roles must be judged by the social, ideological and political developments of their time. Amir Moaviyah became quite ruthless after obtaining signed Treaty documents.
Later Imam Husain led down his life but did not give oath to Yazid who was appointed successor by his father going against the terms of the treaty with Imam Hasan and more so because Yazid was a man of un-Islamic character as he plunged himself into debauchery and loose entertainment.

[profrog]

Now finally we have it from the horses oh sorry snakes mouth that he believes moula ali sa was the fourth khalifa after the three,what happened about ghadire khum,what about saqifa,what about zulms on ahle bayt by this three.let alone a dawoodi bohra you are not fit to be even a reformist bohra,do the reformists support you?
nowhere in history of shia is it witten that moula ali sa or imam hassan sa gave oaths to anybody,even imamhussein left madina at night without giving oath to anybody.
In your previous posts in which you have knowledgebly quoted all names of known dawat kitabs which are thought at jaamea go and read them before making this stupid blunders which show that you indeed are snake even when alive let alone later on
in fact tell engineer to come on this forum and support so all bohras know your stands

[East Africawalla]

My view it was a peace treaty more than oath, oath meant you accept his religious leadership which Mowlana Ali or IMAM Hassan would have done, i think the treaty was done more due to poilitical circumtances

[Al-Muizz]

Why are we calling the thug Muawiyah and his thug son Yezid-God's curse on these two imbeciles-"Amir Muawiyah"? What next, should we call Yezid L.A., Caliph??

[ghulam muhammed]

Now finally we have it from the horses oh sorry snakes mouth that he believes moula ali sa was the fourth khalifa after the three,what happened about ghadire khum,

The stand of Shias was based on the conduct and sayings of Hazrat Ali himself. According to Nahjul Balaghah (the most authentic and revered book after Qur’an, in the eyes of Shias), when the leader of Bani Umaiyya, Abu Sufian made an offer of his support to Hazrat Ali for the Caliphate, he answered, “You had always been the enemy of Islam and Muslims but this could not harm Islam and the Muslims. WE CONSIDER ABU BAKR, WORTHY OF CALIPHATE. You ONLY WANT TO CREATE SEDITION”. (P.30, Nahajul Balaghah Vol. 3, quoted in Ashshi’atu Wattashih by Dr. Musa Musavi)

On Hazrat Umar’s demise he expressed his praise in these words: “He straightened the disorders, treated the disease, left behind the sedition, established the Sunnah, passed away from the world with unblemished clothing and less evil, caught hold of virtues (of the world) and surpassed its evil. He abided by Allah and feared Him too...” (Nahajul Balaghah ; Sermon No. 225, published by Tublighate Imani Hind, Bombay)

About Caliphate, Bai’at and the opinion of majority of Ansaar and Muhajirin, his stand was: “Shura (membership of the advisory council) is the right of Ansaar and Muhajirin. If they agree over a person and name him Imam, therein lies the Will of Allah. If now a person withdraws from it (allegiance to Imam named by Ansaar and Muhajirin) for a blame or Bid’at, he will be brought back to its fold. If he refuses to join back then war shall be declared against him for going against the way of Muslims”. (Nahajul Balaghah, Vol.3, letter no. 6 written to Ameer Mu’awia Bin Abu Sufian.)

It is clear from the above sayings of Hazrat Ali that he did not consider Imamat, a direct divine appointment as present day Shias believe. On his personal relations with Hazrat Abu Bakar and Umar and Usman, it is sufficient to mention that he gave one of his daughters Umme Kulsoom in marriage to Hazrat Umar and named three of his sons, Abu Bakar, Umar and Usman.

[Al-Muizz]

On the occasion of the Consultative Committee Sa`d ibn Abi Waqqas repeated to Amir al-mu'minin what Caliph `Umar had said in his last hours namely that "O' `Ali, you are very greedy for the position of caliphate," and `Ali replied that, "He who demands his own right cannot be called greedy; rather greedy is he who prevents the securing of the right and tries to grab it despite being unfit for it."

Nahjul Balagha, Al-Tabari, Ibn Abil Hadid

There is no doubt that Amir al-mu'minin considered the Caliphate to be his right, and demanded his right.

Hmmm, where are you getting all this crap about Moula Ali "accepting" the three unfit so-called caliphs??? I am an American, born and bred, and I love-repeat LOVE-my country...you know why, because we have EDUCATION. We are not blinded by your shallow so-called intellect. My light is ALWAYS the search for the TRUTH....not being carried away by the f##king Wahabis!

[SBM]

Hmmm, where are you getting all this crap about Moula Ali "accepting" the three unfit so-called caliphs??? I am an American, born and bred, and I love-repeat LOVE-my country...you know why, because we have EDUCATION. We are not blinded by your shallow so-called intellect. My light is ALWAYS the search for the TRUTH....not being carried away by the f##king Wahabis!

Al-Muizz

If you are an American breed and so educated can you enlighten about Current Syedna's mother and find out where is she buried and why no mention of her> THAT SHOULD BE PART OF YOUR EDUCATION SINCE AMERICANS ALWAYS LOVE INQUISITION AND YOU SHOULD NOW DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT TOPIC AND REPORT BACK AND PROVE TO THE REST THAT YES IN AMERICA YOU DO THE RESEARCH AND SEPARATE TRUTH FROM GOSSIP? can you?

[East Africawalla]

I think from the thread its definate that GM, Insaf etc are closet wahabbis , they should not be the progressives authority on Bohras issues

[ghulam muhammed]

In the field of Mahshar later, it is narrated that there are many from amongst us, the Ummah of the end times, who without feeling any shame, wave at the Prophet while claiming to be his Ummah. The honourable Prophet would only smile. May be smiling because of finding it amusing at seeing the behaviour of each one of them who earlier in their lives did want to follow the way that he showed, and now (in the hereafter) are suddenly claiming to be his Ummah. Nice try! Let’s see what they have been up to in their lifetimes:

Electing Another Prophet Casually

They do not want to follow Prophet Muhammad SAW, and not enough with that, they take the kafir laknatullah as their role models. They idolize them as if they could give the shafaat (intercession) on judgement day in the akhirat later. They follow blindly all that they do, wanting very much to be like them. Then follow them all the way into hell if you like them so much! Let’s see if you can ask for the shafaat from the people they idolized in the field of Mahshar later.

Not Wanting To Utter The Salawat For The Prophet

Not to say that the Prophet is in need of the blessings from their utterance of the salawat, but to give them the blessings instead, but they are arrogant. To give salawat just like that is of course out of the question, but they do not even want to say the salawat when hearing the name of the Prophet being mentioned. It is not every hour that they hear people mention the Prophet’s name, even once a day is also not a guarantee and even that is hard for them to lift a tongue and say the salawat. It’s not asking them to do a “summersault” or something...

Not Knowing The Prophet’s Companions

If the Prophet himself is not respected, do we expect them to respect the sahabahs?. They say, “What’s so great about them other than being promised paradise?” Well, are they themselves confirmed enough to enter paradise? They consider themselves to have become at the same level as the sahabahs perhaps? Only that they are living in a different era. Well, they are also Muhammad’s companions anyway… Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Osman or Muhammad Yusuf that is!...

[S. Insaf]

I request my friends on the other side of the fence to once again read the text of apology written by non other than the Ad-Dai-ul-Fatimi, Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb to general Sunni Muslims:-

In the name of Allah the beneficial the merciful
Alhamdu-lillahe rabbil-aalemeen. Va sallallahe ala Muhammed Sayedul Mursaleen va Khatimin Nabieen. va aala Hazrata va Sahebul ajmaeen.

This is in keeping the prestige of Islam and the unity, brotherhood and traditions of Islamic nation in mind, for which our virtuous predecessors had made constant efforts. The few words that I uttered on 22, August 1988 have hurt the religious feeling and faith of Sunni Muslims; I express my apology for the same.
I have always tried that in spite of differences in belief and faith the mutual relations and love with each other should prevail. It is because we have faith that the Muslims are united on the basis of the kalma that “There is no god but there is Allah".
Last evening (due to my hurting utterances) the displeasing situation that has been created, has weaken the mutual relations in Islamic nation. It is in benefit of all of us that we forget this bitterness and as usual embrace each other with trust and love.
I pray to God, the honour-Giver that may He lead us on right path and enhance the image of religion of Islam.

Ad-Dai-ul-Fatimi
Mohammed Burhanuddin Saturday - 3 Sept. 1988

Please note the words “unity, brotherhood and traditions of Islamic nation in mind, for which our virtuous predecessors had made constant efforts” and “I have always tried that in spite of differences in belief and faith the mutual relations and love with each other should prevail” and “It is in benefit of all of us that we forget this bitterness and as usual embrace each other with trust and love.”
Trust and Love are the most important elements in any relationship and where trust and love prevails there is no place for hatred.

Sayedna Saheb has said that “we have faith that the Muslims are united on the basis of the kalma that “There is no god but there is Allah". That is Islam as Religion based on Quranic teachings. The “differences in belief and faith” is due to Historical situations.

Again as Goethe has pointed out that “Every thing that history offers us has not actually happened. What has happened is not presented the way it has happened. The historians can have no more information about the past events than what has been handed down. There is no means to penetrate to original source. If historical truth could be demonstrated like mathematical truth, all differences would disappear. As long as that can not be done the differences will remain. “Religion belongs to basically Spiritual and Moral spheres of life but the history is an outcome of interplay of several factors, human ambitions, personal interests, political aspirations and individual belief and convictions.

Today if a historian would try to pen down the history of our last two Dais just imagine the confusion he would face as a lot has been written for and against them.

I am sorry to say that from that unpleasant incident of showering curses the leaders of community have learnt a lesson but their followers have not.

[profrog]

Hey mr snake first come on what your beliefs are.we do not want to know what the sunnis or shias believe,we are talking about you personally. Are you a shia believing moula ali sa was succesor of rasullah sa or are a sunni believing he was no 4 after the three, because all refomists are supposed to be ex-bohras so shias what are you?

[profrog]

Hey mr snake first come on clean what your beliefs are.we do not want to know what the sunnis or shias believe,we are talking about you personally. Are you a shia believing moula ali sa was succesor of rasullah sa or are a sunni believing he was no 4 after the three, because all refomists are supposed to be ex-bohras so shias what are you? Make a stand and let it be known

[profrog]

Hey mr snake first come on clean what your beliefs are.we do not want to know what the sunnis or shias believe,we are talking about you personally. Are you a shia believing moula ali sa was succesor of rasullah sa or are a sunni believing he was no 4 after the three, because all refomists are supposed to be ex-bohras so shias what are you? Make a stand and let it be known

[voice]

Regarding the difference between following Hazrat Ali as 1st or 4th, I`ll suggest that don`t indulge in number game. Important issue is that how much one follows the teachings of Hazrat Ali .

I strongly believe that Hazrat Ali has not propogated any new religion, he sacrificed his whole life implementing the teachings of Quran and Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). Now forget the number game and follow his same path. It might be that a follower of 4th number may exceed in implementing his path and turn out to be his true follower rather than HYPOCRARTES.

Need of hour is that we should work for unity of Ummah and I`ll advice everyone to read " MASLAK E AITDAL" ( Hazrat Ali ke akwal ki roshni mey) by Prominent Shia scholar Dr. Moosa MUsawi. Its a great work for the same cause and will sort of differences if implemented, inshaAllah.

[SBM]

Admin
Please clean up the garbage from Froggy, he has same posting three times and it is done on purpose
just like Mubarak had personal grudge against Asgharali Engineer this member of animal kingdom Frog has personal grudge against Saifuddin Insaf and it should be stopped
One does not have to prove anything to these full fried brain abdes. Please edit theses personal attacks on any members of this board
Questioning Syedna and his Goons is of public domain since they are taking community's money and representing themselves as the leader of community. They are (Dawat-e-Hadiyah)is also a NON PROFIT 501 (C)3 in USA and their activities are to be scrutinized and questioned just like one does in USA(Unless fried brain surgeon Al-Muizz, the American educated has learned something different in Houston Jamiya) Most of the Evangelical Christian leaders were exposed for their illicit behavior and as was Catholic Church.

[profrog]

There is a very big difference between 1 and 4 and insaaf should declare his stand,this is a snake who uses the holy name of rasullah sa and moula ali sa when it suits him for his evil mischief,but he does not believe in nass done on moula ali sa by same rasullah.
According to insaap are the three usurpers or not,if not then he is not a shia
tell us insaap tell us