Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Now in most Bohras I do not find the fanatism and intolerance that existed in the period from 1960 to 1980.
I keep on meeting the Bohras on the other side of the fence and have realized that now most of them are fence-sitters looking at the power balance.
I am lucky that I have Amils in my family. Also I keep on meeting Amils and members of Sayedna Saheb’s family disclosing my identity as reformist and discussing the community matters with them.
Earlier it was dangerous to talk even among reformist friends why traveling in buses and trains in the presence of other Bohras. They immediately used to get exited and attack. But now even when I am alone I can talk to Bohras traveling with me. I also give them a copy of the Bohra Chronicle to read and if liked subscribe.
I have found that most of them are aware about the corruption in our religious establishment though they do not blame Sayedna Saheb for it. Many of them are sufferers. But they refuse to show any resistance even to Amils. Even the educated and independent professionals and influential Bohras and even those who hardly go to masjids and Jamatkhanas are frightened to come out in open.
That compels me to think “why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?”
Before I offer my analysis of the subject matter I wish to place here this topic for serious discussion.
Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Dear Insaf Bhai
That can be the question asked about MUSLIM UMMAH because few members of Al-Qaida and Talibans are terrorizing the 99% of the Muslim and Non Muslim community. That is the question asked by many Westerners why the majority of Muslims are afraid of these few extremists. It seems that in the name of religion these Muallahs they have taken command. Look at the election in Iran and the way it is handled by Aytullahs.
It is not only Bohras but the Muslims who have decided to stay on the fence and not get involved.
That can be the question asked about MUSLIM UMMAH because few members of Al-Qaida and Talibans are terrorizing the 99% of the Muslim and Non Muslim community. That is the question asked by many Westerners why the majority of Muslims are afraid of these few extremists. It seems that in the name of religion these Muallahs they have taken command. Look at the election in Iran and the way it is handled by Aytullahs.
It is not only Bohras but the Muslims who have decided to stay on the fence and not get involved.
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accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Insaf Bhai you have raised a very valid question. There could be a million answers or no answer. It is simple but very complex. why do we knowingly believe in something that is not true. The quest for truth in any religion is a lost cause. As soon as you ask a question and all hell will break loose.
Syedna saheb knows it well that he pocesses no miracle, all miracle attributed to him never happened. He knows that he is same and alike any other human being.He knows that he is not bestowed upon any power by god by which he could take his followers to heaven without accountability, yet he is promising something which he does not have. His health depends upon state of art german doctor's artisanship. Yet he allows his appointed amils and others to narrate what was not there. In everyone's conciousness he or she knows that there is no miracle ever to happen to any one. But in their sub concious their unsafe emotions tend them to believe in it. it is this insecurity of us inside that makes us to be bound. Syedna saheb's sons know that they are neither prince nor angels. Yet they behave so princely that even the real prince will feel inferior.
People bowing before them know it very well, that they are not special, they may even despise them for their royalty at their expense, but for unknown reasons they just robotically follow the rituals.
This fear of unknown is so strong and great that knowingly they are worshipping those idols, who are made by them, nourished by them, fed by them. It is very hard to get rid of fear of unknown. It is strong and binding. corruption is also sense of insecurity. It is hard to get rid of this yoke, but honest feelings, compassion and true love of god can help us shake off fear of unknown. But for this a little cleansing is required. Guilty concious is their weapon.
Syedna saheb knows it well that he pocesses no miracle, all miracle attributed to him never happened. He knows that he is same and alike any other human being.He knows that he is not bestowed upon any power by god by which he could take his followers to heaven without accountability, yet he is promising something which he does not have. His health depends upon state of art german doctor's artisanship. Yet he allows his appointed amils and others to narrate what was not there. In everyone's conciousness he or she knows that there is no miracle ever to happen to any one. But in their sub concious their unsafe emotions tend them to believe in it. it is this insecurity of us inside that makes us to be bound. Syedna saheb's sons know that they are neither prince nor angels. Yet they behave so princely that even the real prince will feel inferior.
People bowing before them know it very well, that they are not special, they may even despise them for their royalty at their expense, but for unknown reasons they just robotically follow the rituals.
This fear of unknown is so strong and great that knowingly they are worshipping those idols, who are made by them, nourished by them, fed by them. It is very hard to get rid of fear of unknown. It is strong and binding. corruption is also sense of insecurity. It is hard to get rid of this yoke, but honest feelings, compassion and true love of god can help us shake off fear of unknown. But for this a little cleansing is required. Guilty concious is their weapon.
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Aqa Moula_Zindabad
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Earlier it was dangerous to talk even among reformist friends why traveling in buses and trains in the presence of other Bohras. They immediately used to get exited and attack. But now even when I am alone I can talk to Bohras traveling with me. I also give them a copy of the Bohra Chronicle to read and if liked subscribe.
Oh!! it was u selling Bohra chronicle in the local train.....sorry i didn't recognised
i was wondering at all times that how u guys specially Mr.Insaaf might be earning ur living as u do nothing than writing dirt on this forum.....well now i know how u do
Oh!! it was u selling Bohra chronicle in the local train.....sorry i didn't recognised
i was wondering at all times that how u guys specially Mr.Insaaf might be earning ur living as u do nothing than writing dirt on this forum.....well now i know how u do
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Quote
was wondering at all times that how u guys specially Mr.Insaaf might be earning ur living
ZOMBIE at least he is not stealing from poor Bohras in big salaams and flying first class all over the world. Now since you saw him on the train now you know that Saif Insaf follows the same life style as that of Imam Ali who used to live simple life and did work to earn his own living unlike KOTHARIS who like BHAIS and MAFIA rob ZOMBIES like you.
Way to go S.INSAF
was wondering at all times that how u guys specially Mr.Insaaf might be earning ur living
ZOMBIE at least he is not stealing from poor Bohras in big salaams and flying first class all over the world. Now since you saw him on the train now you know that Saif Insaf follows the same life style as that of Imam Ali who used to live simple life and did work to earn his own living unlike KOTHARIS who like BHAIS and MAFIA rob ZOMBIES like you.
Way to go S.INSAF
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Omabharathi, pls dont compare S.insaf with Iman Ali.He might be for you but not for muslims!!!
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Omabharathi, pls dont compare S.insaf with Iman Ali.He might be for you but not for muslims!!!
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Dear Jayanti,
I find in most Bohra houses a frame hanging on wall which says "Live like Ali....". Being Ali is one thing and living like Ali is another. The other part "....die like Husain" is beyond compromising and comfort- loving Bohra Psychic. So lets not talk about it.
I find in most Bohra houses a frame hanging on wall which says "Live like Ali....". Being Ali is one thing and living like Ali is another. The other part "....die like Husain" is beyond compromising and comfort- loving Bohra Psychic. So lets not talk about it.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
But doing WADHWA to Syedna is like doing AARTI TO GANESH. So should I consider Syedna to be Ganeshjayanti wrote:Omabharathi, pls dont compare S.insaf with Iman Ali.He might be for you but not for muslims!!!
Thanks
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Jayanti Bhen
How come you have not responded yet to jungle999 regarding his meeting with Mukasir saheb in Saifee Mahal and he was of no help. (This is on different thread but since Jayanti Bhen ignored the other thread and replies here I just wanted to bring to her attention)
How come you have not responded yet to jungle999 regarding his meeting with Mukasir saheb in Saifee Mahal and he was of no help. (This is on different thread but since Jayanti Bhen ignored the other thread and replies here I just wanted to bring to her attention)
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ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Jayanti,jayanti wrote:Omabharathi, pls dont compare S.insaf with Iman Ali.He might be for you but not for muslims!!!
Please dont compare Burhanudin saab with Kaabatullah by calling him "haqiqi kaaba". He might be for people like you but not for muslims. And by the way why suddenly are you running for shelter in "Muslims" and not "Bohras", the ones you hate so much ? It is true that a chameleon changes colors very fast.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
So omabharathi u dont do WADHWA on your birthday so u are ganesh.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
a majority is always silent and meek in most societies .they need a spark to channalise their pent up rage and the feeling of being wronged.in a place like india where the justice delivery system is pathetic and where money and muscle power have their way it is but natural that a business comunity from gujrat would lack the guts to fight or even stand up to the rich and powerful
do the ordinary indians who fall victim to rape/murder/burglery/loss of property etc get justice? here when lumpen political units call a bandh we meekly down shutters.in case of bohras we dont have an alternate support system-someone to whom we can go when we are wronged and that aggravates our plight.
do the ordinary indians who fall victim to rape/murder/burglery/loss of property etc get justice? here when lumpen political units call a bandh we meekly down shutters.in case of bohras we dont have an alternate support system-someone to whom we can go when we are wronged and that aggravates our plight.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Dear Jayanti,
Please do not try to divert and be serious and discuss the topic "Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?" It is important because unless we find out the reasons of our being frightened and submissive and unless we speak up against the high-handedness of our priests, it is impossible to abolish the slave mentality and bring back the usefulness of Fatemi Dawat.
Democracy, accountability and transparency are very important to run an organization on just and beneficent manner.
In Democracy every one is allowed to participate in decision-making without fear.
Accountability demands that every single paisa taken from the community, willingly or unwillingly, must be accounted for and the public must be authorized to question without fear.
Transparency demands that all accounts and activities carried out must be transparent and justified and must be placed open for the public inspection.
Democracy, accountability and transparency were the key principles most vigorously followed by the holy Prophet of Islam and Hazrat Ali and when these principles were put on the back burner especially during Umayyads’ rule it caused the severe blow to the revolutionary mission of Islam and Khilafat (Caliphate) tuned in to Malukiyat (Monarchy) which we are witnessing today in our community.
So please realize that this topic is important to save our faith and our community.
Please do not try to divert and be serious and discuss the topic "Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?" It is important because unless we find out the reasons of our being frightened and submissive and unless we speak up against the high-handedness of our priests, it is impossible to abolish the slave mentality and bring back the usefulness of Fatemi Dawat.
Democracy, accountability and transparency are very important to run an organization on just and beneficent manner.
In Democracy every one is allowed to participate in decision-making without fear.
Accountability demands that every single paisa taken from the community, willingly or unwillingly, must be accounted for and the public must be authorized to question without fear.
Transparency demands that all accounts and activities carried out must be transparent and justified and must be placed open for the public inspection.
Democracy, accountability and transparency were the key principles most vigorously followed by the holy Prophet of Islam and Hazrat Ali and when these principles were put on the back burner especially during Umayyads’ rule it caused the severe blow to the revolutionary mission of Islam and Khilafat (Caliphate) tuned in to Malukiyat (Monarchy) which we are witnessing today in our community.
So please realize that this topic is important to save our faith and our community.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
1) Lack of understanding of Quran
2)Lack of understanding the teaching of Rasullalah (s.a)
3)lack of understanding Islam
4)lack of understanding the Dawoodi Bohra faith.
there may be more resons!!
2)Lack of understanding the teaching of Rasullalah (s.a)
3)lack of understanding Islam
4)lack of understanding the Dawoodi Bohra faith.
there may be more resons!!
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
saifuddinbhai insaf has thrown a hat in the ring to stir up a debate.
the answer is not very far to find. just look at an ordinary bohra. no matter how well-educated, professional or businessman, his world revolves around the community. the interactions with others outside the community is limited and superficial. they may be friends with hindus, parsees, christians, other muslims etc, but it does not go as deep as we would like to believe. they may visit each others houses and even eat there, but its almost like an uneasy truce and often contrived, with no easy familiarity. often this socialisation revolves around business interests.
thus, the dependency in bohras on community, family, friends, is far more deep-rooted than in most other religions or cultures. most of their socialising, cultural and religious practices revolve around communal eating and common celebrations. whereas this has been a very strong unifying bond and an excellent support network over centuries, it has been cleverly identified as a tool to ruthlessly manipulate and blackmail the community by the last 2 syednas. this source of strength has now become the community's weakness and any disruption caused in these ties by restricting access to it by the mullas, becomes a source of great misery and suffering to any typical bohra. the tools used are raza and public humiliation to deny what are your normal basic human rights - freedom of association, freedom of speech or thought, freedom to worship in the communal halls or masjids, and to attend functions there on important occasions, whether communal or private.
the highly social bohra is now a pariah and condemned to a life of loneliness and indignity, an object of pity and revulsion from his hitherto own close friends and family! it is like cutting off the oxygen supply to a person. the fear of being alone and unloved and unwanted is a very great fear which would break any person's resolve. bohras take great pride when they meet any other bohra from anywhere in the world in discovering some connection by way of family, relatives, native town or village etc. we often claim that every bohra is somehow every other bohra's relation! imagine being thrown out from your world and ridiculed, how painful it can be.
thus bohras will bend over backwards and try every trick to remain within, even take insults, blackmail, bullying and abuse, fully aware that they have no escape route, no alternative except to break all ties and leave, or submit. outwardly they all pretend normalcy, but under the surface there is immense pain and hurt at the way they are treated and have to kowtow to the amils and their 'masters'.
in many respects our community today is just another 'gulag archipalego', a simmering vessel of discontent, of tormented souls and silent screams. whereas hitler openly gassed and murdered lakhs of jews, we are being silently and murderously milked for every penny they can get out of us. its as if we are the jews and kothar the merciless, cold and cruel hitler. some take consolation in the fact that they paid less than the other guy or was harassed less, but its like the poor, deprived and abused labourers i have seen in dubai, who after a hard days work of 12 hours, sit among themselves in the hot sand and laugh and exchange stories of the meagre favours done to them.
all this is not very hard to see among bohras, not very difficult to understand.
the answer is not very far to find. just look at an ordinary bohra. no matter how well-educated, professional or businessman, his world revolves around the community. the interactions with others outside the community is limited and superficial. they may be friends with hindus, parsees, christians, other muslims etc, but it does not go as deep as we would like to believe. they may visit each others houses and even eat there, but its almost like an uneasy truce and often contrived, with no easy familiarity. often this socialisation revolves around business interests.
thus, the dependency in bohras on community, family, friends, is far more deep-rooted than in most other religions or cultures. most of their socialising, cultural and religious practices revolve around communal eating and common celebrations. whereas this has been a very strong unifying bond and an excellent support network over centuries, it has been cleverly identified as a tool to ruthlessly manipulate and blackmail the community by the last 2 syednas. this source of strength has now become the community's weakness and any disruption caused in these ties by restricting access to it by the mullas, becomes a source of great misery and suffering to any typical bohra. the tools used are raza and public humiliation to deny what are your normal basic human rights - freedom of association, freedom of speech or thought, freedom to worship in the communal halls or masjids, and to attend functions there on important occasions, whether communal or private.
the highly social bohra is now a pariah and condemned to a life of loneliness and indignity, an object of pity and revulsion from his hitherto own close friends and family! it is like cutting off the oxygen supply to a person. the fear of being alone and unloved and unwanted is a very great fear which would break any person's resolve. bohras take great pride when they meet any other bohra from anywhere in the world in discovering some connection by way of family, relatives, native town or village etc. we often claim that every bohra is somehow every other bohra's relation! imagine being thrown out from your world and ridiculed, how painful it can be.
thus bohras will bend over backwards and try every trick to remain within, even take insults, blackmail, bullying and abuse, fully aware that they have no escape route, no alternative except to break all ties and leave, or submit. outwardly they all pretend normalcy, but under the surface there is immense pain and hurt at the way they are treated and have to kowtow to the amils and their 'masters'.
in many respects our community today is just another 'gulag archipalego', a simmering vessel of discontent, of tormented souls and silent screams. whereas hitler openly gassed and murdered lakhs of jews, we are being silently and murderously milked for every penny they can get out of us. its as if we are the jews and kothar the merciless, cold and cruel hitler. some take consolation in the fact that they paid less than the other guy or was harassed less, but its like the poor, deprived and abused labourers i have seen in dubai, who after a hard days work of 12 hours, sit among themselves in the hot sand and laugh and exchange stories of the meagre favours done to them.
all this is not very hard to see among bohras, not very difficult to understand.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
aqmz,Aqa Moula_Zindabad wrote:Mr. Insaaf,
We are not interested in your family publicity, it seems u luv US/UK brands on ur name......u couldnt inculcate the feeling of patriotism into ur own blood and hav taken a false burden of being a reformist.
Why dont ur entire family stays in india.....as a doctor ur son can do much better public service in india than in US
your attempts to divert the topic are as usual a reflection of yr cowardice and desperation in facing the truth. a dishonest person who has no answers, will always retaliate by flinging mud on all others.
by your logic, if doing anything outside one's birth country is treachery and betrayal, then tell yr aqa mola not to go to germany for medical treatment and spend community's crores over there. why doesnt he get treatment at saifee hospital? why does he go and kill african lions and elephants?? tell him to hunt indian lions and tigers, as that will be sign of patriotism! please reply to this.
maybe u are still in india because u dont have the capability and qualifications to be invited abroad? a case of khattey angoor...
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
There is a very simple reason for the submissiveness (either conscious or unconscious). There are some basic things we all want in our lives - food, shelter, work, a social life, a spouse and family, and more vaguely an identity. Being a Bohra and complying with norms (and arbitrary rules) allows these individuals a comfortable lower bound on what they can achieve. On the other hand, it also puts a very strict upper bound as well. If you are risk-averse, as most people are, then the incentives are to conform and be submissive.
Conforming gives the people a basic social life, access to basic economic opportunity, networks to help you find a spouse even if you are low status, etc.
A second point we must note is that most people, even in America are not college educated. What this means is most people’s economic activity is quite local – in the towns they live and is dependent on their narrow local social circles. Non-conformity means that you will have to pay an economic penalty if you don’t conform. This is exacerbated by the fact that other communities won’t accept very easily if you leave – you think the majority or the Sindhi’s, Gujuratis, Sikhs will completely accept you as a member of their circle - either economic or social - if you decide to leave the Bohras?
In terms of unconscious submissiveness – you do what you know. If you’ve been raised a certain way, that is an automatic response. Think of the persistence of racism as an example.
It is really only the highly educated and mobile who can risk non-conformity. Even then, if others are not accepting of you into their circles, then you have many more incentives to conform than not.
Conforming gives the people a basic social life, access to basic economic opportunity, networks to help you find a spouse even if you are low status, etc.
A second point we must note is that most people, even in America are not college educated. What this means is most people’s economic activity is quite local – in the towns they live and is dependent on their narrow local social circles. Non-conformity means that you will have to pay an economic penalty if you don’t conform. This is exacerbated by the fact that other communities won’t accept very easily if you leave – you think the majority or the Sindhi’s, Gujuratis, Sikhs will completely accept you as a member of their circle - either economic or social - if you decide to leave the Bohras?
In terms of unconscious submissiveness – you do what you know. If you’ve been raised a certain way, that is an automatic response. Think of the persistence of racism as an example.
It is really only the highly educated and mobile who can risk non-conformity. Even then, if others are not accepting of you into their circles, then you have many more incentives to conform than not.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
AQZOMBIEAqa Moula_Zindabad wrote:
Mr. Insaaf,
We are not interested in your family publicity, it seems u luv US/UK brands on ur name......u couldnt inculcate the feeling of patriotism into ur own blood and hav taken a false burden of being a reformist.
Why dont ur entire family stays in india.....as a doctor ur son can do much better public service in india than in US
With your theory, how come most the the Kothari Shezadas went overseas to get education, If you look at Mukasir's sahebs family website Tahayiat.com his daughter is teaching at Unviersity of Chicago and most of their kids went to Oxford, OR COLLEGES IN CAIRO WHILE SYEDNA IS CHANCELLOR OF ALIGARH MUSLIM UNIVERSITY WOULD YOU ADVICE THEM TO COME TO INDIA AND COME TO A PLACE WHERE TAKHAT-E-DAWAT IS since his family is QASAR-E-AALI, WHEY ARE THEY NOT STAYING,TEACHING AND GETTING EDUCATION IN JAMIAHS IN INDIA
ZOMBIE YOU GUYS ARE SUCH HYPOCRATES
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Sorry
Correction, it is MAZOON sahib's website and as I understand usually MAZOON is next in line to become DAI (if NAAS is granted) The rest of contents doesnot change.The website address is
http://www.tahiyaat.com/
Correction, it is MAZOON sahib's website and as I understand usually MAZOON is next in line to become DAI (if NAAS is granted) The rest of contents doesnot change.The website address is
http://www.tahiyaat.com/
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Just to add on to what others have mentioned, the bohras find it more difficult to break out of the community bounds as compared to other communities. The primary reason behind this lies in the fact that bohras are an non-aggresive business oriented MUSLIM community. Here the word muslim is very important. The reason being inspite of multiple religious innovations by the last two Syednas, the community is still a muslim community per-se. Now breaking out of bohra community and going to another non-muslim community is out of question for most of the orthodox bohras. Also, bohras inspite of being muslims find it very difficult to identify themselves with other non-bohri muslims. The bohras are considered physically meek and mild by other mainstream muslim communities and they also find it difficult to identify themselves with bohras due the way we are. Going by this logic the bohras are trapped in a self spun community net which is extremely difficult to break. However, being human they have their own frustrations and concerns about the wrong doings in the community. They have this hidden anger in their hind site which cannot be released openly in front of the corrupt administration. Our community is like a country ruled by a corrupt tyrant. The masses of such a country cannot express their anger or frustration in open. However, when someone else comes forward and does that they feel good about it and end up supporting them by silently agreeing to them rather than opposing them. Orthodox bohris do understand the evil intentions of blood sucking kothar, but do not retaliate because of the fear of being thrown out of the community. I am sure this anti kothar feeling will grow stronger and stronger in coming future. And I strongly believe the aftermath of this community anger and frustration will be a revolution that the reformists are so patiently waiting for.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
comparing ombharati to moula Ali is an understatement. He may have some of the ideals of Moula Ali but not all. Allah has added compassionate and merciful right next to his blessed name. The deeds done by Ombharati are compassionate and merciful. He wants no reward for spreading the truth. which is compassionate. and if you cannot pay for the b.c. he gives you a copy free which is merciful of him. Allah loves the truth and May Allah give ombharati more strength to spread the truth till it reaches the ears and minds of all the mislead bohras specially those in England , canada and usa.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Br. Mumin
I suppose you meant Br. Saifuddin Insaf and not Omabharti
I suppose you meant Br. Saifuddin Insaf and not Omabharti
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
sorry for the error. definitly, positively br. saifuddin Insaf. or should I elaborate; the name speaks for itself, It is the insaf of insaf passand br. saifuddin Insaf i was refering to who with all his other supporters is doing Gods work. more power to him for spreading the truth.
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ozmujaheed
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
The reason why Bohras are submissive and less protesting goes with the cultural, geographical and racial context. The Kothar have done an excellent job exploiting oppositions perceived weakness into their strength
Bohras are based in Gujarat and are Brahmin decedents which states they are not from warrior background and to be a warrior tribe one must have gone to war to win and loss to get better at it.
Bohras are surrounded with Hindus who believe in gods, saints karishma and therefore have difficulty expecting fundamental Islamic practises. Therefore if a Diai claims miracles or comes up with mythological justifications for his non-human attributes it is not usually a surprise.
Bohras have survived Sunni conversion by thriving in the shadows of British colonialists similar to how Aga Khanis and Parsi survived. Minorities were given freedom and secularism thrived. Fortunately post-independence India continues this freedom.
Many Bohras in the last 100 years migrated to new lands initially Africa thereafter West where as they were surrounded by new cultures and lifestyles hanged onto whatever form of Bohraism offered even if it was uncomfortable from financial or lifestyle perspective so as not to be isolated. These new subjects enriched Kothar who used the new wealth to propagate their goals through madrassas, Amils and attributing lifestyle successes of the new migrants to their blessings thereby influencing Indian bohras into the faith and rituals and thereafter leveraging their new success. The wealthy were absorbed into Shiekhpanoo so that they would be on the strap and control their behaviour and thinking.
The new migrants were too few to stage meaningful protests in London, Nairobi, and Toronto to get Western government attention or have the numbers to springboard a global revolution. This has a lot of similarities of how the recent Iranian revolt is losing momentum.
The Indira Gandhi education rollout where making youth intellectually capable of standing up for their future is the one hope remaining as I see many migrant Indians letting go of their Hindu practises and intermarriages common in the West. I hope that education rollout will fuel discontent in India where you have the numbers.
I am at the same time saddened that I see many purjosh fanatic youth from India who come in as students and can afford multi 10s of thousand dollar fees and when I ask them they say I am Sheikh Rupiawallas son. SO the hopes could once again fade.
Bohras are based in Gujarat and are Brahmin decedents which states they are not from warrior background and to be a warrior tribe one must have gone to war to win and loss to get better at it.
Bohras are surrounded with Hindus who believe in gods, saints karishma and therefore have difficulty expecting fundamental Islamic practises. Therefore if a Diai claims miracles or comes up with mythological justifications for his non-human attributes it is not usually a surprise.
Bohras have survived Sunni conversion by thriving in the shadows of British colonialists similar to how Aga Khanis and Parsi survived. Minorities were given freedom and secularism thrived. Fortunately post-independence India continues this freedom.
Many Bohras in the last 100 years migrated to new lands initially Africa thereafter West where as they were surrounded by new cultures and lifestyles hanged onto whatever form of Bohraism offered even if it was uncomfortable from financial or lifestyle perspective so as not to be isolated. These new subjects enriched Kothar who used the new wealth to propagate their goals through madrassas, Amils and attributing lifestyle successes of the new migrants to their blessings thereby influencing Indian bohras into the faith and rituals and thereafter leveraging their new success. The wealthy were absorbed into Shiekhpanoo so that they would be on the strap and control their behaviour and thinking.
The new migrants were too few to stage meaningful protests in London, Nairobi, and Toronto to get Western government attention or have the numbers to springboard a global revolution. This has a lot of similarities of how the recent Iranian revolt is losing momentum.
The Indira Gandhi education rollout where making youth intellectually capable of standing up for their future is the one hope remaining as I see many migrant Indians letting go of their Hindu practises and intermarriages common in the West. I hope that education rollout will fuel discontent in India where you have the numbers.
I am at the same time saddened that I see many purjosh fanatic youth from India who come in as students and can afford multi 10s of thousand dollar fees and when I ask them they say I am Sheikh Rupiawallas son. SO the hopes could once again fade.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
I think ozmujaheed has given the right answer to Saifuddinbhai's question.
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East Africawalla
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
The reason is we come from vepari community, we are in there if we get something, it give us the solace which we crave for, to us there is no alternative
Most of the people do enjoy the community socially, gives us identity and offers us entry into jannaat - what other community can offer that with confidence
Most of the people do enjoy the community socially, gives us identity and offers us entry into jannaat - what other community can offer that with confidence
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ozmujaheed
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
CND thanks.
To address and weaken Kothar strong hold we need to strengthen the various fronts I have listed which are our weaknesses i.e.:
Collect wealth and a funds, setup teams and networks to lobby for public recognition. Don’t be silly copy Kothar tactics to stand up against them
To address and weaken Kothar strong hold we need to strengthen the various fronts I have listed which are our weaknesses i.e.:
Learn from the lost past battles court cases, start new battles.one can only get better. Look at the US and Western Alliance (regardless of whatever the Arabs or Asians say) why are they still a super power? Because they always at war somewhere and are always a battle hardened.Bohras are based in Gujarat and are Brahmin decedents which states they are not from warrior background and to be a warrior tribe one must have gone to war to win and loss to get better at it.
Associate more with Muslims and learn from The Ummah do not feel lonely as Bohras. Question question questionBohras are surrounded with Hindus who believe in gods, saints karishma and therefore have difficulty expecting fundamental Islamic practises. Therefore if a Diai claims miracles or comes up with mythological justifications for his non-human attributes it is not usually a surprise.
Create a strong and credible alternative community and faith. The Ummah will also lead you to the Prophets SAW destination. All the crap about Bohras or Ismailis is the only rightful entrant to Jannah is loads of crap get it in your brains.Bohras have survived Sunni conversion by thriving in the shadows of British colonialists similar to how Aga Khanis and Parsi survived. Minorities were given freedom and secularism thrived. Fortunately post-independence India continues this freedom.
Minority in new frontiers: Associate with locals feel comfortable in your mixed cultural environment get on with your lives.Many Bohras in the last 100 years migrated to new lands initially Africa thereafter West where as they were surrounded by new cultures and lifestyles hanged onto whatever form of Bohraism offered even if it was uncomfortable from financial or lifestyle perspective so as not to be isolated. These new subjects enriched Kothar who used the new wealth to propagate their goals through madrassas, Amils and attributing lifestyle successes of the new migrants to their blessings thereby influencing Indian bohras into the faith and rituals and thereafter leveraging their new success. The wealthy were absorbed into Shiekhpanoo so that they would be on the strap and control their behaviour and thinking. The new migrants were too few to stage meaningful protests in London, Nairobi, and Toronto to get Western government attention or have the numbers to springboard a global revolution. This has a lot of similarities of how the recent Iranian revolt is losing momentum.
Collect wealth and a funds, setup teams and networks to lobby for public recognition. Don’t be silly copy Kothar tactics to stand up against them
Target the educated youth and encourage that they make informed choice. This starts within homes and socially using modern technologies. I suggest we start a Progressive twitter blog tooThe Indira Gandhi education rollout where making youth intellectually capable of standing up for their future is the one hope remaining as I see many migrant Indians letting go of their Hindu practises and intermarriages common in the West. I hope that education rollout will fuel discontent in India where you have the numbers.
Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
Bhoras need to participate in fierce sports such as boxing, wrestling and american football .We are too soft. Most Bhories do not own guns.Girly man thats what my daughter calls them.
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East Africawalla
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Re: Why Bohras are so frightened and submissive?
We are frightened and submissive because of following reasons
1) Wife who is totally dedicated religious person ( you may say brainwash - but I would never admit)
2) 50+ years of total indocrination of mind
3) Examples of total punishment if ever you would go astray
4) I think the offer of Janaat always keeps us on our toes
5) Total control of your life from birth to death and after death
6) free 4 course food for 100 times a year
7) Social lfe
Identity and making sure your children do not go astray in the western world so you keep on going to the mosque
9) The alternative does not exist - people like mixing with people of same kind
10) Very basic religious teachings easy to understand not too detail other wise in other religions they go too deep and scare you too much
11) etc etc
1) Wife who is totally dedicated religious person ( you may say brainwash - but I would never admit)
2) 50+ years of total indocrination of mind
3) Examples of total punishment if ever you would go astray
4) I think the offer of Janaat always keeps us on our toes
5) Total control of your life from birth to death and after death
6) free 4 course food for 100 times a year
7) Social lfe
Identity and making sure your children do not go astray in the western world so you keep on going to the mosque9) The alternative does not exist - people like mixing with people of same kind
10) Very basic religious teachings easy to understand not too detail other wise in other religions they go too deep and scare you too much
11) etc etc