Kothar Damn Scared of "Yemeni Bohras".

[ghulam muhammed]

The only 'Bohras' that this parasite kothar is afraid of are the yemeni bohras although they originate from the birthplace of bohra sect (probably that is the reason why they are afraid.... as the saying goes 'ghar ka bhedi lanka dhaaye').

One such glaring example was evident in Makkah rubat in the month of ramzan. A certain yemeni bohra was highly enraged as the rubat members did not give the thaal to the group of people he was sitting with as the same was less then 8 people which is required when giving the thaal. This led to a hot discussion which resulted in the yemeni bohra losing his cool and the group literally came to blows and also threw plates all around. There was lot of chaos and violence but the best part is that the amil syedul kher who was very much present there just ignored the whole ruckus and did not even utter a word to cool down the tempers. So if a person like kher who is supposed to be the most ruthless and a master in the art of extortion became a 'bheegi billi' speaks a lot about the fear of kothar with regard to yemeni bohras. This yemeni is the same person who had some years back snatched the mike from mudar bhaisaab and threw it on the ground, his brother is a sheikh.

Probably Bro Hussain ksa can give us a more detailed version of the said episode.

[mumin]

this is good news. now atleast we know that kothar cannot use the same stick on every one. the yemini bohras are probably very well read and know arabic and this makes a world of difference. no lissan e dawat is going to work in yemen. i would ,if i had the resources invite more and more yemeni bohris to attend majlis ,vaez etc and give them the opportunity first hand to see the kind of cruelty metted out by the clergy to the other mumineen in the name of taweel and diffrent fatwas.

[Yemeni]

I am actually a Yemeni who comes from an Ismaili family ,but we no longer follow the current Dai.
we never call ourselves Bohra... We call ourselves Ismailis . Although we were under the Bohra's leadership in India for a long time ....

I have been following this forum since two years just to know what's going on on the Bohra community . I wanted to know the real stories that my grandfather did not know for many years ......

[Maqbool]

I am actually a Yemeni who comes from an Ismaili family ,but we no longer follow the current Dai.
we never call ourselves Bohra... We call ourselves Ismailis . Although we were under the Bohra's leadership in India for a long time ....

I have been following this forum since two years just to know what's going on on the Bohra community . I wanted to know the real stories that my grandfather did not know for many years ......

Can you enlighten us more about:
Why you are not following current Dai?
What you feel about present activity of our Dai?
How the Ismailies function there and Ismailies means Agakhanies?
What about natives D.Bohras leaving in Yamen?

Your feed back is very essential for the participant of this forum.

[S. Insaf]

Dear Yemeni,
You say 'we were under the Bohra's leadership in India for a long time ....' , which means you are not Agakhanis.
That means you also revere Syedna Hatim bin Ibrahim-al-Hamid. The activities of present Dawoodi Bohra Dai are around him tomb in Yemen and a huge fund is being collected in the name of 'renovating that tomb of Syedna Hatim. How is present Yemeni government allowing this interference of an outsider?

[Yemeni]

Dear Yemeni,
You say 'we were under the Bohra's leadership in India for a long time ....' , which means you are not Agakhanis.
That means you also revere Syedna Hatim bin Ibrahim-al-Hamid. The activities of present Dawoodi Bohra Dai are around him tomb in Yemen and a huge fund is being collected in the name of 'renovating that tomb of Syedna Hatim. How is present Yemeni government allowing this interference of an outsider?

Dear S.Insaf,

I am not Agakhanis ... We call ourselves Ismaili dawoodis but we never call ourselves Bohra ... I do not even know the meaning of this word . Anyway, the problem begun in the 70s ..as far as I know the current dai wanted to enforce new rules in the Yemeni community and that was when we decided to confront these new rules and to be expelled from his community ... My family still believe in the Ismaili dawoodi doctrine but we do not believe in the current Dai.

Most of the people of my region are following him but not all of them ..... he is collecting a lot of money from them ... and I know that he builds some mosques ...and makes some roads and I think that's why the governments is allowing him..

[S. Insaf]

Dear brother Yemeni,
Many thanks for the prompt reply. Is it convinient for you to give some idea about 'the new rules' intended to be introduced. Only if if it is convinient please.

[Al-Muizz]

O.K. How many of you actually went to Yemen with Aqa Moula (TUS)? No offence to Yemeni, but MOST Yemenis do not exactly follow any rules, anyways. Other Mumeen line up for Syedna Hatim (RA) ziarat, but not the Yemeni Mumeen...no Sir! They just push themselves forward, irrespective of whether there are elderly, or even when they are told to subir for a bit....it seems apparent that rules really don't seem to apply to them by their own choosing. Let's not forget that most Yemenis have a reputation of being hot-headed, even by their own fellow Yemenis!

So, it's not about being scared,really. It's about compromise. Why get into an altercation with a fellow Mumeen, especially one who will not budge at all? The difference between the Yemenis and the Indians is a cultural subservience to authority, really. For instance, when you go to Syedna Najmuddin (RA) ziarat, kids throw fire crackers at you, but you cannot say anything to them because their parents will come and fight and throw blows at you.....so with such circumstances, it is prudent to hold back and avoid unnecessary altercations, because at the end, you will lose.

[SBM]

al-Muizz
So, it's not about being scared,really. It's about compromise. Why get into an altercation with a fellow Mumeen, especially one who will not budge at all?

So why not make same compromise with Progressive Jamaat too..

[Al-Muizz]

al-Muizz
So, it's not about being scared,really. It's about compromise. Why get into an altercation with a fellow Mumeen, especially one who will not budge at all?

So why not make same compromise with Progressive Jamaat too..

Aqa Moula (TUS) has repeatedly reached out to the progressives to join the mainstream.......the choice is yours really. Sure, the Yemenis don't follow rules, sure they come out to be brash and aggressive, but many have ikhlaas and mohabat and actually do believe in Aqa Moula (TUS).

[SBM]

Al-Muizz
Interesting how you define Ikhlass and Mohabbat.
Shakir Tezoon (Zahir-batin.com), a relative of Syedna has full Ikhlaas and Mohabbat for Syedna and believes in Syedna but had problem with others regarding Mazoon and Mukasir and how the Gondaas beat him up when he was in Mumbai and no one from Kothar including Zadas lifted a finger to condemn the attack on one of their own.

[Yemeni]

Dear brother Yemeni,
Many thanks for the prompt reply. Is it convinient for you to give some idea about 'the new rules' intended to be introduced. Only if if it is convinient please.

Dear Insaf,

The Ismaili Society in Yemen has been living in peace for hundred of years without any problems that was because the Dais were not allowed to come to Yemen and practice their rituals. The ruling authority(The Zaidi Imam ) was totally hostile to Ismailis so we kept our own beliefs in secret . After the revolution in Yemen in 1962 the political situation has changed to the republican government.
The situation was perfect for the Dai to come to Yemen because the Zaidi Imam authority was over .
On the 1970s the conflict started between the currnet dai authority and the Dai deputy(Amil) in Yemen who was a Yemeni citizen who was my grandfather. My family was the representative of the Dai in Yemen for many years before even the current Dai was born .

First, The conflict was cultural not religious . That dai was trying to change the Yemeni culture,language,tradition to the Indian Bohri system . The dai plan was to take more control over the Yemeni Ismailis like he is doing in India .
He told his deputy in Yemen the new rules which is :-

1- Every Ismaili person must wear a special uniform (including women this was very sensitive point to Yemeni person )
2- Women should go to the mosques to pray wearing a special uniform .
3- The Ismailis society must take control of the Alkabeer Mosque in Yemen which was impossible because it was under the control of the Zaidi doctrine followers ..

No offence to Yemeni, but MOST Yemenis do not exactly follow any rules, .

Al-Muizz is right !!!! and that was what the Dai representative or deputy was trying to explain to the current Dai .

The Yemeni community was very simple and very poor and the mentality of the people was under the tribal traditions which is very hard to tell them to follow any rules other than the tribal rules ..


I can not remember all of them . Anyway, his deputy was trying to explain that the situation in Yemen was different than India. Besides, its impossible to change what people wear or speak for hundreds of years in just a couple of days . Also, wearing a special uniform will increase the hostility against the Ismailis In Yemen from other Muslims. Although the political situation was changed , the bad idea about Ismails in Yemen still alive .

The deputy was trying to make settlement because he was one of the most influential persons in the area which the Ismailis exists in . His hesitation to impose the new rules was considered disobedience.
The Dai displaced his deputy with an Indian one and announce the social boycott to the deputy’s family and relatives which is my family ...

[S. Insaf]

Many thanks, brother Yemeni. I was very close to Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. But then soon I became 'the man who knew too much' and sidelined.

[Maqbool]

That dai was trying to change the Yemeni culture,language,tradition to the Indian Bohri system

Prophet was keeping beard and long hair. We have been told to keep beard because it is a sunnat of prophate but no long hair, because it does not like to Dai.
The Dawat came from Yeman but the culture and tradition should be from India. Can any hardcore believer explain this?

[Yemeni]

That dai was trying to change the Yemeni culture,language,tradition to the Indian Bohri system

Prophet was keeping beard and long hair. We have been told to keep beard because it is a sunnat of prophate but no long hair, because it does not like to Dai.
The Dawat came from Yeman but the culture and tradition should be from India. Can any hardcore believer explain this?

The Dawat came from Yemen but the Dawat did not say to wear special uniform to be a faithful believer because faith has nothing to do with the type of clothes ... The Dawat does not say anything about wearing a yellow cap or blue or red....... or anything about Salam and paying a lot of money to bring the Dai to your home ....

The Dawat did not say you have to call yourself Bohri ....and the Dawat did not say to boycott the one that disagree with you .. and the Dawat did not say to make SAJDA for the Dai .. ...


We did not have all of these things before until the current Dai came and changed everything ...

but we still beleives in ismaili Dawat ...

[Humsafar]

Yemeni, welcome to the forum and thank you for interesting and informative posts. Kudos to yemenis for resisting the alien rules being imposed by outsiders. The Dai's administration has as much sensitivity as a bull in a china shop. And Al-Muizz, without intending to, has nailed the problem the bohras have:

The difference between the Yemenis and the Indians is a cultural subservience to authority, really.

The bohras in India (Pakistan, East Africa) do not have guts. They are easily frightened into submission and subservience - and apparently all in the name of religion. But we all know - and even the cowering, manipulated bohras in their heart of hearts know - that all this dawat's business has nothing to do with religion. It's just business, and for that business to be profitable the bohras need to be controlled. The yemenis with their tribal intelligence can see through the charade. Alas the so-called educated and sophisticated bohras cannot. Two cheers for Yemeni Dawoodis - keep up the resistance.

Aqa Moula (TUS) has repeatedly reached out to the progressives to join the mainstream.......

This is not true. Awa Maula has never attempted to reach out to reformists in any meaningful way. He or his administration has never responded to our letters and offers of dialogue. All they want us to do is join the "mainstream" unconditionally, without even listening to our grievances, leave alone reaching a compromise. In the case of Yemeni resistance they at least think of a compromise but in the case of Indian resistance, they want complete and abject submission. It is clear that Dai does not treat all Bohras equally, in his eyes some are more equal than others. And why this should be so? Because he has much too lose (by being exposed to Arab Muslims) from Yemeni resistance than form Indian resistance. All this power game makes the Dai more of a politician than an spiritual leader and a father figure (Shafique Bawa) he is supposed to be. Just think about it.

[mumin]

salams, brother yemeni; thank you for accepting my invitation and exposing the situation in yemen. your honesty has no doubt opened a can of worms. you must have read the posts of the heart broken so called bohra's from india and pakistan.
understand also that the indian and pakistani bohras were under the british rule for almost 200 years and so there is still a trace of submissive mentality for the old timers and so they give in to the radical demands of the clergy.some of the yuppee generation who was also forced by the old timers to ask no questions but obey the dai have also the radical abde syedna no thought process mentality. The new generation born in the west and understanding the god given gift of freedom of thought and speech, question some of the hard core practises that the clergy demands and is the reason of the birth of the reform group.
our group though a small band of freedom thinkers is active and fights for justice and fairness and helps poor mumineen who have been disgraced and spat on by the so called clergy and his goondas.
again, welcome on board and enlighten us more.
by the way this submission demanded by the clergy is taking a new turn in misr. the qari's of misr were given a free ticket and lodging and boarding by the clergy to come to india to teach quran recitation. This was a political move of the clergy to make the misr mullas happy and not to incite the few bohri's settling in misr. The pictures are there on this site as proof. Also the bohras of thailand and rangoon are fighting for fairness and justice. they do not want the clergy to take possession of their markaz and mosques in the name of wakaf. It is the efforts of the local community that mosques and markaz come into being. It is definitely not a free lodging and boarding place for the imported bhaisaheb to come and twist your arm till you drop every penny in his bucket.

[Al-Muizz]

Prophet was keeping beard and long hair. We have been told to keep beard because it is a sunnat of prophate but no long hair, because it does not like to Dai.
The Dawat came from Yeman but the culture and tradition should be from India. Can any hardcore believer explain this?

The Dawat came from Yemen but the Dawat did not say to wear special uniform to be a faithful believer because faith has nothing to do with the type of clothes ... The Dawat does not say anything about wearing a yellow cap or blue or red....... or anything about Salam and paying a lot of money to bring the Dai to your home ....

The Dawat did not say you have to call yourself Bohri ....and the Dawat did not say to boycott the one that disagree with you .. and the Dawat did not say to make SAJDA for the Dai .. ...


We did not have all of these things before until the current Dai came and changed everything ...

but we still beleives in ismaili Dawat ...

Yemeni, do you believe in the authority and the seat of the Dai? Do you believe in the 52 Dai as the Dai to whom you turn to for religious guidance? See, herein lies the difference between your views and the progressives views. What you are describing is a clash of cultures. I saw ALL Yemeni Mumeen wearing their traditional clothes, even wearing their jambiyas. Sure the Yemeni Mumenaat wore the veil on top of the rida, but traditional Yemeni ladies wear hijab that is black, not colored. Again, this is a cultural impasse, not an impasse on core beliefs, right Yemeni?

There are positive changes Aqa Moula (TUS) has brought to Yemen, don't you agree Yemeni?

[Aarif]

There are positive changes Aqa Moula (TUS) has brought to Yemen

Can you please tell us what these positive changes are?

[SBM]

There are positive changes Aqa Moula (TUS) has brought to Yemen
Can you please tell us what these positive changes are?

Building few new roads and increasing TOURISM to Yemen........

[SBM]

Al-Muizz
I saw ALL Yemeni Mumeen wearing their traditional clothes, even wearing their jambiyas. Sure the Yemeni Mumenaat wore the veil on top of the rida, but traditional Yemeni ladies wear hijab that is black, not colored.

So in Europe and America, they should be allowed to wear Suits for Men and Skirts for Women because this is what is Western
Tradition, why force STD on Bohras in Europe and America?

[SBM]

Al-Muizz
Interesting how you define Ikhlass and Mohabbat.
Shakir Tezoon (Zahir-batin.com), a relative of Syedna has full Ikhlaas and Mohabbat for Syedna and believes in Syedna but had problem with others regarding Mazoon and Mukasir and how the Gondaas beat him up when he was in Mumbai and no one from Kothar including Zadas lifted a finger to condemn the attack on one of their own.

Any response on Shakir Taizoon's Ikhlass and Mohabbat?

[Yemeni]

Yemeni, do you believe in the authority and the seat of the Dai? Do you believe in the 52 Dai as the Dai to whom you turn to for religious guidance?

The answer is NO !! I do not believe in his religious authority anymore ...

There are positive changes Aqa Moula (TUS) has brought to Yemen, don't you agree Yemeni?

I never see any positive changes ... when the current Dai comes to Yemen the hostility view to the Ismaili community in Yemen increases because they think that they are worshiping him ..... actually they act like that .. The government is allowing that because it is considered a religious tourism..

[Al Zulfiqar]

although this thread was provocatively titled, it does not exaggerate. i have personally seen how the kothar treats bohras of arab yemeni origin with kid gloves. they are scared of them, their fierce independence, their pride and lack of fear, their anti-subservient and anti-sycophantic attitude, and above all their knowledge of arabic. all the b.s. that the kothar dishes out using fancy arabic words plucked totally out of context to fool the gullible bohras, does not cut any ice with arab yemeni bohras as the kothar is caught out like a "andhon mein kaana raja". all the syedna's and his snake-oil-selling-corporation's pathetic attempts to pass themselves off as pristine arabs of yemeni origin, nay, direct descendants of the prophet and imam hussain etc, falls flat on its face, when confronted with the real yemeni arab bohras.

but shouldnt the real point behind this discussion be to take a leaf out of this behaviour of the kothar? that a whole community's enlightened resistance and refusal to bend over like fearful sycophants can lead to the kothar backing down?

alas, when will our gutless bohras learn this lesson? I always say, albeit jokingly, that if by a stroke of fortune, we had converts from some fiercely independent warrior communities, would the amils - the pitbulls of the kothar - dare to dictate humiliating terms and berate them as they do ordinary gutless bohras of baniya origin?

[mumin]

definitely not the old timers who have traces of british subserviant mentality. It is the new generation of open and logical thinkers that will put some common sense into the old timers.

[Aarif]

Br. AZ,

welcome back.

[Al-Muizz]

Yemeni, do you believe in the authority and the seat of the Dai? Do you believe in the 52 Dai as the Dai to whom you turn to for religious guidance?

The answer is NO !! I do not believe in his religious authority anymore ...

There are positive changes Aqa Moula (TUS) has brought to Yemen, don't you agree Yemeni?

I never see any positive changes ... when the current Dai comes to Yemen the hostility view to the Ismaili community in Yemen increases because they think that they are worshiping him ..... actually they act like that .. The government is allowing that because it is considered a religious tourism..

O.K. Let me get this straight......the road constructions, the schools that are being built, the QH foundation that is established.....all that is not useful to the Yemeni Mumeen? I see your government doing a lot of these things..........

Granted, you don't believe in the Dai's religious authority anymore. You claim your grandfather was the representative of the Dai until he was replaced. Does your family believe in this Dai? Your reason for not following him is because you were replaced from your position? So, it's a jilted move because you were replaced from a powerful position? I'm just not clear what your issue is. On one hand you say that this is not based on religion, on the other hand, you say it is.....so which is it?

[SBM]

So, it's a jilted move because you were replaced from a powerful position

So Al Muizz
You agree it has to do with POWER and not RELIGION........

[Al-Muizz]

So, it's a jilted move because you were replaced from a powerful position

So Al Muizz
You agree it has to do with POWER and not RELIGION........

Not to mention the Burhani Clinic.....

Well, I do understand Yemenis point that the cultural differences exist between Yemeni and Indian dawat. My question was addressing the overall picture. Yemeni's grandfather was obviously very well connected with the community and obviously interacted with Aqa Moula. So,obviously, Yemeni's grandfather believe in the Dai, otherwise why would such an authority be placed on him? If you don't follow this Dai, who do you follow?

The obvious fear anyone can see is that since the dawaat is hq in Hind, that the Yemenis feel sidelined. I mean, most Yemenis cannot afford to travel around the globe, like many Indian Bohras do. Still, despite this many many years of not seeing the Dai, the Yemeni have mohabat of the Dai and have diligently followed the Hindustan Duats

[SBM]

Al Muizz
Can you reply to my question of Ikhlaas and Mohabbat of Syedna toward Shakir Tezoon as compared to Yamanis.