are progs shias or not

[aziz]

are progs shias or not ?
if yes then what is the view of the progs on the nass on moula als sa by rasullah sa on ghadire khum,
is it valid for the progs or not?
do they believe that rasullah sa did nass on moula ali sa or not?
and do they agree with all other shias dawoodi bohras included that umer la slapped and whipped maa fatema when she wa pregnant or not
do they agree that the three usurped moula ali sa by so called election at saqifa


would like know the progs views so we dawoodi bohras know where you stand is it the adawat of the duat only or does it carry upto panjatan sa as well

[ghulam muhammed]

so we dawoodi bohras know where you stand is it the adawat of the duat only or does it carry upto panjatan sa as well

O.K. So dawoodi bohra's love for Panjatan (a.s.) is CONDITIONAL, i.e. you love Panjatan (a.s.) ONLY if you hate the Sahabas. Kuwa me medaks like you need to clinge to the hatred for sahabas in order to prove your love for Panjatan (a.s.), their greatness in itself is of least importance to you. That is why the image of the great, brave and valiant Hussain (a.s.) is of "mazlum-e-Hussain", you pity him more rather then appreciate his valour and couragous nature, that is why all of bohra bayans lays more emphasis on his mazlumiyat rather then his courage. After all they have to justify their dai's wrongs by projecting him also as meek, fragile, old and helpless 99 year old man who has to tolerate the evils of his zaadas in order to run the daawat.

This is called religion of convenience, rather a belief of convenience.

[ghulam muhammed]

Someone once asked an Auliya, "What are your views on yazid ?", to which he replied "Mujhe Hussain (a.s.) ke jalwe aur shaan dekhne se fursat mile to main yazid ke baare mein sochu na".

[incredible]

so we dawoodi bohras know where you stand is it the adawat of the duat only or does it carry upto panjatan sa as well

O.K. So dawoodi bohra's love for Panjatan (a.s.) is CONDITIONAL, i.e. you love Panjatan (a.s.) ONLY if you hate the Sahabas. Kuwa me medaks like you need to clinge to the hatred for sahabas in order to prove your love for Panjatan (a.s.), their greatness in itself is of least importance to you. That is why the image of the great, brave and valiant Hussain (a.s.) is of "mazlum-e-Hussain", you pity him more rather then appreciate his valour and couragous nature, that is why all of bohra bayans lays more emphasis on his mazlumiyat rather then his courage. After all they have to justify their dai's wrongs by projecting him also as meek, fragile, old and helpless 99 year old man who has to tolerate the evils of his zaadas in order to run the daawat.

This is called religion of convenience, rather a belief of convenience.

shia dont hate all sahabas infact they respect them more then sunnis.but those who were crooks and did unjustice are damed by shia.

[Al Zulfiqar]

aziz,

we would like to know the following:

1. do the abde syednas call themselves shia or not?
2. if they call themselves shia, do they follow ali or not?
3. if they follow ali, do they follow his practices or not?
4. if they are following his practices and behaviour, did he oppose the so-called usupers?
5. did he fight them on the battlefield?
6. If he in fact did not, but helped them in the larger cause of islam to keep muslims united, are you and the syedna doing the same?
7. By spreading hatred amongst muslims against the practice and behaviour of ali, does that make you and the syedna shia, or anti-ali and anti shia?
9. If abu bakr, umer and uthman are common names from ages as per your own argument, and ali and hussain honoured their sons by giving them those names, why dont u also name yr sons after them?
10. is valid criticism of syedna and his family who indulge in anti-islamic practices and shamelessly live a life of ayyashi off the communitys money and properties, adawat of 'duat'?
11. did ali refuse to give accounts to the community or scrupulously kept the accounts of bait ul maal open for public scrutiny?
12. did ali call his sons hassan, hussain shezaadas? did ali ever sit on a takhat or allow his sons to do so?
13. did ali or his sons ever accept sajda from any muslim? did he allow muslims to sing to him shirk filled songs like 'sajda tujhe wajib hai' ??
14. did ali only visit the houses of rich muslims, eat lavish foods and take bribes from them and in return reward them with bogus titles like 'sheikh'?
15. did ali and his sons ever fraternise with persons of low character or those who earned their money with haraam means and in fact give them prominent positions in society, unlike the practices of the last 2 syednas who care 2 hoots whose money they take or whom they bestow with bogus titles?
16. ali and his entire family gave their lives for islam and moral principles, is the present syedna and his family doing the same for islam today?

now judge for yrself if you are honest, are you a shia and are your fellow abdes and their leader a shia, or anti-shia and insulting the life and memory of ali and his family? paying lip service to ghadeer e khum, saying laanats, and doing maatam does not make you a shia, when you and your leadership in reality do everything aginst the life, practices and principles of ali. not only are abdes not shia, they are not even fit to be called muslims.

[like_minded]

Very well said Alz bhai!

Ali and Hussain were killed 1400+ years ago.... but today (after 1400 years) we are killing them everyday!!!

[ozmujaheed]

Was the Prophet SAW a Shia or Sunni ?

Since when did you and I stop being the followers of the Prophet and turned into followers of followers of followers.... ?

Muhammad SAW is The Messenger and final Messenger ! The rest are his Respected decendents who loved and respected their Prophet more than many of us !

Progs are not 1 school of thought ..we are individuals with separate understandings and beleifs...but a common adversary the Kothar Zadass extremist abdes and Dawat monarchy...that is why I usually call people like me uniquely resistance members so you can distinguish the differences.

for example Mr Ali Asger may be a hero and congratulated for his committment to resist but is not my leader...however I trust him more and feel is more sincere than the 52nd or Zadas

[Mubarak]

O.K. So dawoodi bohra's love for Panjatan (a.s.) is CONDITIONAL, i.e. you love Panjatan (a.s.) ONLY if you hate the Sahabas. Kuwa me medaks like you need to clinge to the hatred for sahabas in order to prove your love for Panjatan (a.s.), their greatness in itself is of least importance to you.

Declaration of 'Barat' to Shaitan ^1 and reading "Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem" - both are made together. Indeed 'Barat' to Shaitan ^1 is made first and then "Bismillah..." is recited.

Likewise 'Barat' to trio caliphs are made first then love for Panjatan (a.s.) is declared.


^1: Aauzo billah his sami il aleem minash sahitan nir rajeem

[aziz]

why cant you progs answer a simple question
about ghadire khum and your khalifa umer la slapping the daughter of rasullah sa,

we allready know your views of us dawoodi bohras not being shias or not being muslims,the question is what are you ? followers of the three shaitans or moula ali sa ,you cannot be both sunni and shia at the same time.


you cannot call the three hazrats and then claim to be shias,ask even your udaipuri progs.

[Regal]

what is the story of Umer slapping the daughter of Prophet p.b.u.h ? never heard this one before... wouldnt Ali a.s have done something about it, a celebrated warrior that he was?

[Mubarak]

are progs shias or not ?
if yes then what is the view of the progs on the nass on moula als sa by rasullah sa on ghadire khum,
is it valid for the progs or not?
do they believe that rasullah sa did nass on moula ali sa or not?
and do they agree with all other shias dawoodi bohras included that umer la slapped and whipped maa fatema when she wa pregnant or not
do they agree that the three usurped moula ali sa by so called election at saqifa


would like know the progs views so we dawoodi bohras know where you stand is it the adawat of the duat only or does it carry upto panjatan sa as well

1. Bohra Youth (Progressives) are Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia.

2. Bohra Youth (Progressives) believes that on Zilhijj 18, Hijri 10, on the ground of Gadeer-a-Khum Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) appointed/nominated Mola Ali (a.s.) as his sole and only successor.

3. Bohra Youth (Progressives) categorically believes that Rasool Allah did ‘Nass’ on Mola Ali (a.s.) not only on ground of Gadeer but also on the occasion of ‘Dawat-a-Zul-Asheera’ and on many other occasions.

4. Bohra Youth (Progressives) unambiguously lectures in their majlises that not only Umar slapped Molatina Fatima (a.s.) but also Umar is the murderer of Molatina Fatima. The CD of these majlises can be received from Aqib Palana Wala (he is pesh Imam of Rasoolpura mosque) in Udaipur or from his sibling Zahid Palan Wala in Dubai, and on special request it may be procured from Imad bhai Attarwala (his perfume shop is opposite to JJ Hospital, opp. to Al Mas Café, Mumbai).

5. Bohra Youth (Progressives) are of belief that trio caliphs plotted coup in Sakifa than to take care of last rite of Prophet Mohammed dead body. Indeed Sakifa (where trio caliphs plotted - that time and place) ACTUALLY is where Imam Hussain was murdered, Molatina Fatima was murdered, Imam Hasan was murdered and Mola Ali was murdered by trio caliphs. Those trio caliphs are the real murderer of Panjatan in Sakifa.

6. Bohra Youth (Progressives) first rule is that they have faith in seat of Dai same like Bohra Shabab have - Bohra Youth (Progressives) want that Burhanuddin sahib must practice the established authentic rule of Fatimi Dawat which he doesn’t.


Above is the official status of the Bohra Youth faith. Above can be re-verified by writing registered post to Bohra Jamat Office, opposite Boharwadi Police Station, Boharwadi, Udaipur, (Raj) India or alternatively the most senior and important leader of the reform movement Janab bhai Abid Adeeb can be contacted for same in person or phone.

Indeed, saifuddin Insaf sahib can vet, in Court of Law of Government of India, parasite Kothar and corrupt Taher Saifuddin and his materialistic son Burhanuddin sahib all tried to categorise Bohra Youth (Progressives) as another sect. We refuted and declared that we are not different sect, we are Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia not at all different than Bohra Shabab in the matter of faith.

[Smart]

Dear Aziz,

Continuing in the tone of AZ,

Did Moula Ali, or for that matter Imam Husain, felicitate murderers of muslims in an open majlis? People like Narendra Modi?

Did they pay money to them from the treasury of the daawat?

[aziz]

the history is there for all to see ,rasullah sa kept the three shaitans near him knowing fully well what they would do to his family after his death,even moula ali sa helped the the three usurpers in order to aid islam..
but do you again join the three and do what they did by denying the nass of ghadire khum

[Al Zulfiqar]

the history is there for all to see ,

rasullah sa kept the three shaitans near him knowing fully well what they would do to his family after his death,

even moula ali sa helped the the three usurpers in order to aid islam..

but do you again join the three and do what they did by denying the nass of ghadire khum

aziz,

i have made this statement earlier, but will repeat it again for your below retard level IQ.

1. if you are a staunch shia, shouldn't you and your supreme dai follow the example of ali to keep islam and muslims united or do the opposite by abusing and saying laanats, sowing hatred and division amongst muslims???
2. by making blasphemous statements like "rasullah sa kept the three shaitans near him knowing fully well", are you implying a. that the prophet sought the company of shaitans? b. that he was a weak and impotent prophet who was scared of the power of the so-called usurpers?? c. that he was stupid and knowingly brought harm upon his family???

the funniest part is that a dai worshipping kafir like you is asking others to account..

[ghulam muhammed]

Mr.GHaliz,

One is amazed to see that the Shias/Bohras weep over the martyrdom of Imam Hussein(a.s.) whereas they never weep over the martyrdom of his brother Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib and over the martyrdom of his son Abu Bakr. Those who bear those names are from the Ahlul Bayt also. Why negligence? Is it because they have names which are disliked by the Shias/Bohras and by announcing it to their Shia/Bohra listeners would expose the love of the Ahlul Bayt to the companions especially to Abu Bakr and Umar?

Shiite muhaditeen like Abu Faraj al-Isfahani in his Muqatil at-Talibeen-p.88,142,188; Al-Arbali in his Kashful Ghumamah vol.2,p.64; and Majlisi in Jila el-ou’ioun 582 stated that amongst those who were martyred with Hussein (a.s.) in Karbala were Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib and Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Why doesn’t the ceremonies held during Ashoora not mention the names of the following who were martyred with Hussein (a.s.):

Umar ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Uthman ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Uthman ibn Hussein ibn Ali.

[humble_servant_us]

There were around 72 martyrs in karbala (in some texts more than than) but during muharram majlis only narration of few are recited due to obvious time reasons. It has nothing to do with the names of shaheeds. Every martyr in karbala is highly esteemed personality and well revered by bohras and shias. Peace be upon all the martyrs of Karbala.

What you have brought fwd is just corrupting young minds and creating a rift in the sects.

Mr. Asgharali engineer is not in good books of Bohras but it doesn't mean Bohras hate all people with the name Asgharali.

[profastian]

The zikr of Mohammad bin Abi Bakr(Abu Bakr's son) is done very often... That shoots down you theory

[Mubarak]

One is amazed to see that the Shias/Bohras weep over the martyrdom of Imam Hussein(a.s.) whereas they never weep over the martyrdom of his brother Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib and over the martyrdom of his son Abu Bakr. Those who bear those names are from the Ahlul Bayt also. Why negligence? Is it because they have names which are disliked by the Shias/Bohras and by announcing it to their Shia/Bohra listeners would expose the love of the Ahlul Bayt to the companions especially to Abu Bakr and Umar?

Why doesn’t the ceremonies held during Ashoora not mention the names of the following who were martyred with Hussein (a.s.):

Umar ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Uthman ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abu Bakr ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hassan ibn Ali
Abu Bakr ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Umar ibn Hussein ibn Ali
Uthman ibn Hussein ibn Ali.

One more lie from Ghulam Muhammad.

On the day of Aashura, after Asr prayers, whole gathering of Dawoodi Bohras vociferously sent 'Rehmat' prayers to Sayyadi Umar bin Ali, Sayyadi Abubakr bin Ali, sayyadi Usman bin Ali... and 'Lanat' on Sunni leaders who murdered them.

[asif786]

GM

The shia and DBs view is very clear , we love those who were loyal to Mohammed saw and his holy progeny and hate those who has done injustice to them . We have been following this from 1400 years and inshallah till the day of judgement we will not change our opinion . Unlike other muslims who have accepted ALi as righly guided caliph after 230AH during Imam Hambals time

[ghulam muhammed]

One more lie from Ghulam Muhammad.

On the day of Aashura, after Asr prayers, whole gathering of Dawoodi Bohras vociferously sent 'Rehmat' prayers to Sayyadi Umar bin Ali, Sayyadi Abubakr bin Ali, sayyadi Usman bin Ali

Mubarak abde Raj,

What lie are you talking about ? Get a random check on bohras and see for yourself as to how many of them are actually even aware of the above personalities least of all they being martyred in the land of Karbala. And if at all their names are mentioned then it is news to me because I havent heard the dai mentioning them in his vayez, although I must admit that I have not attended any bohra vayez since the past 20 years.

And as you admit that Panjatan pak (a.s.) named their siblings Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman then why does the dai PROHIBIT bohras from naming their chidren the same ? Show me a single bohra with the said names. So why does the dai put a BLANKET BAN on something for which Panjatan pak (a.s.) had no problem whatsoever ? Is he above Mola Ali (a.s.), Hussain (a.s.) and Hasan (a.s.) (Nauzubillah) ?

and 'Lanat' on Sunni leaders who murdered them

And why NO LANAT on the Shias of Kufa who were the real VILLIANS and solely responsible for the battle of karbala and if not for their BETRAYAL of Imam Hussain (a.s.), the said battle would have never taken place and the Shohadas wouldnt have met such a tragic death.

[ghulam muhammed]

are progs shias or not ?

GHALIZ,

Are people like you, abde syednas or not ?

if yes then what is the view of the progs on the nass on moula als sa by rasullah sa on ghadire khum

If yes then what is their view on Taizun Shakir and Syedul Kher ?

do they agree with all other shias dawoodi bohras included that umer la slapped and whipped maa fatema when she wa pregnant or not

Do youll agree that Shakir who is related to the dai had to run away at midnight due to fear of his life and death threats from insiders of saifee mahal? Do you shower laanats on them and if so then when and how ? Do youll agree that Mazun-e-dawat, Khuzema bhaisaab has been rightfully appointed by your dai and that you should have full faith and love in him as per bohra school of thought. If so then do you shower laanat on Syedul Kher who had got the mazoon's car pelted with stones in surat by his hired goondas and that mazoon's son had to step out of the car and bash up those goons. If you shower laanats on Kher then when and where and how often do you do that ?

[Mubarak]

and 'Lanat' on Sunni leaders who murdered them

And why NO LANAT on the Shias of Kufa who were the real VILLIANS and solely responsible for the battle of karbala and if not for their BETRAYAL of Imam Hussain (a.s.), the said battle would have never taken place and the Shohadas wouldnt have met such a tragic death.

May Almighty Allah shower Lanat on all those Shias of Kufa and in whole world who have betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.).

[aziz]

may allah say rehmat on all i repeat all the 72 shohodas of kerbala and laanat on all their dushmans then and now,including the dushmans now who refuse shias to do matam or buka on imam hussein sa in their places of domicile .

may allah also say laanat on all those who did zulm on the family of rasullah sa including the shaitan who usuped maula ali sa and the one who slapped moulatena fatima sa.

and may allah also say laanat on those who do adawat of imams and duat mutlaqin and catch them all wherever they are.,

[SBM]

^
and the Lanaat to all who have gone astray from the teaching of Quran, and those who create Fitna and dis-unite the Ummah of Prophet Mohammed (saw)

[aziz]

for once and only this once i think all of us ortho dawoodi bohras agree with the hypocrate bohra food loving and sabil paying omadonkey

[SBM]

Aziz
I am not going to foul my mouth by calling you names, but for your information, I am not Sabil paying member and I do not go for Jaman either. Some of the Orthos (who I do respect ) know who am I and I do not have to defend myself to people like you.

[ghulam muhammed]

May Almighty Allah shower Lanat on all those Shias of Kufa and in whole world who have betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.).

may allah say rehmat on all i repeat all the 72 shohodas of kerbala and laanat on all their dushmans then and now

We hear bohras say... "Aa waqt mola ye su shaan nu NAVU bayan farmayu", although after going thru the entire tapes one would never find anything of that sort. However "hame aa waqt ek navu bayan zaroor farmayu", anyway jokes apart, Iam never of the view of showering lanats on anyone especially the dead bcoz they have reached their akebat and it is for Allah to decide ones fate and we are no one to judge them as history has been presented to different people in different ways. By showering lanats, Allah is not going to increase His punishment on them. Hence it is in ones best interest that instead of wasting time and energy on showering lanats one tries to follow the principles of those great souls who have laid down their lives for the sake of Islam and the ummah and more importantly for the unity of the ummah.

[profastian]

May Almighty Allah shower Lanat on all those Shias of Kufa and in whole world who have betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.).

may allah say rehmat on all i repeat all the 72 shohodas of kerbala and laanat on all their dushmans then and now

We hear bohras say... "Aa waqt mola ye su shaan nu NAVU bayan farmayu", although after going thru the entire tapes one would never find anything of that sort. However "hame aa waqt ek navu bayan zaroor farmayu", anyway jokes apart, Iam never of the view of showering lanats on anyone especially the dead bcoz they have reached their akebat and it is for Allah to decide ones fate and we are no one to judge them as history has been presented to different people in different ways. By showering lanats, Allah is not going to increase His punishment on them. Hence it is in ones best interest that instead of wasting time and energy on showering lanats one tries to follow the principles of those great souls who have laid down their lives for the sake of Islam and the ummah and more importantly for the unity of the ummah.

What about showering lanats on Iblees? Do you or do you not endorse that?

[ghulam muhammed]

What about showering lanats on Iblees? Do you or do you not endorse that?

Was Iblees a Human being ? It is better to first try and understand the concept of iblees.

[profastian]

What about showering lanats on Iblees? Do you or do you not endorse that?

Was Iblees a Human being ? It is better to first try and understand the concept of iblees.

So please be kind enough and enlighten us with the 'concept of iblees'.