is this true?

[incredible]

BIsmillah al rahman al rahim...

found this some where on this website is this true?


So before you make a comment about the Aga Khan and his followers next time, you may want to reflect before you type. Many of your community members, Mustaali Dawoodi-Bohras, Ithnnasharis, and others alike take advantage and get treatment from the Aga Khan Hospitals, Clinics, etc., you send your children to Aga Khan Schools, Universities, etc, obtain personal and business loans from Nizari Ismaili Muslim banks and institutions, get funds from him and the community to build your Masjids and Madressas. How about the embarrasing situation of His Holiness Dai Sayedna Burhanuddin who was arrested in Tanzania at some point in the last 20 to 30 years for apparent money extortion from his followers and laundering charges...who helped him out at that time of crisis??? His followers could not do anything, the apparent hidden Imam you guys revere did not do anything...your Imam did not appear out of blue/from the sky & clouds, and or cave. It was not me, not you, or the Mostmerciful dot com fellow, nor the Wahabbi Saudis, who helped out. Answer -> It was the ever present, ever living, (Hazar Imam), that Allah (swt) promised mankind till the Day of Judgement, who helped His Holiness out of his situation. On the other hand, however, you and your community members mock the Aga Khan IV, who is from lineage of Ahlul Bayt, from Ali thru Bibi Fatema onwards. Do you/we see something wrong with the bigger picture here?

[ghulam muhammed]

How about the embarrasing situation of His Holiness Dai Sayedna Burhanuddin who was arrested in Tanzania at some point in the last 20 to 30 years for apparent money extortion from his followers and laundering charges...who helped him out at that time of crisis??? His followers could not do anything, the apparent hidden Imam you guys revere did not do anything...your Imam did not appear out of blue/from the sky & clouds, and or cave. It was not me, not you, or the Mostmerciful dot com fellow, nor the Wahabbi Saudis, who helped out. Answer -> It was the ever present, ever living, (Hazar Imam)

How ironical.... The so called Imam-uz-zaman's dai has to take help from a so called living Imam instead of the Imam in purdah with whom he claims to have regular contact. Even the Imam in purdah backed out after learning about the dai's illegal activities.

[porus]

found this some where on this website is this true?


How about the embarrasing situation of His Holiness Dai Sayedna Burhanuddin who was arrested in Tanzania at some point in the last 20 to 30 years for apparent money extortion from his followers and laundering charges...who helped him out at that time of crisis??? His followers could not do anything, the apparent hidden Imam you guys revere did not do anything...your Imam did not appear out of blue/from the sky & clouds, and or cave. It was not me, not you, or the Mostmerciful dot com fellow, nor the Wahabbi Saudis, who helped out. Answer -> It was the ever present, ever living, (Hazar Imam), that Allah (swt) promised mankind till the Day of Judgement, who helped His Holiness out of his situation. On the other hand, however, you and your community members mock the Aga Khan IV, who is from lineage of Ahlul Bayt, from Ali thru Bibi Fatema onwards. Do you/we see something wrong with the bigger picture here?

I do not believe that this description is accurate. Sayedna was not arrested but ordered to leave Tanzania within 24 hours. He was deported for illegal activity according to Government of Tanzania. I also believe that help was sought from Abdulkareem Karimjee Jivanjee because he was then the Speaker of Tanzanian Legislature. Of course, in the light of evidence, the Speaker who was sworn to defend the Tanzanian Constitution could not do much to help. Nor could Aga Khan, if at all, he was approached for help. I do not believe Aga Khan was approached. (I think that Kothar would not have wanted to put Aga Khan in an embarrassing situation when they were aware of their guilt. But local reformists were fair game).This was 2 or 3 years after Independence and under idealized leadership of Julius Nyerere, corruption had not yet set in the Government.

Bohras, of course, absolved Sayedna of any wrong doing which is unthinkable for them. Instead, Sayedna put out a bulletin saying that Government charges were false and were instigated by dissidents in the Bohra community who had engineered this unfortunate incident. Although not specifically named, Karimjee family was primarily blamed for the episode and life for some of the 'reformists' was made hell afterward.

I am stating this from memory because I was in DaresSalaam when this episode happened.

[I would like to add that deportation of what the Government considered 'undesirables' had been effectively used by the Government soon after independence. It started with a case when the Mayor of DaresSalaam was insulted and thrown out of British-owned bar/cafe because the establishment did not serve blacks. Subsequently several British were deported for similar behavior and ordered to leave the country within 24 hours. They were given no time to wind up their affairs.]

[incredible]

thankyou porus for clearing this up....agha khanis seems to be a masters in lying.

[ozmujaheed]

before a Khoja throws stones remember your faith is based on lies too..your Aga Khan may be famous but his deeds do not reflect he is an Islamic leader or practises islam..even if he may have Ahlul Bayt genes. Have you read press reports on the personal life of your Aga Khans, his wife, background, his kids their affairs , horse racing .

Aga Khan jamaat khana are segregated places, when I tried to go and a have a causal look on one Friday evening I was denied entrance..why because they practise some strange rituals that non Khojas should not see.

Aga Khanis never give free loans to Bohras unless on commercial terms, kids attending schools pay full school fees, in return Aga Khan gets publicity in African press as very charitable, Aga Khan hospitals charge full public rates to Bohras. There is nothing to be grateful after a price is paid.

Why did a pious Aga Khan help our corrupt Sayedna in Tanzania?

I can go on but I am not on this website to reform Khojas...hey but at the end of the end of the day we are one Bohras even if progs, abdes or others and will unite against outsiders' attacks.

By the way why are Aga Khanis here dont they have their own website to blog about your issues ?

[aftabm]

By the way why are Aga Khanis here dont they have their own website to blog about your issues ?

Br OzMujaheed,

May i Request you to refrain from making such statements. You may defend your faith or ask questions, please do not ask any one to leave this board.

I am sure you would appreciate this small request....

[Smart]

thankyou porus for clearing this up....agha khanis seems to be a masters in lying.

It is not about aga khanis only, it is about abdes, whether they are abde aga khan or abde syedna. They have to resort to lies to defend the indefensible.

[salim]

ozmujaheed, incredible

I apologize if I am hurting you by being here. I am reading this forum from last 10 years. I am trying to understand how and why people believe in their form of religion.

When I see people lying about Aga khan and ismailis, I speak out.

I have heard about the above incident in Africa that incredible have posted, not from any authentic source, but as a form of gossip. Since I have not heard it from authentic source it may or may not be correct.

In my past 10 years of experience I can tell you one thing. I have seen a few people just blaming Aga khan for things he has never done. And they do this on regular basis. I do understand that this is also a platform for some to feel the liberty which they can't get it in real life. But why to saying something wrong of someone who has not harmed you.

[ozmujaheed]

Salim and aftabm I am prepared to withdraw my comments if you can clarify reasonably which of my paragraph above is false ?

[Muslim First]

Salim Bhai

Just once, Please post a translation of Aga Khani Ismaili Shahada.

Why are you avoiding my repeat requests? There must be some reason!!!!

[Smart]

To all apologists of Maulas, whether aga khan or syedna, here is big competition to your money grabbing master. They are small timers in comparison to this.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp ... akshmi.asp

[salim]

Dear ozmujaheed,

I do believe that a lot of your post is correct. I do disagree with ismailis who through stones on others. Here is the part of your comment I disagree with.

before a Khoja throws stones remember your faith is based on lies too..your Aga Khan may be famous but his deeds do not reflect he is an Islamic leader or practises islam..even if he may have Ahlul Bayt genes.

Atleast we ismailis don't believe that our faith is based on lies, otherwise why would we be following it. This does not mean I am saying all others are wrong. We ismailis don't believe that all other faiths are wrong either.

For ismailis deeds of aga khan do reflect Islam and only Islam.

Have you read press reports on the personal life of your Aga Khans, his wife, background, his kids their affairs , horse racing .

Very similar to prophet Muhammad personal life. Look at prophet Muhammad's life Biwi Aysha, cruel sahabas who were related to the prophet, horse racing etc. Horse racing is Sunnah. Prophet muhammad was a big fan of horse racing. There are numerous hadiths that support this. See my last comment I have posted over 5 hadiths that both Sunnis and Shias agrees with. There are many more.

One can make as many stories about Aga Khan as they can make it for Muhammad. And then comes fake/false stories. Visit any anti muslim form and you will see a lot of bad stories about muhammad.

But this does not make Muhammad bad. Same thing with Aga Khan.

[Muslim First]

Salim Bhai

You said

Very similar to prophet Muhammad personal life. Look at prophet Muhammad's life Biwi Aysha, cruel sahabas who were related to the prophet, horse racing etc. Horse racing is Sunnah. Prophet muhammad was a big fan of horse racing. There are numerous hadiths that support this. See my last comment I have posted over 5 hadiths that both Sunnis and Shias agrees with. There are many more.

This is a Bohra and reform Section

I as a Muslim take some exception to your last post.

I do not want turn this into Shia/Sunni or Muslim/Aga Khani issue. But please clerify the following:

Look at prophet Muhammad's life Biwi Aysha

Can you tell me what was wrong with her? Tell me what bad things Prophet said about her?

cruel sahabas who were related to the prophet

Can you name them. Can you describe their cruelty in Prophet's words?

Prophet muhammad was a big fan of horse racing. There are numerous hadiths that support this.

Correct

Can you tell me if this horse racing was a gambling enterprise? People bet on it, Some of them lost lifes savings, Did Prophet's horse got prize from gambling proceeds? Bacause horses won races and horse become famous his value increses and did prophet make business out of it?

Please post answer here.

is this true? Cont.
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=5608

[Smart]

^
Breeding horses as transport in the days of Rasulallah was a necessity. Since when did horse racing for betting become a sunnat? Do we have the intellectual capability and honesty to differentiate between the two?

So, when we see your princes romping around half nude, will you justify that horsing around is sunnat?

[Muslim First]

They are not my princes

There are no princes in Islam

Thesae are human beings pretending to be Muslim

[salim]

Dear Smart

Since when did horse racing for betting become a sunnat?

Aga Khan do not bet on horses, he is at least not an idiot to bet on horses and loose money. He just bread horses. Are we going to go and ask coach of a football team to stop teaching people how to play football because, some other people bet on the team that play football?

Breeding horses as transport in the days of Rasulallah was a necessity.

Please read this authentic hadiths, they are not talking about hourse for just transport, after reading these hadiths you tell me what's wrong and whats right

*****Dawud, Book 14, Number 2570:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to make lean by training horses which he employed in the race .

*****Dawud, Book 14, Number 2571:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to hold a race between horses and kept the one in the fifth year at a long distance.

*****Dawud, Book 14, Number 2573:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If one enters a horse with two others when he is not certain that it cannot be beaten, it is not gambling; but when one enters a horse with two others when he is certain it cannot be beaten,
it is gambling.

And here are a few more Hadiths

*****Dawud, Book 14, Number 2575:
Narrated Imran ibn Husayn:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There must be no shouting or leading another horse at one's side. Yahya added in his tradition: When racing for a wager.

*****Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 412:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle ordered for a horse race; the trained horses were to run from a place called Al-Hafya' to Thaniyat Al-Wada' and the horses which were not trained were to run from Al-Thaniya to the Masjid (mosque of) Bani Zuraiq.

The sub narrator added: Ibn Umar was one of those who took part in the race.

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 120:
Narrated ('Abdullah) bin 'Umar:
The Prophet arranged for a horse race amongst the horses that had been made
lean to take place between Al-Hafya'' and Thaniyat Al-Wada' (i.e. names of
two places) and the horses which had not been made lean from Ath-Thaniyat to
the mosque of Bani Zuraiq.
I was also amongst those who took part in that horse race. Sufyan, a
sub-narrator, said, "The distance between Al-Hafya and Thaniya Al-Wada' is
five or six miles; and between Thaniya and the mosque of Bani Zuraiq is one
mile."

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 121:
Narrated Abdullah:
The Prophet arranged for a horse race of the horses which had not been made
lean; the area of the race was from Ath-Thaniya to the mosque of Bani
Zuraiq.
The sub-narrator said, "'Abdullah bin 'Umar was amongst those who
participated in that horse race."

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 122:
Narrated Abu Ishaq from Musa bin 'Uqba from Mafia from Ibn 'Umar who said:

"Allah's Apostle arranged a horse race amongst the horses that had been made
lean, letting them start from Al-Hafya' and their limit (distance of
running)
was up to Thaniyat-al-Wada'. I asked Musa, 'What was the distance between
the
two places?' Musa replied, 'Six or seven miles. He arranged a race of the
horses which had not been made lean sending them from Thaniyat-al-Wada', and
their limit was up to the mosque of Bani Zuraiq.'
I asked, 'What was the distance between those two places?' He replied 'One
mile or so.' Ibn 'Umar was amongst those who participated in that horse
race."

*****Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 436:
Narrated Nafi:
Abdullah said, "The Prophet arranged for a horse race, and the prepared
horses were given less food for a few days before the race to win the race,
and were allowed to run from Al-Hafya to Thaniyat-al-Wada', and the
unprepared horses were allowed to run between Thaniyat-al-Wada' and the
mosque of Bani Zuraiq," 'Abdullah was one of those who participated in the
race.'

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 839:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A horse may be kept for one of three purposes: for a man
it may be a source of reward; for another it may be a means of living; and
for a third it may be a burden (a source of committing sins). As for the one
for whom it is a source of reward, he is the one who keeps his horse for the
sake of Jihad in Allah's Cause; he ties it with a long rope on a pasture or
in a garden. So whatever its rope allows it to eat, will be regarded as good
rewardable deeds (for its owner). And if it breaks off its rope and jumps
over one or two hillocks, even its dung will be considered amongst his good
deeds. And if it passes by a river and drinks water from it, that will be
considered as good deeds for his benefit) even if he has had no intention of
watering it.
A horse is a shelter for the one who keeps it so that he may earn his living
honestly and takes it as a refuge to keep him from following illegal ways
(of
gaining money), and does not forget the rights of Allah (i.e. paying the
Zakat and allowing others to use it for Allah's Sake). But a horse is a
burden (and a source of committing sins for him who keeps it out of pride
and
pretense and with the intention of harming the Muslims."
The Prophet was asked about donkeys. He replied, "Nothing has been revealed
to be concerning them except this comprehensive Verse (which covers
everything) :--'Then whosoever has done good equal to the weight of an atom
(or a small ant), Shall see it (its reward) And whosoever has done evil
equal
to the weight of an atom (or a small ) ant), Shall see it (Its punishment)."
(99.7-8)

*****Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 40, Number 559:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Keeping horses may be a source of reward to some
(man), a shelter to another (i.e. means of earning one's living), or a
burden
to a third. He to whom the horse will be a source of reward is the one who
keeps it in Allah's Cause (prepare it for holy battles) and ties it by a
long
rope in a pasture (or a garden). He will get a reward equal to what its long
rope allows it to eat in the pasture or the garden, and if that horse
breaks its rope and crosses one or two hills, then all its foot-steps and
its
dung will be counted as good deeds for its owner; and if it passes by a
river and drinks from it, then that will also be regarded as a good deed for
its owner even if he has had no intention of watering it then.
Horses are a shelter from poverty to the second person who keeps horses for
earning his living so as not to ask others, and at the same time he gives
Allah's right (i.e. Zakat, from the wealth he earns through using them in
trading etc.,) and does not overburden them. He who keeps horses just out of
pride and for showing off and as a means of harming the Muslims, his horses
will be a source of sins to him." When Allah's Apostle was asked about
donkeys, he replied, "Nothing particular was revealed to me regarding
donkeys."

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 837:
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "There is always goodness in horses till the Day of
Resurrection. "

*****Muslim, Book 19, Number 4614:
Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
"I saw that the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was twisting the
forelock of a horse with his fingers and was saying: (A great) benefit, i.e.
reward (for rearing them for Jihad) and spoils of war, has been tied to the
forelocks of horses until the Day of Judgment."

[ozmujaheed]

Salim, thank you for clarifying your views about Aga Khans character but that was expected since you seem to be orthodox Ismaili, what about the other points ?

Mind you I disagree totally what the Sayedna preaches and practises I am only excercising my ethnic Bohra right to resist material and psychological oppression from Kothar.

Abdes can not take away my race, tribe and ethnicity away, the day many bohras accept that Bohraism is their birth right Kothars control will weaken until they go about and create a completely different ethic race with people looking dadhi topi, saya rida dressing and lisane dawat speaking in unique ways which is what they are gradually succeeding in

[aftabm]

Salim and aftabm I am prepared to withdraw my comments if you can clarify reasonably which of my paragraph above is false ?

Br. OzMujahid,

My only request was that no one should ask any one to leave this board. I hope this clarifies.

[Muslim First]

deleted

[Muslim First]

Salim

I like your spirited defense of your MHI. You Aga Khanis are very good at it. You will hadith which support your stand, whatever it may be. Your MHI is in Hospitality business big time. His hotels serve and sell Alcohol. Many Ismailis own hotels with dining facilities. According to following Hadith it is forbidden to get involved in anything to do with it.
Selling and Buying Alcohol

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik(r.a.)

Allah's Messenger(sallallahu alaiyhi wasallam)cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought. Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it.

Horse breeding it similar. Read the following;

Horse breeding for races
http://www.islamicity.org/dialogue/Q257.HTM

Q257 :In India,
the only type of sport gambling which is allowed by the law is that of horse racing. Owners of horses which run in races are paid a fixed rate of stake money, which is determined before the season and does not change whether a horse wins or loses. I happen to be a horse lover and it is the enjoyment of my life to breed and train horses. If I run my hoses in races will that be allowed? I neither gamble nor encourage gambling on my horses. The whole idea of gambling does not appeal to me in any way, because I know it is forbidden. However, breeding horses and training them to be able to win races gives me much enjoyment and provides me with income. Perhaps I should state that a person like me would have to incur a great deal of money in order to get a horse in shape for racing. My question is whether it is permissible to breed, train, ride, own, buy and sell such horses? Moreover, is the money earned from running horses in races also permissible? May I say that I have a clear conscience about this. For me, the most interesting sport is horse racing. Whether in the capacity of an owner, trainer, jockey, commentator, critic or a breeder, horse racing gives me great pleasure. I only want to know whether Islam permits it.

Answer________________________________________
A257 : My reader seems to be in a little bit of a difficult position. He is not interested in the gambling that takes place on horse racing. He simply wants the enjoyment of breeding, training, and riding horses, and possibly the investment that goes with it. This gives him a clear conscience, but still he feels something within him telling him that Islam may not approve of all this. It is that feeling I am interested in. Why should my reader entertain such a feeling, when horse riding as a sport is perfectly permissible? Similarly, the breeding, training and dealing with horses are all blameless pursuits. It is definitely the gambling that goes with all that which gives him that slight suspicion that he may be helping a process or a business of which Islam does not approve. He knows that gambling is forbidden in Islam and he does not get involved in it, but he realizes that he is going close to it. It is one of the points of strength of the Islamic faith that it develops such a keen sense among its followers that they want all their actions to be permissible and blameless, so that they do not incur God's displeasure. Indeed, Islam goes further than that and encourages followers not to come near to doubtful matters. Consider the following Hadith related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim on the authority of An-Nu'man ibn Bashir who heard God's Messenger say: "That which is lawful is plain and that which is unlawful is [also] plain, and between the two of them are doubtful matters of which many people remain unaware. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be well, all body is well, and which if it be diseased, all the body is diseased. Truly it is the heart. " Perhaps, my reader does not get involved in gambling, but he is aware that he comes close to it. Hence, the example cited by the Prophet about the shepherd grazing very close to the sanctuary applies to him. The sanctuary, as defined by the Prophet, is the prohibitions God has laid down. I will give my reader an example. After careful study, a farmer realizes that the best fruits he could get out of his land are grapes. He takes very good care of his land and manages to get seeds of top quality. After a few years, he has the great satisfaction of having some of the best grapes in the area. This farmer is a Muslim, but he lives in a country where Muslims are in minority. Most people in his society are in the habit of drinking. There is a very good business in drinks. A brewing company approaches him with an offer to buy all his produce because it makes top quality drinks. When the farmer considers the offer, he finds that it gives him a much higher price than what he is ever likely to get if he sells his produce in the vegetable and fruit market. Moreover, arrangements will be made so that he does not have to worry about collection and transport. To him the offer makes very good business. Encouraging him, some people suggest that with his greater profit, he will be able to give a handsome portion to the poor. Should he go ahead and accept the offer by the brewery? The answer is a definite NO. By selling his grapes to a company, knowing that the grapes will be used to manufacture something which is forbidden to drink, he will be helping this type of business. Somebody may suggest that if he does not sell to the brewing company, other farmers will. True, but let other farmers do what they want; he should not put himself in a position where his business is geared to the manufacture of intoxicating drinks. If he accepts the offer, his earnings will be from a forbidden source. As such, they are not legitimate. My reader is in a very similar position. He does not gamble himself, but he is certainly helping and aiding a forbidden practice. Horse racing is a major enterprise, indeed a complete industry in non-Muslim countries. Getting involved with it so heavily is simply lending a helpful hand. That is not allowed to a Muslim. My reader knows that gambling is forbidden, and horse racing has become a major field of gambling. As such, everything designed to help this type of gambling flourish is forbidden. While there is nothing wrong with the breeding and riding of, and dealing with horses, but when that is geared toward serving a gambling sport, it becomes forbidden. I can say to my reader either to change the purpose of his business so as to make all his efforts geared toward legitimate practices or to leave this business altogether.

(It looks like questioner probably was Karim Ali Solomon)

Now, how about posting translation of Ismaili Shahada.

[salim]

Dear OzMujahid,

I agree with most of your other objections partially or completely. In terms of me being orthodox Muslim, I don't 'think' I am orthodox and most of the ismailis are not orthodox (at least they like to think they are not orthodox). Without being partial we can define Orthodox and liberal as follows

Orthodox - Pays great respect to its past, and traditions. They want to follow everything as it is, with no change at all. Even if their beliefs hurts a portion of the population. Usually you see a shift in policies of orthodox towards progressive when the number of people getting hurt increases, but orthodox don't like to change things, if their deeds is hurting not very big portion of the population.

Progressives - They are more close to liberals, but sometimes may also be very religious. Progressives are optimistic, creative and making progress away from old-fashioned virtues and toward a new world with constantly improving rules. They change the rules even if a small portion of population is getting hurt by their rules. They are more just to everyone.

For progressives initially it is tough to develop faster and be progressive as you don't want to hurt anyone, whereas for Orthodox development can be faster because they are ok leaving a part behind which they think are not following the rules. But after a while both grows at similar speed.

Most of the Ismailis believe we are progressives.

[ozmujaheed]

Salimbhai - Happy New Year and I call a truce between Ismaili issues and myself..I have to focus on Bohras ! This is not a defeat from my side as I only have a few moments on this site and furthermore because the likelyhood is any deviants from Bohras will either end up as Sunni, IthnaAsheri, agnostic or culturally Bohras so Aga Khani ideology is not an option, opportunity or threat.

[salim]

Dear Ozmujaheed,

Happy New year!!!!!