Wajebaats from Children

[SBM]

What is happening, this is from Seattle Jamat, now they are training Children to start giving at early age so they do not question when they get older. GREED HAS NO LIMITS

As per message from Moez bs...
Like we have been doing every year, all Farzando can partake in the barakat of submitting wajebaat this year as well. Janab Moez bs will sit for farzando wajebaat bethak on Saturday (8/13) at 8:15 pm, right after Quran no Dor and Bayan. Recommended amount is $27 per child (cash).
Was Salaam,
Abde Syedna (TUS)
Shabbir Jamali

[Aymelek]

In gulf countries this is a prevalent practice since 3-4 years, all madressa going farzando are asked to come on a particular date and do araz of wajebaat to the Bhaisaheb or Aaamil. Additionally, they are to bring stuffed covers for salaam. Whilst I am not sure if minimum amount of wajebaat is mentioned.

[aqs]

isnt childhood the best time to inculcate good habits, so why shouldnt kids be taught to pay wajebaat early in life.

[londonwala]

As I understand it, zakat is obligatory and is fixed (2.5%). Wajibaat is a Bohra invention, it replaces zakat, and requires us to pay as much as we are willing and able to do for the sake of “barakat”. Every year, the “raza na saheb” sees how much you paid last year, adds 20% or so to that figure, and tries to get you to agree. The more obstinate you are, the less you pay, because you bargain that figure down. Those Bohras who are more orthodox pay more because they are more likely to accept the figure that they are told to pay.

As I understand it, children should not pay zakat if they have no savings or assets. However, because wajibaat is all about paying as much as you can in the name of “barakat”, dawat wants all children to pay wajibaat so that it can indoctrinate them into this ritual system of having to automatically pay more each year. Then they will just continue to accept this when they become adults. This point was made by London amil saheb in his bayan last week when he talked about the criticisms that people make about children paying wajibaat. His argument was that those who did not pay wajibaat when they were young are the ones who, when they are older, no longer pay wajibaat at all, nor do they attend masjid, ie they leave the community.

[SBM]

Aqs

isnt childhood the best time to inculcate good habits, so why shouldnt kids be taught to pay wajebaat early in life.

Br. Aqs
Is not Zakaat, Khumms and Nazarul Maqam and other Najwas are part of Wajebaat. How can children pay them if they are earning any thing .
If you want to inculate good habits how about getting children not to play with their cell phone, I phones while sitting in Markaz during the Majlis. why not get these children to do social work like joining Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts in USA and have them go and help people during Natural Disasters like in Haiti or now in East Africa, working with National Disaster Relief Organizations instead of teaching them to pay Wajebaats and control Majaalis. How about encouraging young children to become part of real sports and join National teams instead of playing crickets in front of an Aamil to bring him the Khushi? How many sportsmen do Bohra have at National or International level
How many Bohras can you point out to me for doing kind of social work at International level working with other relief agencies
Brother Aqs I suppose your priorities are also little be skewed about indoctrination of young generation

[anajmi]

isnt childhood the best time to inculcate good habits, so why shouldnt kids be taught to pay wajebaat early in life.

What a travesty that we are witnessing amongst brainwashed abdes!!!

[Humsafar]

Yup, childhood is the best time to brainwash them into becoming obedient, wajebat-paying, dai-worshping, cloned slaves!

[Fatwa Banker]

Farzando can also partake in e-Wajebaat by texting "abde" on their cell phones. This results in instant barakat without having to sit through Quran no Dor and Bayan.

$27 is a smoking hot deal at it represents a 48% discount off the regular price of $52. For a limited time only

[simple]

i think this is not new topic .15 year back i have paid wajebaat to these b....... when i was kid . they told me your income is your iddi and you have to calculate your wajebaat accordingly .

[anajmi]

aqs is one of them. He is on the other side of the table and wouldn't mind taking a share from kid's iddies (Eidi, I would say) and promise them barakaat in return. Barakaat of returning every year to fill the thieves' pockets.

The abde idiots should be teaching kids to spend money in helping the poor. Instead they are being taught to pay money to these thugs.

[aqs]

@All
as i see that i have touched a raw nerve over here i'll try to project my views in another way. When do we start inculcating religious view in our kids, i think just as soon as they get a little bit of sense, teaching toddlers to say salaam to elders is not new in most families, we teach Kids Daims of Islam mainly Salaat and Swam at an early age and infact their is a Hadith that the kid should start offering his salaat by the age of 7 and by 10 have all the right to spank kid if he does not offer his salat. We do this because we think its the best for the kid, do we give kid any choice, in most cases NO.

Now the bone of contention is kids paying wajebaat or in plain terms money which they have not even earned. Its a token amount which is taken to teach kids one of the daim of Islam (DB version if you would like to say it).

['sauga dude]

Email from Mississauga madrassa:

Salaam Jameel!

Dear Waledain,

Har saal Aqa Moula tus ni khushi waaste ane Farzando ni terbiyat thai te waaste Madresa na farzando vajebaat araz kare che , Farzando , ne cover ma Aqa moula na Najwa ane bija cover ma Nazrul Maqam & Vajebaat mokalvu.

Je raqam Farzando waaste Nazrul Maqam maane che ane farzando ne pocket money aapva ma aave che ehna c farzando Vajebaat araz kare,

Saturday 13th August Madresa ma Vajebaat ni bethak thaase Amil Saheb na hath per farzando potana Vajebaat araz karse Inshallah, ane Dua waaste araz karse.

Please send your child with above mentioned covers and their name and E Jamaat number should be written on the cover.If E jamaat is not available only name and Grade can be written.



Wassalaam
Jamali Madrasah
Mississauga, ON

[ghulam muhammed]

Aqa Moula tus ni khushi waaste

If you want to see a big GRIN on the dai's face then show him the green bucks $$$$$, nothing else matters.

Farzando ni terbiyat thai te waaste

What "Terbiyat" ??? Are they giving a crash course on wealth management ????

farzando ne pocket money aapva ma aave che ehna c farzando Vajebaat araz kare,

I think they are also giving a course on "Investment Ideas".

[Biradar]

Actually, I think the children should pay a lot of money to Aqua Mola and Beloved Mansoos (TUS, RA, SAW, DM). The reasons are nothing to do with inculcating good habits, but simple and straightforward logic. Here is why:

First, children get a lot of free services. For example, if they go to public school they learn for free. Hence, the teachers salary must be counted as their "income". Hence, the child "earns" in this way almost 100,000 dollars a year, counting all the teachers salary. Even if we count 2.5% of this it comes to $2500. Note that as child does not actually spend this money (it is funny-money) all of it is savings.

Second, children need to prepare for the future. See, if they pay $10 now they will earn back $700 in the future! So the more they give now the more they will earn in the future. Hence, children should not worry too much about grades or study, but just concern themselves more with how to give money to dai and Beloved Mansoos. After all, these two luminous personalities give you your daily bread! Can't you spare a small sum for them?!!

Hence, I have proved in a mathematical and logical way that wajebaat is compulsory on children and in fact more and more needs to be paid. So please stop complaining and pay up.

[anajmi]

I sincerely hope and pray during the ramadan that Allah saves the kids of these abde idiots from these parasites and teaches them true Islamic values like helping the poor and not paying extortion to these thugs. These kotharis are nothing more than hafta vasooli goondas whom you have to pay for protection from themselves.

[ozmujaheed]

If the idea is to teach a tradition then why not start with an empty envelop, and when my kid starts working at the pizza joint he will inshallah fill it !

[SDhankot]

I think Wajebaats from children is not proper. Unfortunately, I lack the proper words to express my sadness on this matter, but I can only say one thing.
Dawoodi Bohras are living outside the fold of Islam, and we are subjected to commit to many procedures and systems that I believe do not exist in the real Islamic foundation.

[Fatwa Banker]

true Islamic values like helping the poor

This is a popular saying that I have yet to see evidence of. Fact is that poor Muslims are helped more by Christians in the West than by fellow Muslims.

[anajmi]

And we see evidence of that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other places. Christian drones dropping bombs which explode into money from the sky!! And christians helping the muslims in Saudi by buying their oil and then helping muslims in Iran through sanctions. And how could you forget to mention Jews helping Muslims in Palestine?

[One Pragmatist]

The obvious is what we see, but the underlying truth is that the kothar is afraid the new generation is slipping away from their tight folds. It was okay when people were miles away, with no communication for days. Media was a luxury then. The violent exposure of the world encompasses violent (blast) results. Children are growing too quick too fast. Their minds are becoming more curious and they ask questions. That is dangerous for sustaining and maintaining any hoax communal decree. So, the induction of a child manipulation scheme.

To anajmi: "Christian drones dropping bombs"
While growing up in Pakistan, there was a "Pink house" in Karachi (the only one of its kind I know of) my dad will take us every year to donate food and money. The house inhabitants were children who were "discarded" by their parents either at their birth or later, but the majority were kids. It was a school donated by the church, run by nuns and sisters only in the heart of a Muslim land to take care of Muslim kids. This was not an orphanage. The parents would still visit sometime or they would never, depending on the severity of an individual case. I am not going to go into details or draw a grim picture of what I would encounter at every visit. But I just wanted to throw some light on your comment.

Might is right, is the slogan of the day and west has for centuries subdued the East but like they say everything is fair in love and war. East has not been so innocent either. In either case the bottom line is to learn from your mistakes but it seems like the West came out of the dark ages and moved on. East, well, they still live in the stone ages. And when I say East I am referring to no one but the Muslims themselves. It doesn't matter you are standing in Egypt or Turkey or Pakistan or UAE or meet muslims from Africa or Americas. Those who have migrated or still live in their own lands, they have not learned the lessons of brotherhood or sisterhood (not want to discriminate), cannot come to table on one cause, are always fighting among themselves, enslave their women with Islamic Sharia laws, their ideals are all skewed, they cheat, have no business ethics, their law enforcement is hopeless, the list can go on... and hopefully you got my point...

[anajmi]

Let us see what the Quran says

49:10

إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِخْوَةٌ فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَ أَخَوَيْكُمْ ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

This is from Allah. All mumin are brothers. Whether you like it or not, Allah has made us brothers. So if there is no brotherhood in muslims, Islam has nothing to do with it. Our own selfishness is at fault.

[JC]

Why only Mumins or Muslims are brothers??

Why are Muslims, Christians, Jews and ALL brothers??

Why God only cares for Muslims?? Should he be caring for ALL his Creation?? He is all powerful, what he wishes is our command, so are muslims some are not, so what??

Why not Equality? Why not universal Brotherhood, Why not follow a Wise Man (may be like Mohammad or Essa) or try to find one, or try to become one??

Why not draw the line ourselves saying this is what is allowed and this is what not good for human race.

Why Religious and Geographical and Political Boundaries??

[Al Zulfiqar]

isnt childhood the best time to inculcate good habits, so why shouldnt kids be taught to pay wajebaat early in life.

so according to abd al mutlaq aqs, it is indeed a very good habit, a veritable heavenly virtue, to make children pay wajebaat. and it will definitely guarantee him jannah if an abde teaches his children to pay up whenever anyone demands money of them. if a class teacher demands money, or the friendly neighbourhood bully or the ubiquitous corner drug dealer puts in a request for funds, children in whom this great philantrophic habit of giving away their parents money is inculcated, will promptly do so or write out a promissory note to pay at a later date.

this was the same logic followed by that great provider of social welfare services for children, the inimitable fagin in 'oliver twist' by charles dickens. he trained, he slaved, he worked hard in inculcating the great habit among the children to give money to him. in return he provided a roof over their heads and food, no matter how measly, which is atleast better than what the syedna gives in return: nothing, nada, zilch, zero.

i suggest that aqs utilise his roaring manhood to procreate and multiply, beget a sizeable brood and then sit back and let them provide him a monthly vajebaat. what a superb habit he will be instilling in them, they will earn their rehbar's khushi and the doors of jannah will open for them at such a young age.

[anajmi]

Why only Mumins or Muslims are brothers??

Why are Muslims, Christians, Jews and ALL brothers??

Why God only cares for Muslims?? Should he be caring for ALL his Creation?? He is all powerful, what he wishes is our command, so are muslims some are not, so what??

Why not Equality? Why not universal Brotherhood, Why not follow a Wise Man (may be like Mohammad or Essa) or try to find one, or try to become one??

Why not draw the line ourselves saying this is what is allowed and this is what not good for human race.

Why Religious and Geographical and Political Boundaries??

All valid questions. Some other valid questions which come in my mind from time to time but no one has been able to answer.

Why are only criminals sent to jail? Why this bias against criminals?

Why is a thief a bad person when a person who helps others is considered to be a good person? Why this kind of justice? Why can't we treat everyone as equal and not worry about who is a thief and who is a rapist? Aren't we all the same? All valid questions.

[JC]

No, criminals are to be punished, thief will go to jail .......... we have to have RULES and LAWS for the Betterment of our People ......... crime does not make sense, you cannot do anything to hurt anyone else, you cannot steal, you cannot rape, your freedom stops where my nose starts ........... this is all common sense.
I already said we need to have rules and laws without religion. Which religion allows rape?? None, which human law allows it, none. Which human being would say, yeah it is right?? none. Bro Anajmi, you have to differentiate. LAW is equal for all. Punish the rapist, in the name of Law or Righteousness, not in the name of Religion.
Yes, there should be equality but if Anajmi works 10 hours and JC works 5 hours, Anajmi gets double .... this is equality, this is justice, this should prevail, no religion will say No to this, so why to bring religion in between, then it all becomes Islamic or Christian, which is creating problems. Islams says man can have 4 wives, Christianity allows 1 .... leave that aside, make a Law for ALL, if a man can afford 4, have them AND if all wives are aware of the fact, you may OR may be make a Rule, each adult can have 2 spouses (bearing in mind the other issues attached and related to the basic law).

[anajmi]

Why should a thief go to jail? The government steals from me every month. Why don't they go to jail? Who made the rules and laws? Who gave them the authority? I didn't. Did you? Did someone come and ask you before creating these laws? Why is it common sense? Iraqis and Palestinians are being murdered daily, why is no one going to jail for their murder? Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for decades. Have you seen anyone go to jail for that theft? Where is your common sense? Iraq has been destroyed by American bombs. Have you seen anyone go to jail for those crimes? My tax dollars were used to create those bombs. Did they have my permission to do that?

Islam didn't come to give you your personal rights. It came for the rights of everyone. It doesn't care if you are a homosexual and you feel your rights violated. What is for the betterment of society as a whole? As per the Quran God has made Islam the religion of choice and muslims as brothers. If you do not agree with that, then you shouldn't insist on being called a muslim. Simple. God has created rules not to satisfy your personal urges. Islam isn't going to change because you think it isn't right. And it shouldn't. As long as there are good muslims around, Islam will be there as revealed to the prophet (saw). People who want to change it will come and go. Homosexuality will remain a sin in Islam whether you like it or not.

[JC]

Bro Anajmi,

Sorry you are missing the point ……. Crime is a crime, irrespective of who commits it, a person or a nation …….. what if we take out Judaism and Islam from Israel/Palestine conflict? In Iraq you can say there are US oil interests, may be yes, but this is second point when you do not have geographical and political divide, when there is equitable distribution of wealth, how this can be done, I cannot say for now ……… you construct mosques and churches, call them Community Centres which serve ALL irrespective of caste, creed, colour or religion…..

You see the fundamental problem with religion is that every religion requires complete submission and there is no point of debate or argument or say ‘change’. The flip side of Islam is Shiais, Sunnism, Wahabism which in turn has brought Barelevi, Deobandi, Ismaili, Bohras etc etc and each sect requires complete submission to what it believes to be truth and correct path. Hindu has caste system and Brahmins are supposed to ‘rule’. So there are Catholics, Protestants and Cpotics ……. Jews have their division, even Parsis have Shahanshahi and Qadmi …….. see Bohras now they have Masters and Slaves ……… AND all this in the name of Religion ….

May be hundreds of years it was correct to introduce religion to bring system and semblance to human life and for betterment of society, but today it has served its purpose and we need to move on as those concepts and ideas have not only expired but those have started hurting. If you continue taking a medicine after you are cured, it will have side effects, correct??

I know religion is not only driving on which side of road, but I am giving ideas as you asked for it. I may be WRONG, but the beauty is that I should be able to give ideas. Do not SHUT the door saying Islam or Christianity or Judaism does not allow this or that.

Today people are intolerant of each other basically because of religion, and of course then there are other things, but we have to tackle one by one based on priorities.

[JC]

If Islam came to give Rights to Everyone than why only talk of Muslims?? The fact is Islam will give you your 'rights' a) when IT feels it right to give and b) when you totally submit to it.

You say Quran and Sunnah is till Qayamat, but the fact of the matter is that 'people' have started using it for their own interests and purposes ....... you have to be either Sunni or Shia or whatever, or may be live in isolation.

[JC]

WHO gave me my urges?? So gives me urges and says do not do it?? Why he did not give same urges to ALL others?? If HE is the supreme power to make rules and 'punish' me if I do not follow, why in the first place he did all that?? He is QADIR, if he would have wanted he could have created a PERFECT world, why this tamasha??

Islam has been changed whether you believe it or not, Millions believe that in form of Wahabis, Sunnis, Shia, Bohras and ete etc etc ........

[anajmi]

AND all this in the name of Religion

And according to you, religion was created by man. So all the problems are also created by man.

He is QADIR, if he would have wanted he could have created a PERFECT world, why this tamasha??

There is a perfect world out there, but we have to earn it. To earn it, you have to follow rules laid down by the one who owns that perfect world.

If Islam came to give Rights to Everyone than why only talk of Muslims??

Everyone is free to become a muslim.

but the fact of the matter is that 'people' have started using it for their own interests and purposes

Correct and you are one of them aren't you? You are willing to change the interpretation of the Quran to support your own personal urges right?

Let me give you a simple example from the hadith of the prophet (saw).

Once the prophet came to the masjid when it was not the time to pray and he saw Abu Umamah sitting in the mosque. and said to him: “What is the matter that I am seeing you sitting in the mosque when there is no time of prayer?” Abu Umamah said: “I am entangled in sorrow and debts.” The Prophet Muhammad replied: “Shall I not teach you words by which, when you say them, Allah will remove your sorrow, and settle your debts?” Abu Umamah said: “Yes, Messenger of Allah.” The Prophet Muhammad said: “Say in the morning and evening:
اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّيْ أَعُوْذُ بِكَ مِنَ الْهَمِّ وَالحُزْنِ ، وَالْعَجْزِ وَالْكَسَلِ ، وَالْبُخْلِ وَالْجُبْنِ، وَضَلَعِ الدَّيْنِ وَغَلَبَةِالرِّجالِ
‘O Allah, I take refuge in You from anxiety and sorrow, weakness and laziness, miserliness and cowardice, the burden of debts and from being over powered by men.’ Abu Umamah said: “When I did that Allah removed my distress and settled my debt.”

I say this dua every day in the morning and in the evening. It gives me hope that Allah will remove by debt and my burdens. This is what religion brings to the table. More than which side of the road you can drive on, it brings hope of a better tomorrow. If you want to get rid of religion, bring something which does the same and I will quit religion.