To take a point from History, Emperor Akbar married a Hindu woman....
mustafanalwalla wrote:i just feel quite bored that you guys are just so closed to anything that our Dai does, that you just see bad, never the good...
mustafanalwalla wrote:profastian wrote:Adam wrote:1. Not knowing TRUE Ismaili / Fatimis belief.
2. Distortion of facts.
3. Making a mountain of a mole
The above is a definition of a "Proggy".
First of all, the person bending down at the feet of Mohdi may be disagreed by many, but like said before, ones action cannot be generalized.
In MY opinion, if he was doing it out of ibadat (i'm inclined to believe he wasn't), then he would be wrong.
If he did it out of respect to Mohdi, or greeting him with his cultural norms, it maybe justified. But then again, who are we to judge? For example, if I meet a Japanese client, if it is a norm to greet him by folding my hands and bowing down to him (in accordance to Japanese culture), I don't see any harm in doing that.
I can just imagine some Bohra meeting some random Japanese person, and the Proggies start posting pictures of him claiming he was doing ruku!
Coming back to Modi :
I don't understand constant your problem with the meetings of Dignitaries.
Meetings with officials and prominent personalities is for the long term betterment of the community, for which Syedna TUS strives for. These people play a key in the country and it is advisable/required to keep good relations with them, failing to which may cause harm or no progress.
Rasulullah states :
اذاتاكم كريم قوم فاكرموه (when a distinguished person from your community visits you, give him respect) - This person need not be of the same belief! Such is the beauty of the teachings of Rasulullah SAW.
This is the same philosophy. (any fool would agree)
It does not necessarily mean that Syedna TUS or they must share the same religious beliefs.
Your cry about the "contributions" Syedna TUS makes to these people. No one denies this fact. This is how PR and networking works. If there were any other ways to gain their support, it would be done, (and is being).
If you think giving contributions to them is unlawful, then please revise your Fatimi/Ismaili history :
There is a concept in Islam called التأليف, practiced by Rasulullah SAW himself for the betterment of an Islamic Society. When gpeople were answering the call of Islam in the early days, most genuinely believed in the religion. However, there were some respected (in their qabilas) leaders, whom may have not truly believed in the cause in the beginning, but just joined the flow (or out of fear).
Rasulullah SAW gave material gifts to these people, so that they would be content and have no reason to cause any harm in the society.
They were referred as Moallefat ul Quloob مؤلفة القبوب , and continued to be a part of the Islamic society "physically".
Over the years, they would have experienced the truth in the religion and the great characteristics of Rasulullah SAW, and many truly began to believe in the religion, some remained as they were.
(Note to Proggies : No where am I saying Modi is a Moallefat ul Quloob. Don't distort facts. I am just stating one way the leader of this religion practiced such a norm, for the betterment of his community.)
Another example :
Imam Mehdi AS during his satr was known for the vast amount of hadiya he used to give to the important and powerful rulers of the areas he used to visit, to keep himself and his dawat away for any danger, thus he was called mohdi ie the "giver of hadiyas (gifts).
This is Fatimi way of life.
And Syedna TUS is doing the exact same thing.
Is there a Like button here somewhere
In a nutshell, Adam is referring to an age-old adage, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Nowhere is he glorifying Modi's contribution to the state nor is he, or any of us for that matter, downplaying his role in the butchery.
To take a point from History, Emperor Akbar married a Hindu woman mainly to strengthen ties between 2 citites
Or how about when a Rajput princess tied a rakhee to a Muslim emperor so that she could be assured he would never attack her...
These, my friends, are called strategies for survival, and that is exactly what our Dai is doing, planning strategies for the survival of our community.
The sad part is that even though the progs will eventually enjoy the protection of being a Dawoodi Bohra, because of the alliances our Syedna has created, you refuse to acknowledge it and label Him a traitor...
Again, understand this, i am not saying that Modi is a messiah and he should be put on a pedestal... no, he is evil incarnate, and he needs to be jailed, but while he is in power, one needs to forge alliances with him, if for nothing else, then for the safety of the community.
As for the Sunni muslims who had unfortunately borne the brunt, my heart goes out to them but if somehow, they manage to forge the right alliances, with the right people, then maybe this can be avoided in the future.
A pact with the devil you say??? Maybe... Yeah, if it means saving hundreds, why not
omabharti wrote:no, he is evil incarnate, and he needs to be jailed, but while he is in power, one needs to forge alliances with him, if for nothing else, then for the safety of the community.
I wonder if Imam Hussain should have done that and if he had then we would not have Dawat or Dai, would we? Imam Hussain scarified his entire family and you are asking his Dai to forge alliances for the safety of community? Brother please do not justify otherwise your entire belief in Shia faith is down the drain and all your Maatam and Bukah is for nothing.
Thank you for your explanation but we commemorate Mhurram for Imam Hussain's Shadat and our Aamils talk at length about him standing up to tyrant BUT NEVER TALK ABOUT IMAM HASSAN MAKING PEACE, Now if you justify peace made by Imam Hassan to Muawyah then why it is difficult for you to accept that Maula Ali may have made peace for first 3 khalfias for the betterment of his Umma. Maula Ali did not declare war on the first 3 khalifas and neither did his older son Imam Hasan. The day Kotharis will justify and start telling people about Imam Hasan's strategy in making peace as well Maula Ali' reason to accept the khilfafat of first 3 then I will accept their reason in bowing down to Narendra Modi
Al Zulfiqar wrote:so abdes - prof, stranger, aqs, a'la maqam, et al...
we now have 3 examples. ali and hassan who compromised with the devils and hussain who refused and sacrificed himself and his family for haq. whereas syedna has made hussain and his shahadat as the central plank of his propaganda and marketing strategy, in reality he follows the passive principles of ali and hussain.
so can you please explain this contradiction? why does he lecture and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny over all else and then himself do the opposite?
anajmi wrote:The only difference being, Modi has the power and the Dai has his idiots.
Humsafar wrote:mustafanalwalla wrote:i just feel quite bored that you guys are just so closed to anything that our Dai does, that you just see bad, never the good...
What a pathetic cop-out this: " you guys are just so closed to anything that our Dai does". Don't hide behind generic, blanket statements. If you're honest and rational, you must discuss every issue on its merits.
Al Zulfiqar wrote:a'la' maqam, nalwala and other fanatics,
all you guys have cleverly skirted my real query and trying to deflect and justify the actions of ali, hassan and hussain.
here is the actual question again:
so can you please explain this contradiction? why does the syedna lecture on and promote bravery, defiance, sacrifice and fight against tyranny of hussain over all else and then himself do the opposite?