And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too

[Adam]

@anajmi
How old are you? Don't seem to have reached puberty, according to you senseless comments on almost every singe thread.

@Al Zulfiqar - Sorry for the delay. I don't check these threads too often.

First of all, truly, I don't know how to answer your question.
Do your respect any Shia belief at all? If yes, then your words are extremely offensive to them.
If No, then I you weren't my audience when I replied to that comment. So don't worry about it.
There's no point referring Shia beliefs to a person who doesn't have any respect for it or its Imams. Your comment " shouldnt the maatam be divided between the 2 brothers 50-50%?" shows this disrespect.

Just to clear a few things, according to OUR beliefs.
All 3 Imams were correct in their own ways, for their time and for the future. The "real" reason/hikmat behind their policies/ways are best known to them. Out mere reasoning is just one or two drops in its ocean. Reason is : Protection of the Dawat.

why does the syedna keep harping only only on the shahadat of hussain to the exclusion of the other 2?

Choose your words wisely and with respect.
The Dawoodi Bohra faith mourns the Shahadat of all the 5 Panjatan, and we do matam for all five, not just Imam Husain AS Yes, it does focus on Imam Husain AS zikr, because his shahadat is considered (according to the DB faith) the greatest. And the shahadat holds a very special meaning in DB faith, that superceeds much more than we can fathom.

In my knowledge, we don't perform matam in connection to not bowing down to yazeed, rather it is for the shahadat of an Imam. So the concept you mentioned about crying about the peace treaty with mu'awiyah, let alone do matam for THAT reason, is not even considered.

then goes and licks modi's backside and bribes him with huge sums

No one is licking any ones.
You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way. (But that's beside the point).
If material gifts are shared, there's no harm in it. It's how PR is done. Read my first comment in this thread.

The Mumin bhais who visited Modi, need not have gone with direct orders of Syedna TUS, but rather would have got a consent from their local Amil. Meeting him is not an issue. Plus, it's a move towards the betterment of the community. A community, it's obvious that you aren't a part of.

Again, the comments about the 3 Imams were only meant for people who understand Shia belief. All your comments seem that you have no idea at all, rather, in your mind, it seems like a game.

Just Google the Hikmah of Suleh of Imam Hasan AS you'll find some reasons.
http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c ... 8%B3%D9%86

[anajmi]

Adam,

Let me repeat my question which you chose not to answer. Has the Dai signed any treaty with Modi?

[SBM]

Adam
it's a move towards the betterment of the community.

So Adam
Should Qutbuddin Shaheed should have made deal with Aurangzeb for betterment of community instead of giving his life and defending the Dawat.
Lest we forget about Imam Hussain's principles to sacrifice his entire family for the betterment of ISLAM, "Islam zinda hoota hey her karbala ke baad"
What comes first, your principles to defend the honor or bowing down to a known killer of Muslims including Bohras
(Please do not hide behind Hikma and Batin Bayans again)

[ghulam muhammed]

we do matam for all five, not just Imam Husain AS

I have never heard the chants of 'Ya Hasan' in bohra masjids, prove me wrong by citing a few examples contrary to my claim.

You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way.

Did Modi VISIT the dai voluntarily or was he INVITED ? Please dont fall into the usual kothari crap that Modi, like other dignitories elsewhere came on their own accord. The 'Inviting' part is done by the PRO machinery in saifee mahal.

The Mumin bhais who visited Modi, need not have gone with direct orders of Syedna TUS, but rather would have got a consent from their local Amil.

And where does the amil get his consent from ? Do you believe that the amil can act on his own free will especially in such sensitive matters ?

[ghulam muhammed]

Reason is : Protection of the Dawat.

O.K. So protection of 'Dawat' is more important then protection of 'Ummah', I think Prophet (s.a.w.) and Panjatan Pak (a.s.) also followed this same concept, didnt they ????

[guy_sam2005]

we do matam for all five, not just Imam Husain AS

I have never heard the chants of 'Ya Hasan' in bohra masjids, prove me wrong by citing a few examples contrary to my claim.
visit bohra mosque on 9th of moharram to prove urself wrong..............

You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way.

Did Modi VISIT the dai voluntarily or was he INVITED ? Please dont fall into the usual kothari crap that Modi, like other dignitories elsewhere came on their own accord. The 'Inviting' part is done by the PRO machinery in saifee mahal.
He visited .it was him who had requested a meeting with syedna(tus)...and also persisted when denied once..... and there was also a mumin whose precense was requested.

The Mumin bhais who visited Modi, need not have gone with direct orders of Syedna TUS, but rather would have got a consent from their local Amil.

And where does the amil get his consent from ? Do you believe that the amil can act on his own free will especially in such sensitive matters ?

all business people(mumins) go to chief ministers of their states at all events,n sometimes they visit mumin's functions too,n for that v dont need aamil saabs raza till its not in jumaat

[Adam]

Thank you guy_sam2005

"visit bohra mosque on 9th of moharram to prove urself wrong.............."
Dawoodi Bohras worldwide also mourn the shahadat of Imam Hasan AS on the 28th of Safar, 9th Moharram, and other waazs also, along with the shahadat of Imam Husain AS.

@anajmi - You're still immature. To my knowledge, no pact, just PR.
But why do you care? Since Neither Syedna TUS or Modi seem to be your leader, it doesn't concern you.

@ghulam muhammed - If they went with the consent of the Amil, they are still correct for reasons of PR.
If they went on their own free will, for personal PR, why not?

Of course Modi was invited, so what's the problem? It's PR. For the sake of the community, and the "Ummah" (as stated by you), hopefully, by creating healthy ties with such a person, Inshallah may help Muslims in the future, time will tell. In MY opinion, if that doesn't work, and in fact Modi (or whoever for that matter) continues to cause harm, the PR policy will change.
I don't understand what you people keep crying about in PR! (Read the my first post on this thread!)

@omabharti -

Lest we forget about Imam Hussain's principles to sacrifice his entire family for the betterment of ISLAM, "Islam zinda hoota hey her karbala ke baad"

Correct.

Syedna Qutbuddin RA did not bow because they were accusing him of being a "Rafzi" amoungst other reasons.

What comes first, your principles to defend the honor or bowing down to a known killer of Muslims including Bohras

So what is your comment on Imam Hasans AS peace treaty with Mu'awiyah, who himself killed many Muslims and battled his Father & Imam Moulana Ali? What's your say on that? You agree with Imam Hasan AS or not?

(Please do not hide behind Hikma and Batin Bayans again)

I wasn't hiding, I even provided a Google search link for you to do your own homework.

Most importantly before anything, please answer this, as i'm curiously confused, it will help me answer you next time :
Do you consider Imam Ali, Hasan & Husain AS Imams? Yes or No
Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No
You definitely don't consider Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS as your religious leader, or yourself a part of the Dawoodi Bohra Community, so why are you giving examples of a Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA?


For ALL of you :
Stop letting your hatred for Syedna cloud all your thoughts, this goes for the same for you the Proggies & Wahabis out there.

Go find a leader who does what YOU want him to do.
We are happy with OURS, you find your own and be faithful to him/her!

[SBM]

Adam
What comes first, your principles to defend the honor or bowing down to a known killer of Muslims including Bohras
So what is your comment on Imam Hasans AS peace treaty with Mu'awiyah, who himself killed many Muslims and battled his Father & Imam Moulana Ali? What's your say on that? You agree with Imam Hasan AS or not?

Adam
That was a rhetorical question, that is what many on these forum had been asking you and others who had been defending Syedna's pact with Modi and now you try to turn and ask us the same thing since you and others could not provide a satisfactory answer.
SO WAS QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED WRONG IN BEING MARTYRED OR SHOULD HE BOWED TO AURANGZEB AND LET ME ASK YOU WHAT WOULD MODI DO IF BOHRAS AND SYENDA DO NOT BUTTER HIS BEHIND, THE WORST HE CAN DO IS MARTYR THE LEADERS AND IS NOT THAT IS WHAT WE REMEMBER KARBALA AND QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED FOR?

[SBM]

as i'm curiously confused,

well do not blame anyone else if you get out of that BOX you would not be that confused

[SBM]

Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No

Is being a Muslim and follower of Mohammed and his progeny is not good enough for you? I keep my options open and do not get locked into one or other. There is a bigger world out there if you open your eyes.

[SBM]

Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No

Is being a Muslim and follower of Mohammed and his progeny is not good enough for you? I keep my options open and do not get locked into one or other. There is a bigger world out there if you open your eyes.

Go figure out who am I in your multi colored scheme?

[anajmi]

@anajmi - You're still immature. To my knowledge, no pact, just PR.

So your Dai is bowing down to a known criminal, giving him gifts and making bohras humiliate themselves in front of him without a pact? Is that what the Imams did? Why isn't your Dai following in the footsteps of the Imams? He didn't sign a pack like Imam Hassan did and he doesn't fight like Imam Hussain did. Still sure you are banking upon the right guy? Do you know what PR is? Or is your knowledge only limited to using different coloured fonts?

[Adam]

I think I'll just ignore anajmi s comments, because from my experience, I've confirmed he's an immature idiot.

omabharti
My questions were pretty straight forward.
If you were of Shia belief, you wouldn't have had any issue with either policies of any of the 3 Imams.
If you're not of this Shia belief, then this wasn't for you, as you're neither Shia, nor claim to be Dawoodi Bohra. You're on the wrong forum :
I'll repeat :

Most importantly before anything, please answer this, as i'm curiously confused (because you're not clearing your stand point), it will help me answer you next time :
Do you consider Imam Ali, Hasan & Husain AS Imams? Yes or No
Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No
You definitely don't consider Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS as your religious leader, or yourself a part of the Dawoodi Bohra Community, so why are you giving examples of a Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA?


For ALL of you :
Stop letting your hatred for Syedna cloud all your thoughts, this goes for the same for you the Proggies & Wahabis out there.

Go find a leader who does what YOU want him to do.
We are happy with OURS, you find your own and be faithful to him/her!

P.S : I like the Green fonts, I feel it gives me a defined identity. Why? Are you going to cry about using a font also? Cry to Admin for even making colours available.

[SBM]

Cry to Admin for even making colours available.

What a childish reply from you, Do you blame GOD for all kind of SINS in this world too. If married do you tell your wife not to cook since some one created Restaurants too

[Adam]

Sorry, but didn't get any reply to the questions, so i'll repeat :

Do you consider Imam Ali, Hasan & Husain AS Imams? Yes or No
Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No
You definitely don't consider Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS as your religious leader, or yourself a part of the Dawoodi Bohra Community, so why are you giving examples of a Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA?


For ALL of you :
Stop letting your hatred for Syedna cloud all your thoughts, this goes for the same for you the Proggies & Wahabis out there.

Go find a leader who does what YOU want him to do.
We are happy with OURS, you find your own and be faithful to him/her!

[SBM]

Are you of Shia belief? Yes or No

Is being a Muslim and follower of Mohammed and his progeny is not good enough for you? I keep my options open and do not get locked into one or other. There is a bigger world out there if you open your eyes.
Go figure

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro.Adam,

Initially you said :-

You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way.

After sometime you changed your statement:-

Of course Modi was invited, so what's the problem?

See what happens to a confused person who is fed lies 24x7. Ek jhooth chhupane ke liye 100 jhooth bolne padte hai.

[anajmi]

I think I'll just ignore anajmi s comments, because from my experience, I've confirmed he's an immature idiot.

Adam,

If an immature idiot can make you wet your pants, imagine what a mature idiot will do to you. Now let me repeat what I have said before to make it crystal clear for everyone. The Dai isn't behaving like any of the great Imams. He is a coward who is bribing the criminals to save his and his followers' worthless behinds. That is what an average human being normally does in the face of danger from criminals. He compromises with the situation. That is what the Dai is doing. There is no divine hikmat in this. Only his blind abde idiots see this as an act of God. It just the act of an average human who is afraid for his life and his property (his abdes).

[Adam]

Bro.Adam,

Initially you said :-

You may remember it is Modi who came to visit Syedna TUS in Ahmedabad, not the other way.

After sometime you changed your statement:-

Of course Modi was invited, so what's the problem?

See what happens to a confused person who is fed lies 24x7. Ek jhooth chhupane ke liye 100 jhooth bolne padte hai.

What I said initially was in reply to the "ass licking" comment you made, I was saying that that was no act of that sort, rather the (supposed) leader of Gujarat CAME to visit Syedna TUS. Whether he was invited or came out his own free will, he still CAME. (No as licking).
That's all I was trying to say, don't pick on words.

@anajmi
You're hatred for everything and everyone connected to the DB faith (all the way till the Imams) blinds you from seeing anything that YOU can't accept.

You still continue to be a stubborn immature individual by not answering the simple questions I put up.
I'll rephrase by what I wrote on the other thread, where you read, but still refuse to comment.

Since you have NO connection, NO respect whatsoever for DB & Fatimi faith :
It really shouldn't concern you as he is not YOUR leader, neither are the Fatimi Imams AS!
Syedna TUS is ours, and we are happy.

You live in free society, in a huge globalized world. Syedna s actions don't affect you at all, so you have nothing to worry about.
You appoint your own leader, and worry about whether he acts or doesn't act. If you don't like him, no one is stopping you go find another one!
Fair enough?

[anajmi]

It really shouldn't concern you as he is not YOUR leader, neither are the Fatimi Imams AS!
Syedna TUS is ours, and we are happy.

Again, a completely idiotic point. Yazid was not Imam Hussain's leader. Then why was he concerned about removing him from office? Why did he go to war with him? Why didn't he just leave and walk away with his family?

[Adam]

It really shouldn't concern you as he is not YOUR leader, neither are the Fatimi Imams AS!
Syedna TUS is ours, and we are happy.

Again, a completely idiotic point. Yazid was not Imam Hussain's leader. Then why was he concerned about removing him from office? Why did he go to war with him? Why didn't he just leave and walk away with his family?

(You didn't answer my questions though)
Are you of Shia belief? You believe in Imam Husain AS?

I have no idea how to answer your stupidity, but let me try again!
I maybe kind of see where your trying to get with this, but it's a stupid long shot your going for.

First all, get your facts straight (If you are of Shia belief. If not, your ignorance may be excused)

Imam Husain AS didn't "go to war" with Yazeed.
Mu'awiyah broke the treaty by appointing Yazeed after him, when he was supposed to pass it to the Children of Moulatena Fatema AS.
He was on is way to Kufa because the people in Kufa wrote and swore allegiance to Imam Husein AS.
On his way there, the Kufans turned against him.
He couldn't "just leave and walk away with his family" because the enemy swore to kill him.

So please brush up your history, before embarrassing yourself.

Secondly, even if Imam Husain AS took the first initiative to battle Yazeed, it was because Imam Husain knew he was the rightful Imam.

Please express in detail what you mean to say in your metaphorical story.

I'll answer it to the best of my ability.
In the mean time, if you can answer (and not run away) from mine (the 3rd/4th time)

Whether he did it or not, made it public or not, you really have no say in anything.
It really shouldn't concern you as SYEDNA is not YOUR leader.

Look at it this way (i'm supposing you're from India), the Dawoodi Bohra s that believe in Syedna are a tiny (in terms of numbers) community varying till about a million. Whereas there are over a Billion people in India.
You live in free society, in a huge globalized world.
Syedna's actions don't affect politics of a country in general, or day to day events.
Syedna s actions don't affect you at all, so you have nothing to worry about.

WHY IN GOD's NAME DO YOU CARE!?

You appoint your own leader, and worry about whether he acts or doesn't act. If you don't like him, no one is stopping you go find another one!
Fair enough?

[ghulam muhammed]

He was on is way to Kufa because the people in Kufa wrote and swore allegiance to Imam Husein AS.

On his way there, the Kufans turned against him.

A little and/or major change :- He was on his way to Kufa because the SHIAS in Kufa wrote and swore allegiance to Imam Hussain AS. On his way there, the Kufan SHIAS turned against him.

HENCE ------------

please brush up your history, before embarrassing yourself.

[anajmi]

Syedna's actions don't affect politics of a country in general, or day to day events.
Syedna s actions don't affect you at all, so you have nothing to worry about.

You are absolutely right about that. In the big picture, Syedna is inconsequential. He doesn't have the power to affect politics, which is what the goal of an Islamic leader should be. Imam Hussain changed politics by sacrificing his life. The Syedna is powerless to bring about such a change. Infact, he just pays off criminals to spare him and his abdes.

Are you of Shia belief? You believe in Imam Husain AS?

No, I am not of shia belief and I do believe in Imam Hussain. I believe he was born to Hazrat Fatima and Hazrat Ali and gave his life for the sake of Islam. There are many others that gave their lives for the sake of Islam before Imam Hussain and after him.

He couldn't "just leave and walk away with his family" because the enemy swore to kill him.

So according to your version of history, if Yazeed hadn't sworn to kill him, Imam Hussain would've walked away with his family right?

[stranger]

Adam,
Bro, You are doing good Job.

Anajmi,
I told you many times that You people should not give lesson to others, Its like ''khud ki Dhulti nahi aur dusro ki dhone Nikle hain''

[anajmi]

stranger,

Abdes are like "kutte ki dum, barah saal nalli mein rakho, nalli tedi ho jayegi par kutte ki dum seedhi nahin hogi"

[stranger]

Anajmi,

Musattas are like Kutta only, Jiss ka khaayenge ussi ko kaat lenge.

[guy_sam2005]

Adam
What comes first, your principles to defend the honor or bowing down to a known killer of Muslims including Bohras
So what is your comment on Imam Hasans AS peace treaty with Mu'awiyah, who himself killed many Muslims and battled his Father & Imam Moulana Ali? What's your say on that? You agree with Imam Hasan AS or not?

Adam
That was a rhetorical question, that is what many on these forum had been asking you and others who had been defending Syedna's pact with Modi and now you try to turn and ask us the same thing since you and others could not provide a satisfactory answer.
SO WAS QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED WRONG IN BEING MARTYRED OR SHOULD HE BOWED TO AURANGZEB AND LET ME ASK YOU WHAT WOULD MODI DO IF BOHRAS AND SYENDA DO NOT BUTTER HIS BEHIND, THE WORST HE CAN DO IS MARTYR THE LEADERS AND IS NOT THAT IS WHAT WE REMEMBER KARBALA AND QUTBUDDIN SHAHEED FOR?

let modi do something like aurangzeb then we will dicuss syedna(tus)'s course of action,i dont deny modi's role in killings,there is no politicion or hardly any who doesnt have blood in his hands.not only in India but also in most developed countries too.
why dont all muslims leave USA and europe as they are aiding israel............bro oma be practical even u know by heart wats right and wats wrong and how situations are to be handled for long term benefits.

[mustafanalwalla]

I think I'll just ignore anajmi s comments, because from my experience, I've confirmed he's an immature idiot.

Adam,

If an immature idiot can make you wet your pants, imagine what a mature idiot will do to you. Now let me repeat what I have said before to make it crystal clear for everyone. The Dai isn't behaving like any of the great Imams. He is a coward who is bribing the criminals to save his and his followers' worthless behinds. That is what an average human being normally does in the face of danger from criminals. He compromises with the situation. That is what the Dai is doing. There is no divine hikmat in this. Only his blind abde idiots see this as an act of God. It just the act of an average human who is afraid for his life and his property (his abdes).

Correct Anajmi.

What the Dai is doing, he is doing for us, his followers.

Which is more than what your Shahi Imam, sitting in Jama Masjid has ever done.

Tell me, what has your Shahi Imam, sitting in Jama Masjid, ever done for your communitiy???

Give me a straight answer, don't try and derail the topic, don't try and beat around the bush, don't try and trivialise what our Dai has done, don't try to backtrack the topic, don't try and change the topic.

Just give me a straight and honest answer and that will be appreciated

[Muslim First]

mustafa
What the Dai is doing, he is doing for us, his followers.
Which is more than what your Shahi Imam, sitting in Jama Masjid has ever done.
Tell me, what has your Shahi Imam, sitting in Jama Masjid, ever done for your communitiy???
Give me a straight answer, don't try and derail the topic, don't try and beat around the bush, don't try and trivialise what our Dai has done, don't try to backtrack the topic, don't try and change the topic.
Just give me a straight and honest answer and that will be appreciatedmustafanalwalla

Brother
Majority of Muslim do not have religious leader. Shahi Imam does not speak for them. He is a bafoon who has lock on Jame Masjid's trust.
There are heads of different movements like barlevi and deobandi who speak for those who believe in them.

It is good that Sydena is trying to protect DBs but bribing and doing NAMO is not islamic way. But who says he is pucca Muslim? He is a DB. Born to be a paracite on DBs.

[Adam]

Brother stranger, with all respect, please refrain from making rash comments.
There is no need to, plus, it diverts from the topic, and "other people" wait for something to divert and pounce on it. It makes no sense and no advantage.

@gulam muhammed
SHIAS
The Kufans depicted that they were Shias, but in turn turn against him.
A Shia is one who believes and follows the Imam, not who avenges war with him.
Thus, they were not SHIAs of Imam Husain AS as they claimed to be. They lied.

@anamji

So according to your version of history, if Yazeed hadn't sworn to kill him, Imam Hussain would've walked away with his family right?

History is what happened, and we only know what happened, not what didn't.

@mustafa
It's nice to know that others are aware of anajmi s tactics of dodging questions and making stupid comments!
My questions above yet have to be answered!!
Yazeed / Ubaidullah bin Ziyaads intentions are for them to decide.

But, hypothetically, if Yazeed hadn't try to kill Imam Husain AS in Karbala, maybe he would have tried again.
BUT again, the above is totally wrong, as you "claiming" to be a "Shia" are "Supposed" to believe that the Shahadat of Imam Husain AS was not a coincidence.
This is Shia - Ismaili - Fatimi belief.

I still don't know what you are trying to get at with your metaphorical examples. Please get to it, in detail next time.


If this has nothing to do with this thread "And the Bohris fall at the feet of Narendra Modi too", refrain from it. Stop diverting.

@mustafa
Well said, it's nice to know that others also notice anajmi ways of diverting from the question, to making un related comments.
I'm still waiting for my answers which he keeps dodging!

@Muslim First
Forget about other Muslims/Shias.
Do you have any leader?
What is your problem with PR? Don't you have any contacts whom you get work done by?
Is it wrong to give out "gifts"?
What you may call bribes, can be called something else, when put in its right context.That is not for you and me to decide.

I had written a long post before, which you may not have read, so i'll post it again!