FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

[Adam]

@sixfeetunder

1. You have already been debunked on the 'Order from Prophet' and 'farmaan' by Anajmi and Porus.

Actually not, because it's already stated in Dawoodi Bohra texts according to IMAM ALIs order.
PORUS has yet to get back on my answey.
Anajmi doesn't agree with it, because he doesn't believe in Imam Ali AS. (If that's his stance, then he's entitled to that opinion). However, for someone who CLAIMS to be a follower of Imam Ali AS, must obey is farmaan. Nothing else.

2. I do not think 'Taharat' is a small concept. I firmly believe that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. But FGM is no way related to 'tahaarat'.

Actually it is related to Taharat. If you read any of the Dawoodi Bohra fiqh (law) books OR the Sunni/Shia books that are in favour of this, this chapter of Circumcision comes under the CHAPTER OF TAHARAT, (just after Wuzu etc).
So, the sole benefit is TAHARAT. That should should be good enough for any believer to follow.

Open your eyes. FGM is cruel. Modern science proves it.

This is where your argument goes extremely faulty.
You prove "cruelty" based on what "Modern Science" says, not what the Prophet SAW and Imam ALI AS wanted instead.
I respect science, but science is a study of theories. One man disagrees with another, there isn't any "eternal truth in it". What one scientist says is refuted by another a few years later. "Modern Science" back in the day talked of Geo-Centric system, today it says Helio Centric. "Modern science" proves Pig material is good for you. Would you obey what "Modern Science" says or what the Prophet says?
The teachings of Islam come above anything anyone else says.
That's why, first come to the crux of the matter. Did the Prophet or Imam ALI say it. Yes or No. That's all a true follower needs to know. Because you yourself talk so well of the Prophet,

The Prophet was the biggest scientist/sage/master the world has ever seen. The Prophet was endowed by divine knowledge by the Almighty Allah. He was the same man who saved little girls from being buried alive.

which at least shows you respect him, I don't know your opinion about the others:

History is proof that thousands of ahadith have been played with, misused and fabricated to suit various agendas.

True, that's why we follow our own authentic sources according to us.
By the way, you still haven't summed up the courage to cite your "sources of Islam and the Sunnah". So, what is it?

[Adam]

the coward adam and his cronies in crime, remain silent on this aspect of male circumcision among abde bohras..

I already answered it saying your claims of the 2nd Circumcision was baseless nonsense.
I also asked you to cite your sources for that incorrect information.

[Al Zulfiqar]

the coward adam and his cronies in crime, remain silent on this aspect of male circumcision among abde bohras..

I already answered it saying your claims of the 2nd Circumcision was baseless nonsense.
I also asked you to cite your sources for that incorrect information.

and i have already told you that these secret sources are in the possession of saifee mahal with 2 copies, one is with you and the second one with me.

[Adam]

@Zulfaqar: Immature idiot.

[Al Zulfiqar]

@Zulfaqar: Immature idiot.

adam,

this is not an acceptable reply. what are your religious sources for making such an outlandish claim? please quote your reference books and their authors. also bring forth the evidence from all nabis stretching back to nabi adam and then down to the last imam in support of your statement.

considering your extreme loyalty, devotion and obedience to the cult leader, you must have been circumcised atleast 3 times so syedna can wear jootis made from your khaal. correct?

[anajmi]

considering your extreme loyalty, devotion and obedience to the cult leader, you must have been circumcised atleast 3 times so syedna can wear jootis made from your khaal. correct?

I wonder what size jooti that might be.

[ghulam muhammed]

I wonder what size jooti that might be

Enough to fit a finger............ now dont ask which one

[Human]

I can write an essay on how doing Haj is just a waste of money and resources.
And ofcourse, you know how many essays are written against Jihad.

Please do write an essay as I truly believe that it is a waste of money and resources which are rather better spent on the poor and starving. And Jihad in today's world equates to terrorism. Enough said.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Human,

Read this :-

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6873

[sixfeetunder]

Non-obligatory Hajj and Umrah maybe a waste of money and resources. But obligatory Hajj is definitely not. Islam is a world religion. Hajj is a meeting point for Muslims all around the world. Muslims get to know about their history, their Prophet and the birth-place of their great religion. Although Wahhabi buggers are destroying Islamic heritage for real estate, they can't destroy the love for Muhammad and his family from the hearts of millions of Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Hajj also depicts to the world what Islam really stands for - equality and peace - irrespective of caste, creed and colour. Muslim frogs also get a chance to come out of their wells into the open pond, mingling with other Muslim frogs, beetles, dragonflies, snails and midges. Hajj broadens their horizon!

[sixfeetunder]

@sixfeetunder

1. You have already been debunked on the 'Order from Prophet' and 'farmaan' by Anajmi and Porus.

Actually not, because it's already stated in Dawoodi Bohra texts according to IMAM ALIs order.
PORUS has yet to get back on my answey.
Anajmi doesn't agree with it, because he doesn't believe in Imam Ali AS. (If that's his stance, then he's entitled to that opinion). However, for someone who CLAIMS to be a follower of Imam Ali AS, must obey is farmaan. Nothing else.

2. I do not think 'Taharat' is a small concept. I firmly believe that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. But FGM is no way related to 'tahaarat'.

Actually it is related to Taharat. If you read any of the Dawoodi Bohra fiqh (law) books OR the Sunni/Shia books that are in favour of this, this chapter of Circumcision comes under the CHAPTER OF TAHARAT, (just after Wuzu etc).
So, the sole benefit is TAHARAT. That should should be good enough for any believer to follow.

Open your eyes. FGM is cruel. Modern science proves it.

This is where your argument goes extremely faulty.
You prove "cruelty" based on what "Modern Science" says, not what the Prophet SAW and Imam ALI AS wanted instead.
I respect science, but science is a study of theories. One man disagrees with another, there isn't any "eternal truth in it". What one scientist says is refuted by another a few years later. "Modern Science" back in the day talked of Geo-Centric system, today it says Helio Centric. "Modern science" proves Pig material is good for you. Would you obey what "Modern Science" says or what the Prophet says?
The teachings of Islam come above anything anyone else says.
That's why, first come to the crux of the matter. Did the Prophet or Imam ALI say it. Yes or No. That's all a true follower needs to know. Because you yourself talk so well of the Prophet,

The Prophet was the biggest scientist/sage/master the world has ever seen. The Prophet was endowed by divine knowledge by the Almighty Allah. He was the same man who saved little girls from being buried alive.

which at least shows you respect him, I don't know your opinion about the others:

History is proof that thousands of ahadith have been played with, misused and fabricated to suit various agendas.

True, that's why we follow our own authentic sources according to us.
By the way, you still haven't summed up the courage to cite your "sources of Islam and the Sunnah". So, what is it?

If FGM can lead to infections and complications, how is it helping tahaarat? Would you care to explain?

Also, I pray to the Almighty, in the name of Muhammad and his family, to command the angels of torture to excise the genitalia of all those individuals who purposely, (well-knowing its effects upon the female) put their daughters to the FGM torture. If the parents go to hell, good enough. If they end up in heaven, please order the angels of torture to slash their genitalia before they approach the hooris. Allow the genitalia to grow and slash them again when they become desirous of the wide-eyed and well-endowed hooris. This way they may be able to experience completely and eternally, what it means to be a victim of FGM. Ameen.

[ghulam muhammed]

9 in 10 Kenyan Muslims practice Female Genetal mutilation

A study in North Eastern Kenya and released in Nairobi Monday by Mothers’ Lap Foundation (MLF), a rights group, paints a grim picture in the fight against Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). The results of the report come out even as the practice among Somali Muslims rise beyond 90 per cent.

The study; Delinking Islam from FGM shows that 97 per cent of the Muslims in North Eastern Kenya practice FGM in the name of religious and cultural beliefs and strongly links religious beliefs in the Somali community to the current prevalence rates.

While releasing the figures,Sheikh Ibrahim Lethome said thousands of young Somali girls; barely in their teens, undergo FGM regularly.

“When I see a young Somali girl walking on the road, I pity her because; soon she will be experiencing the worst form of human rights violations- FGM. Nobody can convince me that a girl as young as 6 years old is undergoing the ‘rite of passage’. This rite of passage is from what to what?” asked Lethome.

Worse, said Lethome who led the study – the girls are left under the mercies of brutal village genital ‘cutters’ who use “crude tools of mass destruction” (circumciser’s knife), sewing needle and a thread.

“Nobody is there for these innocent souls. There is not a single person to complain to the authorities on behalf of the young girls. The father pays for FGM services; the mother takes the girl to the circumciser and when you ask the police; one is told; ‘we don’t want to interfere with peoples’ culture. The politician will say; he will lose votes. So who will cry for the girls?” again posed Lethome.

He added that; it is more piteous that the ‘cutter’; chest thumps after performing the circumcision saying; ‘I am the best, I do it like a sewing machine.’

According to the study, FGM is still high among the Kisii community of Nyanza where it is still perceived as a part of culturd. It is second at 96 per cent after North Eastern Kenya, followed by the Maasai at 94 per cent; and Taita Taveta at 62 per cent.

The study revealed that FGM is practiced in most of the 47 counties in the country with Central Kenya recording a steady rise after the vice had been seen to reduce two years ago.

“Due to the sustained Mungiki activities in Central Kenya and other adjacent regions, FGM has been seen to rise again, despite initially going down,” said MLF legal adviser, Sheikh Ibrahim Lethome at the organisation’s offices in Nairobi on Monday.

International Human Rights activist, Ansar Burney, who is visiting Kenya; Somali and Ethiopia, challenged the media to come out and speak for the young girls who literally do not have any hopes for the future as old men were waiting in the fringes to marry them.

“We need to create awareness; positively sensitise against FGM among communities that practice it. And this can only be done best by the media through conveying the right information. I urge you the Kenyan media to fight for the girl child’s rights because FGM is a human rights violation; it is like killing a girl,” said Burney.

http://www.africasciencenews.org/en/ind ... mutilation

[anajmi]

As long as we have people like Adam and other idiots who believe in this as a practice of Imam Ali, then this will continue. Unfortunately, if it is Imam Ali's order to perform FGM, then that really shows that he wasn't infallible either and got it wrong.

[sixfeetunder]

As long as we have people like Adam and other idiots who believe in this as a practice of Imam Ali, then this will continue. Unfortunately, if it is Imam Ali's order to perform FGM, then that really shows that he wasn't infallible either and got it wrong.

Oh, C'mon! Africans, Shafii'tes and others don't do it because of Imam Ali's order! There is a hadith quoting the Prophet about FGM. So, if it is The Prophet's order, then does that mean he wasn't the messenger of God? Please keep this topic on track and don't divert it into Shia-are-idol-worshippers kerfuffle!

[Adam]

Oh, C'mon! Africans, Shafii'tes and others don't do it because of Imam Ali's order! There is a hadith quoting the Prophet about FGM. So, if it is The Prophet's order, then does that mean he wasn't the messenger of God? Please keep this topic on track and don't divert it into Shia-are-idol-worshippers kerfuffle!

AGREED. (Diversion off topic is always the case)
First confirm whether it is the Prophets SAW and Imam Ali AS order. Dawoodi Bohras believe it so, as stated in our sources.
I have also provided citations from other Sunni & Shia books. Especially discussed the word "Khitanaan" which is commonly used in Arabic.
"Science" shouldn't decide your religious practices.

[sixfeetunder]

Oh, C'mon! Africans, Shafii'tes and others don't do it because of Imam Ali's order! There is a hadith quoting the Prophet about FGM. So, if it is The Prophet's order, then does that mean he wasn't the messenger of God? Please keep this topic on track and don't divert it into Shia-are-idol-worshippers kerfuffle!

AGREED. (Diversion off topic is always the case)
First confirm whether it is the Prophets SAW and Imam Ali AS order. Dawoodi Bohras believe it so, as stated in our sources.
I have also provided citations from other Sunni & Shia books. Especially discussed the word "Khitanaan" which is commonly used in Arabic.
"Science" shouldn't decide your religious practices.

No, it is neither the Prophet's 'order' nor Imam Ali's. Most citations are weak and do not come under the category of an 'order' nor are they as pronounced as the Sunnah of Male circumcision.

Below is a testimony of a Bohra female who would experience difficulty in reaching an orgasm due to FGM performed on her. A God-given right was taken away from this woman by foolish parents.

“Dear Molly,

I am an Indian woman living in Mumbai and I attended a seminar in the United States recently where you spoke on the subject of Female Genital Cutting in Africa. That day, I know I was the most intent of all listeners, the most interested in what you had to say. Why, you might ask?

It is because I, an Indian woman who has been to University, have myself experienced the practice of FGC. I know this may surprise you, but it is true. Did you know that FGC also exists in India? Many people do not, not even many Indians!

I hail from the Dawoodi Bohra community, whose head is called the Syedna – we are a sect of the Shias, which came to India from Yemen some centuries ago.

As in many parts of the world, parents in the Bohra community suffered from “son stroke” as did my parents, who prayed hard for a son, after having four girls. They did succeed and we finally had a boy in the family.

I was the third among four sisters. We were very close and shared many secrets. But none of us, not the ones before me, nor I myself, ever shared or warned the ones closest to us about the frightening and incomprehensible experience that we would one day be forced to go through. It was not spoken about then and it is not spoken about even today.
I am 60 years old now, but will remember that fateful day for the rest of my life. I must have been around 7 years old when my mother told me we were going to my grandma’s house to spend the day with her. When we reached my grandma’s house, my cousin (my mum’s sister’s daughter), who was a year younger than me, was also there. We were happy to meet each other.

Then, we were both led to a small room, which had a bed and asked to lie down. We kept asking “Why?” Suddenly, a lady dressed in black came into the room. By now, my cousin and I were terrified, not aware of what was to follow.

Our dresses were pulled up and our panties pulled off, and we were asked to keep our legs apart. There were our mothers and our aunts holding our legs apart and then I felt something cold being applied to my clitoris, and then to my horror, the lady in black, actually held a scissor-like instrument and cut me there – I screamed and screamed but no one seemed to care. Then this same thing was done to my cousin, who was right next to me on the same bed.

Both of us kept screaming and crying in pain. Everyone left the room and asked us to lie down with our legs apart, and told us that all would be well soon. They locked us in for almost the whole day. The burning and painful sensation between my groins is something I will never ever forget.

I felt betrayed by and angry with my mother and humiliated too. I just could not understand how my mother could have been so cruel and put me through this horrific experience. Much later I was told that all Bohra girls must go through it, and that it is ‘good’ for you. I then understood that my mother had no choice, that for her, she was only doing what was expected of her. She was being a “good mother” because this is a practice that had been carried out in our Bohra group for centuries and was considered essential for a woman’s good reputation and marriage chances.

Little did I know that this would affect my sexual life to such a great extent that reaching an orgasm would be a difficult thing for me!

My husband and I have made sure that our daughter does not go through the same thing. We warned his mother and mine that they dare not do anything behind our backs. We know of friends from my generation, who did not want their girls to go through FGC, but often it was the grandma or the aunts who took them away and secretly got it done!

The sad part is that my sisters and I, and my cousins too, did not really discuss our experience till many years later. We have spent years feeling shame and humiliation for a senseless act that we were subjugated to as children, incapable of defending our human right to keep all organs of our body.

I regret also, dear Molly that I cannot reveal my name to you, as I am not certain of the best way to help put an end to this practice that still persists on a large scale in the Dawoodi Bohra community of India. However, your explanation of how people themselves changed this social convention in Africa through discussing non judgmental information on the dangers and human rights violations of FGC, then allowing people to collectively abandon the practice, seems the best way forward.

In the meantime, I hope that you will publish this letter to let others know that women suffer greatly from this practice, not only in Africa, but in other countries such as India as well. Women need to break the silence and support one another in this effort so that our daughters will have a brighter future in the years to come”.

http://breakthesilencespeakthetruth.wordpress.com/

[sixfeetunder]

Those who defend FGM are inhuman bigots! Religious fools! For them, rational thinking, common sense, modern science have no value. It is because of fools like them, Muslims stand where they do today. They wouldn't mind putting their daughters to cruelty and pain. They wouldn't mind if she never experiences a normal married, sexual life ever. All they care about is blindly following dubious ancient traditions. Shame on them! Bloody Male Chauvinist Pigs!

[SBM]

Adam

"Science" shouldn't decide your religious practices.

Then how come Kothari Goons are using Scanners to scan E jamaat card, why everything is computerized, is this Science or Shariat? DBs are not allowed to certain program if their e jamaat cards can not be scanned, that in itself shows that Goons give more importance to using scientific use of scanners to keep count rather than have people follow religious practices.
Kothari Goons are the biggest users of Science.

[sixfeetunder]

Ayatullah Seestani, the leading marja-e-taqleed (source of emulation) among Shia twelvers does not consider Female Circumcision as a Sunnah.

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/a ... 00177.html

[SBM]

Ayatullah Seestani, the leading marja-e-taqleed (source of emulation) among Shia twelvers does not consider Female Circumcision as a Sunnah.

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/a ... 00177.html

Adam does not consider Ayatuallah Seestani as Islamic Shia Scholar as Ayatullah does not have RAZA from Syedna and he did not attend Secret Sabaks

[sixfeetunder]

Ayatullah Seestani, the leading marja-e-taqleed (source of emulation) among Shia twelvers does not consider Female Circumcision as a Sunnah.

http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/a ... 00177.html

Adam does not consider Ayatuallah Seestani as Islamic Shia Scholar as Ayatullah does not have RAZA from Syedna and he did not attend Secret Sabaks

Of course. But he claimed to have cited 'Sunni and Shia' sources in favor of FGM. Now, the leading Shia marja-e-taqleed does not consider FGM as a Sunnah. So do many Sunni scholars of high repute. This shows that learned individuals from different schools of thought do not consider FGM to be a mandatory or required practise.

[sixfeetunder]

Question for Adam:

What is the High Priest's official position on FGM? It is believed that he does not enforce FGM for girls. However, clergy wives convey in secret sabaks that 'disgrace will come to a family that does not have their girls circumcised'.

What is the official position of the Bohra High Priest? Does he consider it a Sunnah or a Muqarrama?

[porus]

Of course. But he claimed to have cited 'Sunni and Shia' sources in favor of FGM. Now, the leading Shia marja-e-taqleed does not consider FGM as a Sunnah. So do many Sunni scholars of high repute. This shows that learned individuals from different schools of thought do not consider FGM to be a mandatory or required practise.

I think that FGM, or a variant of it, is depicted as Sunnah by Daimul Islam on the basis of its quotes from Muhammad and Ali.

Except for an abde, it is not a fard like namaaz and roza.

It does not matter to an abde if no one considers FGM a Sunnah. For them, following Daimul Islam is a command from Allah.

Sayedna is unlikely to discourage FGM because he would then appear to have put Daimul Islam into question.

[anajmi]

Oh, C'mon! Africans, Shafii'tes and others don't do it because of Imam Ali's order! There is a hadith quoting the Prophet about FGM. So, if it is The Prophet's order, then does that mean he wasn't the messenger of God? Please keep this topic on track and don't divert it into Shia-are-idol-worshippers kerfuffle!

I said people "like Adam". There is no hadith where the prophet (saw) has ordered FGM. However, there is an order by Imam Ali in Daimul Islam. By the way, my post didn't mention anything about shia idol worshipping. That was an extrapolation on your part to deal with some of my other posts I guess.

[Adam]

SIXFEETUNDER

Of course. But he claimed to have cited 'Sunni and Shia' sources in favor of FGM. Now, the leading Shia marja-e-taqleed does not consider FGM as a Sunnah. So do many Sunni scholars of high repute. This shows that learned individuals from different schools of thought do not consider FGM to be a mandatory or required practise.

Yes, I did mention before, some do quote it some don't. And I also mentioned very clearly that I wasn't citing those sources to justify the Dawoodi Bohra beliefs. They remain the same whether Sunni s or Shias practice it or now.

So do many Sunni scholars of high repute. This shows that learned individuals from different schools

Yes, this Ayatullah guy must sound like someone of "high repute", then again, who decides who's better? The other on the opposition probably considers himself more learned than Mr Ayatullah.
It just comes down to authority, and how the Quran and Shariat are interpreted.

PORUS

I think that FGM, or a variant of it, is depicted as Sunnah by Daimul Islam on the basis of its quotes from Muhammad and Ali.
Except for an abde, it is not a fard like namaaz and roza.
It does not matter to an abde if no one considers FGM a Sunnah. For them, following Daimul Islam is a command from Allah.
Sayedna is unlikely to discourage FGM because he would then appear to have put Daimul Islam into question.

Although you do have a lot of knowledge and I have expressed that. Sometimes, like the other haters, you're hatred takes over common sense.
Femal Circumcision

is depicted as Sunnah by Daimul Islam on the basis of its quotes from Muhammad and Ali.

. Correct. And so we follow it.

Except for an abde, it is not a fard like namaaz and roza.
It does not matter to an abde if no one considers FGM a Sunnah. For them, following Daimul Islam is a command from Allah.

Yes, it's not a FarD like namaz and roza. Those are the Pillars of Islam.
But it is an order of the Prophet and his Wasi, so it carries much importance, just like a FarD.

For them, following Daimul Islam is a command from Allah

Un necessarily said. The Daim ul Islam contains orders of OUR IMAMS. Thus we follow it.
These are our sources. Why can't you just follow your own?
Counter arguing, since you're trying to compare the order of Female Circumcision to Namaz and Roza, why don't you compare Male Circumcision with it? Are you saying because it isn't a farD like namaz and roza, we don't need to do it? This is WRONG.
Then don't get circumcized since you don't think it's important. There are many other deeds that aren't the PILLARS of Islam, but are equally important to follow because they are the orders of the Prophet SAW.

[Al Zulfiqar]

deeds that aren't the PILLARS of Islam, but are equally important to follow because they are the orders of the Prophet SAW.

Indeed?? the prophet has likened the wanton killing of animals as a crime against humanity and allah himself. is the syedna following it?
the prophet never allowed any human to do sajda to him or refer to his children as prince or princess, is the syedna following this?
the prophet never took money from anyone to enter their houses. is the syedna following this?
the prophet never discriminated against any of his followers on the basis of wealth or their gifts to him, is the syedna following this?
the prophet was completely transparent in his life and accounts, never refusing to answer his detractors or critics, is the syedna following this?

now dont ask me for SOURCES or my beliefs, because these are YOUR statements and you need to defend them. its your beliefs on the line, so dont try to wiggle out by making ridiculous excuses. if you do that once again, you will have shown us that you are nothing but a liar and coward.

[Human]

Adam's responses are all BS. Order of prophet or not, FGM is bad and should be banned everywhere like it is in some western nations; end of story. I wonder what would it be like if Hindus still practiced SATI in today's day and age?
If you support FGM despite knowing the medical wrongs of it, you're a senseless fool. And if you say science doesn't matter when it comes to things like FGM then you're a HYPOCRITE! Just count how many things you use which wouldn't exist without science.

[Adam]

@Al Zulfiqar
You're comments are off the topic of this thread. Please continue it somewhere else.
We're discussing the topic of Female Circumcision. All we need to do is decide whether it is the farmaan of the Prophet of not.
Very simple

HUMANS response is extremely interesting

Order of prophet or not, FGM is bad and should be banned everywhere like it is in some western nations; end of story.

He boldly rejects the teachings of the Prophet! And no one is defending that claim.

I wonder what would it be like if Hindus still practiced SATI in today's day and age?

What do you mean to say in this sentence?
Are you comparing the teachings of the Prophet as "old" and "un acceptable" in todays times?

If you support FGM despite knowing the medical wrongs of it, you're a senseless fool.

Are you saying you'd consider the advice of a doctor over the Prophet SAW?
I support Female Circumcision firstly and only because it is the order of the Prophet SAW. For ME the Prophet comes before ANY medical research. The Prophet knows what's best.

And if you say science doesn't matter when it comes to things like FGM then you're a HYPOCRITE! Just count how many things you use which wouldn't exist without science.

Twisting your words aren't you. I never said there aren't benefits. I said the Prophet knows better.
In regard to science, of course I use it, but whenever science conflicts with my RELIGIOUS beliefs, I know which one to prefer. Science says Pork maybe good for you (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/christ ... 05049.html), now, will you chuck the order of the Prophet?
You claim to be a "Muslim" and don't even follow the order of the Prophet. Now who's the HYPOCRITE.

Like I said before, first confirm if it is the order of the Prophet. We believe so and we will follow it. Simple.

[Human]

HUMANS response is extremely interesting

Order of prophet or not, FGM is bad and should be banned everywhere like it is in some western nations; end of story.

He boldly rejects the teachings of the Prophet! And no one is defending that claim.

I wonder what would it be like if Hindus still practiced SATI in today's day and age?

What do you mean to say in this sentence?
Are you comparing the teachings of the Prophet as "old" and "un acceptable" in todays times?

YES. You have to change with times. Example: Primitive people used to believe the Gods are angry whenever there was lightening in the sky. You don't believe that today, do you?

If you support FGM despite knowing the medical wrongs of it, you're a senseless fool.

Are you saying you'd consider the advice of a doctor over the Prophet SAW?

YES, I'd go with what doctor/science/medical research says. Example: FGM is bad regardless of whether the Prophet made it compulsory or not. It might have seemed like a good idea at the time, not anymore though.

I support Female Circumcision firstly and only because it is the order of the Prophet SAW. For ME the Prophet comes before ANY medical research. The Prophet knows what's best.

You're foolish and selfish. Being a man you impose such a thing on women, young girls indeed. Shame on you! And I'm sure those poor girls who get circumcised will curse your likes for the rest of their lives.

And if you say science doesn't matter when it comes to things like FGM then you're a HYPOCRITE! Just count how many things you use which wouldn't exist without science.

Twisting your words aren't you. I never said there aren't benefits. I said the Prophet knows better.
In regard to science, of course I use it, but whenever science conflicts with my RELIGIOUS beliefs, I know which one to prefer. Science says Pork maybe good for you (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/christ ... 05049.html), now, will you chuck the order of the Prophet?

YES, personally I see no logic in that. If you eat one type of meat, why not eat any type of meat.

You claim to be a "Muslim" and don't even follow the order of the Prophet. Now who's the HYPOCRITE.

*LAUGHS* Don't get too ahead of yourself there. I did not make any claims and contrary to your presumptuous belief I don't claim to be a 'Muslim'. So you're still the HYPOCRITE and a selfish one at that (Poor girls )

[profastian]

*LAUGHS* Don't get too ahead of yourself there. I did not make any claims and contrary to your presumptuous belief I don't claim to be a 'Muslim'. So you're still the HYPOCRITE and a selfish one at that (Poor girls )

Khoda Pahar nikla chooha