loser progs shame on you

[revertbohra]

I was talking with a local momeen of surat and tried to find out if some money is taken from them for all this expenses (as the prog claims), but I was so glad to find not not a penny is taken from localites all the expenses of milad are taken away by people volunterily (off course those who heave money and are ready to spend it.)

I asked him if some money was taken by force and he said he has not paid a penny and he don't even know any one from whom money is taken by force.

so in short all the bullshiit from prog on this forum is just vague and ground reality is absolutely different.

[SBM]

I was talking with a local momeen of surat and tried to find out if some money is taken from them for all this expenses (as the prog claims), but I was so glad to find not not a penny is taken from localites all the expenses of milad are taken away by people volunterily (off course those who heave money and are ready to spend it.)

I asked him if some money was taken by force and he said he has not paid a penny and he don't even know any one from whom money is taken by force.

so in short all the bullshiit from prog on this forum is just vague and ground reality is absolutely different.

In words of your Mentor Adam:
CAN YOU PROVIDE THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER OF THAT PERSON SO YOUR STORY CAN BE VERIFIED
WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE AND WHAT WAS HIS STATE OF MIND?
Did you read on this forum a e mail from North American Jamaat asking for Najwa and no one is giving voluntarily As I said you need an IQ of 20 or better to post on this forum, I hope you get an improved IQ while in Surat.

[revertbohra]

I was talking with a local momeen of surat and tried to find out if some money is taken from them for all this expenses (as the prog claims), but I was so glad to find not not a penny is taken from localites all the expenses of milad are taken away by people volunterily (off course those who heave money and are ready to spend it.)

I asked him if some money was taken by force and he said he has not paid a penny and he don't even know any one from whom money is taken by force.

so in short all the bullshiit from prog on this forum is just vague and ground reality is absolutely different.

In words of your Mentor Adam:
CAN YOU PROVIDE THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER OF THAT PERSON SO YOUR STORY CAN BE VERIFIED
WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE AND WHAT WAS HIS STATE OF MIND?
Did you read on this forum a e mail from North American Jamaat asking for Najwa and no one is giving voluntarily As I said you need an IQ of 20 or better to post on this forum, I hope you get an improved IQ while in Surat.

his state of mind was really stable,but puppy it seems u do lose your state of mind and start barking time to time

[Al Zulfiqar]

[quote="revertbohra"]

.... and he said he has not paid a penny

quote]

neither have i

surat mein hullad ho raha hai, aur mumbai mein chaati khol he ghum raha hai...?

[shabbir4u]

I was talking with a local momeen of surat and tried to find out if some money is taken from them for all this expenses (as the prog claims), but I was so glad to find not not a penny is taken from localites all the expenses of milad are taken away by people volunterily (off course those who heave money and are ready to spend it.)

I asked him if some money was taken by force and he said he has not paid a penny and he don't even know any one from whom money is taken by force.

so in short all the bullshiit from prog on this forum is just vague and ground reality is absolutely different.

In words of your Mentor Adam:
CAN YOU PROVIDE THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER OF THAT PERSON SO YOUR STORY CAN BE VERIFIED
WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE AND WHAT WAS HIS STATE OF MIND?
Did you read on this forum a e mail from North American Jamaat asking for Najwa and no one is giving voluntarily As I said you need an IQ of 20 or better to post on this forum, I hope you get an improved IQ while in Surat.

Hello SBM
Y u want that person name and number?
did some one has ask money from you ?

[Al Zulfiqar]

Hello SBM Y u want that person name and number?

we are only following adam's modus operandi.
1. we need the correct SOURCE of reverse bohra's info
2. we need to know who is your's, rb's and this bohra munafiq who has not paid any money's, - leader
3. which are your books and where are they hidden
4. what is your belief system? uptil which imam and dai do you all believe in
5. are you all muslims or abde bohras?

[revertbohra]

^person who cant even pronounce his name correctly wants to change dawaat

Al gaddar go and first find out correct spellings of your name,then come and teach what islaam is....

[Al Zulfiqar]

reverse bohra,

you have to be in reverse sajda 24/7 to your dai, on top of that both your hands should be used for banging your chest and head. its clear that you are disobeying your dai and not doing both when you keep coming to this forum.

dai will refuse you ruku chithhi when you die..

[revertbohra]

reverse bohra,

you have to be in reverse sajda 24/7 to your dai, on top of that both your hands should be used for banging your chest and head. its clear that you are disobeying your dai and not doing both when you keep coming to this forum.

dai will refuse you ruku chithhi when you die..

your ruku chitthi is denied?

[asad]

RevertBohra,

Any idea how 2 lac+ people will be accommodated. Food is taken care in Khaimatur riyazat (cotton mill) but what about basic accomodation.

[humanbeing]

Kuwait jamat has come with new modusoperandi. No one is forced to pay but persuaded ! Earlier, donating for hoob was majorly during muharram and ramadan, now hoob is asked for any mikaat. Although it’s a voluntary payment but in reality, everyone ends up paying for it. Jamaat administrators have controlled/regulated the inflow and attendance of people. Everyone is required to do some crappy registration online for attending any mikaat. This registration conveniently has a hoob option to be pledged. Anyone who registers for the mikaat is issued a gate pass to enter the markaz for the event. This gates are supervised by scanner machines (by silly young abde idiots) to take attendance of issued passes. If they find someone who doesn’t have a pass is taken by side and asked to register.

Now on milaad mikaat, everyone is requested to give gold coins as Najwa ! phew, whats the fascination with gold ? Sayedna Saheb is too old, too ill and not in senses to demand or enjoy such wordly gifts.. This spineless Kothari Royals are nicely using people’s emotion to make moolah. Ofcourse there are insecured idiots who will be running to give away gold they own, in greedy expectation of more barakaat. Ek Sikka aaapo … 10 Sikko ni barakaat thaase.

Inpsite of heavily charging sabeel amount per month (KD 7 for family and KD 3 for Bachelors), Kuwait Jamaat is asking people to donate money for flat screen televisions for the markaz. What beggars !

[asad]

@HB,

greed is in human nature, the more we pamper it the more it raises its head. In your jamaat people have not confronted and thats why they are forced. Might be Kuwait is distributed in small centers so it makes easy for jamaat to target individually. The Jamaat i am member of has 14000 plus sabil members, their has been never any coercion, Jamaat sends out emails like SBM has shown in some thread, we just ignore them its as simple as that. Jamaat hands over envelops on every Miqaat like you told, we take them and put them back on a table placed out side in sehan. 5-10% people pay on all miqaats, thats it. I pay on only major ones which i was doing before.

And i think in your case also if you tell them once that you are not in mood to pay they will leave you. its generally women of the family who force these kind of things, Man are more rational or money minded to look at the other aspect of barakat for money.

one more thing, your city bachelors are paying half of what mine were paying last year. and mind your their has been a 50% increase this year onwards. So from this year its 9KD per month.

[humanbeing]

Hi Asad !!
Cool ! you just said what goes on over here ! Are you from Kuwait too ? If not I m surprised, this trick goes everywhere. You are right, they place salaam covers on the table or sometime there is a mulla or sheikh standing at the door to hand it to attendees. Generally, some shy and some go-with-the-flow people take the cover and pay it up.

Kuwait is very well populated with bohras from india predominantly. Rough estimates are 24000 bohras in Kuwait. Also there is no direct or visible force to pay, but there is social persuasion, isolation and women’s pressure for social standing. It’s a sad irony (in my POV) women wants to pay up so that they are not ridiculed in social circle (kitty parties, thaals, sitting arrangements etc) men really don’t care for such pressures, but for peace of mind at home and of course some “genius” who are really brainwashed to pay up. Majority crib and bitch about such arbitrary demands although voluntary, but family men knows, they will end up paying something.

The trick of such close supervision is clever. There are bunch of sheikhs who usually sit at the main entrance of the markaz, supervising various schemes desk and persuading known acquaintances to contribute in Sawaab Ma Shaamil Thaao. There are several advantages.

Due to social / business relations a person may pay up to maintain good relations.

If someone objects such persuasion, that person is marked and is taken care of when he/she would need jamat service for personal occasion.

Inspite of Desk on the main entrance to make payments, there are few mullas and sheikhs roaming inside the markaz with a receipt book and cajoling for Niyaaz-e-Hussain contribution, amount is minimal like KD 1 voucher. Its usually at the time of jaman.

There is another desk for Sabeel-e-Hussain, cajoling people to sawaab ma shaamil thaao at refreshment sabeel.

Apart from such avenues to pay, there is irritating zaroori elaan echoing over the speakers for paying up hoobs and some scheme fund (latest being MSB school project in Kuwait.)

As per my latest knowledge, sabeel amount is KD 7 for family and KD 3 for bachelors. Also Jamaat negotiates amount to KD 5 for family and KD 1 for bachelors who cannot afford to pay up. Considering 24000 (roughly) bohra are present in Kuwait and taking a conservative average, amount collected in sabeel is good enough to cover expenses (salaries, rent, house-keeping and for Pesty Amil) Apart from that, sponsored jamans, mikaat salaams, najwa shukur, laagats, service salaams (darees, janaza, common raza, etc), hoob donations, commercial renting of markaz (birthdays, marriage, nisbat) are additional income enjoyed by kuwait jamaat.

My PoVs, Observation are with reference to main community hall in Kuwait (Central Markaz). Although respective local markaz may also enjoy additional income facility.

[revertbohra]

in short wanna eat much but dont wanna pay

[humanbeing]

HI RB
This statement aptly applies to Amils in Kuwait. Who is always upto some scheme to squeeze any penny from the commoners. Chief pest (central amil) lives in a luxury bunglow at a posh locality in Kuwait, rent of this bunglow runs into lacs in Indian currency. Even by Kuwait standard he lives a life of rich sheikh. Inspite of huge residence he has several well decorated office around the state of Kuwait and is always pampered by back bending, knees kissing slaves around. He charges for everything, a simple raza involves doing salaam to him, and if someone does not, he will be taken by the side and instructed to do it with money. He charges fixed KD 11 – 15 for every raza for jaman sponsor.

Before idiot jump to say, wh..wh.wh.. wh.whats wrong with life of luxury. Yes ! there is nothing wrong with life of luxury if earned through decent and honest means. This pest lives off in more than he can afford in his wazeefa, ofcourse salaams and other clandestine activity of using jamaat funds to make moolah. Commoners are paying off to maintain markaz and run administration expense, when question is raised about accountability then commoners are asked to shut up as markaz is kothar’s property and they can use it raza na sahib wishes. Irony of this double standard pest(amil) is, he will give ball talks of austerity citing example of Maulana Ali, and he himself living a life of extravagance pomp and treatment. What a shame !

If there is anyone who is freeloading in our community, it is these priestly class.

And what are you saying about eat much and not wanna pay !! are these guys running a restaurant ?? what happened to the intention of Khidmat and benevolence ? If everyone is suppose to pay up, then where is the nobility of our community, once it stood for ! You are too naïve and shallow minded to understand the concept of khidmat.

No one is poor and shameless to come and eat for free !! there are self respected people who are working hard and saving penny by penny to make ends meet. And if there is a soul who gets a respite to have a good meal at such community centres, then s pest put forward this justification

in short wanna eat much but dont wanna pay

However I m not sad at your POV. I understand its not your fault.

[asad]

HB,
You have a flare of writing, keep it up. I remember that in your earlier write ups you were writing with a doubt in mind against the system but now you seem to have made up yours and thats why more of non civil words are coming up in your posts. Avoid them. We dont need to lower our standard to put across our points. I too have made some uncouth remarks in the past in my post and i regret them. Civility only differentiates other wise we all think alike and face the same enemy.

[profastian]

HB,
You have a flare of writing, keep it up. I remember that in your earlier write ups you were writing with a doubt in mind against the system but now you seem to have made up yours and thats why more of non civil words are coming up in your posts.

That was a good playacting job. He is just a filthy hypocrite who was trying to garner support from some of the abdes and maybe some adbe's opinions. Nobody changes their faith in a matter of days.

[humanbeing]

Hi Asad

Thanks for your appreciation. Sincere apologies for being uncivil. Although I have been ridiculed by few abdes here. I have controlled not to fall to their levels of frustration.

[SBM]

Kuwait jamat has come with new modusoperandi. No one is forced to pay but persuaded ! Earlier, donating for hoob was majorly during muharram and ramadan, now hoob is asked for any mikaat. Although it’s a voluntary payment but in reality, everyone ends up paying for it. Jamaat administrators have controlled/regulated the inflow and attendance of people. Everyone is required to do some crappy registration online for attending any mikaat. This registration conveniently has a hoob option to be pledged. Anyone who registers for the mikaat is issued a gate pass to enter the markaz for the event. This gates are supervised by scanner machines (by silly young abde idiots) to take attendance of issued passes. If they find someone who doesn’t have a pass is taken by side and asked to register.

Now on milaad mikaat, everyone is requested to give gold coins as Najwa ! phew, whats the fascination with gold ? Sayedna Saheb is too old, too ill and not in senses to demand or enjoy such wordly gifts.. This spineless Kothari Royals are nicely using people’s emotion to make moolah. Ofcourse there are insecured idiots who will be running to give away gold they own, in greedy expectation of more barakaat. Ek Sikka aaapo … 10 Sikko ni barakaat thaase.

Inpsite of heavily charging sabeel amount per month (KD 7 for family and KD 3 for Bachelors), Kuwait Jamaat is asking people to donate money for flat screen televisions for the markaz. What beggars !

Dear HB
I think I like this idea of "FEE FOR SERVICE" if you go you pay, makes it easy for people who do not want to go and scream poverty, May be then they will come with scheme to give Qarde Hasanah to attend these Mikaats, But overall I would have no problem as I only attend 3 events a year
and still pay the entire amount.

[humanbeing]

Dear SBM

Fee-For-Serivce is a good idea, I too support this concept, but not in the case of religious mikaats of public nature. Religious mikaats such as majlises and main events (muharram and Ramadan) are important from religious as well social POV. Bohra faith has a history and way of life, it shall be carried forward to next generation but not in the way its happening. I m not able to express in short words and I don’t want to write an essay.

Certain events (Ramadan, Muharram, Important dates in Islamic and Bohra history) shall be spared from commercialization and emphasis shall be on piety, unity, compassion and sharing.

Fee-For-Service could be plausible for personal events such as nikaah, funeral, darees etc etc. for the actual logistics and efforts taken by the service provider. Rates shall be regulated as per perceived value of the event and if buyer doesn’t want to avail services of a particular seller, then buyer shall not be harassed. The merit and friendliness of service will automatically ensure repeat business for the seller. Phony, shallow and rude sellers will be ignored. In this cases both parties have equal influence over each other. Ensure a sustainable life of respect and comfort to person who has dedicated learning religion and performing rituals for others in the society.

[Maqbool]

Ek Sikka aaapo … 10 Sikko ni barakaat thaase.

This reminds me the song sung by a beggar:
tum ek paisa doge, woh dus lakh dega

[asad]

HB/SBM,

Fee for service can be a good idea but fee for food is definitely not in line with what Imams have preached and practiced. dont give Kothar a new avenue to exploit.

[aligns]

CAN YOU PROVIDE THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER OF THAT PERSON SO YOUR STORY CAN BE VERIFIED

Haha... what a dumb question to ask? People are hiding behind fake names on this forum and you want the name, phone number etc. of a genuine person who has nothing to do with this forum (may not even know if such a forum exists).

Grow up SBM. You progs are faking news all over this forum, everyday, each post and yet we never ask such a dumb question to reveal the name, number, state-of-mind of the person etc who gave you the information. There are people on this forum whose work is to generate 'news' out of nowhere and misguide others and its a shame that you progs are believing them instead of believing in Daa'i.

[SBM]

CAN YOU PROVIDE THE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER OF THAT PERSON SO YOUR STORY CAN BE VERIFIED

Haha... what a dumb question to ask? People are hiding behind fake names on this forum and you want the name, phone number etc. of a genuine person who has nothing to do with this forum (may not even know if such a forum exists).

Grow up SBM. You progs are faking news all over this forum, everyday, each post and yet we never ask such a dumb question to reveal the name, number, state-of-mind of the person etc who gave you the information. There are people on this forum whose work is to generate 'news' out of nowhere and misguide others and its a shame that you progs are believing them instead of believing in Daa'i.

Aligns
You must be a brain dead person, Go and read your Marster Adam's posting, every post by that Abde Regressive starts with providing your belief, your source and your background. And btw this is a not a news channel but a Progressive forum where Abde Regressives are free to express their opinions and for an abde if killing of Mumineen in Gujrat is irrelevant then SHAME ON YOU ABDE REGRESSIVES
As far as believing Dai, why do not you believe in 51st Dai when he said that there is no such thing as hidden Imam, either he was a liar and thus not infallible or you are a brain dead zombie so which one?

[aligns]

Aligns
You must be a brain dead person, Go and read your Marster Adam's posting, every post by that Abde Regressive starts with providing your belief, your source and your background. And btw this is a not a news channel but a Progressive forum where Abde Regressives are free to express their opinions and for an abde if killing of Mumineen in Gujrat is irrelevant then SHAME ON YOU ABDE REGRESSIVES
As far as believing Dai, why do not you believe in 51st Dai when he said that there is no such thing as hidden Imam, either he was a liar and thus not infallible or you are a brain dead zombie so which one?

Another beating around the bush. Frustration frustration and frustration in each post. When will you ppl start discussing the 'REAL' issues that you have? When?

You Progs must confess that you still don't know what are you looking for? You just keep on finding mistakes in a person (be it Daai, his shehzadas, or his followers) and start bragging about it in this forum to keep it alive . Otherwise, if you just discuss the issues from where you started with few decades ago, this forum would have made sense.

There are many progs like ozmujaheed (a pig), who writes that he has seen the complete milad relay and was disgusted with 'Millions of rupees spent on self praise, gold, gemstones and fan fare showered.'
How funny? Why he has to see the complete relay and waste his time and get frustrated at the end? Is he a journalist? Or is he just unemployed and had nothing better work to do? Are all progs on this forum doing same thing every day?
I know everyone has full rights in a democratic country to speak and write about anything, but then is this what this forum is for?

[ozmujaheed]

Align

You can call me a pig whatever, but what is abhorring is that you are prepared to defend the oppressive corrupt practises! What does that make you ?

Also read that the people zadas you defend are like the assads who are immune to human suffering and cannot understand the issue

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ideos.html

You may be right I am frustrated that when elders stood up 30 years ago abdes including my parents and relatives deserted the the progs and now do not realize how much they have sunk into the mess. I will not make the mistake that my elders made.

This is a dog whistle to the lying dogs this is not intended to be derogatory ...the longer we live the mess the harder it will be to bring back this lost safina, generations will be lost.

So your criticism for freedom is incorrect, yes we need to criticize because if we don't it will be accepted that the practices are okay, they are not ok, stand up and make a stand, your Islam , your nation, your society in 2012 does not deny your freedom, why do abdes allow a bunch of 1000 zada trample on your rights?

I did not waste time looking at the drama unfolding during the milad but it gave me a chance to differentiate my values from the lost sheep,s values. It is important to know time and time again how deep the hole is !

[humanbeing]

Another beating around the bush. Frustration frustration and frustration in each post. When will you ppl start discussing the 'REAL' issues that you have? When?

Issues discussed on the forum here, are also discussed in social groups when abde bohra meets. There are self interest groups who would be gloating and exaggerating over trips of sayedna saheb and his retinue all around.

There are also groups I have come across and interacted with, where; insider information about kothar, rift within the family, small – big embezzlement frauds, and criticism of flimsy policies to regulate crowd in the markaz are discussed.

I have not/never come across or interacted with progressive/reformist person or a group to discuss such issues. So to my surprise, I have seen the very fanatic abde (long bushy beard) gossiping and brooding over corruption in the bohra society.

There are fantastic, thought provoking stories I have heard from such gossips, but I don’t put them on this forum as they are mere gossip without any substantiation. But the people who are sharing such gossip are well known member or associates of jamaat administration.

Its not only progressives who are observing and criticizing kothari leadership and management, but there are many abdes too who are disgruntled and frustrated with how community affairs are shaping up. Any social interaction (thaals, get togethers, picnics, shared flats) where bunch of bohra come together, there is bound to be discussion on some sort of hot topic under discussion.

[Al Zulfiqar]

I know everyone has full rights in a democratic country to speak and write about anything, but then is this what this forum is for?

finally, a glimmer of intelligence! yes, this forum stands for democracy and human rights.

is that a concept your immature abde brain can wrap itself around?

[aligns]

You may be right I am frustrated that when elders stood up 30 years ago abdes including my parents and relatives deserted the the progs and now do not realize how much they have sunk into the mess. I will not make the mistake that my elders made.

It doesn't make me happy writing this, but seeing where you are headed to you will remain frustrated for your entire life. The issues for which your elders stood up were entirely different (and were reasonable at that time, since they had limited information). But the issues progs have today are far different than that. Your elders were not against each and every action of Daai, they never questioned state-of-mind of Daai or presence of Imam, or superstitions in DB etc etc. But with times and with new generations, progs have become anti-DB in each and every respect. They want to oppose whatever DB does, and especially this so-called 'open forum' has become the vomiting gutter for all such criticisms and frustrations.

[aligns]

finally, a glimmer of intelligence! yes, this forum stands for democracy and human rights.

is that a concept your immature abde brain can wrap itself around?

Islam never had democracy, and never will. In fact you cannot mix democracy and religion. If thats what you are looking for, you never gonna get it. If you don't wanna follow a religion/sect/subsect, just leave it. But you can never ask for it to become a political or democratic setup where you can create your own party and debate each and every small religious matter. The mistake that you are doing for more than three decades now.