The True Imam - How would you verify?

[Al Zulfiqar]

S. Insaf (very quiet indeed, only when it suits him, he's a coward)

adam,

bhai insaf is in his seventies and not keeping too well with failing eyesight. he responds only when he can.

if we apply that same cruel logic of yours, syedna has never come here to defend himself or express his opinions. he is very quiet indeed. is he a bigger coward??

[profastian]

S. Insaf (very quiet indeed, only when it suits him, he's a coward)

adam,

bhai insaf is in his seventies and not keeping too well with failing eyesight. he responds only when he can.

if we apply that same cruel logic of yours, syedna has never come here to defend himself or express his opinions. he is very quiet indeed. is he a bigger coward??

Sirf 70 saal main andha ho gaya

[anajmi]

Abe, abde idiot to 13 saal mein hi misaq ke bad andha ho jaata hai!!

[Adam]

@Humsafar
Again, a very nonsensical cop-out.
All that needed to be discussed on this thread in a very simple manner was this:
-How will the Dawoodi Bohras verify the Imam = Through the Dai
-How will the Proggies verify the Imam? = Don't know yet, as the don't have a Dai to follow

PORUS

I do not expect Adam to budge but he must me thanked for affording us all an opportunity to clarify our stance.

You have a nice way of making me feel better :p

Dai Abi Abdallah was part of Imam's entourage in satr and he knew the Imam very well.

Correction. He DIDN'T.
Dai AbilQasim knew the Imam. Not Dai Abi Abdillah.

Hence what Sayedna Taher Saifuddin described in his most likely invented story about the Maghribi trader and Imam al-Tayyib is the likely scenario. Imam will make an appearance under his own authority and will not need the Dai, and may or may not use him.

About the Sunni Trader. I already gave my opinion.
Since the Sunni wasn't following the Dai of the time, the Imam would have made an appearance under his own authority. But the leadership of the Dai is in place for his own followers, they will go through him.

I do not think that any Imam is coming. Nevertheless, here we go.

I would say your need to continue this topic stops right there.
This is a discussion between So-called-progs and Abdes (Imamat believing people after the 21st) about the return of the Imam, and HONESTLY doesn't concern you.
Because, since you are not a Imam believer, you're not a Proggy or a Dawoodi Bohra (Abde).
Since you're not an Imam believer, your answers will be "biased" to not leaning towards any opinion that discusses the Imam in general, let alone the Zuhoor. Which is actually against the Proggy belief as well, but they're too much of cowards to believe it.

@Gulam

(They couldn't do it without them)

I meant, the people couldn't do without the Prophets. Stop twisting words and use your brain for a second.

@GULAM / HUMSAFAR / AL ZULFIQAR
You three seem to be Proggies,but don't have the courage to say it out. Confused, Lying or against your own belief
Sticking to this thread, very clearly state:
Do you believe that there is an Imam today (After the 21st Imam)?
If Yes, do you believe that the Imam will do Zuhoor anytime?
If Yes, How will you verify the Imam?

We have already clarified our stance, now you clarify yours. (Non Imam Believers, please hold your opinions till these guys are allowed to speak, so that they don't dodge again. I request you to speak after that. Thank you)

[humanbeing]

This is a discussion between So-called-progs and Abdes (Imamat believing people after the 21st) about the return of the Imam, and HONESTLY doesn't concern you.
Because, since you are not a Imam believer, you're not a Proggy or a Dawoodi Bohra (Abde).
Since you're not an Imam believer, your answers will be "biased" to not leaning towards any opinion that discusses the Imam in general, let alone the Zuhoor.

Hi Adam

Although I do not have profound knowledge of Fatimid / Dawoodi philosophies discussed on this thread. But as a commoner I have certain queries.

Concept of Imamat applies to All in this world. Then …

Prime facie, whose responsibility it is to educate / inform / invite / warn people who are ignorant of such concept, condition or lack of awareness ?

From Bohra belief / history/ philosophy it is very clear that, Dais have been carrying on the task of educating / informing / inviting people to Daawat or deen of Islam under the guidance of Imam-in-presence / seclusion.

What were the sources of spreading this education and create awareness of Imam in past?

Further on, what are the current efforts to educate uninformed masses* of concept of Imamat ?

*uninformed masses are rest of 6 billion non bohras on the earth.

[Adam]

Salam
Nice questions.
Take it to another thread. We'll discuss there.

[porus]

PORUS

This is a discussion between So-called-progs and Abdes (Imamat believing people after the 21st) about the return of the Imam, and HONESTLY doesn't concern you.
Because, since you are not a Imam believer, you're not a Proggy or a Dawoodi Bohra (Abde).
Since you're not an Imam believer, your answers will be "biased" to not leaning towards any opinion that discusses the Imam in general, let alone the Zuhoor. Which is actually against the Proggy belief as well, but they're too much of cowards to believe it.

Adam,

That is a silly position to take and you know it. Hundreds of non-Muslims study, discuss and write about Islam and its history including Fatimid/Tayyibi/Dawwodi Bohra history. And Daawat is in no position, at least until the mythical Imam makes his appearance, to enforce how free people express their opinions. Even then, Imam will be opposed vigorously for attempting to legislate against freedom of thought and speech. Freedom-loving people all over the world tell the Imam to go fly a kite.

As far as 'bias' is concerned, it is you who are biased towards a specific revisionist interpretation of Islamic history and philosophy. My mind is open and I seek information and believe in spreading it as widely as possible.

One of the popular beliefs of abdes is that the first thing that Imam will do after his zuhoor is to march into Masjid-e-Nabawi and destroy the graves of of Abu Bakr and Umar which are buried next to the grave of Rasulullah and remove their bodies from there. Well, then. Here is one way in which that the Imam will offer the proof of his legitimacy and verify himself. Imam who destroys the graves of Abu Bakr and Umar will be the 'true' Imam. Then we can all prostrate in front of him. From that day onwards, Masjid-e-Nabawi will called Masjid-e-Qiblatain al-thaani since, just like Masjid-e-Qiblatain (al-awwal), it will have two Qiblas, Makkah and the Imam, the latter being a mobile Qibla.

[Adam]

Thanks PORUS.
That is your opinion.
And since you aren't of the belief of an Imam coming, no signs at the time of the True Imam will affect you, and you don't consider him legitimate. So discussing about this whole thing again, is senseless.
Furthermore, as a person of your intelligence and maturity, ridiculing others beliefs isn't the right way forward. So please refrain.

That is a silly position to take and you know it. Hundreds of non-Muslims study, discuss and write about Islam and its history including Fatimid/Tayyibi/Dawwodi Bohra history.

Yes, discuss. But keep it to that without offering your own biased interpretations. That I don't accept .... etc etc

This thread was to answer how the Dawoodi Bohras will verify the Imam.
The Abdes have already clarified it.
Now its up to the Proggies to stand up and answer according to their own beliefs.

@GULAM / HUMSAFAR / AL ZULFIQAR
You three seem to be Proggies,but don't have the courage to say it out. Confused, Lying or against your own belief
Sticking to this thread, very clearly state:
Do you believe that there is an Imam today (After the 21st Imam)?
If Yes, do you believe that the Imam will do Zuhoor anytime?
If Yes, How will you verify the Imam?

We have already clarified our stance, now you clarify yours. (Non Imam Believers, please hold your opinions till these guys are allowed to speak, so that they don't dodge again. I request you to speak after that. Thank you)

[porus]

Thanks PORUS.
That is your opinion.
And since you aren't of the belief of an Imam coming, no signs at the time of the True Imam will affect you, and you don't consider him legitimate. So discussing about this whole thing again, is senseless.
Furthermore, as a person of your intelligence and maturity, ridiculing others beliefs isn't the right way forward. So please refrain.

That is a silly position to take and you know it. Hundreds of non-Muslims study, discuss and write about Islam and its history including Fatimid/Tayyibi/Dawwodi Bohra history.

Yes, discuss. But keep it to that without offering your own biased interpretations. That I don't accept .... etc etc

Adam,

Although I do not believe that there is a hidden Imam in the progeny of al-Tayyib, I am open to conversion on the basis of new knowledge. Either way, belief or unbelief, I fully intend to comment on any or all issues being discussed here whether you accept or not. My views, opinions and interpretations, like yours, have in-built personal bias as a result of my personal history. The difference is that I am open and you are closed to change.

[Al Zulfiqar]

porus,

in short, adam has to understand that his being here on a reformist forum is a privilege, not his right. secondly, this is a forum where any and every viewpoint is heard and everyone is free to contribute whatever and wherever they choose. he doesn't get to moderate, administrate, dictate, bully or control, much as he would like to or is used to, according to his slavish mentality.

this forum is not his baap ki jaagir.

[ghulam muhammed]

@GULAM / HUMSAFAR / AL ZULFIQAR

You three seem to be Proggies,but don't have the courage to say it out. Confused, Lying or against your own belief

Dont you understand plain and simple english ? I have already said that Iam not a member of the Progressive group so where does the question of confused, lying etc arise ?

Do you believe that there is an Imam today (After the 21st Imam)?

If Yes, do you believe that the Imam will do Zuhoor anytime?

If Yes, How will you verify the Imam?

I have already answered it earlier but you seem to be adamant on playing the same record again and again. Now for the last time to put it very briefly......... I believe in concentrating on the present and preparing myself for the hereafter as I, like everyone else is not aware of the time when my Allah (swt) will call me, it may be today, tomorow or after some years. So why should I waste my time in speculation and controversies created by varied sects when I can use the same time in trying to become a better human in the eyes of Allah (swt). I have earlier stated that Imam is not mohtaj of anyone and doesnt need sultans and shehzadas to identify and prove himself. And as anajmi rightly said that if he is the one whom the present day dai identifies then surely he is not the one who is supposed to eradicate misery, corruption, idol worship and financial/spiritual exploitation in the name of religion. Just as Prophet (s.a.w.) didnt need anyone to prove himself so also the Imam from his progeny will not need anyone. Lastly, if Allah (swt) loves me then He will give me hidaya to follow the one whom He ordains. Hence I do not claim to be a super human who has the sixth sense as Iam always in need of His blessings come what may and Iam sure that He will guide me and anyone else who loves Him selflessly and who doesnt follow leaders who are the cause of the massive rift and division in His Ummah.

[profastian]

PORUS

This is a discussion between So-called-progs and Abdes (Imamat believing people after the 21st) about the return of the Imam, and HONESTLY doesn't concern you.
Because, since you are not a Imam believer, you're not a Proggy or a Dawoodi Bohra (Abde).
Since you're not an Imam believer, your answers will be "biased" to not leaning towards any opinion that discusses the Imam in general, let alone the Zuhoor. Which is actually against the Proggy belief as well, but they're too much of cowards to believe it.

Adam,

That is a silly position to take and you know it. Hundreds of non-Muslims study, discuss and write about Islam and its history including Fatimid/Tayyibi/Dawwodi Bohra history. And Daawat is in no position, at least until the mythical Imam makes his appearance, to enforce how free people express their opinions. Even then, Imam will be opposed vigorously for attempting to legislate against freedom of thought and speech. Freedom-loving people all over the world tell the Imam to go fly a kite.

As far as 'bias' is concerned, it is you who are biased towards a specific revisionist interpretation of Islamic history and philosophy. My mind is open and I seek information and believe in spreading it as widely as possible.

One of the popular beliefs of abdes is that the first thing that Imam will do after his zuhoor is to march into Masjid-e-Nabawi and destroy the graves of of Abu Bakr and Umar which are buried next to the grave of Rasulullah and remove their bodies from there. Well, then. Here is one way in which that the Imam will offer the proof of his legitimacy and verify himself. Imam who destroys the graves of Abu Bakr and Umar will be the 'true' Imam. Then we can all prostrate in front of him. From that day onwards, Masjid-e-Nabawi will called Masjid-e-Qiblatain al-thaani since, just like Masjid-e-Qiblatain (al-awwal), it will have two Qiblas, Makkah and the Imam, the latter being a mobile Qibla.

You are really an illiterate. You may have read a number of books, but you understood nothing. We do not believe that when the Imam makes an appearance he will destroys the pigs graves. All the facts are just jumbled up in your twisted mind.

[progticide]

Let me summarize the discussion so far:

Mainstream Dawoodi Bohra stand on the topic of Verifying the True Imam - Single, Unanimous stand: Dai-e-Mutlaq's word would be final and he would guide the community in identifying the True Imam.

Progressive stand on the topic of verifying the True Imam - No single, unified stand. Personal Opinions in summary below:
Doctor Mubarak - Believes in the Hidden Imam. For verifying the genuineness, he would conduct the test himself using some novel Litmus Test. Fighting a losing battle as most progressives on this forum(and possibly in their community) have opinion different from his.
Porus (Prof. Poo) - Does not believe any Imam exist in the line of Imam Tayyib. The concept of Imam coming out of seclusion is all false stories. Yet calls himself DB and hopes all progressive DBs would accept his theory and denounce the existence of any Imam in seclusion. Most popular thought so far in the progressive club and gaining wide acceptance with no progressive scholar countering his opinions on the forum openly and strongly. Not even Doctor or Insaf.
AZ- Whatever Porus says is correct since he does not know anything himself on the subject except abusive language and nonsensible rhetoric
Humsafar - Confused. Neither accepts nor denies the concept of Imamat. Wants to play safe thinking he would take the side when the time comes. But clearly supporting Porus' argument. Always ready to abuse the mainstream DBs irrespective of the subject of discussion.
GM - Wahhabi inclination. Confused on the subject of Imamat and whether Imam exist. Does not know anything but just looks for opportunity to abuse the mainstream DBs

Other progressives - Totally Confused. Dont know which line to take. Wondering what state of affairs their parents have landed them in. Fundamentals of faith are shaken, standing on crossroad where each direction looks more gloomy than the other. All that is required for these people is little courage and they would realise the true path. Just a little courage is all that is required on the part of these progressives who are right now feeling confused on the most basic tenets of DB faith like Imamat. Just walk up to the nearest Darul Imarat/Masjid of your town/city and express your desire to revert to the DB faith, without waiting for anyone else to join you, without asking anyone else's opinion, without taking anyones permission, without any fear or prejudice. Or else you would be left to the mercy of people like Porus, Humsafar, Anajmi and Doctor Mubarak.

[mustafanalwalla]

People, People, People!!!

We all know now how us traditional DB's would recognise the true Imam.

But i still do not have an answer to my question.

How would the reformists verify if the Imam is true?

Does he need to perform magic tricks? Will He be so wonderful innately that you need no further proof? Does He need to produce a hand-written letter from God?

I

[Muslim First]

Let me give you my version

there is no such thing as Imam or Imamat.

Imam is a figment of imagination for minority of Muslim sects. Each sect has their own lineage of Imams.
Imam is like Ram, Krishna, and just a tool for clergy to entrtrain stupid belivers and rip off stupidos in his name.

Prophet had no male child so there cannot be his male progeny.

For majority of Muslims Qur'an and Sunnah is Imam.

For DBs Maulana Burhanuddin and his Mansoos and his band of 40 chors are Imam.

Kya Alaa unki Shaan he.

Dbs "Parva ille, Kadam Chuuuuuu"

[Muslim First]

Other progressives - Totally Confused. Dont know which line to take. Wondering what state of affairs their parents have landed them in. Fundamentals of faith are shaken, standing on crossroad where each direction looks more gloomy than the other. All that is required for these people is little courage and they would realise the true path. Just a little courage is all that is required on the part of these progressives who are right now feeling confused on the most basic tenets of DB faith like Imamat. Just walk up to the nearest Darul Imarat/Masjid of your town/city and express your desire to revert to the DB faith, without waiting for anyone else to join you, without asking anyone else's opinion, without taking anyones permission, without any fear or prejudice. Or else you would be left to the mercy of people like Porus, Humsafar, Anajmi and Doctor Mubarak.

What are you smoking Progieee?

[Muslim First]

Imam is a leader of the people, and that's exactly what the Shias believe.

According to Adam
Imam is a leader of the people

Dawoodi Bohra are group of people

Maulana Burhanuddin and his Mansoos are leaders of DBs

Therefore Maulana Burhanuddin is Imam of DBs

Therefore Maulai Muffadal is Imam in waiting of DBs

QED

[Fateh]

People, People, People!!!

We all know now how us traditional DB's would recognise the true Imam.

But i still do not have an answer to my question.

How would the reformists verify if the Imam is true?

Does he need to perform magic tricks? Will He be so wonderful innately that you need no further proof? Does He need to produce a hand-written letter from God?
Salam Bhai,yes its now crystal clear that traditional DB's would recognise the true Imam & other sects what ever may be they are unclear.In this regard i have some question
As we all know our prophet had clearly announced Ali(a.s) was the maula after him in gadir e khum,but after death of prophet all ummah divided but Ali(a.s.) did not fight them who are against him but keep quite even though he was right why?please think over this.Islam is for all human kind in QURAN also ALLAH address o believer not said o muslims .so my point is nabi should be for all human kind,vasi also for all human kind & Imam should be for all all who believe in Islam.Then how its possible that coming Imam will only for one sect not for all muslim?May be possible i can not express what i want to say due to my poor English but i know all members of forum are quite more intelligent then me.
I

[SBM]

People, People, People!!!

We all know now how us traditional DB's would recognise the true Imam.

But i still do not have an answer to my question.

How would the reformists verify if the Imam is true?

Does he need to perform magic tricks? Will He be so wonderful innately that you need no further proof? Does He need to produce a hand-written letter from God?

I

Here how I am going to recognize Imam,
He is going to be carried on GOLDEN PALKHI (since his Dai is carried on Wooden Palkhi) Imam;s Palkhi will be carried by all the Previous Duaat and current Dai (since Dai's Palkhi is carried by his Zaadas and Chamchas) Since Imam's representative felicitates Murders like Modi and Thackrey
I think the Imam I will recognize would be felicitated by likes of Hilter. The Imam I would recognize will be carrying rifles and would have the heads of Tiger, Bear and other Wild animals (which were hunted by Imam) mounted on his Palkhi
DO YOU GET THE PICTURE NOW.... SINCE THE CURRENT DAI CAN ONLY RECONIZE THE IMAM AS PER YOUR OPINIONS SO I SUPPOSE THE CURRENT DAI CAN ONLY RECOGNIZE HIS BOSS WHO GAVE HIM ALL THESE SIGNS TO RECOGNIZE
LET ME HEAR ALL THE LANAATS AND ABUSE

on a serious note the Imam if he appears in my life time will be one who will follow the examples of Prophet Mohammed;s passion, Hazarat Ali;s
Shujaat (bravery) and Imam Hussain's devotion to save the Ummah. He will be a simple person who like Prophet Mohammed and his Ahlul Bayt
will work to support their families and will be distributing the all the Salaams and Najwa to needy, The Imam the true successor to Ahlul Bayt will shun the political corruption and would live among commoners, He will show the qualities of life of Prophet Mohammed and his progeny and follow Allah;s farman (Current Dai is not from Progeny of Ahlul Bayt since Raja Bharmal and Raja Tarmal became the Dai and thus ended the progeny)

[porus]

there is no such thing as Imam or Imamat.

Imam is a figment of imagination for minority of Muslim sects. Each sect has their own lineage of Imams.

Let us be clear. Whether you accept their authority or not, Imams and Imamat among the Shia is a historical fact and we do have at least one living Imam, the Aga Khan.

It is clear that 21 Imams of Bohras and 12 Imams of Ithna-asharis also existed and all 3 sects have a vibrant concept of Imamat based on their interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah.

My personal view is derived from scholarly research based on partisan and non-partisan records. I conclude that the 21st Imam of Bohras was done away with in his infancy and did not produce any heir. Of course, just as Abdul Majid claimed Imamat following assassination of Imam Aamir, someone could come forward and make similar claims.

As far as the Ithna-asharis are concerned, their belief that their 12th Imam is still alive after his seclusion is simply a myth. I believe that he was also murdered. And like Hurratul Malika, his followers concocted the myth of Imam's occultation. At least, Hurratul Malika, in her stance, followed the precedent of the occultation of pre-Fatimid Imams.

[Humsafar]

Abde boys, let me repeat:
We'll accept the Imam that Dai identifies. Do you have any difficuluty understanding this? It is simple English. Ok, let me repeat it:
WE'LL ACCEPT THE IMAM THAT THE DAI IDNETIFIES.
Do you get it? No? OK, how about this:
We ..................... will.................accept......................the..................Imam................that...............Dai...............idenitifies.
Hope you get that. If not, let me know I'll try my best to make it simpler, Ok?

[Muslim First]

Let us be clear. Whether you accept their authority or not, Imams and Imamat among the Shia is a historical fact and we do have at least one living Imam, the Aga Khan.

It is clear that 21 Imams of Bohras and 12 Imams of Ithna-asharis also existed and all 3 sects have a vibrant concept of Imamat based on their interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah.

My personal view is derived from scholarly research based on partisan and non-partisan records. I conclude that the 21st Imam of Bohras was done away with in his infancy and did not produce any heir. Of course, just as Abdul Majid claimed Imamat following assassination of Imam Aamir, someone could come forward and make similar claims.

As far as the Ithna-asharis are concerned, their belief that their 12th Imam is still alive after his seclusion is simply a myth. I believe that he was also murdered. And like Hurratul Malika, his followers concocted the myth of Imam's occultation. At least, Hurratul Malika, in her stance, followed the precedent of the occultation of pre-Fatimid Imams.

Nice post Br Porus
Now what does your reserch say about Imam Ismail's death before his father? Please elaborate.
JAK

[Adam]

@Progticide. BRAVO! Very well spelled out.
Again to all "The Opposition", there's nothing against your beleifs, its just to prove that there really aren't any Real Proggies on this forum, and if there are, they are just confused beings and cowards to speak up.

@Gulam:
I'm sorry to have put you in the same boat as the "so-called, kind of wanna be Progs", that was a copy paste mistake.
I wont call you a Prog anymore.
You say you're a Panjatani, and don't believe in any Imam after that, but then you go on to say:

Just as Prophet (s.a.w.) didnt need anyone to prove himself so also the Imam from his progeny will not need anyone. Lastly, if Allah (swt) loves me then He will give me hidaya to follow the one whom He ordains.

Does that mean you believe that there is an Imam and your waiting for him OR there isn't and you wont bother with anyone claiming to be an Imam? Please make up your mind.
(P.S Progticide, GM claims to be a Panjatani, maybe he doesn't have a Wahabi inclination. Well, that can only be confirmed if he speaks up)

Muslim Firsts comments can be ignored, sine he is a Wahabi and doesn't believe in Imamat (like the Progs), or doesn't even want to understand it (like Porus)

SBM - Again can't avoid giving childish comments, and "Seems" to be waiting for a certain Imam, but doesn't know how to verify him.

@Porus
If your quest is to sit and understand, then take what each side has to say. And don't intrude on their beliefs. Unfortunately for you, you only get to here the Abde side because the Real Progs have nothing intelligent to say

@Mustafa
Your original question was How do the Dawoodi Bohras verify. That has been answered, through the Dai.
How to the Proggies verify the True Imam? Answer still pending, I guess for two reasons:
1. There aren't any realy Proggies here (if there are, then show yourself)
2. They don't know the answer and are extremely confused! Which makes them wish they weren't Proggies in the first place, as Progticide most brilliantly put it "Totally Confused. Dont know which line to take. Wondering what state of affairs their parents have landed them in. Fundamentals of faith are shaken, standing on crossroad where each direction looks more gloomy than the other."

[porus]

Nice post Br Porus
Now what does your reserch say about Imam Ismail's death bedore his father? Please elaborate.
JAK

It is clear that Imam Ismail died during the life of Imam Jafar al-Sadiq, that is, before assuming the office of Imamat. However Imam Jafar had already pronounced nass on him.

Ismailies decided that since he was nominated, Ismail is to be considered the Imam, even in death. Fortunately, Imam Ismail had a son who assumed Imamat and the progeny/dynasty survived.

We will not go into controversy in which claims of Imam Ismail having pre-deceased his father, Imam Jafar, have been rejected.

[Humsafar]

Abde boys let me repeat, we don't need to verify anything. You may ask why. And our answer is, because...
WE'LL ACCEPT THE IMAM THE DAI IDNETIFIES.
Get it?

[porus]

Adam,

I think you are too hung up on the word 'proggies'. I suggest you lump all 'opposition' as you call them into a new label called 'non-abdes'.

Your beliefs are what has been drummed in to you by others. Similar beliefs were drummed into me but I decided to take charge of them and discard those that were counterproductive and adopt new ones that were more productive. I alone am responsible for my beliefs. You are not responsible for your beliefs. That is clear. All you can do is state them and refer to books, but fail to make an attempt to apply reason to them. That is why you are dodging penetrating questions I have raised.

[Adam]

Abde boys let me repeat, we don't need to verify anything. You may ask why. And our answer is, because...
WE'LL ACCEPT THE IMAM THE DAI IDNETIFIES.
Get it?

No, I don't get it.

PORUS
I agree, mostly everyone is NOT a Proggy (there are none), so this whole forum is a false claim.

[Humsafar]

Abde boys let me repeat, we don't need to verify anything. You may ask why. And our answer is, because...
WE'LL ACCEPT THE IMAM THE DAI IDNETIFIES.
Get it?

No, I don't get it.

No? I thought you were smart. Ok, let's try this.
Dai: This is your new Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
Dai: Do you accept his as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.
There you go. Now, do you get it?

[Al Zulfiqar]

How would .... verify if the Imam is true?

Does he need to perform magic tricks?

nalwala, that would be the ultimate test of the imam's veracity for you, used as you are to receiving miracles from a lowly dai!

now imagine, if a lowly and sinner dai can perform such miracles, (saving yr stuffed and wrinkled behind), then what sort of miracles a true imam can perform for you!!

i suggest that you start developing the strongest possible urges for the imam, (intensity @ tsunami scale please) and not only will he re-appear, but will do magic tricks and mojizas for you never hitherto seen in the history of abde bohra regressives!!

[ghulam muhammed]

I agree, mostly everyone is NOT a Proggy (there are none), so this whole forum is a false claim.

1. There aren't any realy Proggies here (if there are, then show yourself)

We should thank Adam for discovering this truth as he has proved that this site is dominated by insiders who are unable to express their anger and disbelief in the dai and his system of governance in regressive circles hence they chose this medium to vent out their frustrations. This site has been proved to be the most visited amongst all bohra sites even by google (this was established in another thread). Hence the progressive's claim that there is lot of unrest in present day bohraism has been proved by none other then the diehard abdes. "Ghar ka bhedi lanka dhaaye", the volcano may erupt anytime !!!