The True Imam - How would you verify?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Hanif
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#601

Unread post by Hanif » Thu May 10, 2012 3:43 pm

Due to Syedna's age and health just like Aytullah Khomeini have become the pawn in the hands of his corrupt children
In other words, Syedna has no say? How can this be possible? He is an infallible Dai al-Muthlaq, how can anybody take advantage of his age? All he has to do is wave his hand and his children would become very obedient. Then he can order them to stop the corruption. He could have done that from day one of corruption. In Sri Lanka, in Africa, in Saudi Arabia, why did not Imam whisper in his ear and tell him he and his family would be caught red handed and he would be humiliated!

Let us not make excuses.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#602

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu May 10, 2012 7:30 pm

SBM wrote:Due to Syedna's age and health just like Aytullah Khomeini have become the pawn in the hands of his corrupt children
It is like asking people to condone an aged and reformed Dawood Ibrahim. In his old age can people condone his past heinous acts just because in the present scenario he is a helpless creature who has no say in the present day affairs ? After all, the present mess is the result of his past deeds. Also, can the same rule be applied in case of an Imam. The answer will be a certain NO because an Imam is supposed to be infallible which the present day bohraism has extended upto the dai. Hence due to his self proclaimed claim of being infallible nothing can go wrong in dawat as he is supposed to be very much in charge of all its affairs.

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#603

Unread post by truebohra » Fri May 11, 2012 1:58 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
SBM wrote:Due to Syedna's age and health just like Aytullah Khomeini have become the pawn in the hands of his corrupt children
It is like asking people to condone an aged and reformed Dawood Ibrahim. In his old age can people condone his past heinous acts just because in the present scenario he is a helpless creature who has no say in the present day affairs ? After all, the present mess is the result of his past deeds. Also, can the same rule be applied in case of an Imam. The answer will be a certain NO because an Imam is supposed to be infallible which the present day bohraism has extended upto the dai. Hence due to his self proclaimed claim of being infallible nothing can go wrong in dawat as he is supposed to be very much in charge of all its affairs.
bro GM, I object your view strongly. Please dont compare Dai with Dawood Ibrahim. Progressives please refrain from personal attack on Dai.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#604

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
porus wrote:My absolutely dazzling Syrian friend, AK, found himself having some time to spare from his death-defying attempts to overthrow Bashir al-Asad.

So the first thing he did was to give me good/bad news that he had met the Imam. He is hiding in the city of al-Qurratayn and is completely dejected. This was the conversation between my friend and the Imam:

AK: Why so glum?

Imam: I am the greatest person on this earth. I speak all the languages of the earth including the extinct and yet to be developed ones. I have wrested everything from Allah because he gave me everything He had without leaving anything for Himself. He is so generous and yet He is now poor and powerless.

AK: You should be glad. You have the power of universe at your fingertips.

Imam; That is what makes me depressed. Allah told me and everyone else that He has vested everything, power, knowledge and all, in me. Now I find Allah was lying.

AK: Why do you say that?

Imam: I have just discovered that there is someone even more powerful than me.

AK: Who could that be, for your sake?

Imam: It is the Dai of Dawoodi Bohras.

AK: You don't say!

Imam: That is the truth. First I have to obtain his raza to declare myself. If he does not verify me, then I am useless.

AK: So, what do you think you can do that he cannot?

Imam: Nothing. I need the support of his followers to do one thing that they have wanted me to do.

AK: What is that?

Imam: I have to destroy the tombs of Abu Bakr and Umar, exhume their remains, burn them and purify Masjid-e-Nabawi.

AK: I thought the Dai was your deputy. Can't you delegate this task to him?

Imam: (crying) Oh, ho ho! I have to prostrate to him and seek his raza. I can't bear this humiliation. I am just going to stay hidden.

AK: Good for you. Here you are among friends.
i used to admire you and respect you for your knowledge, but by this stupid "joke", you've just lost it all
Jaagte Raho
goes somthing like this
o koi me Jooth boliya?
Koina, Koina

progticide
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#605

Unread post by progticide » Fri May 11, 2012 7:25 am

Admin,
Has this thread become the most popular in the history of this forum?

Can you post the list of Top 10 most popular topics on this forum with respect to:
1. No. of replies
2. No.of views
3. No.of ratings
4. Member who started the topic


This posting from me is not discreet or random. I'll share the reason for asking this statistic after Admin provides the details.

Adam
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#606

Unread post by Adam » Fri May 11, 2012 8:17 am

Currently, only DBs and Progs have belief in the Imam in Satr.
DBs have said = Dai will verify
Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

Shall we close this chapter now?

abde53
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#607

Unread post by abde53 » Fri May 11, 2012 8:18 am

progticide bhai
even i do not agree wtih HB and SBM but they posted some questions for you and Adam bhai, after reading i also believe in some of them not all.
i also know and have seen some of the Aamils and people in the committee act rudely with people in jamaat, i have seen myself how badly poor mumineen gets treated when they go to Badri Mahal with their Araz but some of the people who did not have enough salaams for people working in the office.
from your post i feel like you and Adam bhai are either Jamiya or Aaamil some where.
i want to know if you think what bohraji wrote about poverty in ahmedabad is true and why aamil from that area is not helping them,. I want to donate to help them but want to make sure it is true because i am not rich and if give here then i will have to cut my wajebaats or najwa. i am confused please tell me what to do you can send me a pm if you do not want to answer in public.

SBM
Posts: 6508
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#608

Unread post by SBM » Fri May 11, 2012 8:24 am

Adam wrote:Currently, only DBs and Progs have belief in the Imam in Satr.
DBs have said = Dai will verify
Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.

Shall we close this chapter now?
Adam--May be you are appointed by Kothari Goons to speak and defend but I do not recall ever where Stranger saying he represent Progressive on the contrary he is very clear that he is in Ortho fold but have questions about the issues which you and your co hort Progticide have conveniently avoided
YOU HAVE LEARNED VERY WELL FROM YOUR MASTERS IN KOTHAR HOW TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE WHICH YOU ARE DOING HERE BE EQUATING STRANGER WITH PROGRESSIVE.
AGAIN SINCE YOU ARE AWAKE CAN YOU ANSWER QUESTIONS POSTED BY HB REPEATEDLY


fearAllah
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#609

Unread post by fearAllah » Fri May 11, 2012 8:54 am

Adam wrote:
Shall we close this chapter now?
Hmmmm.....Okay if you insist so! :)

So summarizing this thread:

How will you verify the Imam?

Burhani Bohras = Dai is the Imam.......(Confused, confused....!)

Dawoodi Bohras = Imam will punish/execute the Dai


Chapter closed!

Adam
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#610

Unread post by Adam » Fri May 11, 2012 9:26 am

Adam--May be you are appointed by Kothari Goons to speak and defend but I do not recall ever where Stranger saying he represent Progressive on the contrary he is very clear that he is in Ortho fold but have questions about the issues which you and your co hort Progticide have conveniently avoided

Oh okay. Then if Stranger is not a Proggy, then we're back to square one!
Because the Proggies haven't answered yet!
Its been 22 threads and NOT ONE PROGGY has been able to answer such a simple question.
So...... what is it Proggies?
(Humsafar isn't a Proggy, he doesn't belief in DB beliefs at all.)

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#611

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri May 11, 2012 9:52 am

Adam wrote:Currently, only DBs and Progs have belief in the Imam in Satr.
DBs have said = Dai will verify
Progs = Stranger says he doesn't know.
Shall we close this chapter now?
These Burhani abdes are really confused. Despite all the guidance from the divine and infallible Dai they cannot decide whether to close this chapter or not. Each time they close it, they open it again. Looks like they are going nuts with all this dai-worshipping. I suggest that they relax their devotion for a while.

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#612

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri May 11, 2012 9:56 am

Adam wrote:
(Humsafar isn't a Proggy, he doesn't belief in DB beliefs at all.)
Adam, can I get an official certificate from your office of the Grand Inquisitor (thanks porus for that, this title fits them to a T) that I'm not a proggy. I would like to frame it and display it in my study, and only hope the wall is competent enough to hold it. :)

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#613

Unread post by anajmi » Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 am

How will you verify the Imam?
Abde Idiot Dawoodi Bohras = Dai will verify the Imam
Smart Dawoodi Bohras = Imam will punish/execute the Dai (quoting fearAllah, an ejamaat card carrying Dawoodi Bohra)

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#614

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri May 11, 2012 10:00 am

progticide wrote:Admin,
Has this thread become the most popular in the history of this forum?

Can you post the list of Top 10 most popular topics on this forum with respect to:
1. No. of replies
2. No.of views
3. No.of ratings
4. Member who started the topic


This posting from me is not discreet or random. I'll share the reason for asking this statistic after Admin provides the details.
Please provide these statistics to pesticide so that he can give it to the Dai and he will crunch the numbers and through his divine alchemy.... adacadabra.... lo and behold ...... drum rolll.....reveal the Imam. Finally.
So now we know how the Imam will be verified. Shall we close this chapter now? Adam what do you say. Confused confused!!!

SBM
Posts: 6508
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#615

Unread post by SBM » Fri May 11, 2012 10:02 am

adam
AGAIN SINCE YOU ARE AWAKE CAN YOU ANSWER QUESTIONS POSTED BY HB REPEATEDLY
[
/b]

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#616

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri May 11, 2012 5:55 pm

Adam wrote:Its been 22 threads and NOT ONE PROGGY has been able to answer such a simple question.
So...... what is it Proggies?
Its been 22 threads and still Adam hasnt been able to figure out the answer although the same are crystal clear. Adam will never be satisfied unless the answers doesnt suit his abde logic and that "Intelligent" logic is that Allah (swt) has officiated only ONE person on this entire globe out of billions of humanbeings and that is none other then the grand leader of a miniscule sect which is not even 1% of the entire Islamic Ummah, forget the whole world. Now how this statement can convince ANY logical person is anyones guess.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#617

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue May 15, 2012 7:23 pm

truebohra wrote:bro GM, I object your view strongly. Please dont compare Dai with Dawood Ibrahim
Bro truebohra,

I respect your sentiments but please tell me as to whom should I compare the dai with if I have to draw an analogy ? When we compare him with Imam Hussain (a.s.) in the case of he getting cozy with the butcher of muslims Modi then abdes say "He followed the example of Imam Hasan (a.s.) who had a pact with the tyrant muawiya" hence dont compare him with Imam Hussain (a.s.).
When we compare the dai's extravagent lifestyle with that of the austere life led by Mola Ali (a.s.) the abdes say "He followed the example of previous fatimid Imams" hence dont compare him with Mola Ali (a.s.).

Aakhir kare to kya kare ? The only alternative left is then to compare him with his friends Modi, Advani and Thackerey !!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#618

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed May 16, 2012 3:59 pm

Iranian rapper faces death threats and fatwa for 'blasphemous' song

15 May 2012

Shahin Najafi accused of denigrating imams as clerics call him an 'apostate' and religious website puts bounty on his head

An Iranian rapper has become "the Salman Rushdie of music" after clerics in the Islamic republic issued fatwas calling him an apostate, which is considered punishable by death under the country's sharia law.

Shahin Najafi, a Germany-based Iranian singer, recently released a song with references to Ali al-Hadi al-Naqi, the tenth of the 12 Shia Muslim Imams, a religious figure highly respected by millions in Iran.

The controversial clip posted on Youtube, watched by hundreds of thousands online, has divided opinions in the country with many finding it offensive and insulting to their beliefs and others defending the song, saying it broke taboos especially in regards to expressing views about religious personalities.

When asked for a religious ruling on the fate of Najafi and his "blasphemous music", clerics unanimously declared that such a person must be considered an apostate.

According to the semi-official Mehr news agency, Ayatollah Naser Makareme Shirazi, a pro-Iranian regime cleric based in the holy city of Qom with a great deal of influence among Muslims in the country, was the latest person to issue a fatwa in regards to Najafi.

"Any outrage against the infallible imams ... and obvious insult against them would make a Muslim an apostate," he said. Makareme Shirazi has in the past issued other controversial rulings, including those against women attending football matches, keeping pets and the Holocaust.

Najafi's song, called Naqi, is a chronology of events in the past year. Najafi, 31, has rejected claims that he meant to insult people's religious beliefs, though the song criticises Iranian society.

"I thought there would be some ramifications. But I didn't think I would upset the regime that much. Now they are taking advantage of the situation and making it look like I was trying to criticise religion and put down believers," he told the Germany broadcaster Deutsche Welle.

"For me it is more of an excuse to talk about completely different things. I also criticise Iranian society in the song. It seems as though people are just concentrating on the word 'imam'."

Meanwhile, an Iranian religion website which runs on the regime-controlled .ir domain, Shia-Online.ir, has offered a $100,000 (£62,000) reward for anyone who kills Najafi.

"A (website) founder who lives in one of the Gulf Arab states has promised to pay the ($100,000) bounty on behalf of Shia-Online.ir to the killer of this abusive singer," the site said.

The fury surrounding Najafi and his work is reminiscent of the fatwa against Salman Rushdie whose novel, The Satanic Verses, brought him a death sentence by the founder of the Islamic republic, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma ... sfeed=true

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#619

Unread post by porus » Wed May 16, 2012 4:26 pm

mustafanalwalla wrote:i used to admire you and respect you for your knowledge, but by this stupid "joke", you've just lost it all
Brother GM,

I thought of commenting on this item here when I first read about Shaheen Najafi yesterday in New York Times. I decided against it because Pesticide would have rushed in to chide me again for not sticking to the subject. He would say, "Naqi was not a True Imam and since he is dead, there is no need to verify him anyway, even in death!" :)

However, if Shaheen Najafi had read mustafanalwalla's comment on what I reported of the conversation between the True Imam and my pulchritudinous Syrian friend AK, he would have been forewarned. To lose respect of one person whose regard is sought by all the high and mighty of the land, namely mustafanalwalla, is a blow from which no one can ever recover.

The only recourse open to Shaheen Najafi is to approach the Naa'ib of True Imam in Mumbai so that his safety can be guaranteed.
Last edited by porus on Wed May 16, 2012 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#620

Unread post by anajmi » Wed May 16, 2012 4:38 pm

Do you know what the rapper said about this Imam?

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#621

Unread post by porus » Wed May 16, 2012 5:17 pm

anajmi wrote:Do you know what the rapper said about this Imam?
In his song, Mr. Najafi asks for Imam Naghi to return instead of the 12th imam, the Shiite messiah. He cynically raps that Iranians are ready to sacrifice themselves with the imam’s help to solve problems like “shallow slogans” and “Chinese-made prayer rugs.” The song is laden with rough street language.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/world ... .html?_r=1

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#622

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu May 17, 2012 11:51 am

Porus, I've a strong suspicion that the True Imam might be consorting with your pulchritudinous Syrian friend. Just saying.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#623

Unread post by porus » Thu May 17, 2012 10:06 pm

Humsafar wrote:Porus, I've a strong suspicion that the True Imam might be consorting with your pulchritudinous Syrian friend. Just saying.
:lol:

Seriously though, Humsafar, Imam was wondering if he could learn from history and assign the role that Imam al-Mahdi assigned to Dai Ali Abdallah al-Shi to my absolutely handsome Syrian friend, AK.

As you know, AK has been eyeing the Leadership slot in Bashar al-Asad's Opposition, the current leader having just offered to resign.

Imam thinks that since Damascus is within sights of AK and his Opposition forces , he could use his friendship with him to establish Tayyibi Caliphate there. AK would be in a good position to help as a hero of liberation. Together with AK, Imam thinks that he would form a powerful alliance to counterbalance the Dai's clout in Mumbai and the world.

What better outcome can be imagined than the Tayyibi Caliphate enthroned in Damascus, the very center of the erstwhile Ummayad Calip[hate, the enemies of Imam's forebears, the pre-Fatimids.

We will finally have the pomp and circumstance that will outshine anything the Dai in Mumbai can muster and will certainly put the fabled Umayyads into permanent shadow! :)

Humsafar
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#624

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri May 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Aha! So your Syrian friend is not only pulchritudinous but also obliquitous and artful. Memories from my previous life as courtier in the medieval Fatimid era come rushing back to me. All this scheming and conniving and high drama are just the cup of tea our Imams used to enjoy. Now this new kid on the block is following that hoary tradition. Tayyebi Caliphate in Damascus, wow! who could have thought of that. I tip my topi to Imam's strategic brilliance, but I have to say that my loyalties remain with our Sultan of Mumbai of Zaini Dyansty. Unless our leader verifies the Imam all Imams are haram on me. So your Imam may connive with your friend all he wants, he cannot have my support or the support of all Burahni abdes. We are with our Leader - and I've pledged everything to him (except my wife).

fearAllah
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#625

Unread post by fearAllah » Wed May 23, 2012 7:18 am

Please see miracle below which was forwarded to me today

"Aqa Maula TUS ye Syedi wa Moulai Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin Saheb TUS par 4th Rajab 1432H ye Nas farmavi.

Formula (04/07/1432H):
(4+7+1+4+3+2) = 21
@(4x7)+(1)+(4x3x2) = 53

"Ye dalalat kare che k Imam uz Zaman na Dai ye Imamuz Zaman na ilham si Nas farmavi See the nirali shaan!
Even da date the Nas was conferred says dat Da'iz Zaman TUS got d ilham from Imam uz Zaman (21) to appoint his mansoos (53). SUBHANALLAH!


I was so "confused confused confused" before but now after looking at the above miracle i must admit i was sooooooo wrong :oops:

I am going to pray two rakaats "Burhanuddin pooja" namaz tonight to beg forgiveness for my sins, I hope the demiGod forgives me :cry:

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#626

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed May 23, 2012 4:52 pm

Shahin Najafi is an Iranian rapper who has lived in Germany since 2005. His songs are known to be critical of socio-political developments in his home country. His latest song, "Naghi", which was named after the tenth imam in Shia Islam, has caused a stir in Iran. The lyrics call on him in a sarcastic and almost obscene way to come back to life and end the catastrophic status quo in Iran.

Shahin Najafi: No. For me it is more of an excuse to talk about completely different things. I criticise Iranian society in the song. It seems as though people are just concentrating on the word "imam".

One of my earlier songs was about the twelfth Shia imam who is supposed to come back and redeem the world. So my new song is, in a way, a continuation of the other one; the narrator is disappointed in the twelfth imam so he asks the tenth imam to save society. But as I say, the story with Naghi was just a pretext.

http://www.newageislam.com/interview/sh ... k--/d/7389

Muslim
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#627

Unread post by Muslim » Fri May 25, 2012 7:13 pm

Haven't read all posts on this topic other than the first one as there are too many and I presume few that are relevant, but thought I'd share my view very briefly, for those of you who wish to believe an imam is out there.

Recognising the rightful imam has been at the heart of Shia mystique for over a thousand years. How did anyone recognise the Prophet during his early years? Was it because someone introduced him and told everyone thats the way it was going to be? Or was it because he brought a message of truth, justice and hope that appealed to the sensibilities of people privleged and underprivileged alike?

How does one reasonable human recognise the Quran as God's work and come to accept it? Is it because someone forces him or her (well, ok, that happens too), or is it because they see truth in what is written and the logic and arguments appeals to them and they choose to follow it?

Here's a radical idea - you will recognise the imam the same way.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#628

Unread post by profastian » Sat May 26, 2012 2:21 am

deleted

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#629

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat May 26, 2012 2:26 am

:D :D :D

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#630

Unread post by Conscíous » Sun May 27, 2012 6:06 pm

Haha :mrgreen: