What is purpose of life ?

[huzaif]

Let's see what you'll think.
Can all of you tell me according to your own values and beliefs what is the purpose of this life ?

[asif]

Following is my value system
1)Lead an honest life .Don't dupe any body in the name of God ,religion. (Very unlike the brokers (pimps) of God like ur Syedna ,or other religious leaders).
2)Believe in the quality of money. How is it earned should be important!(Unlike the parasites of Dawat, the blood sucking aamils, shezadas,Syedna & the rest of tom ,dick & harry who have made Allah as the means of livelihood. )

3)Believe in Scientific Analysis. God is the invention of mankind.Religion is opium for the people. I hate religious extremism & sense of superiority in one's own religion. Firmly believe that this world would have been much better place without " GOD " and his religion. ( Otherwise U believers explain why a female who was pregnanat was first raped ,then her stomach torn open ,foetus removed during Gujarat riots.!!! Why the fuck she died such a violent death!!!!
What was eunuch in which Hindus believe , Eunuch in which muslims believe ,was doing?? The believers are ridiculus .They first hypothesize a thing & then they start believing it .Where is the experimentation ,the verification ? Is it worth believing in GOD & Religion when it has caused so much harm to community?)
I argued once with MuslimFirst abt the religion. He said that evrything is Quaran is authentic & genuine. Tell me are'nt there many things in quaran which go against scientific reasoning?Muslim First conveniently said nothing has been disproved concretely . Huzaifa in his recent post mentioned abt teh miracle performed by rasullullah in which he split the moon. IS IT POSSIBLE?Quaran mentions abt angels etc. MuslimFirst show me one angel !!!!! IS'NT IT A JOKE? IF RELIGIOUS BOOKS LIKE GEETA & QUARAN ARE MENTIONING ALL SORTS OF RIDICULUS THINGS THEN DUSTBIN IS THE PLACE FOR IT.

4) Firmly believe that nature has given us the power to think.Think logically . Unravel the secrets of nature.Religion tends to inhibit it.

The life got created bcoz human beings have to evolve. Each evolution (not a single but in overall terms) will improve the brain of human being. They will invent , discover new things. Some will work for teh betterment of society.Others will be destructive. Eventually it will be the socio economic conditions, the environmental factors that will decide the purpose of individual's life.
Looking at the situation / fanaticism of third world , it will continue to live in misery & feel frustrated.Like Huzaif keeps barking & cursing evry now & then

[asif]

Just a correction in the Post above. I had a discussion with Khairan & not MuslimFirst .

[porus]

belief=an idea or proposition held to be true. It may be a result of experience or inculcation (brainwashing). Relatively easy to demonstrate its validity and get agreement on.

faith= an idea held to be true despite evidence to the contrary. It may be a result fo personal experience or inculcation (brainwashing). Ver difficult to demonstrate its validity and difficult to agree upon

value= an idea or thing which brings pleasure and avoids pain. Humans generally move towards their values or away from that which is not a value. Value includes belief aand faith

Purpose of life= Examinnation of beliefs, faith and value to discover true self.

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Br Porus: That's nicely put! By the way are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist? You seem to analyse the human emotions & define it well!

[Khairan]

> Believe in Scientific Analysis.

asif,

YES.

Critical thinking is important, and doubt is an important aspect of faith. But you keep clinging to the banner of "science" in justifying your atheism.

I maintain: your atheism is just as much a religion as my Islam is. Can you prove that God does not exist? No. You can simply postualate as to reasons regarding why he does not, in the same way that I postulate why he does. Both stances require a measure of faith in the inherently unprovable. However, in religion faith is an asset and not a drawback, because it still gives us free will, the right to choose our actions and beliefs.

I understand atheism as a standpoint, and I support your right to have it. But you have absolutely no claim to objectivity; in matters concerning religion, all viewpoints are unequivocally subjective.

[Believer]

First we must define "purpose". A Dictionary definition is "something set up as an object or end to be attained".

Therefore, purpose of life is to find the real truth, "sincerity in action, character, and utterance".

[nausicaa]

In short, I believe in actions and thoughts that promote life, growth, construction, and joy in this world. This also includes opposing actions and thoughts that lead to decay, death, destruction and pain. I don't remember who said this but its relevant here, "I believe in life before death, not life after death".

-N

[anajmi]

nausicaa,

Whoever said this couldn't have been more than 9 years old. Even an idiot, who is alive, believes in life before death.

[nausicaa]

I was referring to 'life' as more than just existing. A lot of people merely exist here without independent thought assuming that life on earth is just a test before an eternal 'afterlife' and they spend massive amounts of time trying to propitiate invisible deities when they could be doing other more enjoyable things.

-N

[anajmi]

And what makes you think that they are not enjoying what they are doing? Drinking and sex before marriage may not be as enjoyable for some.

[anajmi]

Remember, 70% of the people on earth do not get 2 square meals a day. The only thing that keeps most of them going is the belief in a better life after death.

[Khairan]

Ali ibn Abi Talib had a beautiful saying, which I unfortunately am unable to quote but will try to convey the essence of.

Basically, it went like this:

Regarding this world, live your life as if you were to live forever. Regarding the next, live every day as if it were your last.

[nausicaa]

Anajmi,

I am not saying that people have to find whatever I find as enjoyable, I am just saying they should be able to do what they personally enjoy, of course as long as they don't encroach on other people's happiness. What makes me think they are not enjoying? Well, doing things like beating themselves till they bleed doesn't sound very joyful to me, and if it is, more power to them.

-N

[Humsafar]

In the cosmic scheme of things, planet Earth is a mere blip - a tiny planet in one of the thousands of solar systems. That the Creator, the Absolute One (or whatever you call it) who has created this infinite universe should actually care about life on a pimple of a planet is a delusion.

Life on earth is a cosmic accident - a fortuitous thing which happned without any rhyme or reason. Human life on earth has no more significance or purpose than those of plants or animals. But of course Humans cannot accept this. We are highly evolved apes with the power to think, reason, imagine and have the unique ability to blush.

We cannot accept that our lives should have no purpose or meaning just like our unfortunate and "unevolved" cousins - the apes.

Our fear of the unknown and our sense of superiority over other forms of life, have led us to spin this intricate web of theology and religion to give ourselves an illusion of higher purpose. We have created God after our own image, made him a receptacle of all our fears and guilt and turned him into a despot of our inner universe.

Ironically, inspite of God, humans have brought the natural world to the brink of ruin with their greed and scientific arrogance and religious hubris. Given all our power of reason and intellect, we are still morally and instinctually imbeciles.

But all that the humans do is not bad. We also have the capacity for love, to create beauty - as in the arts and music - to endure, struggle and surmount the odds.

Now since we are born and have to spend our tenure here, we do have a purpose in this limited context of life on earth. If human intellect and superiority is of any consequence, then the chief task before us is to live in peace amongst ourselves and with other living beings with whom we share the planet. But all we have done so far is just the opposite. We have visited unspeakable violence not only on our own kind but on the rest of the planet as well.

The key to understanding our purpose is to understand that we are part of Nature, intimately bound to its laws and its whims. Humans will live as long as earth is able to live and breathe with us. Destruction of the earth – which we are relentlessly working towards - will mean the end of all life – with all the elaborate doctrines of heaven and hell flushed down the cosmic tube. And there will no God at the other end.

Peace is the key and the way to achieve is to make universal principles of love, justice and equality core values of human conduct. Beyond this there is no hope. The search for inner self or the quest for individual salvation has no meaning when the world around us falling to pieces.

To conclude, human life may have a purpose but I’m not really sure about its meaning.

[barwani]

Isn't the purpose of life to live and just let others live?

[huzaif]

asif,

You are a worthless person if you say that God does not exist.
You are denying your Creator.
It is indeed a great sin.
Do not think that the your extended freedom in this life means that you have control over your life.
I swear by Allah that when death comes to you, you will tremble with the greatest intensity.
I urge you to rethink your position.
And lastly, I curse you for your expletives against the Dai.
May you be shown the right path and adopt it quickly or else thrown into Sijjin very quickly.

[jinx]

Purpose of life for an average Dawoodi Bohras is Dukan(shop), topi,dadhi & sayo/rida (hat, beard and white clothing), jamat going, paying Sayednas Taxes and stay away from anything that threatens Dai Supremacy or khotars grip on the community.

[asif]

Khairan ,
You posted following
"
--------------------------------------------------I maintain: your atheism is just as much a religion as my Islam is. Can you prove that God does not exist? No. You can simply postualate as to reasons regarding why he does not, in the same way that I postulate why he does. Both stances require a measure of faith in the inherently unprovable. However, in religion faith is an asset and not a drawback, because it still gives us free will, the right to choose our actions and beliefs.
I understand atheism as a standpoint, and I support your right to have it. But you have absolutely no claim to objectivity; in matters concerning religion, all viewpoints are unequivocally subjective. "

My reply,
Thing is that just bcoz a person starts hallucinating or believing things ,it does not make it true. Say I start saying that I am meeting Imam Tayyab evry day and talking to him daily . It is my faith / belief. Will youy accept it ? You can never disprove it ,right? But than does my faith has any meaning ? You have to simply ignore it, You will definitely think I am gone nuts.
You have said a very similar thing. You are asking me to disprove God. Man ,You are just playing with words. Your argument makes no sense.
It needs to be discarded without a thought.
I cannot disprove a thing which does not exist.There is no evidence to it.
BUT REPLY TO THIS.
YOU SAID IN PREVIOUS THREAD THAT EVRYTHING IN QUARAN IS AUTHENTIC AND HAS NOT BEEN DISPROVED AT ALL! ARE YOU STILL SUPPORTING THIS ARGUMENT.? YOU ALSO AGREED THAT EVEN IF ONE SINGLE STATEMENT IN QUARAN IS FALSE ANYTHING IN IT CAN BE CHALLENGED!!
Don't you think you have bitten more than you can chew? I believe that Quaran talks abt Jinns ,Farishtas etc.!!!Don't tell me that you expect somebody to go & disprove all these fictitious things. Your logic is really absurd.

And pray makes you things there is God?Just bcoz currently science has no explanation to some questions ,you will invoke GOD for it? Tomorrow if that is answered you will hide behind soem more of such questions.
How long will you guys run away from the truth?

[Khairan]

asif,

> I cannot disprove a thing which does not exist.

Note the circular, a priori logic. If you cannot prove it, on what basis do you know? You've decided the outcome before applying the test. How is this scientific?

I don't think you understand the nature of my objection to your stance, so I'll try to restate it more clearly.

As I said, I understand at least to an extent how one comes by atheism. However, you are claiming that your viewpoint is more scientific than mine.

Let's for the moment disregard the fact that we disagree with each other on the existence of God and examine this "scientific" standpoint of yours.

Modern scientific theory requires that for an hypothesis to have any scientific validity whatsoever, it must be falsifiable. This means that there must be a way to test the theory, an experiment which can be done to show that it is wrong. If that experiment fails, then there is evidence that the theory may be correct. What I have just stated is an incontestable fact regarding modern science -- so if you want to be in line with scientific thinking you MUST adhere to this principle.

Now: the upshot of the rule of falsifiablity is that it is impossible to prove a negative. Thus, one can claim that sufficient evidence is lacking to believe in God (agnostic view), but one cannot claim that there is NO God (atheistic view). The latter view has no falsifiability, and thus no scientific credibility. Any physicist will note that the Theory of Gravity is not a Law for exactly this reason: no one can undeniably prove that the next time an apple gets tossed in the air, it will in fact fall to the earth, and science to date can conceive of no way TO prove it.

This is not my opinion, it is a plain fact. Therefore your notion that you are somehow objective in your atheism is patently false.

In another thread, nausicaa said: "I can find holes in the descriptions offered by various religions and all that does is tell me that a particular concept of God is wrong, not that there is no God."
(hope you don't mind my quoting you here!)

YES. That is all that anyone who is not satisfied with any extant conception of the Godhead can do.

Do I think my view is scientific? Absolutely not. I believe it because I see ample evidence supporting the existence of God, but that is another diatribe altogether.

And yes, I do stand behind my statement that I accept the Qur'an wholesale. The same lack of scientific rigor characterizes your objections to jinn and angels as does your objection to God.

So once again, how is your faith any different from mine?

salaam

[Muddai]

Anajmi,

"sex before marriage may not be as enjoyable for some"

..andsex with 10 year olds is not enjoyable to anyone but pedophiles such as yourself(?), and it is illegal.

You point is ?

[nausicaa]

Khairan,

Since you quoted me I'll butt in here though I promised myself I won't do that. And no I don't mind you quoting me.

The claim that there is no God is easily falsifiable, just show the existence of a God. Secondly, even if you do think that there is a God, it is a big stretch to come to a conclusion that God gives a damn about this world. Let's take what happened in Gujarat not so long ago,

A) either your God was powerless to prevent that, which falls way short of the all-powerful being that is posited as God
B) he was powerful enough to prevent it but he chose not to, which in any decent society would make him guilty of criminally negligent homicide.
C) he doesn't give a fuck.

Now of course, what religious people will sometimes say is he is testing the faith of the believers. I find this rather unconscionable that he would test the faith of newborn babies by pitting them against mobs of people armed with sticks, swords, and incendiary stuff. I mean, if he was even mildly competent he would attempt to create a somewhat balanced scenario.

-N

[anajmi]

Muddai,

What if I were to say that I cannot respond to faggots like you? Do you become one? I guess not, but if you are, then I cannot respond to you.

Do I make a point, may be, did YOU make a point? faggots normally don't.

[anajmi]

nausicaa,

You have a huge flaw in your argument. Remember God says that life on earth is a test for you, if you pass to go to heaven, if you fail you go to hell. What is the point in giving out the answers for everyone to pass and then rewarding them with heaven? So yeah babies were killed by monsters, so I argue that these babies did not have to go through any test but have been given a passage to heaven without hurdles, the monsters that killed them will be going to hell, however if God had prevented the killing of the babies, the monsters would've been able to argue that they wouldn't have killed them in the first place so why send them to hell even though they weren't able to kill the babies?

Life after death is more important for most than the life before death.

[jinx]

I think I agree with Anajmi.

If babies are killed by monsters..Why bring God in the equation. God let the world run by itself according to the law of nature with/without minimum supervision.

All the good things come from god and the bad things comes from this world.

[asif]

Jinx,
Why bring God at all into picture ? He is not at all needed . All the Good things & bad things emerge from this world only.
This funda of Life after Death & heaven /hell hypothesis is mere consolation .
Anajmi,
The way you are trivialising the horrible deaths of babies ,that they have passed the Test & gone to heaven !!Your God forbid, what if it were your loved ones?!!!!Would you like ur babies to go thru this type of passing of test for heaven?
I am of the opinion that it is this type of barbarism , savagery which should prompt individuals to do a rethinking on religious beliefs,their need for God.I am amazed at the ease with which junta dismisses these cruelties.This is nothing but escapism on the part of thiests. Whenever a slightest aspersion is cast on their beleifs ,they start squirming ,giving all sorts of childish arguments to defend their indefensible

[nausicaa]

Jinx,

"All the good things come from god and the bad things comes from this world."

That is a classic unfalsifiable statement. I could as well say all good comes from the assholes of invisible pink fairies and it would make no difference.

-N

[nausicaa]

Asif,

I think a lot of religious belief has to do with making the brain hurt less. "We", and science, cannot answer all questions at present, and this troubles "us". So "we" create an all-powerful, omniscient entity that has all the answers and convince "ourselves" that after death we will be happily living with this wonderful entity and have all the answers that we need (provided we chant his name all day long and all that). This, of course provides relief from the tiring activity called thinking. Who needs thinking when you can take refuge in faith? This is the approach followed by most western and religions originating from the Middle East.

Some of the eastern religions, notably Buddhism, take the route of convincing the believer that there are no answers. If there are no answers you can stop looking for them and be happy.

Of course, people who believe in one set of fairy tales do not like people who believe in another set of fairy tales so they occasionally have bloody orgies and try to eliminate the other in the name of their particular fairy.

-N

[Muddai]

Jinx,

"God let the world run by itself according to the law of nature with/without minimum supervision."

This contradicts the basic premise of all religions; that animals run according to laws of nature, and God, Jesus, Mohammed etc. allow you to rise above all that with "guidance" and faith in God. Especially in Islam, pretty much every action is dictated by the Quran, therefore, it is not the law of nature that rules religious folks.

"All the good things come from god and the bad things comes from this world. "

If God doesn't credit us with good things, and we are only responsible for the bad then we are all going to hell, right ?

[anajmi]

nausicaa,

Now you are being naive, if someone in my family is killed I do not think I will change my stance. Are you asuming that no one in my family has been killed? My younger sister has died the most horrible death imaginable. But that was her fate. God forbid someone in your family dies, you will either hate God or pray to him, you won't say he does not exist.

And for arguments sake let us say that God were to prevent the killing of the babies by the monsters, so what caused the killings, the incident in Godhra, so God should've prevented that, and what caused that, the karsevaks returning from Ayodhya so he should've prevented that, and what caused that, the destruction of the Masjid and so God should've prevented that and what caused that, the guy 50 years ago who put the idol in the mosque, may be God should've prevented that and we can go all the way to the beginning of creation of human beings by Allah.

Make an argument that makes sense.