Maatam for mind control and subjugation..

[stranger]

your paucity of common-sense and poverty of intellect does not compel me to explain anything to you, an immature fool who has nothing positive to contribute. come back and ask more worthy questions after you have grown up, say after another 10-15 years?

Cummon brother Zulfi, Dont get frustated now..EVrytime you Just critise, condemn and complaint..Most of the time, Your post are full of abuses and gaali-galoch but when i am asking you smthing postive, you are getting fail and running like anything..Shall i assume that you have nothing better to offer
Now Check whether the highlighted red statement suits better on whom...ME Or YOU ?

[Al Zulfiqar]

i was recounting the accounts of the 99th salgirah celebrations to a muslim shia friend, and when i mentioned that bohras in mumbai mohalla did 100 hours of maatam to mark the occasion, he was so shocked and found it so funny that he actually fell off his chair with insane mirth!!!

he was incredulous why anyone in their right minds would want to do maatam to celebrate a happy occasion. he wanted to know what was supposed to be the significance of stupid chest beating and linking self-flagellation for the shohoda with the birthday boy syedna.

the more i tried to explain the warped logic of abdes, the more he laughed. i felt for his health and safety and was afraid that i may unwittingly cause him a cardiac arrest or some fracture of the ribs. he profusely thanked me for this unbelievable hilarity and the great humor of the bohras. he was quite fired up with spreading this 100 hour matam marathon news amongst his community. i am sure a couple of hundred shias are laughing themselves to death right now, courtesy of saifee mahal.

now who says that the evil zaadas dont spread happiness in society???

[Al Zulfiqar]

no comments from the die-hard abdes? hey how about you guys atleast flinging a few choice gaalis here??

[Al Zulfiqar]

a new theory on maatam which will be soon expounded by the kothari mafia establishment is as follows:

the more maatam you do, the harder you pound your chest, the more rhythmically you do it and whether you employ both hands v/s just one hand, with whose niyyat you conduct yr self-torture, and who that person is, i.e. how high he is in the mutlaq order of things, where you hammer yourself - masjid, masalla, markaz, in the open or behind closed doors etc; the more sawab you obtain and the longer you will live. also the person for whom you did this maatam as an act of taabudat, that person's health improves and life span increases.

so now all you doubting thomases will understand why syedna looks like 75 when he is actually 200 years old, and why you are asked to do maatam between namaz's on yr masallah, or the secret behind the 100 hours matam marathon dedicated to syedna.

brilliant!

[seeker110]

He (Moula) is a doctor,you know.

[profastian]

Here you go again...

Stranger asks a question, AZ derails it and everyone esle jumps on the bandwagon


Agree, we might be doing some things wrong in the way we do maatam. Maybe we dance (which i, by the way, have never seen. must be in some perverted dream that you guys had), maybe we are looking out for the best thaal, the best peice of meat, seconds and all, granted.

But then, forget what you believe we should do during maatam, what do you guys do??? do slient maatam and go home? or wait for your turn in the thaal too?

They don't do silent matam and go home. In fact, during matam they are looking for a choice place for thaal (so they can get the first thaal) and wait for the food to arrive while ridiculing the matam we are doing... Jiss thali main khatay hain usi main ched kartey hain..

[ghulam muhammed]

ridiculing the matam we are doing

Does your kind of matam deserve a round of applause ? Just sit back and think and moreover the 'ridiculous' matam is ridiculed not the mourning of the shohadas or the greatness of Imam Hussain (a.s.).

[Al Zulfiqar]

and today the morons will do purjosh maatam, not for mourning hussain and the shohodas, but to celebrate the 99th salgirah of syedna. can you find anything more stupid and nonsensical???

this basically reduces maatam to a senseless ritual, which is what i and all sensible people have been claiming all along.

would all these lakhs of mindless abdes also do crazy maatam on the birthdays of their parents? would they sit and do maatam on their own birthdays????

[truebohra]

To all Progressive,
Please dont trivialize & mock the practice of Matam. It may be right according to your personal opinions so please keep it to yourself. In fact you are hurting the sentiments of people of a community whom you claim to be part of. If claim to have administrative issue with kothar then stick to your purpose & dont mock , trivialize the positon of Dai , his followers & their practice. if you want to really bridge the gap between both the side of divide then stop mockery like done by AZ.
AZ , with your vitriol & smear campaign you are hurting the sentiments of common dawoodi bohra. Our Moula apart from yours (as u claim) & ours Dai he is a father figure (Bawa Shafq) for which we have immense love , respect.

[truebohra]

and today the morons will do purjosh maatam, not for mourning hussain and the shohodas, but to celebrate the 99th salgirah of syedna. can you find anything more stupid and nonsensical???

this basically reduces maatam to a senseless ritual, which is what i and all sensible people have been claiming all along.

would all these lakhs of mindless abdes also do crazy maatam on the birthdays of their parents? would they sit and do maatam on their own birthdays????

AZ, we do matam not only our birthday & our fathers birthday but every day. It not just a ritual we do remeber imam hussain (AS) & the sacrifice everyday, which gives us strength in adversity. In fact the practice has touched many part of my daily life & has shaped my attitude & behavior for positive change. I am 100 % sure majority of common Dawoodi Bohras have same opinion.
Remember its is said even by the other shias, 'Every place is Karbala, Every Day is Ashura'.
Next time you meet your shia friend & quote him this you will actually avoid him "fall off his chair with insane mirth!!"

[labbaikyaHussain]

talking about matam to AZ is just like bhes ke aage bin bajaanna....this joker is so much lost soul that i must say bander kyaa jaane adrak kaa sawaad.

[Al Zulfiqar]

labbaik,

trust you to describe exactly the nature of the abde beast.

'abde ke saamne been bajao aur woh maatam karne ke liye kudta hai...'!!

for all you ignorant fools, dont you understand the difference between sincere and dignified mourning and undignified and grotesque forms of self-indulgence and self-flagellation being practiced in the name of maatam 24/7??

but i suppose if you could understand something so seminal, we wouldnt be debating this point ad nauseum would we??

the enslavement and deception is so complete that the slaves do not know they are in chains!!!

[seeker110]

Matam is the only way they hide their illiteracy,imagine them talking about other subjects or Islam.Moula does shahadat bayan every time he gives a speech.He does make a lot of mistakes even with written material in front of him.Not a smart person.

[labbaikyaHussain]

Matam is the only way they hide their illiteracy,imagine them talking about other subjects or Islam.Moula does shahadat bayan every time he gives a speech.He does make a lot of mistakes even with written material in front of him.Not a smart person.

at the age of 100 you would be even able to come out of your bed,forget about delivering speech.

[labbaikyaHussain]

at the age of 100 you would not be even able to come out of your bed,forget about delivering speech.

[Al Zulfiqar]

in the photos of syedna's procession on marine drive, why arent the bohras not seen doing purjosh maatam?

it would have been an ideal opportunity for them to show the world how much the bohras love hussain. at the same time, the syedna and his accompanying zaadas could have unleashed torrents of the choicest abuses and laanats against the first 3 khalifas as the abdes do on this forum and only behind closed doors in their markaz/masjids. lets show the world how brave we are and care 2 hoots about the consequences since we are on the path of haq, led by our haq, nasaheb. we could have gladly accepted shahadat and then proudly said, 'DIE LIKE HUSSAIN.'

imagine thousands of dead bohras at whose mayyats abdes could have loudly and with great pride recited "INNA LID DAI-E, WA INNA DAI-E RAJEUN."

what a golden opportunity lost!

[Al Zulfiqar]

i am surprised at the lack of comments from abdes on why such a golden opportunity was lost??

[progpigs]

lol i can see reformist burning looking at the glory of Aqa Moula..

may your soul keep burning here in this world and then deep in hell forever

[ghulam muhammed]

Face it, atleast we had a reason to celebrate. you, you poor, strayed, misguided soul, didn't even have that much

Yes, you had a reason to celebrate the dai's birthday on a most lavish scale due to the freeflow of money but you NEVER EVER have reasons EVEN ONCE to celebrate the birthdays of Rasul Allah (s.a.w.), Mola Ali (a.s.), Imam Husain (a.s.) with even a 1% of the scale on which you celebrate the current dai's birthday and the 51st dai's urus..... you, you poor, strayed, misguided soul who can never understand the importance of Prophet (s.a.w.) or Panjatan Pak (a.s.) in comparison to this leader who sucks you high and dry and who has made himself the focal point of all your beliefs and for you everything revolves only around him due to which you are made to slowly but steadily erase the memories of the real torch bearers of Islam and the principles on which they firmly stood till their last breadth.

Yes! Strayed and Mis-guided, because that is what you are.

YES ! STRAYED AND MISGUIDED, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE.

[Al Zulfiqar]

what an opportunity lost! when thousands of bohras had gathered to watch the 99th salgirah procession on marine drive in mumbai, they could have been instructed to do purjosh maatam accompanied by sajda tujhe wajib hai and done sajda to syedna in open view of cameras of dozens of TV stations.

this would have not only proclaimed to the world the shaan of our dai, but also the bohras' blind love and faith in his leadership. but the most important benefit for us would have been that if billions of indians had watched for several hours the incessant maatam accompanied by lusty singing, imagine the mind control we would have achieved over them. we would have easily subjugated atleast a 100 million of them and converted them to bohraism.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i just cannot get over the tremendous opportunity that was left unutilised during the recent salgirah grand procession on marine drive in bombay.

i hear from 'deepthroat' that the high powered PR firm engaged to drum up massive media coverage for syedna and the 99th b'day bashes, has been fired and their payments put on hold after i exposed their serious lapses in not capitalising fully on these events when the entire media glare was on syedna.

the grapevine is buzzing that a couple of zaadas also have been dragged over the mat for not instructing this PR firm to include the powerful mind control tool of frenzied maatam and unleashing it on the gullible indians and pakistanis who were glued to their tv sets. we could have had a few thousand more converted abdes who could have been promoted to nachta kudta sheikhs...

[Al Zulfiqar]

nallu,

what i always feared, has now finally come to pass. you have lost your marbles...!!!

the time to confine you to an institution for the mentally insane is nigh. tch tch...

[Al Zulfiqar]

time to revive this thread, as ramzan was a glaring example of the use of maatam as a superb tool to manipulate and subjugate this gullible community of abdes.

i have been informed by 'deep throat' that bohras are being subtly brainwashed to step up their maatam fervour in view of syedna's delicate health. death being certain upon all of us, it is only a matter of time before it overtakes the old and frail syedna mb, and of course the generals at the mumbai HQ will then need to unleash a veritable tsunami of maatam on the shrieking masses. better to have them primed, oiled and in full battle-ready mode to carry out this exercise in self-flagellation.

the thumping of sinewy chests must perforce shake the foundations of islam and loosen the cranial moorings of loyal abdes who will then automatically reach into their wallets to assuage their grief. that is the plan and the aimed for sawaab.

[Al Zulfiqar]

since the syedna has gone into seclusion due to poor health and a blanket thrown over any news about him, a huge maatam must be organised across all vatans, bilaads and moze's so that it can invigorate him, energise him afresh to come out of purdah and bless us with his divine presence.

i suggest that a rolling maatam be organised whereby from one corner of the earth to the other there is constant maatam going on every second somewhere from australia in the east to north america in the west, moving alongwith the dawn of ilm. namaaz shud be suspended and maatam conducted instead under the watchful eyes of daras trained MC's who will control the ebb and flow of maatam, its tempo, passion and decibel levels.

any suggestions to enhance this noorani practice towards our noble goal will be much appreciated.

[JC]

I fully agree with Bro AZ. The Namaz should be replaced by 4 Rakat each for Taher, Burhan and Muffi. This should be followed by endless Matam, if Muslims can do tawaf round the clock around Kabaa, why cannot there be matam every second?? This should be arranged. All Masjids should be renamed as Matmids. For Burhan's health and speedy recovery abdes should donate into 'Dua-e-Dawa min Dai' fund in Fakhir rakams. As it is 100 th milad of 52 and there are three Ds in this new fund, the minimum amount should be 100 x 52 x3 = 15,600.

[Al Zulfiqar]

the shias already call their jamaatkhanas maatamgaahs. there is no objection if we convert ours too, to the same name.

as per modern bohra faith under the leadership of the 52nd syedna and his man-soos, maatam is more important in spiritual value than ordinary namaaz. it is the mark of a 'true' shia muslim and guaranteed to take you to jannat.

dont be too surprised if our masjids and markaz's are soon equipped with fixed electronic paddles and sharp barbed chains which will hit you rhythmically where you sit, so that you dont have to hammer yrself personally and tire your arms and hands. just present yrself like sheeps to the slaughter and get pounded, whipped and flailed to obtain heavenly sawaab.

[Muslim First]

Ala maqaam
even as a third person,not as a dawoodi bohra or a progressive,i feel ur posts are absolute rubbish and childish. u dont even understand why matam is done,and what is the reason to remember hussain in each and every majlis.
u are seriously wrong in ur approach.

SHAIKH ALA MAQAAM should explain sighting Quran and sunnah 'why matam is done,and what is the reason to remember hussain in each and every majlis.'

[Muslim First]

Mustafa
Secondly, and no offence meant, but if you were to litterally live by the Quran, then where does it mention that you should watch TV or work on a computer or you should eat burgers? You should also live on a diet of dried bread right!!!???

Where does it say you should not watch TV in Qur'an or teaching of Prophet?
You should be judicious in "what you watch". If computer was invented in Prophets time, I am sure he would have used it and you would not be asking ediotic question. Diet of dry bread? Prophet and other Sahabas did eat good food when it was available so stop parroting.

Now have you heard word "Bidaah"? Just google "Hadith on Bidah" to understand it.

Firstly, the shahadat of Hussain happened after the Quran was revealed. So you asking where was it mentioned in the Quran is pretty weird. It's like asking for the tales of Jesus in the Old Testament, which was written before His coming

Well then Maatam is not part of any worship of Allah SWT.

[Muslim First]

Now, to ask you your same question, where in the Quran does it say that Maatam should not be done?

Brother
If you wish to do Maatam 24/7 then you should do it bacause you feel for sacrifice of Alhl e bait. But it should be not part of worship of Allah SWT. I do not think it even belongs in Allah's Masjid. When you include it with your Namaaz then it is questionable.

For me I pray 5 (Separate) times a day. I follow Salat timing as per Qur'an and Sunnah. I dress in modest clothes. I do wear suit and tie for my business attire. I read and reflect on Qur'an as much as possible. I should fast but I cannot due to health reasons. I enjoy all modern convinces.

I follow 5 pillars and beliefs that have been precisely stated in Al-Imanul Mufassal, the faith in detail:
Amantu Billahi, Wa Malaikathi, wa Kutubih, wa Rusulihi, wal Yawmil Akhiri, wal Qadri, Khairihi wa Sharrahi minal Lahi Taala, Wal Bathi Badal Mawt.
That means:
I believe in Allah, in His Angels, in His Books, in His messengers, in Last day (Day of Judgment) and in the fact everything good or bad is decided by Allah, the Almighty, and in Life after death.

Here is what Murad Hoffmana former German diplomat writes in his book “Islam the Alternative”

A Muslim lives in a world without clergy and without religious hierarchy; when he prays he does not pray via Jesus, Mary or other interceding saints, but directly to God-as fully emancipated believer-and this in a religion free of mysteries. An atmosphere of this kind suits the modern democratic citizen come of age far better than the wondrous, mystery stricken atmosphere of Byzantine and Catholic Churches, geared towards “Intercession” and focusing sacraments administered by clergymen.
(Islam the Alternative (Amana Publication) , Page 15

Wasalaam

[anajmi]

So let's just park it there, because nowhere in the Quran is maatam disallowed as part of the namaaz or in a mosque.. but, like i said, its a matter of opinions.

That is a pretty naive way to put it. The Quran doesn't say you cannot masturbate in the masjid either. I cannot imaging what logic like yours would turn us into!!