Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

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Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#151

Unread post by Adam » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:31 am

9:102 refers to all of us since we are all conscious of having sinned. In 9:103, Prophet has been commanded to accept their sadaqa (zakaat) and pray for them to make them feel clean and to purify them (through their sadaqa).
Prophet accepted zakaat in person. However, he nominated aamils to be zakaat collectors for those (living afar) who could not offer zakaat in person to Prophet. 9:60 states that these collectors can be compensated with a share of zakaat collection.
So, in this debate, I must side with Adam. Prophet has stated that zakaat is haram for ahl-e-bayt. Hence Prophet cannot be included among the collectors mentioned in 9:60.


Well, good luck in trying to convince your friend, he's not capable of stopping :)

But, Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

Stop being tiresome, Adam. You have already answered this for yourself. They do not offer zakaat in accordance with Fatimid beliefs as you understand them. End of story. In this, let us agree to disagree.

Yes, since that has been said. I've repeated to show that everything other than the topic is being discussed, and it has been exhausted.

anajmi
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#152

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:22 am

Can you quote the ayah of the Quran that prohibits the giving of zakat to anyone other than the leader?

I am repeating to prove that you attribute lies to the Quran.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#153

Unread post by Adam » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:03 am

Can you quote the ayah of the Quran that the Prophet is One of the 8 categories?

I am repeating to prove that you attribute lies to the Quran.

anajmi
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#154

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:21 am

That can be easily done.

9:60 The offerings given for the sake of God are [meant] for the poor and the needy, and those who are in charge thereof, and those whose hearts are to be won over, and for the freeing of human beings from bondage, and [for] those who are over burdened with debts, and [for every struggle] in God's cause, and [for] the wayfarer: [this is] an ordinance from God - and God is all-knowing, wise.

9:103 [Hence, O Prophet,] accept that [part] of their possessions which is offered for the sake of God, so that thou mayest cleanse them thereby and cause them to grow in purity, and pray for them: behold, thy prayer will be [a source of] comfort to them-for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.

Now, Can you quote the ayah of the Quran that prohibits the giving of zakat to anyone other than the leader?

I am repeating to prove that you attribute lies to the Quran.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#155

Unread post by Adam » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:34 pm

That can be easily done.
9:103
خذ من اموالهم صدقة تطهرهم

Quoting The great Porus
So, in this debate, I must side with Adam. Prophet has stated that zakaat is haram for ahl-e-bayt. Hence Prophet cannot be included among the collectors mentioned in 9:60.


In this, let us agree to disagree.

anajmi
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#156

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting The great Porus
Is that what you have been reduced to now? :wink:

There is no prohibition in 9:103. Hence we can safely conclude that you are a liar who attributes lies to the Quran.

I agree to that!!

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#157

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:18 pm

From an earlier post :-

New Fatwa: Those who do not pay wajebat are Kafirs
Pune Camp Amil Abde Ali refuses the burial of Mr. Firoz Bandookwala

Mr. Firoz Bandookwala residing at 14, East Street - Pune 411001 died in hospital on 14th August 2008. Amil Abdeali refused his burial and his son Idris sitting beside him declared that since Firoz Bandookwala failed to pay wajebat he is Kafir and go and burn his body.

Elderly Firoz bhai's wife had died and buried in their plot in Pune kabrastan. His two sons had settled down in USA. So he was living in Pune all alone. Since he was unwell since last one year he could not go to the Amil and pay his wajebat. Ultimately he died in the hospital.

Bohras in Jamaat and in his neighborhood remained unconcerned but one Sunni Muslim social worker, Mr. Yasin Khan immediately rushed to the hospital. He got Firoz bhai's body claiming it as "unclaimed" and along with other Muslims buried him in Sunni Muslim Kabrastan after namaze-janaza.

On third day after Zohar prayer the Amil Abde ali told the Bohras "Look what happened to nahanjar Firoz! If any one stops coming to me and refuses to pay wajebat he/she will meet the same fate."

This Amil Abde Ali is known as "Jallad" (hangman) in Pune as he very arrogant, shameless and greedy and spares no one. He rolls in luxury in a posh bungalow known as "Saifee Mahal" in Pune and runs the business of selling and buying old cars and trades in diamonds. He has not been transferred from Pune inspite of several complaints from the harassed Bohras. He is a close relative of Sayedna Burhanuddin and hence unabashedly ruling Pune since last 22 years. Before him his father, Hatim Bhaisaheb was the Amil of Pune and the people still remember that kind-hearted gentleman.
This Amil Abde ali is a shining example of stinking corruption in Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb's administration.


Mr. Zain Rangoonwala, the managing director of Bombay Mercantile Bank died in London and was buried there but his wife Shirin Bahen Rangoonwala died in Bombay and was buried in a Shia Kabrastan in Naryalwadi Bombay, Advocate
Akber Ali Kazi and Mr. Shiraz bhai Karva died in Bombay and were buried in Shia Kabrastan.

Off course Dawoodi Bohras priests are neither Shias nor Sunnis, nor Dawoodi Bohras. They are a strange category!

anajmi
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#158

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:58 pm

Well, so much for an Amil appointed by an infallible Dai appointed by an infallible Imam appointed by Allah!!!

SBM
Posts: 6508
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#159

Unread post by SBM » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:15 am

Baad us Salaam:
Wajebaat bethak will be on Saturday at markaz after Maghrib/Isha namaz.
All mumineen are requested to bring Fakhir Najwa for Mansoos, Aali Qadar Muffadal Bhai Saheb Saifuddin TUS with Wajebaat.
Shukran:
Was Salaam,
Abeed-e-Syedna TUS
This is the message everyone is receiving. IT SAYS TO BRING FAKHIR NAJWA FOR MANSOOS AND NOTHING ABOUT ZAKAT TO HELP POOR AND NEEDY. It also proves that people are not giving willingly as many Abdes have mentioned here they have been asked (requested in Dawat E Lissan equal an order or otherwise)
Let us see how Abdes will beat each other to justify this Farman

Humsafar
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#160

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:01 am

Zakat does not exist in Burhani Bohra vocabulary. They just do not pay zakat.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#161

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:49 pm

Excerpts from an article which appeared in Tehelka magazine on 2nd July 2008 :-

"A glimpse into how the Syedna operates his empire is possible from a UK government inquiry into the Dawat-e-Hadiya trust, of which he is the sole trustee. In July 2001, Charity Commission UK began investigating this public trust with an annual turnover of £2 million (approximately Rs 15 crore). The commission found that of six nominees appointed to administer the trust, four were Syedna’s sons. It ordered them to pay Rs 3 crore back to the trust because the Syedna and the nominees had made payments to themselves, violating their fiduciary responsibilities."

"A mail circulated prior to Syedna’s visit to California in May asked every household to pay $14,000 ( Rs 5.6 lakh) for the Syedna’s youngest son to inaugurate a mosque in Los Angeles."

Tanzanian government expelled the Syedna for his alleged complicity in transferring money out of that country in 1967, and nine years later when Sheikh Abdul Qayum Kaderbhoy, the Bohra priest in Sri Lanka, was caught smuggling jewels in his robes by the Sri Lankan government.

“The priest charges Rs 2-10 lakh for permission for burial in Bohra cemeteries even when the land is leased from the municipal corporation. The Bohras cannot have what the Constitution allows them because we need the Syedna’s permission for everything,”

“The Syedna insists that all mosques and communal property be vested in him rather than waqf boards. Last September, through an RTI, we found that he and his coterie submitted a forged certificate in 2000 to the municipal corporation to get permits for new properties,” says Yusuf Ali RG, a reformist whose father defied the Syedna. The family has been socially boycotted on the Syedna’s orders since.

Taxes and control of finances of charities or trusts form the financial basis of the Syedna’s empire. The 1979 commission, led by retired judges NP Nathwani and VM Tarkunde, pointed out, “All trust properties of the community are at the Syedna’s disposal, whether he is legally the sole trustee or not. Thus, he can take decisions as to the application of the income of any trust for such purposes as he considers charitable. Any person challenging his decision has to face the consequences.”

THE COMMISSION’S estimate (in 1979) was that trusts the Syedna controlled in Maharashtra alone were worth Rs 50 crore. It recommended that these trusts be regulated by laws similar to those which govern other Muslim trusts such as the Dargah Khwaja Sahab Act. Norman Contractor, a Dawoodi Bohra businessman and reformist who died in 1983, alleged that the Syedna and his family were embezzling charity funds. Reformists requested the Central government to probe financial details of two trusts headed by the Sydena — Dawat-e-Hadiya and the Syedna Taher Saifuddin Memorial Foundation — in 1977, alleging the priest was investing in industries that followers were then forced to buy shares in.

“In private, income tax authorities told us they cannot investigate this, given the pressure from higher authorities,” says Saifuddin Insaf, general secretary of the Dawoodi Bohras’ Central Board.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#162

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:12 pm

Humsafar wrote:Zakat does not exist in Burhani Bohra vocabulary. They just do not pay zakat.
You are right, they dont pay ZAKAT, they only pay DAI'S-CUT......... Su ajab shaan na MORE-LA chhe

ozmujaheed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#163

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:38 am

Adam if it keeps your mind at peace I gave my zakat to the needy as per Islamic majority understanding
I also give wajebat because my dependents want to be in the fold but. I Treat it as tax like sales tax I wish I had a choice of not enriching the mansoos's extended dependents .

Hanif
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#164

Unread post by Hanif » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:02 pm

ozmujaheed wrote:Adam if it keeps your mind at peace I gave my zakat to the needy as per Islamic majority understanding
I also give wajebat because my dependents want to be in the fold but. I Treat it as tax like sales tax I wish I had a choice of not enriching the mansoos's extended dependents .
Out of curiosity, why do your dependents want to be in the fold? Anybody who does not believe in a religion should leave and search for the truth. I never realised there was sooooooo much coersion in the bohora faith until I came to this site. Any leader who orders a corpse of a female turned out of the grave (naked) is not fit to be a religious leader. He is a kasai. Do your dependents know this and what do that think of this? If they know this and still want to be part of this group then they are sinners too. They are sinners because they are supporting sinners. Shame on you and your dependents. By giving wajebat which includes zakah, to such a religion is not a believer but a kafir and a zalim.

Indian government is truly a corrupt govt. But the committers of crime (if what is being stated in this forum is true) are not Muslims or Christians or Jews, or Hindus, etc. but zalimuns. What a corrupt and pathetic religion. This is a shame to Fatimid Imamat and the Dawat. It is a shame to Islam.

Now, don't defend by saying "not everything being said in this forum is truth." I know first hand how Amils operate and I took care of that at one point and never went back to the Mosque to this day. However, I never realised it was at the highest level until I came to this forum. I have learned a lot on this forum and am convinced even more that present day Dawat is a farce. Which makes me question the validity of the hidden Imam. I had doubts but the actions of dawat leads me to believe my suspicions are true. Dai's actions and his family's actions have proved that no Imam would condone such actions. Imam is supposed to be Aqle Qul. He would never entrust his followers to such zaalimuns. So now, Dawat is wrong and Imam is wrong.

Thanks Progressives for confirming my doubts.

aliabbas_aa
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#165

Unread post by aliabbas_aa » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:31 pm

Very well said brother Hanif!. People really need to move out completely from this satanic cult and seek the truth. I am really thankful to proggy brothers who realized this and made this forum and gave us a platform to seek the truth. By doing this we can create a strong opposition front against this oppressive hierarchy from outside and make them shameful of their corrupt practices. .By doing this we can also take the help of other Muslims and expose their corrupt teachings to the world thereby stopping the wrong representation of Islam. I have even heard many abdes themselves complaining about kothar etc, the only problem they have is that they think that there is no where to go leaving the bori fold and have a superiority complex in mixing with the so called "miyabhai". Unfortunately wrong representations of Islam on the other side of the fence (barelvi\sufi etc)dont give the abdes a chance to explore the truth and end up living in this cult for their entire life as a hypocrite.

ozmujaheed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#166

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:05 am

Hanif

My dependents overseas are old and have leaved 70 years as bohras they cannot leave as easily
Y as we in our mid lives can. And as a secular activist I can not deny their democratic right to remain even if they are oppressed.

As I have always said who ever want to remain they are free but do not Harass those who do not want to and do not victimize through barat. We should reach a compromise where even in one household an abde and prog can coexist without interference from the Amil .

Hakimi
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adam where are you?

#167

Unread post by Hakimi » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 am

sorry Adam to make this public, but I asked u a very simple question about zakaat and till now u have not replied to it.....i understand u have knowledge about bohra books, so i think it is your duty to reply to these basic questions.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#168

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:08 pm

WAMY distributes zakat al-fitr in Mali, Chad and Iraqi Kurdistan

JEDDAH: The World Assembly for Muslim Youths (WAMY) has distributed sizable quantities of in-kind Zakat Al-Fitr (Eid Alms) over thousands of needy families in Mali, Chad and Iraqi Kurdistan, it was reported here today.

In a press release, WAMY said quantities of rice and other foodstuffs were distributed by its representatives in Mali, Chad and the Kurdistan part of Iraq with poor families, orphans, the displaced, elderly and drought-hit people benefiting from the gesture which is collected from fasting Muslims on the eve of Eid Al-Fitr.

http://www.arabnews.com/wamy-distribute ... -kurdistan

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#169

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:50 pm

the hidden imam has requested me to most solemnly convey to all of you that instead of paying wajebat to the dai, zakat should be given directly to him.

he needs the money to fight the dai who is using every trick in the book to obstruct him from revealing himself as the rightful imam. the dai is threatening to inform his abdes that if and when the imam reveals himself it will be only after verification from dai. the imam is now in a right religious quandary and short of an all-out war of apocalyptic proportions with the dai and his savage blood-thirsty hordes, he has few options left. to fight the dai in courts in india is futile and an extremely time-consuming exercise which he can ill-afford against the battery of high powered legal counsel and political and underworld connections of the dai.

all right thinking bohras disgusted with the dai and his parasitic family should donate atleast part of their dues to the hidden imam. until such time that a secure set-up can be established, pls keep this money with yrselves and wait until the time is ripe. lets help the true and rightful imam secure his rights by defeating the imposters and usurpers.

just as an example, i always enclose a cheque drawn in the name of imamuzzaman when presenting a fakhir rakam in the envelope on imammuzaman's salgirah. i request you all atleast emulate my practice.

badrijanab
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#170

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:20 am

Adam wrote:
This point is confirmed. That the Imam collects the Zakat. This is accordance to the Quran. (The "others" might want to disagree, but right now, we aren't addressing them).

DB belief is that the Dai Muthlaq is the sole representative of the Imam, and will collect the Zakat during Satr.

Proggies had a problem from the 47th or 51st Dai, and probably didn't pay Zakat to them. BUT, they did pay to the DAIs before them. (About Zakat to Dai, refer Syedi Sadiqali Sahebs Nashiat)

Double standards and confusion for the Proggies? I believe so.[/color]
Not only for DB but also for entire aalam-a-Islam, Zakat is the pillar of Islam. None of Dai Mutlaq, Mazoon and Mukasir - after concelment of Syyedina Molana Imam Tayyeb a.s. till Taher Saifuddin - NO ONE - NEVER EVER wrote in their books commanding Mumineen to pay their zakat to Dai Mutlaq!!!!!!!!!! THUS KOTHAR IS NOT AUTHORIZED TO COLLECT ZAKAT. KOTHAR IS ILLEGITIMATELY / ILLEGALLY COLLECTING ZAKAT FROM MUMINEEN BOHRAS.

When Sheikh Sadik Ali sahab is making prophecy that 46th Dai is the last Dai - Kothar conveniently shut their eyes. DOUBLE STANDARD PRACTICED BY KOTHAR.

(Q1) Show in which book Sheikh Sadik Ali sahab is commanding Mumineen to pay their Zakat to Dai?
(Q2) When none of the FIFTY DAI's OR THEIR MAZOON OR MUKASIR none of them after Imam Tayyeb a.s. have commanded to pay Zakat to Dai Mutlaq - then does Sheikh Sadik Ali sahab hold superior position than all fifty Dai's to command on Pillar of Islam? I am pretty sure Sheikh Sadik Ali sahab has not given any of such command and as it is habit of Kothar to invent and forge lies to cover themselves they are misrepresenting Sheikh Sadik Ali sahab. Nevertheless, give the reference where does he says so?

AS PER DAIMUL ISLAM (PART 1) ONLY IMAM CAN COLLECT ZAKAT. Kothar is NOT AUTHORIZED BY IMAM to collect Zakat money!!! So, all money that Dawoodi Bohra Shabab (Abde's) have paid has unfortunately gone only in making Kothar further rich and our ghareeb Dawoodi Bohras gone further ghareeb!!! Afsos.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#171

Unread post by Adam » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:03 am

@Badri Janab

Giving Zakat to the Dai (before 51st):

- Read Muntaza' al Akhbar, story of Syedna Ismail Badruddin 38th Dai, he went to Partabghar & Islampura and "collected Zakat, Khumus, Zakat al Fitr, and Silat"

Concluding:
Rasoolullah, Imams and Dai Muthlaq collect Zakat from the people.
Proggies, don't have someone to give Zakat do. They don't follow the Daim and Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and practices.
They are NOT Dawoodi Bohras.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#172

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:23 am

Humsafar wrote:Zakat does not exist in Burhani Bohra vocabulary. They just do not pay zakat.
since adam has come back after recuperating from the grievous wounds inflicted on him last time, i think we should resurrect the kothari dawat's lies too.

as humsafar has succinctly put it last time, i must repeat this most important fact: dawoodi abde bohras of today DO NOT PAY ZAKAT! the word zakat has been abolished and made redundant from the burhani lexicon. vajebaat supersedes everything. its is the new super tax.

what adam is attempting is to divert progressives into useless and deceptive argument and topics to diver their attention from this shocking fact. as usual his entire strategy is based on smoke and mirrors. a true kothari agent!

humanbeing
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#173

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:25 am

Adam
We have heard from the stories (rivayats) during bayaans from sayedna saheb and his appointees about how Imam maula Ali used to sit till late nights under candle light and draft accounts of funds collected.

It is also known / learnt that Imam Ali had good sense of accounts and justice was his virtue, so much that people including omar would refer to maula ali to solve cases.

Such is the inspiration for bohras, then why is accountability avoided in kothar.

If you are asking the question :
Adam wrote:Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?
Commoners are asking : [/quote] Who do the Kothari give collected Zakaat to? [/quote]

Apart from wajebaat and sabeel, every scheme and project has its own funds and bohras are cornered to shell out donation when approach jamaat to seek raza.

Aakhir ; wajebaat / sabeel / sila fitra / qardan hasana / hoob / ikraam / najwa / ziyafats / laagats jaate kaha hai ??

badrijanab
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#174

Unread post by badrijanab » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:53 am

Adam wrote:@Badri Janab

Giving Zakat to the Dai (before 51st):

- Read Muntaza' al Akhbar, story of Syedna Ismail Badruddin 38th Dai, he went to Partabghar & Islampura and "collected Zakat, Khumus, Zakat al Fitr, and Silat"

Concluding:
Rasoolullah, Imams and Dai Muthlaq collect Zakat from the people.
Proggies, don't have someone to give Zakat do. They don't follow the Daim and Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and practices.
They are NOT Dawoodi Bohras.
Adam bhai faulty conclusion baad me karna.

Janab, 'Muntaza al Akhbar' humari society ke paas he, yeh bahut badi kitaab he, kaha talash karu - page number ya chapter number to bataiye?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#175

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:48 pm

in certain areas of every city in india/pakistan, goondas collect hafta from every shopkeeper, ostensibly to provide 'protection', although protection of whom and from whom is highly debatable.

similarly, during ganpati festival in india, so-called volunteers from every mandal which puts up a ganpati idol and a light and sound show around it collect funds from every business in their respective areas, there is no option to say no or give small amounts. a subtle force accompanied by veiled threats is used and you have to cough up the amounts demanded, albeit with some futile or ineffective negotiations, a la bohra jamaat.

based on adam's reasoning and logic, shall we also term these hafta vasuli's and collection of funds as collection of vajebaat or so-called zakat? with the goonda don equal to your zaada and his collectors, the goon amils?

after all whats the difference between the two? finally all the money goes to appease worldly gods and keep them in ayyashi, to buy your survival, safety and peace of mind.

Adam
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Re: Who do the Proggies give Zakat to?

#176

Unread post by Adam » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:05 pm

badrijanab wrote:
Adam wrote:@Badri Janab

Giving Zakat to the Dai (before 51st):

- Read Muntaza' al Akhbar, story of Syedna Ismail Badruddin 38th Dai, he went to Partabghar & Islampura and "collected Zakat, Khumus, Zakat al Fitr, and Silat"

Concluding:
Rasoolullah, Imams and Dai Muthlaq collect Zakat from the people.
Proggies, don't have someone to give Zakat do. They don't follow the Daim and Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and practices.
They are NOT Dawoodi Bohras.
Adam bhai faulty conclusion baad me karna.

Janab, 'Muntaza al Akhbar' humari society ke paas he, yeh bahut badi kitaab he, kaha talash karu - page number ya chapter number to bataiye?

BadriJanab. I already gave you the Chapter, Aqal istemaal karo.
In the Chapter of Syedna Ismail Badruddin 38th Dai.
Muntaza' al Akhbar is divided according to the history of each Imam and Dai. (Just in case your illiterate teachers didn't tell you that already).

Concluding....