Just a few simple questions to abde syedna fanatics...

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Omega,

I was not me. However I miss you. Some one has created new ID HUSSAIN KS. I feel you will be with us on this fourum. If get a time I would like to chat with you too. I am following your post and I must say that you are unique in abdes as they only know foul language.

[Smart]

Is it so? Why are there no answers to the questions asked? Why only peripheral posts?

['sauga dude]

Assalam aleykum Brother Omega,

Continuation of the discussion of moalana's recent visit to Saudi Arabia...

I accept your point that every year after the Hajj season, umrah is restricted to allow for maintenance work. However, WHY did the farman informing mumineen that "raza nathi" have to be circulated. If the Saudis were not allowing access, would it not have been more understandable if the refusal of the visas was left to the Saudis. If a Bohra had wanted to travel for umrah and applied for a visa like anybody else, the Saudi would have denied him the visa anyway. Why did the kothar have to dirty its hands by saying "raza nathi"?

[Omega]

Assalam aleykum Brother Omega,

Continuation of the discussion of moalana's recent visit to Saudi Arabia...

'sauga dude wrote:I accept your point that every year after the Hajj season, umrah is restricted to allow for maintenance work. However, WHY did the farman informing mumineen that "raza nathi" have to be circulated. If the Saudis were not allowing access, would it not have been more understandable if the refusal of the visas was left to the Saudis. If a Bohra had wanted to travel for umrah and applied for a visa like anybody else, the Saudi would have denied him the visa anyway. Why did the kothar have to dirty its hands by saying "raza nathi"?

Brother Sauga Dude,

Salaam,

As soon as Aqa Moula (TUS) Safar started, few people went without proper visa i.e they went on business visa instead of visa which is specifically issued for Umra.

And Umrah was restricted for other's outside Saudi so a farman was given that Raza is not their, so that people are not harassed or get in any kind of trouble.

And brother Kothar did not dirtied its hand but saved Bohra's from getting their hands dirtied.

@Brother Husain_KSA,

Salaam,

Sure we will inshalla have some constructive discussion.

[bohri]

Omega bhai

And Umrah was restricted for other's outside Saudi so a farman was given that Raza is not their, so that people are not harassed or get in any kind of trouble.

And brother Kothar did not dirtied its hand but saved Bohra's from getting their hands dirtied.

What kind of trouble did they think they would get into?

[Omega]

Brother Bohri,

Salaam,

as i said earlier that few people went to Saudi on business visa's for Umra and faced Saudi authorities, so to save all from facing any problem a farman was given that at that time thier is no Raza

[Human]

^
That sounds so similar to the excuse everyone tended to use at school. "I'm late because the tyre of my bicycle was punctured"

Tyre Puncture!

[Smart]

Sounds like a very lame excuse.
Why are abdes treated like kids by the establishment. Couldn't they have issued instruction that "Umra ni visa vagar raza nathi"? Why the blanket ban? This is a cheap post facto justification of the sort indulged by those who want to whitewash things after their bosses make mistakes, or do actions when they have something to hide.

Not convincing at all unless you are completely brainwashed.

[Omega]

@Brother Smart,

Salaam,

A move which was to save every one from hassle of Saudi authorities is being questioned. Kindly enlighten how it was a mistake on the part of authorities

[Smart]

What hassles are you talking about? Aren't they always there? Have they ever stopped Bohras from going for Umra? Why was there a ban on all abdes, including those who stayed in Saudi Arabia and who did not have to take a visa?

The mistake is that Bohras have been converted into a human worshipping cult by the last two Dais. It is because of this that Saudis had banned the syedna for last so many years. Now this one opportunity got after a lot of cajoling, promises to behave and what else, was not be spoiled by abdes coming and doing what they are accustomed to doing and spoiling the situation.

Otherwise there was no reason for having a blanket razaa nathi.

[Omega]

What hassles are you talking about? Aren't they always there? Have they ever stopped Bohras from going for Umra? Why was there a ban on all abdes, including those who stayed in Saudi Arabia and who did not have to take a visa?

The mistake is that Bohras have been converted into a human worshipping cult by the last two Dais. It is because of this that Saudis had banned the syedna for last so many years. Now this one opportunity got after a lot of cajoling, promises to behave and what else, was not be spoiled by abdes coming and doing what they are accustomed to doing and spoiling the situation.

Otherwise there was no reason for having a blanket razaa nathi.

Brother Smart,

If one is caught doing Umra on a business visa their are a lot of legal problems faced, this is what i was talking about.
Thier was never a ban on any of the bohra's living in Saudi, they were present in large numbers (go through the post by Brother Husain_KSA) Nor their was a ban on Syedna (TUS). Kindly go through the previous posts on the same thread.

[SBM]

Brother Omega
Asalam U Alekum
Won't it be easy to say that RAZA was not given because Kothar did not want anyone to shout Moula Moula and do Qadamboosi and other idiotic things which are Un Islamic to avoid the rath of Saudi officials.
Even when KUN safar was announced and people were asked to go there (restricted in the begining) the FARMAN was given not to shout Moula Moula and not to do Salaam to any Qasr-e-Aali in Karbala (it was circulated from Vazarat-please do not ask me to produce the copy, everyone has seen it)
I know you are new PR for Kothar but an honest answer will save you from too many make up excuses.
HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY, INSANITY IS THE BEST DEFENSE

[SBM]

Omega quote

If one is caught doing Umra on a business visa their are a lot of legal problems faced, this is what i was talking about.

Brother Omega
Salaam
If I understand correctly people who have business visa are allowed to do UMRAH, people who have UMRAH visa are NOT allowed to do Business I think you got it otherway around,Brother Hussain_KSA or some one with knowledge with Saudi Umrah Visa can correct me if I am wrong

['sauga dude]

If one is caught doing Umra on a business visa their are a lot of legal problems faced, this is what i was talking about.

Assalam aleykum Brother Omega,

A quick Google search will show you that there is absolutely no problems in performing umrah on a business visa. I have also telephoned one of the travel agencies in Canada authorised by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to issue umrah visas and have confirmed this fact with them.

Abraham Lincoln said "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

[msdubai]

Dear AZ,

This is my first post on this forum. I have been reading all your comments & your questions which you have created that is what I should say for our Moula. After reading your comments have clearly understood that you are a so called reformist who has taken the burden of changing 1 million peoples mind. If you cant follow the norms of a community & tell them as fake then why are you still a part of this community & bothered about one million sheep as you call them.

Why you always keep on asking about the crores of money which our mouls has. I am sure that you are not paying any sabil, Wajebat or this sort of any expense then why are you so much worried about that money when you are the ones who are not paying. If you believe in moula then you have no right to ask for any accounts from him & if you dont believe him why are you so much worried dude. Do your own work rather than pointing out the works of our moula so that atleast you yourself are bebefitted from it.

I dont understand what changes can you bring after writing such rubbish things & what you want to prove. For you Moula already doesnt exist then whom do you want to convince with these points. Your brothers Mr Ghulam, Mr Insaaf, Omabharti are already reciting the same things which you are doing so whom you want to convince. By the way what you handful of people can do for a person having a million followers with him.

Yes for us he is Haqiqi Khuda. Now you will commment that I am saying the things which are taught to me from childhood. So I will answer that alhamdollilah I am being brought up this burhani daur that is why only I am & people like me are under the saaya of this Moula so I dont need to worry about my future. For you definately these things are not practical as you & your brothers are too much practical for this world & my suggestion to you is rather wasting your time in pointing out bad thing & acts of Moula use it in some creative things. Be least bothered about the community where you are not a part of it. Dont care so much for our money which we are paying happily to our moula & inshallah in future also will try to pay more & more wajebat. WE DONT WANT ANY ACCOUNTS FROM HIIM SO YOU ALSO PLEASE STOP CARING FOR OUR MONEY OUR MOULA & OUR KAUM

[seeker110]

Money collected was for gharib. misqeen. orphans, bewa and other muslim needs.Not for Lootera family alone.Are the checks made out to m.Burhan and sons.They are surely used that way.

[SBM]

msdubai
Your mere presence on this forum and debating shows that this forum and the movement is getting attention from Kotharis and Abdes. Revolution and changes occur very slowly, read the history of revolution in Iran, or the war of independence for India.

[SBM]

msdubai writes
By the way what you handful of people can do for a person having a million followers with him.

Just remember Yazid had an army of Million and Imam Husain only had 72 Shudas and you abdes are doing PURJOSH MAATAM for those 72 Shudas and his leader Imam Husain and not for the leader of Million followers. Figure that out..........

[Human]

Yes for us he is Haqiqi Khuda. Now you will commment that I am saying the things which are taught to me from childhood. So I will answer that alhamdollilah I am being brought up this burhani daur that is why only I am & people like me are under the saaya of this Moula so I dont need to worry about my future. For you definately these things are not practical as you & your brothers are too much practical for this world & my suggestion to you is rather wasting your time in pointing out bad thing & acts of Moula use it in some creative things.

msdubai,

I'm happy you're atleast admitting to human worship. That makes you a member following a cult. As long as you admit that, its okay. You also admitted that you guys are brought up in such a way that you do not think practically, good! We just gave another example of brainwashing done by cults. Its even more effective when done from childhood and you are a good example of that.

Wasting time is what you are doing here I think and you'd understand if you're smart enough.

[Human]

Be least bothered about the community where you are not a part of it.

msdubai,

That is where you fail to understand. 'Our Community', its not something that moula has invented and patented. We all are dawoodi bohras by the virtue of birth in a dawoodi bohra family. Thus, it is not 'your community'. Community includes us all, the only thing is we have a difference of opinion because we support the truth. And you are a brainwashed zombie who follows pretty much all the orders coming from up above without questioning them.

[Human]

By the way what you handful of people can do for a person having a million followers with him.

Also looks like you've never read any real history. All you might know is the stuff told to you in vaez and sabaks.

[porus]

Yes for us he is Haqiqi Khuda.

Mushrik! Did not learn Quran. Probably wasn't taught. Shame on his parents!!

By the way what you handful of people can do for a person having a million followers with him.

What could a Musa do against the mighty Pharoh?
What could an Isa do against the mighty Roman Empire and its stooges, the Jews of Sanhedrin?
What could a Muhammad do against an empire of Mushriks?
What could a Wilberforce do against obscurantist Slave Owners?
What could a Gandhi do against an Empire on whom the sun never set?
What could a Martin Luther King Jr. do against an entrenched and powerful uncivilized society?

And how are the mighty fallen?

['sauga dude]

Yes for us he is Haqiqi Khuda.

Assalam aleykum Sister Ms. Dubai,

One simple question which I hope you will care to think about carefully before you answer - If to you moulana is the HAQIQI khuda, what is Allah to you?

[Omega]

by omabharti
I know you are new PR for Kothar but an honest answer will save you from too many make up excuses.
HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY, INSANITY IS THE BEST DEFENSE

Salaam,

Ok that was a new one, but it will be hard for you to digest that i was a sympathiser of the movement in my youth, and that can also be a reason that i want to discuss things instead of usual cat fight.

Assalam aleykum Brother Omega,

A quick Google search will show you that there is absolutely no problems in performing umrah on a business visa. I have also telephoned one of the travel agencies in Canada authorised by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to issue umrah visas and have confirmed this fact with them.

Walekum as salaam Brother Suaga Dude

Yes people are allowed to do Umrah on thier Business visa, kindly do confirm about the period suceeding the Zilhajja when after Hajj a lot of maintainence work goes on and people outside Saudi are not allowed for Umrah

[Maqbool]

Dear Omega,

If you are honest you can very well understand from the circular circulated during the umrah visit of Sayedna. The restriction was only to avoid exposing -the zahiliyat of mumenins performed in front of Sayedna- to the authority of Saudi. That is the reason they have mentioned not to do sajda and other zahiliet acts in public. If the mumenis come in quantity this can not be prevent and that is the reason for the fatwa.


The more you will give clarification on this subject, you have to lie more and exposing your self, since here peoples have brains and thinks on a right way.

better give up or argue on the real facts.

[Omega]

Brother Maqbool,

Salaam,

Yes that can also be a point, but the main reason was Visa restrictions from Saudi authorities.

[msdubai]

Dear Human,

When you are saying that it is your commuinity as well I am really happy I understand that you have a differnce of opinion on the subject where moula is concened that is what i wanted t mention that if you are not happy with moula then dont follow but dont take out faults choose your own way of living & believe me nobody is here forcing you to follow a religion if you dont want to. So live & let live

[msdubai]

msdubai writes
By the way what you handful of people can do for a person having a million followers with him.

Just remember Yazid had an army of Million and Imam Husain only had 72 Shudas and you abdes are doing PURJOSH MAATAM for those 72 Shudas and his leader Imam Husain and not for the leader of Million followers. Figure that out..........

Dear Ombaharti

One thing I really want to appreciate whole heartedly is that you are really a very intelligent person as I really liked your quote. Yes I agree that Iman Hussain had only 72 Shodas & Yazid had a million.But dear Iman Hussain became famous after this revoultion bacause he sacrificed his & his shodas life for that. So now whats up what are you going to sacrifice for your progressive thinking to be accepted.

[msdubai]

Yes for us he is Haqiqi Khuda.

Assalam aleykum Sister Ms. Dubai,

One simple question which I hope you will care to think about carefully before you answer - If to you moulana is the HAQIQI khuda, what is Allah to you?

Dear Sauga,

I am answering very truthfully that I dont know the face of KHuda so whenever I see my Moula I believe that this is the face of Khuda. I know you will not agree with my answer but I wrote what I feel

[msdubai]

msdubai
Your mere presence on this forum and debating shows that this forum and the movement is getting attention from Kotharis and Abdes.

Dear Omabharti,

As you know opposites attract eack other so that is why I also could not resist myself from wrting over here