Dawoodi Bohra Forum

i am glad everyone is ignoring and NOT responding to mental illness

Humsafar wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:27 am

Biradar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:17 am
SBM was a complex man. He was clearly concerned about the community, but his love for power and self-aggrandizement got the better of him. Muffy, on the other hand, really does not have the insane megalomania of his father. However, he is clearly a corrupt and fanatical person, who hates modernism and would fit much better in a fanatical Taliban-like culture (which he has reproduced in the current crop of followers). The intense madness we see now was not present in the first half of SMB's reign but only arose slowly as his kids became older and took over the power, pushing their father aside as a mere titular head.

Hmm I think Mufaddal's megalomania knows no bounds. The pomp and ceremony he surrounds himself with has never been seen before.

I do not disagree with you.

However, one needs to see this in historical perspective. SMB severed ties with his father's shadow almost immediately after becoming da'i and then cultivated a cult around him, essentially elevating himself to the single focus of the whole community. The complete destruction of the position of the mazoon and mukasir occurred due to this. A decade or two into SMB's reign the community was brainwashed to believe that SMB was rather literally, Allah himself on Earth. (I have actually heard this said explicitly in numerous sabaaks I attended with senior bothers of SMB). He started to compare himself to Aql-e-Awaal (the first emanated being). He even explicitly started saying he was like Isa Nabi (Jesus) in that he could revive the dead, and would ask, "do you want me to show you miracles like Isa?" ("su me tamneh murdah ne zindah kari nee batauo?")

Muffy has not made these grotesque claims, at least yet. So he lives in his father's shadow, always putting his claims in context of what his father did. He always invokes his father's name in everything he does and shows that he is merely doing what SMB did. Incidentally, this could indicate a sub-conscious guilt as he clearly knows that the nass has not happened on him and so feels this desire to justify everything he does by invoking his dad's name. Of course, at this point the Bohras are on auto-pilot, trained over decades to scream and shout like mad monkeys whenever their da'i appears, and so the fanaticism, pomp and ceremony that surrounds Muffy. Hence, Muffy is basically enjoying the insane cult which was cultivated by his father. SMB, it seems to me, was probably singular in all the da'is to date in his megalomania and his extreme love of power and riches. I don't think even STS was that extreme. In fact, the latter actually liked scholars and cultivated them. SMB, on the other hand, was a power-hungry person, who only cared to surround himself with those who praised him non-stop, 24/7. SMB also took eating ziyaafats to unprecedented levels.

Anyway, this is only a matter of academic debate. Muffy is a mad man, a horribly corrupt tyrant who has taken an axe to the community.

Your analysis is upto the mark and exact. Great post.

Biradar,

Agreed, in the long view of history SMB is the bigger culprit no doubt and Muffy is merely continuing the cult - and with what vanity and shamelessness. But from what I have heard SMB was not that ambitious and not so sharp of mind or of cunning, so my guess is that this megalomania, this fashioning of Dai into a cult figure was not his doing alone. The transformation of the Dawat and the community has been systematically planned and executed -- and the Yusuf Najmuddin branch of the family had an important role to play in this. What are your thoughts?

Humsafar wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:56 pm Biradar,

Agreed, in the long view of history SMB is the bigger culprit no doubt and Muffy is merely continuing the cult - and with what vanity and shamelessness. But from what I have heard SMB was not that ambitious and not so sharp of mind or of cunning, so my guess is that this megalomania, this fashioning of Dai into a cult figure was not his doing alone. The transformation of the Dawat and the community has been systematically planned and executed -- and the Yusuf Najmuddin branch of the family had an important role to play in this. What are your thoughts?

It is very likely that the real culprit is Yusuf Najmuddin. I have said this many times before, as over a period of time it has emerged he was the person who engineered the current schism in the community, by sidelining the position of mazoon (which I think he coveted for himself and perhaps even expected to become mazoon). He also took over the training of Muffy which was then completed by his full brother Aliasgar Kalimuddin. These two people were likely the theorist behind the concepts which allowed Muffy and his brothers to dismiss the position of the mazoon and mukasir and take control of the dawaat themselves when they were old enough. Also, recall that Muffy is married to YN's daughter.

Also, clearly SMB was not as smart as his father. Whatever one may think of STS, he was a great scholar and a very capable administrator. SMB was much better at emotional manipulation and his appeal was to the emotions and not the intellect. This has caused serious problems in the community, for when one thinks from an emotional point of view rationality is thrown out of the window, and great injustices are perpetuated. Bohris have now been reduced to a weeping and screeching bunch of fanatics, with very little thought going through their mind, specially when their big mullah is concerned. Hence the total degradation of the community and its institution, the corruption and decadence we see. It is a truly sad state of affairs.

Whatever one may think of STS, he was a great scholar and a very capable administrator.

And a cunning Manipulator
Br Humsafar and Biradar
Why are you giving the pass to STS, who threw the dead body of Adamji Peerbohy's family on the street, Was it during STS time or SMB time?
Was it STS or SMB who took over Saifee Mahal-property of Adamjee Peerbohy and built the corrupt Empire?
Corruption of Dawat started from the time of STS, you can blame all YM all you want but
BUCK STOPS WITH STS WHO WAS THE DAI OF THE TIME

Brother SBM,
I don't think we are giving a free pass to STS. He of course is the original crook who laid the foundation of this corrupt empire. SMB built on that foundation, and I was trying to argue that SMB was not crafty and ambitious enough to create this cult around him on his own. His megalomania was designed and fed by Yusuf Najumuddin, and to an extent SMB just played along.

What is the use of all this discussion? Folks on this forum should rise above such pity gossips and live upto the claims of being progressive/enlightened by setting up trusts, welfare funds, schools and hospitals etc etc...

malgudidays wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:39 am What is the use of all this discussion? Folks on this forum should rise above such pity gossips and live upto the claims of being progressive/enlightened by setting up trusts, welfare funds, schools and hospitals etc etc...

This is not GOSSIP, there are many in our community who are not aware of true corrupt history of Dawat and they need to be reminded. This forum is also being visited by many Abdes/Amtes and many have learned about true intentions of Kothari Goons
As far as set up trusts and helping people. many on this forum are already doing that thru their Zakat, Sadaqah and private giving.

SBM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:22 am

malgudidays wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:39 am What is the use of all this discussion? Folks on this forum should rise above such pity gossips and live upto the claims of being progressive/enlightened by setting up trusts, welfare funds, schools and hospitals etc etc...

This is not GOSSIP, there are many in our community who are not aware of true corrupt history of Dawat and they need to be reminded. This forum is also being visited by many Abdes/Amtes and many have learned about true intentions of Kothari Goons
As far as set up trusts and helping people. many on this forum are already doing that thru their Zakat, Sadaqah and private giving.

So nothing centralized and concrete? and stop derogating very people you want to help. Calling people names does not attract them to your cause.. it only antagonises them even more...

stop derogating very people you want to help

Clarify my derogatory words for the people I want to help? except for Kothari Goons who are not looking for any help but they help themselves by looting and fooling Abdes/Amtes

So nothing centralized and concrete

And if there is any thing Centralized then Kothari Goons take over those trusts. And what is your point, why one needs a centralized system when many decentralized organizations are helping really deserving people

malgudidays wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:56 pm So nothing centralized and concrete? and stop derogating very people you want to help. Calling people names does not attract them to your cause.. it only antagonises them even more...

Come to Udaipur brother and we will show you solid and concrete (I'm not sure what you mean by centralized) institutions we have created. Clinics, schools, charities and trusts and welfare organisations. These institutions do not only help needy Bohras (reformist or otherwise) but also people from other communities. If you or anyone would like to contribute -- put money where your mouth is -- please let me know either here or through private message and I'll direct you to the right channels.
What you call gossip is an important part of history which we would do well to remember and remind each other from time to time so we do not forget and do not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Humsafar wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:24 pm

malgudidays wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:56 pm So nothing centralized and concrete? and stop derogating very people you want to help. Calling people names does not attract them to your cause.. it only antagonises them even more...

Come to Udaipur brother and we will show you solid and concrete (I'm not sure what you mean by centralized) institutions we have created. Clinics, schools, charities and trusts and welfare organisations. These institutions do not only help needy Bohras (reformist or otherwise) but also people from other communities. If you or anyone would like to contribute -- put money where your mouth is -- please let me know either here or through private message and I'll direct you to the right channels.
What you call gossip is an important part of history which we would do well to remember and remind each other from time to time so we do not forget and do not repeat the mistakes of the past.

What history are you talking about, If I am not wrong I just saw your post going gaga over recent post by Biradar, where he is even denying presence of Imam(as) in seclusion.

I wonder what you guys are doing on this forum when you do not even believe in Imamat.

SBUT Scam -- where is the accountability?

Bohra resident speaks out...

SBUT will bring down elephant of Mufaddal saifuddin.

any update from this video journalism