Syedana’s vision

[Muslim First]

A quote from:- http://akhbar.mumineen.org/1423/rajab_30.html

“It is indeed our Moula (tus) who is revealing new shanaat everyday that lay above the reach and vision of man, far beyond boundaries drawn by human beings. May Allah Subhanahu grant our Moula a long and prosperous life. Ameen

My comment:

Indeed ‘Syedana’ has become ‘demigod’ himself. He is no longer mere mortal.”

Look at this writer’s Duaa. He prays for long and prosperous life not for long spiritual life.

And how more prosperous 'Syedana' wants to become?

May Allah SWT protect Muslims from ‘Taghut’

[asif]

Few lines from Nazeer Akabarabadi's Banjar naama

"Qazzak ajal ka raste me jab bhala maar girayega,
Dhan, Daulat , Naati,pauta kya ek kunba kaam na aayega
Sab Thaat pada rah jayega jab laad chalega banjaara"

[huzaif]

Muslim First,

Today I have done special dua that u become paralysed within one year. May Allah fulfill my dua and may the enemies of Aqa Maula(tus) be ground to the dust spiritually. May they be subjected to the worst of torments in the hereafter for their ill-actions.

[asif]

Huzaif,
Is ur special dua procured from the same texts which gave u the info that there are 1029 stars in the sky? LOL.
Why don't u sit tonight & count those 1029 stars?
It will not take much time

[nausicaa]

hey huzaif,

How do you perform 'special' paralyzing duas? Just curious here but isn't it written somewhere in the Quran that "Do not speak ill even of your enemies". Do you believe God or Allah needs to be informed by you about MF's actions or he would remain ignorant of them? And you are arrogant enough to think that you will tell him the punishment and he will carry it out for you.

I do realize that Syedna's brand of religion is quite capable of shutting down rational thought among its believers but if you are going to be on this board at least give a few thoughts as to why you think MF is wrong rather than just trading insults.

-N

[Muslim First]

Cursing

Abu Darda narrated that Prophet SAW said:

When a person curses someone, the curse ascends to Heavan, where all the gates are closed against it. Then it descends to the earth and turns right and left. After finding no exit, it finds the one who has been cursed and attaches itself to him if he deserves it; but if he doesn't, it returns to one who uttered it.

Related by Abu Dawud

[joe_bloggs]

Hats off to Br huzaif for showing such creativity in cursing. Br huzaif, have you done some sort of crash course in cursing or something

[anajmi]

Huzaif,

One year is too long a time. Find a dua which will paralyze me in a day and I will prove it to you in a day how full of shit you and your syedna are.

[porus]

If this religion had heart in it, Sayedna would have taught his followers not to curse or wish ill on anybody. The Infinite does not respond to such entreaties; it responds only to messages of love. Remember your tasha'ud; it reads that only the pure belongs to Allah. Afflictions do not come from Allah, they are self-inflicted.

The fact that Bohras are so quick at cursing all and sundry shows that their religion has no heart in it. Nothing good will ever come out of breast-beating, shedding tears and cursing the slayes of Husain. Religion is just full of fears. That is no religion at all.

[Muslim First]

Well written Br. Porus

Maashah Allah

Wasalaam

[qiyam]

Nicely put Br. Porus and MuslimFirst,
I hope you both realize you go against both the Quran (surah Taubah/Barat) and the teachings of the Prophet with those statements.

Being tolerate of those who do not believe as you is one thing. Those who slander against your beliefs is another. For them...Allah says to curse them. If you don't believe..fine...at least do not slander.

[porus]

Br Qiyam,

Cursing all and sundry in the name of Islam is in fact a slander against Islam.

If you feel that Quran instructs you to curse enemies of Islam, then perhaps it is time you learned a bit more about many interpreters who see in all ayats of Quran nothing except a message of love for every being and everything.

Please start with basics. Teach your child to curse Yazid and tell him that is the way to paradise. What good does it do the child? What positive emotion does that cause to arise in the child?

Instead of being mouthpiece of religion with utterly discreditable practices, please enquire if what you do when you curse actually achieves anything for your fellow humans. If your interpretation of Quran falls short of giving you nothing but love for all mankind, including Yazid and Muawiya, then it may be time to abandon that interpretation.

By the way positive emotions are NOT fear, anger, arrogance, pride, lust, apathy, avarice, hatred, enmity, excusiveness and others associated with deadly sins.

[qiyam]

Dear Porus,

"Cursing all and sundry in the name of Islam is in fact a slander against Islam."

---Please reread my post...I qualified my entire statement with those curse Islam are to be curse...not just anyone I disagree with.

"If you feel that Quran instructs you to curse enemies of Islam, then perhaps it is time you learned a bit more about many interpreters who see in all ayats of Quran nothing except a message of love for every being and everything."

---Love is a subjective item...and is totally qualified in the Quran...based on every interpretator. The Quran teaching love for Allah..not for His enemies. The Quran love for your bretheren and those who may not believe in your faith but do not harm you....not those who hate your fate. I love my sunni bretheren...though they don't adhere to my tariqah. But a majority also don't ridicle my tariqah...and this is the difference.

"Please start with basics. Teach your child to curse Yazid and tell him that is the way to paradise. What good does it do the child? What positive emotion does that cause to arise in the child?"

---It does aboutly no good..unless you explain why you should curse him and what he has done. This will direct the child between right and wrong...truth and falsehood, which was the entire principal idea behind Imam Husayn. The ashaba of Imam Husayn died the same way as the ashaba of Shimr in Karbala. It was the reason and belief behind their death that makes one group martyrs and the others murders.

"Instead of being mouthpiece of religion with utterly discreditable practices, please enquire if what you do when you curse actually achieves anything for your fellow humans."

---My examples are very evident...even within my own relatives. I look at my family members who curse Sayedna...and the sheer pity of their lives with regard to adhering to Islam (majority drink, smoke, married christian, or became christian themselves)..and my family members who support Sayedna.

"If your interpretation of Quran falls short of giving you nothing but love for all mankind, including Yazid and Muawiya, then it may be time to abandon that interpretation."

---If your end goal is loving everyone...whether they respect Allah and His commandments or not...then why believe in Allah! Why preach Islam if you accept the kafirs who curse His name, the Prophet's name, or the Awliyas names. Aql is the key to this life and the hereafter. Part of Aql is love...not the other way around.

[porus]

Dear Qiyam,

Highest value for a human is to offer unconditional love to everyone and everything.

Clear understanding of Allah will require annihilation of ego, which is false identity for humans. All this cursing is ego-gratification and leads you away from the truth that Allah is all-inclusive. Sayedna's religion is ego-gratification and no prescription for an individual's search for truth or meaning.

Like poets say, Allah is Love.

There is no unity in Bohra or any other group exclusiveness. Disunity is a reflection of fractured sense of Tawhid.

[Humsafar]

porus,
Do you expect this priest-ridden community to understand your plea for transcendental, unconditional love? Mired in money and material pleasures, what do these mullahs and their followers know about love or even religion.

Religion for them is an instrument and no more. They quote the text of the Quran but completely miss its spirit. Cursing and name-calling is part of their "religious" training. Hurling fatwas at enemies is their self-defence. In terms of the larger questions of being and living, they have nothing to offer. All that they are good at is to trap hapless believers in endless rituals devoid of context and meaning.

As for meaning and purpose of life, if at all they ever address the question, all they can offer is a dogged devotion to Sayedna.

For them Sayedna is love. And given the kind of Sayedna they have, the quality of their love is self-evident.

[qiyam]

Dear Porus,
You have conflicting statement...which explains your conflicting argument.

Tawhid is the total submission to Allah...both in love, adherance, respect, with every bit of our being.

This goes against your statement:
"Highest value for a human is to offer unconditional love to everyone and everything."

We, as muslim, are striving to please Allah..not humans. This includes disassociating ourselves from those who HATE Allah. Your view is humanistic and you are entitled to it. It is not Islamic though...so don't sell it as so.

[Khairan]

There is a dangerous dogmatism behind feeling righteous enough to wish damnation and hellfire down upon another person, and it is such dogmatism that has seen so many bloody conflicts in the name of religion and God.

Why does delivering curses accomplish anything useful? If it is done to prove the "piety" and devotion of the curser, why would that person not use the same breath to say a prayer, or wish well to his friends or relatives?

What is the point?

[raheel]

Well br hozaif and all supporters of aqa moula tus.

This site is a place of bafoons.. actually i did not know but when i was browsing thru lycos i came to this site and found that dushman of dawaath are creating such site and trying to brain wash people.. it is no use to argue with them ..

You ask your self one question and then you will never ever feel like coming to this site.. The question is HOW MANY DAWOODI BOHRAS IN THE LAST 30 YEARS HAVE diverted from fatemi dawaath led by moula tus... your answer will indeed be VERY FEW... and those who have converted them selves to progressive bohras have also come back on track by retaking their misaaq on the hands of aqa moula tus...

I was in galiakot at that time..... there were about 350 people who came for ziyarath after their misaaq and cried alot infront of the amil their saying that they are happy that their eyes are now opened...

Many of these people are now living in udaipur and many more are living in fatehnager..

This message to all those people who does not believe me... Go to fatehnager which is 60 kms or may be 70 kms far from udaipur. go to everybody's house there and there are people who have now left these DUSHMANS AND ALSO ENGINEER and has joined back on the right track ...

I think that there is no use to argue with these guys... But you must visit to say lanaath on them ......

I Hope this answers all your questions...

There was one guy whom i see in ashara.. he was with engineer .. he then came to moula tus and then begged for mercy caused he realised his mistake and then he was welcomed... He sometimes reciteds nohas and marasiyahs in asharaas as well. i have not only heard of him but have personaly met him and heard about him from his own mouth ..

I think all this will answer your questions...

i would like to end up here by saying

dawath na dashmano rahe jalta ane panchee...
sijjin ma hazaro waras lag azaab che...

regards
abde sayedna tus( we call our selfs as moula tus's ghulam because we feel proud in his ghulami)
Raheel

[asif]

Gr8 .Moron Huzaif now u have a company . Moron Raheel the co Nobel laureate.
I will tell u onething . Whenever I want to relax from my work ,I just search ur posts. They are so entertaining . Ur curses elvate my spirits.
Man who taught u all these curses? Are these taught during innumerable 'Matam ' sessions during Muharrram ,Ramzan ,Marriage ceremonies etc ?
U illogical fools,Are u all totally devoid of grey matter?

[asif]

Reason for Huzaif getting Nobel prize in Physics

Below is the post from Moron Huzaif in the topic "Hunting"

asif,
I curse u for doubting the Dai of Imam uz Zaman.
I also do baddua for u that may u take the form of a snake or a pig very soon.

Wow Huzaif,
That is called transmutation in science. Man , If I turn into pig /Snake then you will definitely get the Nobel prize in Physics.Remember Junta , We have a Nobel Laureate in making.
Hssh Hssss /Grunt Grunt ,I am already getting reptilian/piggy tendencies. HO Ho .LOL.
"

[Muslim First]

Br. Huzaif

Please ponder this

10:107
Wa iy yamsaskalla_hu bi durrin fala_ ka_syifa lahu_ illa_ huw(a), wa iy yuridka bi khairin fala_ ra_dda lifadlih(i), yusibu bihi may yasya_'u min 'iba_dih(i), wa huwal gafu_rur rahim(u).

(Yusuf Ali) If Allah do touch thee with hurt there is none can remove it but He: if He do design some benefit for thee there is none can keep back His favor: He causeth it to reach whomsoever of His servants He pleaseth. And He is the Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 1489

1489 Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Even when we suffer under trials and tribulations, it is for our good, and no one can remove them except He, when, in His Plan, He sees it to be best for all concerned. On the other hand, there is no power that can intercept His blessings and favors, and His bounty flows freely when we are worthy, and often when we are not worthy of it.

(Malik) If Allah afflicts you with a calamity, none can remove it but He; and if He intends to bestow a favor, none can withhold His bounty. He bestows it on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; He is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

Br. Huzaif

Your curse was on 2nd of Shaban al-Karim 1423H (October 8, 2002). do you want me to get in touch with you on 2nd of Shaban al-Karim 1424H.
or you want six extra days for the magic to work and me report to you about my health on October 8,2003 (Inshah-Allah)?

Wasalaam

(P.S. Don't rub that magic stick so often.)

[raheel]

All you guys out there.

you know !!!!!111 it is not common for any relegion or leader to have dushmans.. jafer ni fithnath, chanda bhai case, sons of great pir bhai and many more...

When allah subhanahu asked people to bow infront of adam at that time also a dushman raised his head and said he is not going to do it..

Muslameen around the globe belive this that there are dushmans around.. like we have engineer today....

Now engineer is the hybrid of those thre shaitaans in jamea..... So we can say that dushmans will do dushmani but there is no use of writing here anything and telling them these things..

there are many things which were false and said here. Like tamim bhai saheb in jeddah created many problems.. well that is not true.. this is because tamim bhai saheb has never ever stayed in jeddah ... tamim bhai saheb was in madina . again if you dont believe me then ask anyone living in saudi arabia .. they will tell you ...

Khuda ni laanaath once again on engineer.

Abde sayedna tus
Raheel

[raheel]

My last main actually meant that it is common to have dushmans in our relegion............

[porus]

"Aql is the key to this life and the hereafter. Part of Aql is love...not the other way around."

Running away with dogma again, Qiyam?

Aql is Reason, a very late development in human evolution, identified as evolution of neo-cortex.

Love pre-existed everything. As I said, mystics and poet have concluded that Allah is Love itself. They find love even in those creatures who have no cortex.

Let me quote Iqbal

"Jo Aql ka hai ghulam,
woh dil na kar qabool."

[qiyam]

Dear Porus,
What is your theory based on? Is it not true that without your aql (reason) you would be able to understand what love is to begin with? Without aql...you couldn't determine between love and hate, sincerity and contempt, etc.

[asif]

Porus,
One verse from Khumar Barabankvi ,I quote ,though I have not read all the posts completely.
"Aql aur dil apni apni kahen jab Khumar,
Aql ki Suniye,Dil ka kaha keejiye"

[porus]

That was a very apt and excellent verse, Asif.

On this board, we may talk about Aql in two senses. One, which we can ignore as having absolutely no relevance to humans is the sense associated with the Ismaili Creation Myth, adopted and adapted from Greek philosopher Plato. Its only relevance is that scholars like to engage in that futile myth to show how 'clever' the Ismaili Imams were.

The relevant sense is to understand Aql as human reasoning faculty which is processes used to arrive at logical conclusion about everyday affairs. Application of logic requires premises, which are assumptions and dogmas which have been adopted or inculcated since childhood. Hence, although one can accurately apply logic, one can come to differing conclusions about which actions are appropriate.

Intuition, which is arguably a higher faculty than Reason generally serves us better. Most decisions are based on that 'inner feeling" which can cause havoc if not examined. Religious "teachers" want to install their versions of this inner operating system on people so they do their (priests') bidding.

Unexamined dogmas are the real culprit.

Love is part of that inner feeling, intution and emotion. It is primordial. A Sufi tradition quotes Prophet as saying that Creation is manifestation of Allah's love for Himself. Allah is quoted as saying "Creation is me, that is my love, made manifest. I wanted to recognize and know myself and Creation is my reflection and reflection of my essence which is Love".

Reason is Logic and many different types of logic are possible. A college math 101 will reveal that to everyone. What drives humans is emotion and logic generally is used to justify emotion rather than the other way around.

[qiyam]

Dear Porus,
The obvious thing you missed is you define aql not based on its own definition...but what you've been taught is its definition. Aql is not just reason as you link only with logic. Aql is cognotive thinking which includes intuition. The act of thought is the Aql we're talking about..not just reason.

Regarding ismaili and greek philosphy...this is the weak argument of the one who want to tie religious theology to seculiar philosphy. I would remind you the comparison are very weak. If you look at the greek philosphy and ismaili islamic thought..they are not close. Let look at it from two point:

1. The teachings of the Prophet and all the Imams are linear regarding ismaili theology regarding Allah, creation, emination, etc. So it wrong to say the Imams adopted something from any secular philosphers, because theology correlated with the previous Imams to the Prophet who no contact with such philosphers.

2. If you look all philosphy...greek as you mention has some similarities to Ismaili theology. It also has vast decrepencies against it...the foremost being the belief in a superior being that enacts creation. Many orientalist that say Ismaili adopted the creator and predessor from secular philosphy. Some of them even say these concepts were adopted, as you have eluded. This is completely false. In the writing of the Ismaili Dais you will see in commenting on these philosphers like Plato and such...that their philosphies actually profess tawhid and iklas as the Ismailis relate it...but in many aspects fail in it as well. It is better to understand that these philosphers discovered based on their intuition and logic the natural inclinations placed in every human by Allah for establishing tawhid. They just didn't have the traditions of the Prophet and Imams to tell them from the start.

This can also be said of Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, even Shamanism. All have many keys aspects that Ismailis profess...but they also differ greatly. If you ask a hindu if they believe in ONE GOD...they will say yes. Buddhist have the same moral and manners upliftment and control as Ismaili profess...yet they don't believe in a supreme being of creation.

[porus]

Dear Qiyam,

I am not concerned so much with definitions as the mechanics by which aql and love (ishq) operate in ordinary human functioning.

Cognitive thinking is just thinking except that a person applying it becomes aware of more (more than meets the eye, that is) distinctions among various concepts. He, thereby, handles his world better. A common example is that for what appears as snow to us appears as one of the seventeen distinct types of 'snow' to an Eskimo. He has seventeen different words for our 'snow', which makes him adapt better to the conditions he is living under. So, more distinctions you are able to make, the better you become.

Love is pre-cognitive and operates out of Aql. Aql may dominate it. Take for instance, love that spontaneously arises between a Hindu girl and a Muslim boy. They may both feel that universal emotion but they may temper their emotion when they find they belong to different religions.

Love retains its mystic and mystery; and poets, writers and mystics over the ages have not been able to determine what love really is. It is felt but defies reason. Hence mystery remains and monuments are built to love in every generation.

Aql is no mystery at all. You can learn to reason quite well.

The reason why "Aql" with capital A has become so entwined an enamoured of Ismaili theologians is entirely connected with the Creation Myth. It is something that populace will not understand, not question and think it is a great foundation of Ismaili philosophy. It is nothing of the kind. The word or the concept it represents has absolutely no relevance to humans. Whereas they will continue to sing about love found, lost and re-discovered for ever and ever.

[raheel]

Well these are followers of engineers. that is why there Aql is locked and the key is lost.

so that is why they dont know how to use and that is why they keep blabbering here and their