.
Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah sent eighty men, including `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, Ja`far bin Abi Talib, `Abdullah bin `Urfutah, `Uthman bin Maz`un, Abu Musa, and others, to An-Najashi. The Quraysh sent `Amr bin Al-`As and `Umarah bin Al-Walid with a gift for An-Najashi. When they, `Amr and `Umarah, came to An-Najashi, they prostrated before him and stood to his right and left. `Amr and `Umarah said, "Some of our cousins migrated to your land; they have abandoned us and our religion.'' An-Najashi said, "Where are they'' They said, "They are in your land, so send for them,'' so An-Najashi summoned the Muslims. Ja`far said to the Muslims, "I will be your speaker today.'' So, the Muslims followed Ja`far and when he entered on the king he did not prostrate after greeting him. They said to Ja`far, "Why do you not prostrate before the king'' Ja`far said, " We only prostrate for Allah , the Exalted and Most Honored.'' They said, "Why'' He said, " Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah , the Exalted and Most Honored. He also ordered to perform prayer and give charity.'' `Amr bin Al-`As said, "They contradict your creed about `Isa, son of Maryam.'' The king asked, "What do you say about `Isa and his mother Maryam'' Ja`far said, "We only say what Allah said about him, that he is Allah's Word, a soul created by Allah and sent down to the honorable virgin who was not touched by a man nor bearing children before.'' An-Najashi lifted a straw of wood and said, "O Ethiopians, monks and priests! By Allah, what they say about `Isa is no more than what we say about him, not even a difference that equals this straw. You are welcomed among us, and greetings to him who sent you. I bear witness that he is Allah's Messenger whom we read about in the Injil. He is the Prophet who `Isa, son of Maryam, foretold the good news about his advent. Live wherever you wish. By Allah, had I not been entrusted with the responsibilities of kingship, I would have gone to him, so that I could be honored by carrying his slippers and his water for ablution.'' The king ordered that the gifts of the idolators be returned to them. `Abdullah bin Mas`ud soon returned and later on participated in the battle of Badr. He said that when the Prophet received the news that An-Najashi died, he invoked Allah to forgive him.
Ahmad 1:461 Tafseer Ibn Katheer Volume 9 Pages 619-620
Also at: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=61&tid=53645
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Qadam Bosi revisited
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
see qadam bosi
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgibin/UB ... p=2#000051
see sajad as'sukar
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgibin/UB ... 302#000000
the relevant quotes from me are in there.
Tasfir ibn Kathir was a stauch disciple of Ibn Taymiyyah....whom majority of sunni and shiah consider corrupt in aqidah.
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgibin/UB ... p=2#000051
see sajad as'sukar
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgibin/UB ... 302#000000
the relevant quotes from me are in there.
Tasfir ibn Kathir was a stauch disciple of Ibn Taymiyyah....whom majority of sunni and shiah consider corrupt in aqidah.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Do not do ‘sajdah’ to the sun and the moon, but do ‘sajdah’ to that Allah, Who Created them, if you really are indeed His worshippers.
Chapter 41 Surah Fusselat verse 37
Chapter 41 Surah Fusselat verse 37
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
And don’t they observe anything created by Allah: how it casts its shadow right and left, doing its ‘sajdah’ to Allah Alone? Thus do all things express their humility to Allah. All the animate creation in the heavens and the earth and all the angels do ‘sajdah’ in adoration to Allah Alone. They do not show any arrogance at all, and fear their Lord, Who is above them, and do whatever they are bidden by Allah.
Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 48-50:
Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 48-50:
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Muslim First
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Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
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Br. qiyam
It does not matter where this Hadith (Ahmad 1:461) was mentioned. Point here is prove that this Hadith does not exist or it has weak insad or it is favbricated.
Prove me your point that Qadam Bosi was apporoved by prophet of Allah. I have given you a Hadith which forbids Propstration. (You can not kiss feet without doing prostration).
Wasalaam
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Br. qiyam
It does not matter where this Hadith (Ahmad 1:461) was mentioned. Point here is prove that this Hadith does not exist or it has weak insad or it is favbricated.
Prove me your point that Qadam Bosi was apporoved by prophet of Allah. I have given you a Hadith which forbids Propstration. (You can not kiss feet without doing prostration).
Wasalaam
.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear Abdulla,
Do not quote ayats of the Quran out of context to make your point. Neither the ayat applies to this discussion. Remember it was the angels who first did sajdah to Adam Nabi. It was Iblis who was cast to hell for not.
Dear MuslimFirst,
If you went to the original threads...I quote both hadith and ayats of the Quran...that clearly allow it by the actions of a Prophet.
Do not quote ayats of the Quran out of context to make your point. Neither the ayat applies to this discussion. Remember it was the angels who first did sajdah to Adam Nabi. It was Iblis who was cast to hell for not.
Dear MuslimFirst,
If you went to the original threads...I quote both hadith and ayats of the Quran...that clearly allow it by the actions of a Prophet.
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
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Br qiyam
AS
" Remember it was the angels who first did sajdah to Adam Nabi. It was Iblis who was cast to hell for not. "
As I remember Allah asked Angeles and Iblis to to Sajud to Adam Nabi. Do you see difference? (You will never see it!).
" I quote both hadith and ayats of the Quran...that clearly allow it by the actions of a Prophet."
Please do
Wasallam
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Br qiyam
AS
" Remember it was the angels who first did sajdah to Adam Nabi. It was Iblis who was cast to hell for not. "
As I remember Allah asked Angeles and Iblis to to Sajud to Adam Nabi. Do you see difference? (You will never see it!).
" I quote both hadith and ayats of the Quran...that clearly allow it by the actions of a Prophet."
Please do
Wasallam
.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear MuslimFirst,
I do see the difference...Allah COMMANDED the angels to do sajdah to Adam Nabi. Do you see that Allah does not ordered Hhis creations to something that is haram or shirk? If sajdah to Adam Nabi was shirk...would Allah command His angels to perform it!? Do you get the point?
Again look at the referenced sites...I know your not that lazy. The first post show the ayats and references.
I do see the difference...Allah COMMANDED the angels to do sajdah to Adam Nabi. Do you see that Allah does not ordered Hhis creations to something that is haram or shirk? If sajdah to Adam Nabi was shirk...would Allah command His angels to perform it!? Do you get the point?
Again look at the referenced sites...I know your not that lazy. The first post show the ayats and references.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
One further explaination...the sajdah was of thankfulness for the creation of Adam Nabi by Allah...not just a action of prostration. This is why Iblis said he would not do sajdah as'sukar for something he thought was less worthy then him.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
The ‘Shariah’ revealed to Prophet Mohamed (saws) ‘sajdah’ is a rite of worship and the only being who deserves to be prostrated to, is the Lord of the Worlds and no one else.
When Hadrat Ali (r.a.) became the Ameer ul Mu’mineen, some people who loved and respected him beyond imagination, came to Ali, and said that they wanted to prostrate themselves to him. Ali forbade them in strong terms, but they would not listen. It has been report that Hadrat Ali (r.a.) rebuked them, and put them in prison, but they would not budge from their belief of wanting to do ‘sajdah’ to Hadrat Ali (r.a.). It has been reported in some narrations that ultimately Hadrat Ali (r.a.) sentenced them to death!
When Hadrat Ali (r.a.) became the Ameer ul Mu’mineen, some people who loved and respected him beyond imagination, came to Ali, and said that they wanted to prostrate themselves to him. Ali forbade them in strong terms, but they would not listen. It has been report that Hadrat Ali (r.a.) rebuked them, and put them in prison, but they would not budge from their belief of wanting to do ‘sajdah’ to Hadrat Ali (r.a.). It has been reported in some narrations that ultimately Hadrat Ali (r.a.) sentenced them to death!
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear Abdulla,
there is a huge difference between those that worshiped Ali as a deity in sajdah to those that do sajdah in thankfulness to Allah for the person in front of them. This is why Ali rebuke them..they were worshiping him! Would you think of Prophet Yusuf who allowed his family to do sujud in thankfulness to Allah for him as allowing shirk??
Again the act of sajdah (prostration)..in and in itself is not worship. It is the duah and niyyat you have when performing sajdah that define the purpose of the prostration. If this weren't the case, than every time I stand (qiyam) would be an act of worship...which it is not.
there is a huge difference between those that worshiped Ali as a deity in sajdah to those that do sajdah in thankfulness to Allah for the person in front of them. This is why Ali rebuke them..they were worshiping him! Would you think of Prophet Yusuf who allowed his family to do sujud in thankfulness to Allah for him as allowing shirk??
Again the act of sajdah (prostration)..in and in itself is not worship. It is the duah and niyyat you have when performing sajdah that define the purpose of the prostration. If this weren't the case, than every time I stand (qiyam) would be an act of worship...which it is not.
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Muslim First
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Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
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Br. qiyam
Please read this:
Obedience to the Prophet
Abu Hurayrah reported Prophet SAW said (Recorded in Al-Bukhari)
Whoe ever obays me, obays Allah and whoevere disobays me, disobays Allah
Abu Hurayrah reported that Prophet SAW said:(Recorded in Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Do not ask me about that which I do not mention to you. [Some of] Those before you were ruined by their habit of asking too many questions and not following their prophets. When I forbid you anything, keep away from it altogether; and when I prescribe something for you, carry it out as much as possible.
Now I have posted authentic Hadith in my first post of this topicin which prophet has said:
Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah
Prosration is Prostration.
It does not make Damn difference if somebody lebles it as Saja-us-shukr.There is no such thing as Prostration of Thanks.
I hope some day you will realise the error, and also hope that it is not too late.
Wasalaam
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Br. qiyam
Please read this:
Obedience to the Prophet
Abu Hurayrah reported Prophet SAW said (Recorded in Al-Bukhari)
Whoe ever obays me, obays Allah and whoevere disobays me, disobays Allah
Abu Hurayrah reported that Prophet SAW said:(Recorded in Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Do not ask me about that which I do not mention to you. [Some of] Those before you were ruined by their habit of asking too many questions and not following their prophets. When I forbid you anything, keep away from it altogether; and when I prescribe something for you, carry it out as much as possible.
Now I have posted authentic Hadith in my first post of this topicin which prophet has said:
Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah
Prosration is Prostration.
It does not make Damn difference if somebody lebles it as Saja-us-shukr.There is no such thing as Prostration of Thanks.
I hope some day you will realise the error, and also hope that it is not too late.
Wasalaam
.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear MuslimFirst,
I hope someday you will realize how little you understand why you do what you do. I guess some will never understand, even your own alims do. I keep referencing such a limited source of info...without realizing the larger body of knowledge even within just the sunni ulema.
All the ulema say your salat is VOID without the proper niyyat (intention). So you can perform a thousand salat (which include standing, prostrating, sitting, etc) and it is not counted by Allah without a niyyat. This is what the Prophet taught...so maybe you should take your own advice...so that you don't make ignorant statements like "Prosration is Prostration"! A prostration in worship or praise of Allah is not the same as a person who perform prostration without any intent.
You've based your entire argument on one hadith that isn't even classified as sahih...while I quoted and entire event from the Quran regarding Prophet Yusuf and his family.
I hope someday you will realize how little you understand why you do what you do. I guess some will never understand, even your own alims do. I keep referencing such a limited source of info...without realizing the larger body of knowledge even within just the sunni ulema.
All the ulema say your salat is VOID without the proper niyyat (intention). So you can perform a thousand salat (which include standing, prostrating, sitting, etc) and it is not counted by Allah without a niyyat. This is what the Prophet taught...so maybe you should take your own advice...so that you don't make ignorant statements like "Prosration is Prostration"! A prostration in worship or praise of Allah is not the same as a person who perform prostration without any intent.
You've based your entire argument on one hadith that isn't even classified as sahih...while I quoted and entire event from the Quran regarding Prophet Yusuf and his family.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
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Niya!
So I can do sujud so long as ther is no Niya.
Un-adultrated, Un-Islamic BS.
Wasalaam
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Niya!
So I can do sujud so long as ther is no Niya.
Un-adultrated, Un-Islamic BS.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear MuslimFirst,
Read my post again...yes you can do sujud without niyyat of worship...just like you can stand, sit, squat, etc. without niyyat of worship. This is why a person can prayer sitting in chair or laying on their back...as long as they have the niyyat of worship. The person's prayer is valid..though sujud isn't done.
Read my post again...yes you can do sujud without niyyat of worship...just like you can stand, sit, squat, etc. without niyyat of worship. This is why a person can prayer sitting in chair or laying on their back...as long as they have the niyyat of worship. The person's prayer is valid..though sujud isn't done.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
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From Commentary on 12:100
Ibn Katheer Volume 5 Pages 210-212
Also see:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=12&tid=25201
12:100. And he raised his parents to the `Arsh and they fell down before him prostrate. And he said: "O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream aforetime! My Lord has made it come true! He was indeed good to me, when He took me out of the prison, and brought you (all here) out of the bedouin life, after Shaytan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Certainly, my Lord is the Most Courteous and Kind unto whom He wills. Truly, He! Only He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.
Yusuf welcomes His Parents; His Dream comes True
Allah states that Ya`qub went to Yusuf in Egypt. Yusuf had asked his brothers to bring all of their family, and they all departed their area and left Kana`an to Egypt. When Yusuf received news of their approach to Egypt, he went out to receive them. The king ordered the princes and notable people to go out in the receiving party with Yusuf to meet Allah's Prophet Ya`qub, peace be upon him. It is said that the king also went out with them to meet Ya`qub. Yusuf said to his family, after they entered unto him and he took them to himself,
(and said: "Enter Egypt, if Allah wills, in security.'')
He said to them, `enter Egypt', meaning, `reside in Egypt', and added, `if Allah wills, in security', in reference to the hardship and famine that they suffered. Allah said next,
(and he took his parents to himself)
As-Suddi and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that his parents were his father and maternal aunt, as his mother had died long ago. Muhammad bin Ishaq and Ibn Jarir At-Tabari said, "His father and mother were both alive.'' Ibn Jarir added, "There is no evidence that his mother had died before then. Rather, the apparent words of the Qur'an testify that she was alive.'' This opinion has the apparent and suitable meaning that this story testifies to. Allah said next,
And he raised his parents to Al-'Arsh)
he raised them to his bedstead where he sat, according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid and several others. Allah said,
(and they fell down before him prostrate.)
Yusuf's parents and brothers prostrated before him, and they were eleven men,
(And he said: "O my father! This is the Ta'wil (interpretation)
of my dream aforetime...''),
in reference to the dream that he narrated to his father before,
(I saw (in a dream) eleven stars...)
In the laws of these and previous Prophets, it was allowed for the people to prostrate before the men of authority, when they met them. This practice was allowed in the law of Adam until the law of `Isa, peace be upon them, but was later prohibited in our law. Islam made prostration exclusively for Allah Alone, the Exalted and Most Honored. The implication of this statement was collected from Qatadah and other scholars. [At-Tabari 16:269]
When Mu`adh bin Jabal visited the Sham area, he found them prostrating before their priests. When he returned (to Al-Madinah), he prostrated before the Messenger of Allah , who asked him,
**** What is this, O, Mu`adh ****
Mu`adh said, "I saw that they prostrate before their priests. However, you, O Messenger of Allah, deserve more to be prostrated before.'' The Messenger said,
*** If I were to order anyone to prostrate before anyone else (among the creation), I would have ordered the wife to prostrate before her husband because of the enormity of his right on her. *** [Ibn-Majah 1:595]
Therefore, this practice was allowed in previous laws, as we stated. This is why they (Ya`qub and his wife and eleven sons) prostrated before Yusuf, who said at that time, [
From Commentary on 12:100
Ibn Katheer Volume 5 Pages 210-212
Also see:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=12&tid=25201
12:100. And he raised his parents to the `Arsh and they fell down before him prostrate. And he said: "O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream aforetime! My Lord has made it come true! He was indeed good to me, when He took me out of the prison, and brought you (all here) out of the bedouin life, after Shaytan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Certainly, my Lord is the Most Courteous and Kind unto whom He wills. Truly, He! Only He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.
Yusuf welcomes His Parents; His Dream comes True
Allah states that Ya`qub went to Yusuf in Egypt. Yusuf had asked his brothers to bring all of their family, and they all departed their area and left Kana`an to Egypt. When Yusuf received news of their approach to Egypt, he went out to receive them. The king ordered the princes and notable people to go out in the receiving party with Yusuf to meet Allah's Prophet Ya`qub, peace be upon him. It is said that the king also went out with them to meet Ya`qub. Yusuf said to his family, after they entered unto him and he took them to himself,
(and said: "Enter Egypt, if Allah wills, in security.'')
He said to them, `enter Egypt', meaning, `reside in Egypt', and added, `if Allah wills, in security', in reference to the hardship and famine that they suffered. Allah said next,
(and he took his parents to himself)
As-Suddi and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that his parents were his father and maternal aunt, as his mother had died long ago. Muhammad bin Ishaq and Ibn Jarir At-Tabari said, "His father and mother were both alive.'' Ibn Jarir added, "There is no evidence that his mother had died before then. Rather, the apparent words of the Qur'an testify that she was alive.'' This opinion has the apparent and suitable meaning that this story testifies to. Allah said next,
And he raised his parents to Al-'Arsh)
he raised them to his bedstead where he sat, according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid and several others. Allah said,
(and they fell down before him prostrate.)
Yusuf's parents and brothers prostrated before him, and they were eleven men,
(And he said: "O my father! This is the Ta'wil (interpretation)
of my dream aforetime...''),
in reference to the dream that he narrated to his father before,
(I saw (in a dream) eleven stars...)
In the laws of these and previous Prophets, it was allowed for the people to prostrate before the men of authority, when they met them. This practice was allowed in the law of Adam until the law of `Isa, peace be upon them, but was later prohibited in our law. Islam made prostration exclusively for Allah Alone, the Exalted and Most Honored. The implication of this statement was collected from Qatadah and other scholars. [At-Tabari 16:269]
When Mu`adh bin Jabal visited the Sham area, he found them prostrating before their priests. When he returned (to Al-Madinah), he prostrated before the Messenger of Allah , who asked him,
**** What is this, O, Mu`adh ****
Mu`adh said, "I saw that they prostrate before their priests. However, you, O Messenger of Allah, deserve more to be prostrated before.'' The Messenger said,
*** If I were to order anyone to prostrate before anyone else (among the creation), I would have ordered the wife to prostrate before her husband because of the enormity of his right on her. *** [Ibn-Majah 1:595]
Therefore, this practice was allowed in previous laws, as we stated. This is why they (Ya`qub and his wife and eleven sons) prostrated before Yusuf, who said at that time, [
Re: Qadam Bosi revisited
Dear MuslimFirst,
What non-scense are you making now. The actions of Prophet Yusuf are recounted in the Quran by Allah and is not rebuked or changed in the Quran. Nor did Muhammad Rasullah make a statement saying that it was wrong.
As for at'Tabari..he quoted the opinions of scholars not his own for that statement...nor a hadith to support it.
Now for you quotes from ibn Majah..the complete quote is as follows (BOTH OF WHICH ARE QUOTED IN THE REFERENCED THREAD IN MY FIRST POST):
Narrated by Hazrath Buraida:
On seeing this the bedoin wanted to do Sajada to which Rasul Allah (saws) replied "If I would have given permission to do Sajada, it would have been to a women in respect of her husband". On hearing this the bedoin requested "at least can I kiss the holy feet and Hands" and the permission was granted.
related in al-Qadi Iyad's ash-Shifaa', 1:299 and al-Bazzaar's Musnad, 3:49. It is also related by ibn Abi Shayba (Book of Adab, Chapter entitled A Man Kissing Another Man's Hand When He greets Him), Tirmidhi (Book of Adab) who declared it hasan sahih, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Maja (Book of Adab), and al-Hakim who declared it sahih.
Another hadith relating the same info.:
Abu Dawood, Book 41, Number 5206:
Narrated al-Wazi' ibn Zari':
Umm Aban, daughter of al-Wazi' ibn Zari', quoting his grandfather, who was a member of the deputation of AbdulQays, said: When we came to Medina, we raced to be first to dismount and kiss the hand and foot of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). But al-Mundhir al-Ashajj waited until he came to the bundle of his clothes. He put on his two garments and then he went to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him).
He said to him: You have two characteristics which Allah likes: gentleness and deliberation.
He asked: Have I acquired them or has Allah has created (them) my nature? He replied: No, Allah has created (them) in your nature.
He then said: Praise be to Allah Who has created in my nature two characteristics which Allah and His Apostle like.
What non-scense are you making now. The actions of Prophet Yusuf are recounted in the Quran by Allah and is not rebuked or changed in the Quran. Nor did Muhammad Rasullah make a statement saying that it was wrong.
As for at'Tabari..he quoted the opinions of scholars not his own for that statement...nor a hadith to support it.
Now for you quotes from ibn Majah..the complete quote is as follows (BOTH OF WHICH ARE QUOTED IN THE REFERENCED THREAD IN MY FIRST POST):
Narrated by Hazrath Buraida:
On seeing this the bedoin wanted to do Sajada to which Rasul Allah (saws) replied "If I would have given permission to do Sajada, it would have been to a women in respect of her husband". On hearing this the bedoin requested "at least can I kiss the holy feet and Hands" and the permission was granted.
related in al-Qadi Iyad's ash-Shifaa', 1:299 and al-Bazzaar's Musnad, 3:49. It is also related by ibn Abi Shayba (Book of Adab, Chapter entitled A Man Kissing Another Man's Hand When He greets Him), Tirmidhi (Book of Adab) who declared it hasan sahih, al-Nasa'i, Ibn Maja (Book of Adab), and al-Hakim who declared it sahih.
Another hadith relating the same info.:
Abu Dawood, Book 41, Number 5206:
Narrated al-Wazi' ibn Zari':
Umm Aban, daughter of al-Wazi' ibn Zari', quoting his grandfather, who was a member of the deputation of AbdulQays, said: When we came to Medina, we raced to be first to dismount and kiss the hand and foot of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). But al-Mundhir al-Ashajj waited until he came to the bundle of his clothes. He put on his two garments and then he went to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him).
He said to him: You have two characteristics which Allah likes: gentleness and deliberation.
He asked: Have I acquired them or has Allah has created (them) my nature? He replied: No, Allah has created (them) in your nature.
He then said: Praise be to Allah Who has created in my nature two characteristics which Allah and His Apostle like.