alavi bohra

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alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:21 pm

Any comments on Alavi Bohra?
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:00 am

I wonder whether these are the Alvi Bohras!!<br>********************************************<p>The deceased Syrian President Hafez Assad's family comes from the Alawite religious minority which, though considered a sect of Shiite Islam, bears little resemblance to Islam in doctrine or practice. The secretive faith -- in name indicating followers of Ali, son-in-law of Islam's founding Prophet Mohammed -- also combines elements of Christianity and astrology. It is believed to date to the 9th century.<br>(...)<p>Alawites, unlike Muslims and Christians, believe women do not have souls. Astrological phenomena also takes on special meaning. There is a belief, for example, that the Milky Way is made up of deified souls of believers.<br>(...)<p>Alawites are estimated to number in the hundreds of thousands, living mainly in Syria, where they account for about 6 percent of the 17 million population, but also in Lebanon and Turkey.<p>A Look at Alawite Religious Sect, Las Vegas Sun/AP, June 12, 2000<p>The Alawites, at about 1.5 million strong in Syria and representing about 12 percent of the country's population, are considered by some to be a distant offshoot of the Shiite branch of Islam. Most members of the sect live in Syria, although there are scattered communities in Turkey as well.<p>Their belief system has been a matter of speculation, rumor and suspicion from more orthodox Muslims of both the Shiite and Sunni sects almost from their beginnings in the ninth century, when the branch was founded by a man named Ibn Nusayr, who declared himself the gateway to truth.<p>Only a small group within the sect are initiated into Alawite rituals and doctrine. But researchers who have studied the group say they drink wine in some ceremonies, incorporate elements of Phoenician paganism, and hold that Ali, the son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad, is a divine. All of that is anathema to conventional Islam.<p>New York Times, June 22, 2000
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:00 am

Saif,<p>No these are not the Alavi Bohras that Bro Akber is asking about. Alavi Bohras are a very small community only about 20,000 people, maybe even less. Majority of the Alavi Bohras are in Baroda. The Dai is also in Baroda. Originally Dawoodi and Alavi were the same but broke away a few centuries ago. Alavis are a much simpler shia sect than the others. The dai is not the God on earth for the Alavi Bohras. He is just a dai.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:43 am

Br Anajmi<p>How many times has there been a split on the issue of succession of the Dai, roughly?
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:29 am

Sis Jinx,<p>Roughly - about a million times. But who cares. A dai is just a person who invites - who preaches, he is not a gateway to paradise as some of us have been led to believe. So if he is just a person who invites then let there be a million and 1 dais. The more the merrier.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:15 am

But Sayedna Burhanuddin is Dai-al-Mutlaq that means no contender for this post.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:50 pm

So is the Alavi Bohra Dai. He is also Dai - al - Mutlaq. If the Alavi Bohra were to agree that the Dawoodai bohra dai is the dia - al - mutlaq then we wouldn't have these factions. The fact that each one of them can claim that he is the Dai-al-Mutlaq means that nobody higher up (I mean the Imam (hidden or not) or Allah) did not select a Dai-al-mutlaq. May Allah forgive me for saying this but I can claim to be Dai-al-Mutlaq. All I have to say is that I spoke to the Imam in my dreams. Who is going to verify it? In the case of bohras we are not even supposed to question this claim.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:15 pm

The Alia Bohras broke from the Dawoodi Bohras in the time of Syedna AbdulTayyeb Zakiuddin, the 29th Daii. After the death of the 28th Daii, Syedna Shaikh Adam Safiuddin, he nominated Syedna AbdulTayyeb Zakiuddin(the son of 27th Daii Syedna Dawoodbin Qutushah). Ali who was the son of Syedna Shaikh Adam laid claim to the post of Daii. He later apologized but again laid claim for the post. The matter went to the court of Emperor Jahangir who decided in favor of Syedna AbdulTayyeb Zakiuddin. <br>The grave of Ali is found beside Syedna Shaikh Adam Safiuddin in Ahmedabad. (I am not sure if it is still there). The Alia Bohras are mainly found in Baroda and Nagpur.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:41 pm

Br. anajmi says "May Allah forgive me for saying this but I can claim to be Dai-al-Mutlaq. All I have to say is that I spoke to the Imam in my dreams. Who is going to verify it? "<br>You cannot claim to be the Daii until and unless the incumbent Daii has passed on the nass to you with 4 witnesses. All the Daiis were made Daiis with minimum 4 witnesses. <br>Also your claim that the Daii of Dawoodi Bohras is god on earth for Dawoodi Bohras is totally false. This was proved in the earlier thread on Misaq in which Murtaza, Engineer and Humsafar participated.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:11 am

Simon,<p>I am not speaking for Anajmi, but you are assuming that he believes in the current succession process i.e. father to son. If one doesn't believe in the process, then yes anyone can claim that. If the process is legitimate, why do Bohra's only speculate about which "son" will take over ? It could be anybody, right ?<p>The God on Earth theory does not require legal transcripts from court proceedings; simply observe what is actually happening around you.<p>Best Wishes....
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm

Simon,<p>You spoke about the grave of Syedna Ali and you were not sure if it was still there. Can you tell me why you are not sure if it was still there???
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:39 pm

Br. Believer,<br>The word speculation itself suggests a ring of uncertainty around it. So unless the present Daii announces his next successor, everything else will be speculation.<br>My observations around me does not lead me to believe that the Daii is God on Earth. Maybe you look at it from your point of view. Unto you yours....I cannot argue about this.<br>Br. anajmi,<br>The reason I said that the grave of Ali was there or not was because the grave was almost touching the wall of the qubba..and the qubba was in the process of being rebuilt. There was talk that Ali's grave would be excluded from the qubba. I have not been after that. I apologize for using wrong terminology. I meant that his grave would not be there in the qubba.<br>Thanks,<br>Simon<br>
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:17 pm

Simon,<p>I asked the question because the Dawoodi Bohra clergy was responsible for ransacking that grave a few years ago. Modern day tomb raiders.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:32 am

Why did they do that anajmi?
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Sat Feb 16, 2002 5:44 pm

They did that for all the reasons that Simon stated above. He laid claim for the post of Dai and was responsible for the creation of a new Bohra sect. Kind of like they did with Br Asghar Ali Engineer, although for different reasons but then that never mattered to the bohra clergy.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:29 pm

Simon,<p>Limited speculation, as in "which son". <p>Hope you get my point now.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Sat Feb 16, 2002 8:07 pm

Have they no respect for even a person's grave?!
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:46 am

Dear Br. Muslim<br>Nothing is sacred in Dawoodi Bohra, everything is permitted.<br>
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2002 1:10 am

If the process is legitimate, why do Bohra's only speculate about which "son" will take over ? It could be anybody, right ?<p>>> It will never be anyone except someone from the royal family (House of Burhanuddin). There is a reason why everything is tightly controlled in the Dawoodi Bohra community. If the Dai and Khotar doesn’t rule the community with iron fist, how else will they be able to monopolize the religion?
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:22 pm

The problem is that you guys have a problem in the office of Daii going from father to son. But that is not the case. History bears it out. It goes to the best and most fit person whom the incumbent Daii passes the nas upon. The 50th Daii, Syedna Abdullah Badruddin passed nas upon his brother's son, Syedna Taher Saifuddin. Syedna Ismail Badruddin(Mota Bawa) was in no way connected to any of the earlier Daii's. He did nazr that if he was made Daii, he would feed Talibat-ul-ilm for the rest of his life. <br>I can foresee some smart Alec saying that he will 'maano nazr' that he be made Daii. But you have to look at the amount of sacrifice which Syedna Ismail Badruddin made for the the Daawat before he became Daii, gave away a lot of his wealth to lessen the debts of Daawat and he was also a pillar of knowledge,ikhlaas and piety.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:08 am

I agree with one point in your post that Daiship should and must go to the best and most fit person. Since we don't see our 52nd Dai closer to anything being fit or best with his agent conning the mass and claim his highness is totally ignorant I don't see the point of being apologetic, do you??
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Tue Feb 19, 2002 8:03 pm

br simon; how could you be sure that Nas was declared on Syedna Taher Saifuddin- I read it otherwise in the book by Ahmed Luqmani-A short history of Fatimi dawat-According to him Syedna Badruddin saheb's son Tayebbhai was poisoned& the Nas was never changed to syedna taher saifuddin.(SEE PAGE 31-Part 2)
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby Guest on Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:46 pm

I have also heard that on the night before the nas was to be announced , someone poisoned the glass of milk that the syedna used to drink before going to bed. He never woke up in the morning and the opposition announced the new Dai and made a statement that they were informed of it before the Dai went to bed last night.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby theterrific on Mon May 30, 2005 5:32 pm

The whole history of succession of Dawoodi Bohras is dotted with the break of nass at various instances. The practice of poisoning those who are on truth bears its footage far deep into the history. Saiyedna Shaikh Adam Safiyuddin did the nass publicly on atleast four instances in the month of Rajab on Saiyedna 'Ali (QR). The qabr mubarak of Saiyedna 'Ali (QR) has been demolished by the dawoodi bohras a few years back. May Allah curse on them.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby theterrific on Mon May 30, 2005 5:35 pm

For knowing the whole history of Saiyedna Ali, you can visit the site www.alavibohra.org
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby theterrific on Mon May 30, 2005 5:37 pm

I can present you the whole detailed history of what actually happened around 1030 A.H. Surely I will serve you the whole history.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby mbohra on Mon May 30, 2005 7:09 pm

better accesible webiste:
http://www.alavibohra.org/
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby mbohra on Mon May 30, 2005 7:15 pm

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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby khan19922001 on Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:32 am

I admit that this is one of the most interesting threads I was have read for some time.

What has really surprised me is Simone statement that the during the peiod of turmoil i.e after the 28 Dai, it was Emperor Jehangir who decided who was the correct Dai!!!! This is unbelievable. History proves that the Mughals did unparallel damage to Islam. Emperor Jehangir mother was a Hindu, who never converted.

If the Bohra's had to resort to seeking help from a man like Jehangir, then all thier claims to truth and Imam appear very hollow.

Can some one throw some more light on this issue. Zulqarnain can you please elaborate, I am extremely fascinated by this piece of history.
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Re: alavi bohra

Unread postby khan19922001 on Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:21 am

Any comments on Emperor Jehangir establishing the Dawoodi Bohra dynasty??
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