Just in time for Eid....How symbolic

[turbocanuck]

Another compassionate Muslim....

Maulvi beheads teenager student in Gujarat for Rs.7, 000
2007-12-19 14:01:46

Gujarat Global News Network, Vadodara

In a gruesome incident a Maulvi beheaded his 15 year old student for recovering Rs.7,000 which the boy's father had taken from him.

The maulvi (Islamic teacher) who was a friend of the victim's father stayed nearby and had given a loan of Rs.7, 000 to his friend. On not getting his money back the accused Narulhaq Abdulhaq Saiyad beheaded Abid Ali Saiyad and packed the head in a plastic bag and dumped it on the terrace of his house.

According to the police Narulhaq used to teach Abid. On Monday when he came to Abid's house he found him alone as his parents had gone out. Narulhaq asked Abid to come along with him to his house. An unsuspecting Abid went with him where Narul assaulted him with a sharp weapon and killed him.

When Abid did not return home till late night his father lodged a police complaint. When the cops questioned Narul he said that some people from a financial institution had kidnapped Abid. But he sounded suspicious and did not let police go on the first floor. The police broke upon the lock of the stair case and found the mutilated body of Abid on the terrace,

Narul was interrogated and he broke down and accepted his crime. The police arrested him and is looking for more evidence.

For news in Hindi see our Hindi news daily Chaupal Chronicle

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[pardesi]

Islam is a tolerant religion. True. Unfortunately its followers just fail to learn.

Turbo, stop posting unauthenticated reports or you will be on the receiving end from the "mouth of the south"

[pardesi]

correction.

Unfortunately "some" of its followers fail to learn.

My apologies.

[Muslim First]

Br. Pardesi

Ya Allah Madad

There are many Islamic horror news item and comment here. May be your Turbooch just post links and save some valuable storage space.

BTW. How are Eid prayers performed in Agakhani religion?

Peace.
.

[Muslim First]

May be your Turbooch just post links and save some valuable storage space.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
May be your Turbooch just post links and save some valuable storage space.

Dear Awwal number da Dummy,
here you go........
Link for you

http://www.kr-hcy.com/

[turbocanuck]

we perform Eid prayers coupled with messages of peace love and harmony and not murder as you lot are.
Hope your donated sacrificial goat brings you a lot of baraka and may Allah shower you with wisdom and taufiq....Eid Mubarak to you and your extended family. Today even enemies are supposed to wish each other Eid Mubarak right?

[porus]

Originally posted by turbocanuck:

http://www.kr-hcy.com/

If you click the 'Decline' button you will be greeted with a qaseeda designed to please Muawiyah in the manner he encouraged similar poems of laanat against Ali ibn Abi Taalib.

Some words from a ver long poem:

*********
kaafir, kaafir, shia kaafir

aao aao, karey elaan
kaafir, kaafir, shia kaafir

kahe buddhe, bachche, jawaan
kaafir , kaafir, shia kaafir

shytaano ke shaytaan
kaafir , kaafir, shia kaafir
**********
On the left column of the page is another poem, Shia ka asli roop. The last line is:

nikaal baahar karo in shioon-ko pakistan-se.

*************

You see how some very special so-called Muslims want to save the rest from hell-fire. We have examples on this forum. They of course know 100% that God has reserved a special place for them. After all they are the only ones who follow Quran and Sunna.

[anajmi]

porus,

Can you please point out the ruling by the prophet (saw) or Hazrat Ali which states that asr should be prayed immediately after zuhr, or even one that states that it is preferable to pray asr immediately after zuhr?

[Arif]

Maulvi beheads teenager student in Gujarat for Rs.7, 000

It is unfortunate that a learned Islamic teacher has killed a young boy for 7,000 Rs. I feel bad for the parents of the boy.
Innalillah Wa Inna Illah Hirojiun

[porus]

Originally posted by anajmi:
porus,

Can you please point out the ruling by the prophet (saw) or Hazrat Ali which states that asr should be prayed immediately after zuhr, or even one that states that it is preferable to pray asr immediately after zuhr?

We covered this topic extensively earlier. Bohras follow Daaimul islam. The chapter on prayer times deals with the interpretation of Prophet's ruling on asr by Imams. They can be prayed one after the other. (Remember, it is advisable, according to Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq, to offer prayers at the earliest times)

I also recall you have a copy of Daaimul islam, Refer to the book of Salat in section entitled 'Awqaat as-Salaat' (Prayer Times).

Bohras consider Imams as ayats of the Quran and their (Imam's) interpretation is taken as definitive. If you wish to argue against the Shia Imam, I suggest you go to an anti-hia site and give vent to your anger there. No one is going to be impressed by you here. They will hold on to their Imams, whether they are Bohras, Ismailies or Ithna-asharis.

[porus]

Originally posted by porus:
[ They can be prayed one after the other.

That is asr can be prayed immediately after zuhar.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. anajmi

You are westing time here. But foloowing is interesting.
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter7/5.html

We are allowed to pray noon and afternoon prayer one after another (without
a lot of delay between the two). Similarly we are allowed to pray sunset
prayer and night prayer one after another. Actually it is better to pray in
their own specific time (close to what Sunnis do), but it is not necessary.
Thus instead of five separate times, we can pray all the five daily prayers
only in three separate times.

Bohras consider Imams as ayats of the Quran

That is same silly 'Bolta Qur'an' argument.

Salaam Br. porus. Thanks for education
.

[anajmi]

I was simply trying to show that there is no such ruling either from the prophet (saw) or Hazrat Ali both of whom have recommended offering prayers at their earliest times and not one prayer immediately after another.

Besides, combining prayers is not an interpretation of the quran, but an innovation. And before posing the question, I did read the chapter in Daimul Islaam. I found nothing in there which was based either on the quran or the sunnah of the prophet. If there is, please point it out, although, if there had been, you would've already.

Here is something interesting in that chapter. The very first paragraph,

Abu Abd Allah Jafar B. Muhammad: He said, For every prayer [of the five daily prayers] there are two periods of time [during which the prayer may be performed], the beginning and the ending. Now the beginning is more excellent,...

Now the time for zuhr lasts for an hour and 45 minutes. So if you offer zuhr at the beginning, then you still have about an hour and 30 minutes before the beginning of asr. So when you offer asr immediately after zuhr, you are not offering it at the beginning of its time.

Jafar b. Muhammad says, - Nothing prevents the asr prayer to be said immediately after the zuhr except the supererogatory prayer

Actually, nothing prevents you from offering any prayer at any time you desire, except the rulings of the prophet which some choose to follow and some choose to ignore.

The ruling of praying asr immediately after zuhr and the nafil prayer is based upon one instance when the Imam offered the asr immediately after zuhr and the nafil under different trees as explained on page 172.

[porus]

Both MF and anajmi are a waste of time. Go to anti-shia sites and wax lyrical on how the Shia are kafirs and do not follow Prophet.

In fact go to:

http://www.kr-hcy.com/

instead of misreading daimul islam like you do the Quran. You will have your brothers there, make them happy.

[anajmi]

porus,

Please correct my misreading of Daimul Islam. I am requesting you, please let me know what my mistake is and how you came up with combining prayers from the prophet's rulings and the quran. Remember, according to your correct reading of the quran, the order is a single wife, whereas all your Imams have had more than one wives.

[porus]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

That is same silly 'Bolta Qur'an' argument.

Muslim Fisrt,

Bolta Quran???

Hmmmm,

Did Quran 'come down' as a book? Or was it spoken?

So, was Jibaril bolta Quran or just a holy parrot?

What about Muhammad? Was he a bolta Quran, or just a parrot?

Do you think there is 'hikmat' in why Quran was not written down as a complete book by Prophet in his life time, that is according to the Sunnis?

Why did the Prophet say "I leave behind Quran", when no such written material was available during his lifetime?

Why did Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman seek clarification of Quran from Ali? O, you think that is a lie?

Ali said he was bolta quran? You being Sunni, will probably say that that is a lie too. That Ali never made such claim. You trust Bukhari more than Fatima Zahra, Imam Husain and Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq. Yes?

Finally, what does it mean when someone is described as 'bolta quran'? Is Yusufali or Bukhari that?

If there is no bolta quran, how would you teach an illiterate aboriginee in Australia what Quran is? By giving him a copy of the Arabic Quran? Or by sending a Wahhabi there who swears he will just read Quran to them and somehow they will know what is in there? Even you cannot know what it means without referring to Yusufali? What is Yusufali to you? Or does the Arabic somehow speak to you?

[porus]

Muslim First,

If Prophet was alive, would you consider him the sole authority on interpreting the Quran?

Would Prophet have recognized that people would need such an authority after he was gone? Did he complete his duty towards this requirement? How?

Or do you want to say that Prophet left this important question to the whims of his followers?

[Al Zulfiqar]

there was a news story the other day about delhi having been over-run by langoors and becoming unmanageable pests, as they are considered religious symbols for hindus and cannot be killed.

now what do we see? those same monkeys, the red-assed, constipated types, have invaded this forum as well, nit-picking and thriving on refuse, engaging in endless debates and entering homes uninvited. the same problem pervades here. they cannot be radically eliminated as they are religious bigots, oops symbols!

[anajmi]

Al Zulfikar,

Sensible mortals are supposed to be watching from the ring side. Jumping into the ring every now and then with nothing of value to add only proves that you long to be one of those langoors. Now what sensible mortal would want that? So, stay out of the ring.

porus,

I don't think you understood the "bolta quran" that brother Muslim First was referring to. He wasn't talking about one who teaches the quran, but one who reinterprets the quran differently from what the prophet taught. For eg. how did praying 5 times a day turn into combining zuhr and asr? Not because of a ruling of the prophet but because "Bohras consider Imams as ayats of the Quran" whatever that means!! Any teaching, that cannot be traced back to the quran, but is attributed to someone who is considered a replacement of the quran is the "bolta quran" that Muslim First was referring to.

[porus]

Al zulfiqar,

I understand your exasperation. You will develop immunity and tolerance to langooriyat as time passes, that is if you care to stick around. You are a relatively recent arrival, so you may not be aware that this is not a new invasion. This is our seventh year on this board. In fact we are the original langoors for this board.

But, langooriyat started 1400 years ago and is set to continue for at least another millenia.

The battle for the soul of Islam is raging throughout the globe between moderates and puritans, reformists and fundamentalists. We are all immersed in it and likely to suffer the consequences of who gets the upper hand. You can join in or stay on the sidelines and watch. Langoors won't go away any time soon.

[porus]

anajmi,

It is a matter of interpretation by those authorized to do so. Teachers are not interpreters. They convey interpretations to their students.

All namaaz practices by Bohras are traced back to the authority of the Prophet and Quran. That is their belief and trust in the Imams.

I will post here another view for you.

[anajmi]

porus,

All namaaz practices by Bohras are traced back to the authority of the Prophet and Quran.

That is what I am trying to figure out. How does it trace back to the prophet and the quran? It does not. It ends at the ruling of the Imam.

[porus]

There is nothing to add.

Interpretation (I) of Prophet = I of Ali = I of Husain = I of Jaafar al-Sadiq and so on...

Also, I of Jaafar al-Sadiq = I of Prophet.

Next post will completely erase this notion and we can then go home.

[porus]

This is strictly for Muslim first and anajmi. My apologies to the Shia, not that they actually deserve it:

Imam Jafar us-Sadiq? Fraud, innovator extra-ordinaire. Claimed he knew what Prophet meant, a'uzubillah. When he gets a respite from hell-fire, he should apologize to Bukhari, radiallahu anhu.

Ali ibn Abi Talib? He was ok, I suppose. But he battled with the our mother Aaisha, radiallahu anha ,and the great Amir Muawiyah, radiullahu anhu, which makes him a suspect. Probably a munafiq.

Imam Hussain? Attempted to destroy the rule of our dear Khalifa, Yazid, radiullahu anhu. Very stupid. Took his family to fight against forces of Islam. Hid behind his children on 10 Muharram, astagfirullah. Luckily for Islam, he was shown what happens when you rebel against the authority of Islam?

Ghadeer-e-Khum. A fradulent history by the Shia kafirs. They claim our dear prophet nominated Ali as his successor, astagfirullah. Don't they know Muhammad could never do that? He passed away without ever completing his religion in the matter of how to nominate a successor. That is why we had 4 different ways to nominate first 4 Khalifas based on the Sunna of the Prophet. Even if the prophet did not nominate anyone, we know what he would have done in each of the 4 cases if he had lived. He would certainly have chosen Abu Bakr, even though he used to say, according to Sunnis, if there could a Prophet after him, it would be Umar. He also knew that Bukhari will interpret correct Sunna for all.

Aga Khan? A fake Imam. An anglo. Ever heard of anyone being an Imam except the one from pure Arab blood of Quraysh? Their fake imam Zainul Abideen al-Sajjad had Iranian blood. That renders all his descendants ineligible for Muslim leadership. As everyone knows most Iranians are Shia kuffar.

Enough now for exposing the Shia Kafirs on this site. I pray that Muslim First and anajmi will continue exposing the perfidious ways of the Bohras, Ismailies and Ithnasharis and other kuffar like Ahmadiyyas et al until they start following Yusufali, the true Quran and Bukhari, the true Sunna.

They must be shown the correct way to pray as Prophet did according to Bukhari, radiullahu anhu, five times not three times. As everyone knows Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq cannot compete in scholarship against Bukhari, radiallahu anhu, who can teach him a thing or two. And who cares for an Iranian descendant? We will ignore the fact that Bukhari was probably an Iranian, otherwise the Shia Kafirs will start pointing that out to us.

Allah bless us and consign the Shia to hell-fire as Quran promises.

[anajmi]

porus,

I asked a simple enough question. Not sure what all that was about. It would've been simpler just to say that - if the Imam says something then there is no need to trace anything back to the quran and the prophet. Isn't that what you mean by your last post? If that is true, then you are right, we can all go home. Shiaism has been proven to be not traceable back to the prophet and the quran.

If you can trace it back to the quran and the prophet, please post the ayah of the quran about combining prayers, no need to post any translation, just post the verse and the ayah number. I am sure YusufAli hasn't translated/interpreted it right, I will approach the only living Imam who is not hiding, the Aga Khan, and ask him the interpretation.

[porus]

Originally posted by anajmi:
Shiaism has been proven to be not traceable back to the prophet and the quran.

Which proves the duplicity of the Shia and innovations they have introduced. Kaafir, Kaafir, Shia Kaafir. They do not follow prophet and quran. We finally proved it.

We can all go home.

Hallelujah! Sorry, Alhamdulillah!

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

AS

I am sorry I have offended so much. Being a non beliver in Islam, you seems to be a farm believer in Shiasm and refuse to see any short coming.

Anyway, I will take some time to frame my response to your outburst. In the mean time please keep it cool.

Br. Al Zulfiqar

AS

I am sorry to offend you. When I am ready I will open a new discussion forum. Please do not visit it with your langoor story. It will be civil discussion on 'Combining of Namaaz'.

Br. Anajmi

Can you figure out what 'Daaimul islam' says on Asr prayer timing?

Wasalaam
.

[anajmi]

porus,

You remind me of when I was 6 or 7 years old. Every time someone disagreed with me, I would throw a tantrum "You are wrong and I am right and I hate you!!". I grew up, time you did too.

[anajmi]

Brother Muslim First,

I am typing what I think is interesting from Daimul Islam.

Abu Abd Allah Jafar b. Muhammad: He said, 'For every prayer [of the five daily prayers] there are two periods of time [duing which the prayer may be performed], the beginning and the ending.... There is nothing about saying one prayer immediately after another in this hadith.

Jafar b. Muhammad: He said, 'The commencement of the period for offering the zuhr prayer is the declination of the sun.' The sign of its declination is this: Something [say a pillar] sasting a shadow should be fixed perpendicularly on a level surface in the earliest time of the day. Its shadow cast west is at its longest. It should be inspected [as the day progresses], and will be found to shrink and decrease until it stops altogether [at the center]. Now this is what takes place when the sun arrives at the meridian in the middle of the sky and is neither to the east nor to the west. Then the sun declines and follows [the path] destined by God. The shadow will seem to be static for a moment as if without any motion; thereafter it begins to move and extend rapidly [towards the east]. When this movement of the shadow is manifest, this is the beginning of the time for the zuhr prayer.

Jafar b. Muhammad: He said, 'When the sun declines from the meridian there arrives the time for the prayers of zuhr and asr. Nothing prevents the asr prayer to be said immediately after the zuhr except the supererogatory prayer (nafila) and the glorification of God (subha), which is to be said after the zuhr and before the asr. If a man so desires he may take his own time [for the supererogatory prayers and the rosary] until the shadow [of the man] cast by the sun lengthens itself to twice the stature of man, or he may curtail such orisons.

Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali: Once upon a time he went with a companion to Mashrabat Umm Ibrahim, [a hillock], which he ascended and descended. Then [the Imam] inquired, 'Is it past midday?' The man repllied, "You surely know better, may I be thy ransom!' [The Imam] looked around and said, 'Yes indeed, the sun has begun to decline.' So he gave the call to prayer of zawal, which is the sunna before the zuhr. Then he said the iqama [the commencement of the farida (obligatory) prayer], and went to another tree and let his companion stand to his right and prayed the four raka'at of zuhr [obligatory]. Thereafter he gave the call of adhan and prayed the four raka'at [of the sunna]; then he said the iqama and prayed the asr [obligatory]. Between those two prayers [the zuhr and the asr] there was no interval except for the supererogatory prayer (subha). This is the unanimous opinion about the time of zuhr and asr, and there is enough room in these two [periods of] time [that is the beginning and the ending].

Now here is the catch. Read carefully.

The rule of action, however, based on what was witnessed by the people and according to the calls to prayer whereof the Imams were apprised, is that the call for the asr should be given at the beginning of the ninth hour [after sunrise], and this is two complete hours after midday. This closely resembles the prayer of Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali [Imam al-Baqir] reported by us, and the dictum of Jafar b. Muhammad [Imam al-Sadiq]. He, who offers his zuhr prayer in leisurely fashion--the compulsory, the sunna, and the supererogatory prayers--and prays in the proper manner, would not take less than two hours of the day [to perform them].

The bohras don't have a clue what their Imams are teaching them.