So many offshoots..wonder who is right

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby GreatBarrier on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:49 am

I obtained this article and also saw Alawi Bohras majlis on YouTube...wow how many are we ? What a pity !

Interesting point is we have somehow disagreed to agree and issue was with inheritance and succession !

In the last generation Dawoodi have also split into Ortho and Progressive (sic)

Do other Bohras also have the same dramas as we Dawoodi's have ?


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Mustaali

Main article: Mustaali

The Mustaali group of Ismaili Muslims differ from the Nizāriyya in that they believe that the successor-Imām to the Fatimid caliph, al-Mustansir, was his younger son al-Mustaˤlī, who was made Caliph by the Fatimad Regent Al-Afdal Shahanshah.

In contrast to the Nizaris, they accept the younger brother al-Mustaˤlī over Nizar as their Imam. The Bohras are an offshoot of the Taiyabi, which itself was an offshoot of the Mustaali. The Taiyabi, supporting another offshoot of the Mustaali, the Hafizi branch, split with the Mustaali Fatimid, who recognized Al-Amir as their last Imam. The split was due to the Taiyabi believing that Tayyab Abī al-Qāsim was the next rightful Imam after Al-Amir. The Hafizi themselves however considered Al-Hafiz as the next rightful Imam after Al-Amir.

The Bohras believe that their 21st Imam, Taiyab abi al-Qasim, went into seclusion and established the offices of the Da'i al-Mutlaq (الداعي المطلق), Ma'zoon (مأذون) and Mukasir (مكاسر). The Bohras are the only surviving branch of the Mustaali and themselves have split into the Dawoodi Bohra,Sulaimani Bohra, and Alavi Bohra.

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Dawoodi Bohras

Main article: Dawoodi Bohra

The Dawoodi Bohras are a denomination of the Bohras. After offshooting from the Taiyabi the Bohras split into two, the Dawoodi Bohra and the Sulaimani Bohra, over who would be the correct dai of the community. Concentrated mainly in Pakistan and India.

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Sulamaini Bohras

Main article: Sulaimani Bohra

The Sulaimani Bohra named after their 27th Da'i al-Mutlaq, Sulayman ibn Hassan, are a denomination of the Bohras. After offshooting from the Taiyabi the Bohras split into two, the Sulaimani Bohra and the Dawoodi Bohra, over who would be the correct dai of the community. Concentrated mainly in Yemen.

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Alavi Bohras

Main article: Alavi Bohra

Split from the Dawoodi Bohra over who would be the correct dai of the community. The smallest branch of the Bohras.

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Hebtiahs Bohra

Main article: Hebtiahs Bohra

The Hebtiahs Bohra are a branch of Mustaali Ismaili Shi'a Islam that broke off from the mainstream Dawoodi Bohra after the death of the 39th Da'i al-Mutlaq in 1754.[citation needed]

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Atba-i-Malak

Main article: Atba-i-Malak

The Abta-i Malak jamaat (community) are a branch of Mustaali Ismaili Shi'a Islam that broke off from the mainstream Dawoodi Bohra after the death of the 46th Da'i al-Mutlaq, under the leadership of Abdul Hussain Jivaji. They have further split into two more branches, the Atba-i-Malak Badra and Atba-i-Malak Vakil.[19]
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:25 pm

GB,

I understand yr dilemma, esp having grown up as a dawoodi bohra and in a comfort zone where we believe whatever we are told and we see people practising the same things around us, incl. our families, friends and society. It is easy to believe that our traditions, our culture, our way of life is the only right way, it gives us warmth, security and a feeling of camaraderie. But imagine the courage of Prophet Mohammed when he went against each and every long established norm of all those around him. Was he alone right vis-a-vis all those lakhs and millions around him? His own family, his society, everyone wrong and he alone right?

Use yr own better judgement based on yr God given intellect and do not form opinions or conclusions just because everyone else says it is right. The quran itself challenges you to ask questions and believe only after you have exercised your intelligence and commonsense. This will answer yr dilemma about who is right from among all these sects and sub-sects.

In fact the only right is what the Prophet followed and since you are a shia, also whatever Ali did. Try to live their life, and follow their ideals as much as you can, instead of wasting yr time, energy and spirituality getting torn between the contradictory opinions and diktats of rascals and charlatans capitalising in the name of religion and playing with the faith of humble, faithful folks. Ignorance or complacency is no excuse when it comes to matters of faith and the excuse of the majority of bohras in blind faith is a sin in the eyes of Allah.
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby GreatBarrier on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:47 pm

I wish to add and history will record and judge if I have speculated correctly ?

" Dawoodi Bohras in 20 Century split further into Progressives and Orthodox Bohras" due to disagreement over the 51st and 52nd Dia's empowerement"

" The Orthodox further split into...(you know).....when the 53rd Dai was nominated or ......."

This way its seems every century we will split....

What a strange evolutionary cycle we are in, ready to split rather than convert new followers from non-Gujarati speaking citizens of the world..whether they are Muslims or not.
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby East Africawalla on Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:41 am

You have to believe we are right otherwise you will be wasting your time and effort
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby GreatBarrier on Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:45 pm

East Africawalla wrote:You have to believe we are right otherwise you will be wasting your time and effort


I believe Islam is the best religion, I was born in it, I questioned it in my youth but also took the effort to validate my faith thanks to some respected Moalims from broader Shia, Islam has stood upto time and proved its authenticity and its univerasality by providing freedom, demorcacy, equity and innovation,

At the same time some deviants (I regard exteremists in ISlamic context or Bohra fanatics in community fanatics, the only differentiation is the degree of harm either can cause) have manipulated the knowledge and that has resulted in issues that has brought us shame or concerns. Conclude what you may but that is the what I beleive that civilised mankind should agree to disagree but not become aggressive.

Similarly I do admire and appreciate Progressives' mission and undertsand the root cuase and some of the issues they bring up where many could be true but that does not mean I white wash that they are perfect or ideal such that I am aspired to join them !

On the same token it does not mean I regard other religions as wrong ! They are may right for their followers and one needs to understand human behaviours, religious roots and geographical applicability to appreciate various faiths. If one claims can understand the "tawil" then the same capacity can help one undertsant it is quite diffrent to see Islam from within and see it from the outside! Ishara kafee he !

Bohraism is a culture which is my identity based on my decendency from a Bohra family hence by being brought up in it I enjoy what I wish to and ignore what I don't want to especially if it is offensive. I view other religions and cultures with respect and admiration and if there is something to learn from and is useful why not ? This my take on civilisation !
Dawoodi Bohraism is a comfortable culture but also with many exagerations and extremes however yet they have not reached a level to tip the balance to become very oppressive and unbearable such as China-Tibet issue or Taliban-Afhan issue. Yes I do think some of Bohra practises are waste of time but as long as others do it at their free will and I am am not oppressed or forced into it. But the Kotharis fanatics should not get over confident to test the treshold because it cannot be backed out the next day and we will end up in chaos for a long time...examples are all around us.
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm

East Africawalla wrote:You have to believe we are right otherwise you will be wasting your time and effort


your blind faith in syedna and his distortion of our deen is a true reflection on yr mental retardation. perhaps you should get re-born as a water buffalo in the wilds of tanzania and get slaughtered by your aqa maula to earn great sawab. until then you are wasting yr time and effort. but you can succeed in yr efforts to be re-incarnated as a buffalo, if u pray the syedna prescribed prayer every day without fail...

"inna lil dai-e, wa inna lil dai-e rajeun"....
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:09 pm

gb, yr attempts to self-initiate free thought and exercise yr free will and judgement are anathema to our religious establishment. a small taste of it you have already recd here from the closed minded fanatics. that should be an eye-opener to you.

whether u formally join the reformists or not, the very aspect of yr thinking independently for yrself makes u a progressive or reformist bohra by default and that is something which is highly discouraged by our kothar. many reformists today started exactly like u, questioning a lot of things which are nonsensical and unislamic in our practices and newly innovated by the last 2 syednas. the ostracism and persecution they suffered eventually made them join the reformist ranks. its as if they were forced to accept the fact, that either you blindly obey whatever we tell you or get out.
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby like_minded on Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:01 am

I believe Islam is the best religion, I was born in it

GB, had you been born a hindu, You'd have believed hinduism as the best religion! How are you not embarrassed?

Religion over the years has only been successful in blinding human beings, showing them a picture which isn't real, building a false identity which feeds the ego and therefore creates differences and disputes.

I am not saying religion doesn't have its uses, Personally I turn to it whenever I want my intelligence insulted! There are of course many sins one can commit in the eyes of religion, Among the greatest is the sin of having original thought, Religion disapproves of original thought the way Dracula disapproves of Sunlight!!

I think when you subscribe to a religion, you substitute nebulous group-think for focused independent thought, Instead of learning to discern truth on your own, you're told what to believe, this doesn't accelerate your spiritual growth on the contrary it puts brakes on your continued conscious development, that's why religion is the off-switch of the human mind. If you have the awareness level of a snail, and your thinking is mired in shame and guilt, then subscribing to a religion can help you climb to a higher level of awareness, Your mindset however still remains dysfunctional because you've merely swapped one form of erroneous thinking for another.

So, leave the mythology behind and learn to think for yourself, because your intellect is a better instrument for spiritual growth than any religious teachings.!!
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Re: So many offshoots..wonder who is right

Unread postby GreatBarrier on Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:39 am

LM, probably... or if I was born in a family in the middle of Amazon forest and there was no contact with Muslims I would today have been a pagan or Christian...more likely I would have not known Bohras and would not be bloggging on this site!

Regarding spirituality read this link around biological setup and spirituality and probably you have biological reasons for being less spiritual...do not take it offensively ..I am less spiritual and more pragmatic yet a believer in super natural force controlling the 4 forces which in my determination could define the qualities of Allah.

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001869.html
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