Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives - Akida/faith

[Mubarak]

1. In all the mosques and markaz serviced by Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive five times a day – loudly, clearly and categorically it is announced on loudspeakers in the Azaan: “Ash hado anna Molana Aliyun valiyullah” and “Mohammadun va Aliyun Kher ul basher va itra tuhuma kherul itar” – by announcing loudly in azan Progressives categorically express that they consider Mola Ali (a.s.) and his progeny as the leader i.e. they disown claim of Sunni neta’s Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman as being successor of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

2. Love and faith in all the right Fatimi Imams from first Imam Molana Hasan (a.s.) till 21st Imam Molana Imam Tayyeb (a.s.) and their progeny thereafter is taken five times a day every day on loudspeaker in all the mosques and markaz serviced by Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive.

3. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive considers mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) as true Muslims unlike Sunni.

4. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives unlike Sunni do not consider Abu Sufiyan and his wife Hinda who chewed the heart and minced the dead-body of Molana Hamza (r.a.) as Muslims.

5. In namaz Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives say Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem before reading the Sura Fateha (Alhamdo ki surat), it is part/aayat of Sura Fateha but Sunni though agrees that it is part/aayat of Sura Fateha but they do not say in their Namaz. Word “Aameen” is not the part of Sura Fateha and not quranic word thus Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive do not say it after Sura Fateha but Sunni does. Bohra Youth/Progressive keep loyalty with house owners unlike Sunni who rejects what is in home (Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem) and imports outsiders (Aameen) – rejects the house owners Mola Ali (a.s.) and imports outsiders (Shri Abu Baker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman)- Sunni are like – juta sir per aur pagdi pair (legs) per.

6. Bohra Youth/Progressives stands in attention/’sav’dhan during Namaz unlike Sunni who stand in relax/’vishram’ in Namaaz!

7. Bohra Youth/Progressives Namaz action going from Ruku to Sajood is that of Halal animal (keeping first hand and then knees) example goat, sheep, camel, etc unlike Sunni whose action in same state is that of Haram animals like pig, dog, elephant, etc

8. In the era of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) Mola Ali (a.s.) is the only men born inside the four walls of Kaba whereas Sunni neta Shri Abu Baker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were born as zahils, eat haram food, played ‘Jugar’, drink alcohol, etc till they on face converted to Islam.

9. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives considers book Daimul Islam written by Molana Kazi Noman (r.a.) as pristine and true book and as per that book Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) has sent Lanat on Sunni neta shri Abu Baker, shri Umar and shri Usman.

10. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives faith: All the Prophets including Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was appointed by Allah. And their successors were appointed by those Prophets. In Islam there is ‘Ameeriyat’ i.e. one appointed man rule and no ‘jamhuriyat’ i.e. democracy. Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) was appointed by Allah and then he appointed Mola Ali (a.s.). Sunni neta shri Abubaker snatched the right of Mola Ali (a.s.) and declared himself as the democratically elected neta of Islam, when he passed away he should have left his successor selection to public to decide but he APPOINTED and not exercised people will to select his successor, he appointed shri Umar!

11. Zulfiquar was awarded from Allah to Mola Ali (a.s.) unlike all three Sunni neta who ran away from all zihad and attend only at time of distributing maal-a-ganimat.

12. In Udaipur, Bohra Youth/Progressives clad in black cloths and express grief on the martyrdom of Imam Hussain with tears in their eyes and heart. The neighboring streets of Boharwadi – Karwadi, Silawatwadi, Dholi Bawdi, etc Sunni community members celebrate murdering Imam Hussain (a.s.) as post Aashura the military of Sunni neta Shri Yazeed took the head of Imam Hussain (a.s.) and his family/friends on the point of spears and took celebrating procession in the different places likewise today these Sunni remembers that day and take ‘Taboot’ and ‘spears’ celebration procession where they carry spears in that procession remembering their neta Yazeed military too took similar processions only difference is that that time on spear the head of Imam Hussain (a.s.) was there but not today, in that procession they beat drums like their Sunni leader Yazeed military did. Most of the participating Sunni members smoke BIDI/cigarettes, toss their spears in air and shouts Ya Hussain!!!

[Humsafar]

Reformists believe in the Dawoodi Bohra faith and tradition. Period. There is no need to point out specifics of the doctrine as if their beliefs are different from those of the so-called mainstream.

[ozmujaheed]

M ..what is the point of your discussion...you are generalising Sunni faith and as you are not an expert on Ahlul Sunnah what is the point of evaluating Sunni Faith. Your views are extreme, unsupported and intolerant view and will achieve nothing but hatred on both sides !

If you are an expert on Progrssive faith you should only state your beleifs and you can intelligently show their diffrences such as we keep hands straight while they fold hands.

Do you and others with similar attitudes recognise out of 1.3 Billion Muslims globally almost a Billion are not Shias, of the Shias not more than 4 million are Ismailis which is less 0.3% of the Muslim Ummah, furthermore of that 1 Million are Dawoodi which is 0.1%. You must be over confident and tall order to criticise their faith and throw abuse at their respected leaders.

[accountability]

Admin: I will strongly urge you to ban mubarak, if you donot want this forum to become a hate mongering site. He is a brainwashed ignorant man with no foresight. The way he describes is more than enough to oust him from this forum. His offensive and totally abusive language towards everyone who donot condone his view is a clear manifestation of his poinsoeous thinking. I will again urge to ban mubarak once and for ever.

[Mubarak]

Reformists believe in the Dawoodi Bohra faith and tradition. Period. There is no need to point out specifics of the doctrine as if their beliefs are different from those of the so-called mainstream.

Dear Brother Humsafar saheb,

As per the righteousness of thoughts/faith/belief only Dawoodi Bohras Ismailiya Shia is the Mainstream Islam i.e. Dawoodi Bohras are summation of Molana Aadam Qulli (a.s.) till Quaim Quilli (a.j.a.) teaching.

If you are going by ‘population’ as a measure of gauging righteousness then as per your writing inference you will do better to become Christian.

If you do not agree that faith/religion wise Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia is the only right faith/sect = true mainstream Islam then why don’t you join as per your contention ‘population’ wise classified mainstream Islam = Sunni?

Best regards,

[Mubarak]

Do you and others with similar attitudes recognise out of 1.3 Billion Muslims globally almost a Billion are not Shias, of the Shias not more than 4 million are Ismailis which is less 0.3% of the Muslim Ummah, furthermore of that 1 Million are Dawoodi which is 0.1%. You must be over confident and tall order to criticise their faith and throw abuse at their respected leaders.

Dear OZ Mujaheed,

Minority doesn’t make the minor group as wrong, does it? Indeed in majority of instances Minorities are right than majority. Dawoodi Bohra believes that though Imam Hussain (a.s.) was in minority but ‘right’ was with him. And Sunni neta Shri Yazeed s/o Shri Maviya was in majority but was not right. Lets Sunni revere their neta Shri Yazeed as he was in majority and we Dawoodi Bohras will revere Imam Hussain (a.s.) as ‘right’ was with him.

By the way you as per your majority/minority :: right/wrong logic why are you not considering adopting Christianity as they are more than Sunni in population?

Best regards,

[Regal]

as said by other official reformists the reform movement is only there to amend the social aspects of the community so this post abt religious views of not all reformists but only you is irrelevent.

[ozmujaheed]

I guess Mubarak is out to sabotage this forum ? I doubt he is what he is claiming to be!

[ghulam muhammed]

Minority doesn’t make the minor group as wrong, does it? Indeed in majority of instances Minorities are right than majority.

If the above is so true then why dont you embrace the "Yazidi sect" or the "Qadyani sect" which are far lesser in numbers then the "pristine shia/dawoodi bohra sect". Then there is even the "Parsi faith" which worhips fire which is lesser in numbers then the above two sects.

[ghulam muhammed]

I guess Mubarak is out to sabotage this forum ? I doubt he is what he is claiming to be!

Bro Ozmujahid,

The word sabotage is too mild a term for people like mubarak. His aim is to spit venom on the relatives and wives of the Holy Prophet Rasul Allah s.a.w. and to question the wisdom of none other then the Holy Prophet s.a.w. Himself and thereby spread FITNAH in the Ummah.

[anajmi]

Not sure why you guys want Mubarak banned. Why can't we just reply to his post?

1. In all the mosques and markaz serviced by Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive five times a day – loudly, clearly and categorically it is announced on loudspeakers in the Azaan: “Ash hado anna Molana Aliyun valiyullah” and “Mohammadun va Aliyun Kher ul basher va itra tuhuma kherul itar” – by announcing loudly in azan Progressives categorically express that they consider Mola Ali (a.s.) and his progeny as the leader i.e. they disown claim of Sunni neta’s Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman as being successor of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

Were these quotes a part of the Adhan during the time of the prophet? Hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were appointed by the people and Hazrat Ali gave them his support. Whether he was unwilling or willing is a matter of opinion and speculation. If Hazrat Ali accepted the khilafat of Hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, then the shias are going against Hazrat Ali by cursing them.

2. Love and faith in all the right Fatimi Imams from first Imam Molana Hasan (a.s.) till 21st Imam Molana Imam Tayyeb (a.s.) and their progeny thereafter is taken five times a day every day on loudspeaker in all the mosques and markaz serviced by Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive.

There are no right Fatimi Imams or left Fatimi Imams. There is only the quran and the sunnah of the prophet. These Fatimi Imams were nothing but rulers. Just like the Dai of today and we all know what he is made up of.

3. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressive considers mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) as true Muslims unlike Sunni.

Again, this is a matter of opinion and speculation. There were a lot of people who had the faith in One God before Islam. They can all be considered as Muslims. If we can establish that that is what the Mother and Father of Hazrat Ali believed, then yes they were muslims. But the formal religion of Islam with its commandments like salaah, zakat, roza, Hajj was not established at that time. Although the quran does say - Fast like those that did before you. So fasting was establised even for those that came before.

4. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives unlike Sunni do not consider Abu Sufiyan and his wife Hinda who chewed the heart and minced the dead-body of Molana Hamza (r.a.) as Muslims.

Anyone who accepts Islam is supposed to be considered a Muslim. It is the prophet's hadith that anyone who accepts Islam is forgiven all his sins no matter how big. The shias have no say in this. They may believe what they like. Whether Abu Sufiyan and Hinda really became Muslims or not is for Allah to decide. As far as we are concerned, they accepted Islam. End of story.

Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem before reading the Sura Fateha

There are different opinions about this. According to some schools of thought Bismillah was revealed as a part of the quran at the beginning of every ayah. They recite it at the beginning of every Surah. Some schools have a different opinion and do not believe that it was revealed at the beginning of every surah and hence they do not recite it. There is no hadith from the prophet that Bismillah has to be recited before every surah in the salaah. As far as I know, neither has Hazrat Ali given any such direction.

Word “Aameen” is not the part of Sura Fateha

Correct. Some recite it as per some schools of thought and some do not.

6. Bohra Youth/Progressives stands in attention/’sav’dhan during Namaz unlike Sunni who stand in relax/’vishram’ in Namaaz!

No response for that one, only a smile.

7. Bohra Youth/Progressives Namaz action going from Ruku to Sajood is that of Halal animal (keeping first hand and then knees) example goat, sheep, camel, etc unlike Sunni whose action in same state is that of Haram animals like pig, dog, elephant, etc

Wrong, the recommended approach even amongst sunnis is first hands and then knees. Some people just do it the other way. It is not Haraam. This is a fatwa of Mr. Mubarak without any basis from the sunnah or even from Hazrat Ali.

8. In the era of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) Mola Ali (a.s.) is the only men born inside the four walls of Kaba whereas Sunni neta Shri Abu Baker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were born as zahils, eat haram food, played ‘Jugar’, drink alcohol, etc till they on face converted to Islam.

This is one thing I am still to figure out. When Hazrat Ali was being born, why did his mother go inside the Kaaba instead of going to her home? If Allah directed her to go there, then why didn't Allah just make him the first Khalifa and make Mr. Mubarak happy?

9. Dawoodi Bohra Youth/Progressives considers book Daimul Islam written by Molana Kazi Noman (r.a.) as pristine and true book and as per that book Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) has sent Lanat on Sunni neta shri Abu Baker, shri Umar and shri Usman.

I have analysed this book. This book was written by Kazi Noman under direction from the then Imam to simply glorify these Imams. This book has no basis on the sunnah of the prophet.

All the Prophets including Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was appointed by Allah. And their successors were appointed by those Prophets.

Well, this means that Hazrat Abu Bakr was appointed by the prophet (sa). The snatching is simply fiction created by the Shias.

express grief on the martyrdom of Imam Hussain with tears in their eyes and heart.

No one can see what is inside the heart except Allah. Allah says in the quran not to grieve for those that have died in the path of Allah. Sunnis do not consider Yazid to be their neta. This fiction is again created by the Shias to keep the divide amongst the ummah. Thankfully, majority of ummah doesn't give this a second thought.

[Hussain_KSA]

Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem before reading the Sura Fateha

There are different opinions about this. According to some schools of thought Bismillah was revealed as a part of the quran at the beginning of every ayah. They recite it at the beginning of every Surah. Some schools have a different opinion and do not believe that it was revealed at the beginning of every surah and hence they do not recite it. There is no hadith from the prophet that Bismillah has to be recited before every surah in the salaah. As far as I know, neither has Hazrat Ali given any such direction.

Word “Aameen” is not the part of Sura Fateha

Brother Anajmi is right.

Maliki and Shafei Masalik (School of thoghts) mostly in Egypt, Syria, Lebonan, Yeman, Iraq, Morroco, Algeria are reading Bismillah loudly before sura Fateha in prayers while Hanbali Maslak (in Saudi Arabia and GCC) reading bismillah (not loudly) but Hanbaly says Ameen loudly while Hanafi (india and south Asia) beside Maliki says Ameen in their hearts.

So discussion of Bismillah and Ameen is just matter of school of thoughts and nothing else.

I will give an example like shia must do Tawaf e Nisa even to complete their Umra while Bohras do it only duirng Haj . Sunni has nothing to do with Tawaf e Nisa.

[aftabm]

It was a real crap, but we must applaud him for such a wild imagination, if not anything else.