Unanswered questions

[Aarif]

History has produced many a great examples displaying struggle between good and evil. Jesus Christ was killed by the powerful and evil people who were afraid of his truthful existence. When he was crucified no one dared to come forward to save him because the people who crucified him were extremely powerful. He died an extremely painful death. Similarly Imam Husain died an extremely painful death at the hands of Yazid, the powerful and cruel king. If one observes carefully, there are many such examples in history where truth and justice was brutally crushed by the evil forces. These examples tells us that most of the times in human history power rested in cruel hands. Hands that would kill and punish the innocent for achieving their selfish motives. Hands that would snatch away from the unfortunate instead of giving. Hands that would misuse instead of using their power. If we look at our community, the evil kothar and Syedna has all the power and money. They exploit the innocent and weak just like their cruel predecessors. Because they are powerful no one dares to go against them. Reformists who want to bring about positive changes in the community are punished and crushed with all the might. However, lakhs of people follow and worship Syedna. The million dollor question that arises is why are the corrupt and cruel always so powerful??? Why the rightous and honest so weak??? Why truth and justice always suffers and why injustice and cruelty always triumphs??? It is so difficult to find meaningful answers to these questions...

[ozmujaheed]

Aarif my comment to your thread ,

It is easy to look at history and conclude that Yazid was cruel and killed Imam Hussain and point a finger at people of Basra and Karbala who betrayed him. Note that Imam Husains Shias were a minority and was overun by the Yazid's army and only after his death did mankind realise that they sided the wrong person and consequently Shiaism is what it is today.

More from an angle of specultation if Husain had remained in Madinah to live to old age it is not easy to predict whether the level (lower or higher) of influence on Islam he would have or how he would have overcome Yazid, and if Shiaism would be different or as many or more than what we experience today.

I recognise that the Shia and Ismiali school of thought belives that Husain was destined for Shahadat at the hands of Yazids army which means Shiaism was destined to be what it is today and similarly Ismailis would end up becoming a remnant of the glorious Fatemid dynasty.

Further it is much harder to live in the era and take the side of the few hundreds like the progressives and give the benfit of doubt that Progressives may be right path. Only few cases in history like Moses, Muhammad SAW, Gandhi, Mandela and recently Obama were successful in convincing the masses in their lifetime to rebel against the status quo.

However I hope history will acknowldge PDW sacrifices that people like you stood up to tyranny and oppression or as I previously stated Progressives need a charismatic influential leader who can run a revolution ...Progressives weakness is they do not have a strong leader and that lead by consensus will only create opposition but no outcome.

[Al Zulfiqar]

The million dollor question that arises is why are the corrupt and cruel always so powerful??? Why the rightous and honest so weak??? Why truth and justice always suffers and why injustice and cruelty always triumphs??? It is so difficult to find meaningful answers to these questions...

arif,

you need to ask the question in a different way and you will get an automatic reply...!

q. why are the powerful almost always so corrupt and cruel?

a. to maintain their power and to get more money, because money brings more power, influence and increased domination. you cannot be in absolute power without being corrupt, ruthless and devious. a legitimate, kind, just and benevolent leader does not need to become a cruel tyrant in order to gain power, the hearts and minds of his followers are his real power. eg. mahatma gandhi.

leaders like the syedna need to exercise their power by being devious, ruthless and corrupt to subjugate the community and buy influence and support to further his nefarious agenda. he speaks lies to conjure up false miracles and indulges in pomp and show to brainwash his followers and misguide them in their faith.

a keen student of history can quote thousands of examples of such corrupt and cruel tyrants who ruled with an iron fist and blazed across the firmament, but only briefly. eventually their evil reign ended when the people rose up in revolt and crushed their entire dynasties at one blow.

the righteous and honest will always resist taking the same path as the goondas in their fight. that may be construed as weakness, but in reality is not. i have personally seen in my life that what strikes the greatest fear in the heart of goondas is not physical violence or threats, but moral strength of their adversary, because that is something they dont know how to fight and is the hardest to defeat.

hope that answers your questions.

[Aarif]

Ozmujaheed,

Thanks for your reply. However, I feel that you missed the point that I was trying to make. I am really not interested in any Shia/Sunni debate to start with. My main question is "Why power always rests in the hands of cruel ?". Maybe I chose wrong examples. But if you look back in history at other examples (I mean not the prophets or Imams) you will realize that mankind has suffered tremendous misery, slavery, hunger etc. due to the greed of few cruel people who controlled them. Some used religion while others used diplomacy and politics to meet their selfish goals. This is not the question of leadership either.. If you will recollect history two world wars were fought. These wars were started by a handful of greedy people who wanted more power and control over the world. Even today the powerful are equally cruel and greedy. Don't you think Iraq, Palestine and Afganistan is the outcome of this greed and cruelty.

[Aarif]

Br. AZ,

Gud one as usual.

a keen student of history can quote thousands of examples of such corrupt and cruel tyrants who ruled with an iron fist and blazed across the firmament, but only briefly. eventually their evil reign ended when the people rose up in revolt and crushed their entire dynasties at one blow.

However, you will realize that when one tyrant leaves another one replaces him. When one dynasty ends another one begins. From eternity to this day mankind is suffering. There have been many revolutions and revolts in the past but things have not changed much. Even today we have the exploiters and the exploited. The equation is pretty much the same. The surprising element is even after thousands of years of history nothing has changed...

[Al Zulfiqar]

bro. arif,

human history is a saga of a constant battle of power and politics. when it comes to purely temporal power, the west evolved a workable model of democracy, not perfect nor devoid of corruption, but atleast one where the people do have the power of making corrupt govts and leaders accountable. this was won after many centuries of struggle and of course, having an educated and aware public.

but where we have a unique combination of power and religion, esp. in an obscure sect like ours, it becomes extremely difficult to counter it by simple resistance when the criminals hide behind a false cover of divine sanction, and that divine sanction is one which we buy into because of our unflinching faith!!

so now you see the dilemma we have. this example is similar to the days when the pope was more powerful than the emperors of europe and sold favours and the church amassed great wealth and influence. finally it resulted in the greatest schism of christianity, the emergence of martin luther and protestanism. that did not happen without violence and tremendous turmoil.

what humanity needs is not just a constant system of aggressive vigilance on the political and temporal side, but also to progress to devising a similar system for religions also. in the west again, they hold religious leaders too accountable but mainly of christendom. whereas we have not yet accepted this, as we believe it to be an attack on our faith. muslims and hindus allow many of their religious leaders to go scot-free, afraid that bringing in man-made laws to correct religious institutions will somehow lead to a decline in their faith. that is a major hurdle and we have to, as a society, seperate religious faith from basic human rights and the laws of the land.

i personally do not foresee that the syedna and his family will give into reforms and surrender power so easily, unless the greater part of bohras wake up and start collectively resisting them in big numbers peacefully, or a sudden violent reaction will occur and small pockets of these will multiply everywhere leading to a larger conflagration. tyrants in history have never gone peacefully and have always had to be forcibly removed.

human civilisation will continue in this fashion until we evolve into one world, one humanity with a common goal and awareness and respect for our fellow men and our environment. you must read this book, 'The Celestine Prophecy' by James Redfield, which has created a huge sensation. The signs of us as a race getting more responsible and humane has already begun and although gradual, we will make every attempt to survive or we will all perish.

obviously the attempts of our corrupt leaders is to isolate us and prevent us from joining the larger river of humanity, for that will bring about our awareness and their doom! as this humanising force grows it will become so powerful that it is bound to sweep away all tyrants and relics of the past like our bohra leadership, into the garbage heap of history.

[Aarif]

human civilisation will continue in this fashion until we evolve into one world, one humanity with a common goal and awareness and respect for our fellow men and our environment.

Well said Br. AZ. I think this is exactly what we need though not sure whether we will ever have it.

[Smart]

Bro. Aarif
Don't lose heart. Uptil now the priestly class had unfettered control over Bohras because they were able to control the medium of information which most Bohras had access to. They had their Nasim e Sahars and Badre Munirs, and banned Mumbai Samachar, which was enforceable.

Now the situation is changing and fast. If you search for dawoodi bohra sites on google, this website comes third / fourth in popularity after say malumaat and wikipedia. It is an indication that it is amongst the most popular sites on the internet and can be seen and read in privacy without the Big Brothers in Kothar getting any inkling of this action.

This means that the younger generation are reading, analysing and understanding the issues involved. They are thus less brainwashed. Let us keep up our morale and keep up the good work of this website and maybe help the admin enhance its capabilities.

Sooner, rather than later, the numbers will reach a critical mass and the Marie Antoinettes of the Kothar will get their dues (guillotine).

[Aarif]

Sooner, rather than later, the numbers will reach a critical mass and the Marie Antoinettes of the Kothar will get their dues (guillotine).

Br. Smart,

I hope what you are saying comes true soon...

[Al Zulfiqar]

meanwhile they are having their dal-chawal-palidu with gosh, papad/bhartu and eating it too...

[Smart]

Bro AZ,
Even Marie Anoinette was having cakes, before being beheaded. No tyranny has lasted forever.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Aarif,

It is necessary for every heedful eye to learn a lesson from the calamities and disasters occurring in the lives of individuals and nations. To call them a turn of events or merely an accident and move on can prove harmful.

Allah Ta'ala says: "And verily we will make them taste of the near torment (in this world) prior to the supreme torment (in the Hereafter) in order that they may return (repent)." (As-Sajdah: 21)

"Was there any town that believed and its faith saved it (from the punishment) except the people of Yunus; when they believed we removed from them the torment of disgrace in the life of the world and permitted them to enjoy for a while (more)." (Yunus:98)

Consequently, faith in and obedience to Allah Ta'ala is the only way to success.

[Aqa Moula_Zindabad]

meanwhile they are having their dal-chawal-palidu with gosh, papad/bhartu and eating it too...

and u are very well a part of it and u hav it sitting in Amils Thaal.......one term which suits u is "THAALI KA BAINGAN"

[East Africawalla]

Until the progressives have a acceptable and substancial arguments and a charismatic leader , the rhetoric by AZ and co will just put off people getting interested in your cause,

What have you got to offer ? look around you, most of the children has lost their identity, you are slowly also losing your culture , you are also moving away from your Bohra religion , where are you heading ?

Why would a mainstream Bohra join your cause when he is happy where he is, his children are culturally in due to madressas and freinds in the mosque, most of their freinds socially they meet at the mosque, they are getting about 100 4 course meal a year.

Do you think this vepari com will live that to join a few renegades?

[ozmujaheed]

EAW welcome back and a bit of dark humour ! EAW rarely but I agree...seems your absence was worth it your new postings are logical and acceptable. Maybe you have stayed too long away from Orthodox while you were away and may be a Misaq is overdue for you to go back to previous version...

Awa jordar jawab mumineen apse to munafikin logo marajewa soo sawal karse ! I miss the die hard Orthos for a good debate and AMZ is too green ! I hope we have converted the remaining into Munafikin rather than scaring them away from the site as they are advised that "awi badhi kharab website ane guna si bachjo"

[Hussain_KSA]

What have you got to offer ? look around you, most of the children has lost their identity, you are slowly also losing your culture , you are also moving away from your Bohra religion , where are you heading ?

Moving away from Bohra religion? Do you think the present innovations are bohra religion? We are just trying to restore Bohra religion.
Looting, harassing, forcing, braat and just purjosh Maatam, Ghanu Jivo, STD is not Bohra religion.

For sure we are not heading to hell as we are not indulging ourselve in SHIRK.

[East Africawalla]

Husainbhai, I understand your argument that we are not following the religion to what is the ideal but than argue that with million Bohras who think that this is the correct way of Bohraism.

You are talking of 50+ years of indocrination of people minds, I am sorry you cannot change that easily, thats why its better you work from inside than outside to have a genuine argument.

I was away on sabatical